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Messages - K2-K6
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5221
« on: July 13, 2010, 10:13:56 PM »
Pete, this is really good to see the build and that you've logged it so well for all of us to see.
Some observations that may help others, When cleaning threads in castings it's often easier to make a tool out of an allen bolt as a good quality black one is effectively forged and has a much higher torque capacity than a tap which is brittle. Particularly if you get any blast grit in the hole, the tap snags on this and will not cut it so bingo / snapped before you know it. If any interest I can post a method in tips maybe.
If a hardened tap is really stuck and inaccessible, if you can find anybody to do it then spark erosion can desolve it, (you'd normally have to be stripped down to a bare casting though as it has to be immersed in turps to carry out.
I bought a genuine snap-on six sided socket for the valve adjust caps years ago and it's never rounded any caps off, some people do these up as if they were going to lift the bike up by them not just to keep the oil in.
Same for the oil filter bolt, Honda put a small head on that one so you can't over torque it. It just needs doing up until the o-ring is squashed and you can feel that by gently twisting the housing left to right as you tighten until you feel the housing just contact the cases, Done.
It'll be good to see the F2 when It's running.
5222
« on: July 13, 2010, 09:39:26 PM »
Usually nod to on-coming bikes, raise fingers / hand if I pass them.
Raise fingers / hand to cars that move over to give me space on passing or Q filtering
Always try to help if someone has a prob and alone even if in car.
Had a puncture middle of nowhere on the K2 years ago, some BMW riders stopped then one went home and got me a spare rear tube, some levers and a pump, couldn't have been more helpful. Made me realise how welcome a hand is when you're stuck.
5223
« on: July 12, 2010, 10:46:02 PM »
The ali bore before it gets to the seal groove is exposed to salt etc and usually corodes enough to go tight on the piston.
Can always push in with thumbs if operating correctly.
If you spray WD40 or similar around this and then move in / out it usaually gets easier, if so you've still got to take piston out and clean properly.
The groove and piston seal are sized (square in section) so that when you stop pulling the lever then the seal has the effect of withdrawing the piston slightly to stop the brake rubbing and building up heat when not applied.
After reasembly I put copper slip round this point to keep it cleaner in use. Cars and many later bikes have a much better crud seal on this area as I'm sure you're aware.
5224
« on: July 12, 2010, 10:31:55 PM »
I'll bet you'll be glad when you get it fixed.
When it stops is it really roasting hot or more normal range? as dropping the neadles will make it hotter ordinarily.
5225
« on: July 12, 2010, 09:13:46 PM »
Oooooh! looks like nothing is sealing that should. Haven't got anything available to measure to help with o-rings currently.
You could try taking off gasket and leaving o-rings in place then slide head back on and feeler gauge the gap to see if they are going to be compressed or not to give you an estimate. They'd obviously have to exceed the gasket thickness to do anything.
Not worth wasting a 65 quid gasket until you can get some sort of answer on the o's i guess. have you got the old o-rings? They are usually compressed when they come out so i'd estimate at .5mm plus gasket thickness to be effective.
What is the counterbore depth where the o-rings go?
BTW yoshi823 I like that frame mod of your ex F2 very neat piece of work.
5226
« on: July 12, 2010, 07:51:45 PM »
As Bryan said the originals had a coating that looked shiny and had a feel that was rubbery/tacky to the touch around critical areas, I guess with a really clinical degrease this should work and I can never recall a factory built motor leaking in normal circumstances.
I'd be VERY careful about taking a skim if you can avoid it. This changes (albeit mildly) cam timing, compression, valve to piston clearance etc and may require special base gasket to regain correct dimensions.
In my experience these are very stable castings and unless they've been butchered then normally remain stable and flat. I'd have a careful check initially with a good quality steel rule to see if you can spot any thing other than flat and consider from there.
They are not easy to skim as you have steel liners in ally for the barrels so getting a clean cut takes someone who knows what they are doing, plus the head i think has to sit up on spacers to mount flat (avoiding protruding valve guides) this is quite different to car components and may present you with some problems and potentially scrap the castings.
I'd say the hylomar route was much less risky. Our reasoning behind this was that they leaked at the point they do because of a non-adhearance of the gasket to the surface (you can usually lift the gasket straight of fwith no visible residue and see the oil path during strip down) so if you can get it to adhere with on spec gasket / degrease then great.
When you take them apart from original assembly those sticky areas usually showed sign of the gasket tearing with a thin part of the surface remaining on the casting, confirming to me that Honda required them to be physically bonded hence the gasket treatment.
It'll be interesting to see what you find, it's just fiddly wiggling the motor out without scratching any part of the frame!
5227
« on: July 11, 2010, 07:55:02 PM »
Hi
Had a chat with pete about this at the ace cafe 70's day last month. I've only ever had total sucess with this by using blue hylomar very sparingly (you never want ANY loose sealant to get into oil ways) worked on them quite a lot in 70's and 80's and always used this method. Clean surfaces completely, no old gasket trace at all, use isopropanol alcolhol for final clean, was easier to coat gasket both sides rather than casting, standard studs / torque + pattern etc. Friend has an original 750 F2 and is the most particular person that I know and I must of helped him lift that engine out about six times and put it back again as he insisted on doing exactly as the manual said i.e. no sealant, eventually persuaded him to go with hylomar and it didn't leak. These were all Honda original gaskets (one of the pull out's was to do valve guides as well as leak).
As you know it's a bit of a pain on these as it's motor out each time, all the notes about other leak points are also relevant.
I believe that if you use stronger studs you have the "potential" to distort main bearing area as Honda must have designed it to accept the loadings it required.
I would take a guess that the surfaces were absolutely degreased on factory assembly so this may be a reason why they can work dry with original gaskets so worth considering
5228
« on: July 08, 2010, 10:54:33 AM »
I'd put a chain through front wheel to frame and same for rear as it just makes it much harder to lift one end and wheel it out of sight to work on/put in a van. They are not worth much to sell on I guess but broken up could provide enough cash to incentivise someone to have a go.
5229
« on: July 07, 2010, 06:34:58 PM »
I've seen quite a few things run with "curious" cam timing both car and bike and it can be used as a method of changing power curve particularly on twin cam in which it alters the valve overlap period but you'd really have to have good reason and knowledge to vary from stock.
It'll be interesting to see if yours is correct or not, but if not i'd guess at cam timed early as being slightly late I would have thought it would give a bit of a screamer with poor starting.
If you don't find anything we'll have to think harder!
Cheers.
5230
« on: July 06, 2010, 08:00:37 PM »
Hi
Was it going when you got it / have you seen it run correctly?
If not it might be wise to check cam timing, think you can remove cam cover in frame on this one.
To check fuel flow fully you need to remove a float bowl (go for furthest from supply pipe) and turn tap on, it should flow reasonably fast into this say an egg cup ish in 5secs (is an egg cup an official scale in bike mechanics!!).
Looks like you've checked carbs quite well and if two sets of ignition give the same results that seems to get them off the hook.
Seems like you've got a few of us scratching our heads on this one so hopefully somone can come up with a reason for it.
5231
« on: July 05, 2010, 08:33:54 PM »
Hi Anoyone checked the air filter? just run it with it out for a test to see effect (had a filter do this on another Honda and I could not beleive the effect was so defined, took me ages to sort). Not sure of the intake on the 550 but friend had 400/4 and put overtrousers over air box intake under seat and caused similar probs once. It'll be interesting to find out what it is, shame we can't get you more help.
Have you done a plug inspection on all cylinders when it's running hot to give you an idea of mixture?
What is the psi reading for compressions on each cylinder?
If you start it from cold, run for 30secs, switch off and touch the header pipes to see if all are similar temp tells you if they are all firing straightaway.
Check through the fuel tap to make sure there is no blockage in any passageway
BTW fuel always comes from the bottom of the tank when on reserve!! I've always run everything I've owned bike/car to as near empty as I can (what's the point having range if you don't use it) and never ever used additional filters. My theory is you might as well run anything that could be a problem out so it will never accumilate things you don't want in there. On that note, if you don't use it down to the bottom do you have a tank cleaning schedule? to get out the mythical junk.
5232
« on: July 04, 2010, 09:49:11 PM »
Hi I like these kinds of discussion as it turns up some good valid experience for others to use. My intention was to give a logical path to allow a realistic assesment to take place, having done that you'd have to change direction if you found that they where of no use.
Some of the issues need separating out I feel.
The initial process of a bit of light mileage is just to serve the purpose of getting the pads to match the disc surface in a mechanical sense.
The heat cycle part has a different aim in that it should drive out resins / chemical component from the manufacturing process (I know this is possibly not applicable for all specs, but shouldn't hurt) as it is these products that I understand cause glazing at which point the pads will feel as if they are made of mahogany!! and won't improve by further lever pressure.
Fading results from an inability to generate friction when the braking system has gone over temperature and is really scary from high speed, but glazed pads will produce this affect even if they have the ability to operate at a higher temp (the glazing simply stops enough friction builing up)
Older disc material would have been specced? when pads had asbestos as a principal part, so some experimentation with modern pads will be inevitable.
Enduro / MX kit will inevitably be used in high abrasive environments so will have a considerably different characteristic to essentially much cleaner running road use stuff.
Agree with Ferodo products, always good.
5233
« on: July 02, 2010, 10:42:06 PM »
Hi Never heard of them and no direct experience of this make but you could do a reasonable assesment of them to make up your own mind as to suitability, this is what I would do to figure it out:- Change all pads on one wheel, have a quick light duty run out and inspect pads while still fitted to assure no obvious mechanical failure, if ok then complete approx 50/75 miles of light use to get the pad surfaces to match disc surface/alignment, then complete a heat cycle in which you get them stinking hot (dragging them continuosly) then don't stop the bike but ride for a while with very low brake application to allow a cool down of whole brake system, then you are done. If all satisfactory take the pads out to give a good surface inspection (should look like smooth coal, very little cracking, no edge break-up, no obvious shiny resin effect) but replace in the exactly the same location to maintain the disc contact you've just worked to get right. IF ALL IS OK use them as normal but just look them over with a torch initially to allow you to spot any change and check them out with a few heavy applications to check for fade.
This sort of proceedure should really be used to prep any high demand pads to get any brand to best performance level as if you do really need them and don't know their effectiveness then it could all get a bit scary.
Any comment from others?
5234
« on: June 29, 2010, 10:15:12 PM »
I bought a K2 N-reg 1975 model in 1977 and it was exactly as the above picture for colour and graphics. The large black panel is either USA (not sure of year) or UK K6 as far as I've seen. Welcome to the site it seems to have some good discussions, I've just joined this month.
5235
« on: June 22, 2010, 10:55:36 PM »
This may explain it, I thought that "stale" petrol was a load of rubbish but read a really good explanation about it recently and it went something along these lines:- the aromatic part that you can smell when filling up is very volatile to aid starting etc and the base fuel that gives a lot of the energy to make power is much more resistant to firing and more stable during combustion hence a blend of the various components to give a complete fuel. When it's kept for long an an aerated container the good volatile starting component simply evaporates but if your engine was hot it should have little trouble and probably wouldn't again if you could get it running. So I doubt if any damage but just empty it and put fresh/new in to get back to where you were. The fact that the plugs are getting wet shows it's getting in there but the plugs fail to ignite it. The old fuel usually has a much heavier smell to it, more toward diesel.
Hope this helps to explain it (someone has already suggested new fuel)
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