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SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: masonmart on December 18, 2018, 10:18:26 PM

Title: 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on December 18, 2018, 10:18:26 PM
I bought a project bike  to keep me busy in retirement but, as a complete numpty, I bought the worst possible bike to restore, a big bore 605cc engine in a Dresda lightweight frame which had obviously been binned with damaged casings, bent forks, etc. A completely non-standard bike with mainly no parts available. I had wonderful help from Dave and Russell at Dresda but I abandoned it once the cost had flown past £8k, accelerating and with no end in sight. At that time it looked good but I'd rebuilt the engine and there were things I wasn't sure I'd done OK. I couldn't get the right shell bearing sizes and this may have caused the engine to be hard to turn over, the clutch rod had snapped and it was hard to operate which I think was just heavy springs. I may have also put the wrong O-ring seals on the cylinder studs on the basis that they were all that was left in the kit rather than the correct ones. I've decided to try to finish it now with help from Dresda on the basis of the challenge and that it could also be a tasty bike in the end and pretty special.

The bike has inherent worth in parts especially the Dresda frame, big bore engine, beautiful wheels, new clocks, etc., that is cut my losses and get as much value as I can from the bits at a loss of maybe £4k The other options are to keep on going as a project and get it good which means the current £8k plus maybe £2k to finish it and then what? The other option is to just have it as a permanent project and get nothing back from it. Would appreciate any thoughts on this.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Bryanj on December 18, 2018, 10:42:41 PM
As they say on mastermind "youve started so you should finish" no project ever returns what it cost so you might as well enjoy it
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Moorey on December 18, 2018, 10:54:07 PM
Onwards at the very least you will have something special at the end. Most projects tend to cost far more than is first thought.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 18, 2018, 11:23:59 PM
You need to make sure the engine is built correctly and fit for purpose if you decide to carry on. What else would you do with your days........I would see it through to the bitter end.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Johnwebley on December 18, 2018, 11:24:58 PM
We mostly do this for fun.
We know the cost can be horrific. My little 125 YAM cost over  £4k.
So carry on.
When restoring old bikes.the best way to become a millionaire.


Is start with  2 million. And you will soon be down to one

Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on December 19, 2018, 12:23:43 AM
Thanks guys, I realise there is only one answer.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 19, 2018, 11:07:54 AM
I built my Triton at Dave's workshop back in the early noughties. It was by far the most expensive bike I have ever built at over £10k. Original estimate was £5.5k but of course the costs just spiral as you have found out and especially when it comes to engine work. When you start a restoration or a build you look at things on the bike prior to striping it down and think 'that will do, it's OK to keep'  but when you have fitted all the new bling the old bits look awful so you buy new to keep the standard up! I built my Triton over three years so at least I was able to spread the cost.
Like most people on here though, we restore and build bikes for the love of doing it and the pride in bringing an old clunker back to life. I've never met anyone who has restored a bike and made any money from doing it (unless it was a Brough, Vincent etc). Now I'm retired I would be bored brainless if I hadn't built my garage to restore bikes and to indulge in my real passion whilst listening to music..... absolute bliss 😊👍.
My advice would be to finish your build and enjoy doing it. Don't think of it as a money pit, you already know it is and you can't go backwards. If you sell it now you'll kick yourself every time you see a restored bike. Dave is a great guy and full of knowledge but keep a lid on the spending.
To quote Winston Churchill, When you think you are going through hell, keep going ✌️.
Good luck and please post some pictures of how it is now and future progress.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Bryanj on December 19, 2018, 11:48:57 AM
I know Horsham is a trek to Gloucester but i would happily redo your engine for just the cost of any bits used as i have done more of these engines than i care to remember.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Moorey on December 19, 2018, 02:17:32 PM
I know Horsham is a trek to Gloucester but i would happily redo your engine for just the cost of any bits used as i have done more of these engines than i care to remember.

Offers certainly don't come any better than that.  :) :)
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 19, 2018, 02:57:47 PM
I know Horsham is a trek to Gloucester but i would happily redo your engine for just the cost of any bits used as i have done more of these engines than i care to remember.
Blimey, what a lovely offer and gesture Bryan......Stay where you are Bryan, I'm loading the big box trailer up now with all the engines we have here that need building for customers, i will supply all the parts too 😀😀😀😀
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: matthewmosse on December 19, 2018, 03:07:50 PM
A few ways to go with restorations, one is to bring it right the way to good as new in every detail, I try to keep bikes ( or any other bit of machinery, I've done more lathes than bikes recently ) broadly original and keep the aged look. I vastly prefer the second approach. It gives you an every day useable result and I can actually afford it. In their day my 500/4s and other machines have been about the hardest worked examples of their marque I could find examples of, and boy was it fun, the cb500/4 commuted through 6 inches of snow on the deck, several winters on the Trott, our series 2 landrover ran haybalers and tedders off the rear PTO, got into the landrover magazine on 2 counts, rear pro use very rare, and the engine was about the only regular use example known to the club at that time. No way would I have used a restored example like that on either count. Same with my lathes, everything gets cleaned and oiled, checked and fixed, but the paint is touched up and allowed to mellow back to old looking patina, those old machines attract as much attention at our local classic machinery rally as the fully restored exhibits, even if they feature as non exhibits in the car park.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Bryanj on December 19, 2018, 03:48:04 PM
Julie, as long as they are 500/550 and going into Dresda frames no problem but you have to just nip into Coningsby and borrow me a Merlin27 to play with as well!!!
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 19, 2018, 03:56:34 PM
Julie, as long as they are 500/550 and going into Dresda frames no problem but you have to just nip into Coningsby and borrow me a Merlin27 to play with as well!!!
Oh poo, nothing here from a Dresda frame !!!. Anything with a Merlin in it is all tucked up warm, dry and safe for the winter in the hangers Bryan. Plenty of Typhoons etc flying around until tomorrow, then no flying from Coningsby, except for the QRA (quick reaction alerts) till well in to the New Year as all on Holidays.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Bryanj on December 19, 2018, 03:59:19 PM
Masonmart, there are several things that are a normal must fit to an old 500 and with the 605 probably even more important and i dont know if you did. E.G.  primary chain c/w damper rubbers; cam chain and possibly tensioner+cushion; crank seals(others can be done without spliting cases) etc etc. But as i have owned several even twindiscing one in 76 and have at least 6ish in project form to include no 36 again one more engine is an easy add on mate.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on December 20, 2018, 11:07:23 AM
I built my Triton at Dave's workshop back in the early noughties. It was by far the most expensive bike I have ever built at over £10k. Original estimate was £5.5k but of course the costs just spiral as you have found out and especially when it comes to engine work. When you start a restoration or a build you look at things on the bike prior to striping it down and think 'that will do, it's OK to keep'  but when you have fitted all the new bling the old bits look awful so you buy new to keep the standard up! I built my Triton over three years so at least I was able to spread the cost.
Like most people on here though, we restore and build bikes for the love of doing it and the pride in bringing an old clunker back to life. I've never met anyone who has restored a bike and made any money from doing it (unless it was a Brough, Vincent etc). Now I'm retired I would be bored brainless if I hadn't built my garage to restore bikes and to indulge in my real passion whilst listening to music..... absolute bliss 😊👍.
My advice would be to finish your build and enjoy doing it. Don't think of it as a money pit, you already know it is and you can't go backwards. If you sell it now you'll kick yourself every time you see a restored bike. Dave is a great guy and full of knowledge but keep a lid on the spending.
To quote Winston Churchill, When you think you are going through hell, keep going ✌️.
Good luck and please post some pictures of how it is now and future progress.

You're right of course and thanks for the positivity. This is a picture of where I'd got to before stopping. The rear shocks aren't the final ones.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on December 20, 2018, 11:33:56 AM
I know Horsham is a trek to Gloucester but i would happily redo your engine for just the cost of any bits used as i have done more of these engines than i care to remember.

That is a very nice offer and one which I may take you up on but I always pay my way. The bike had been kept outside for 40 years some of which were out on the docks in Spain where it was impounded. It was covered in concrete where DD had built an extension next to it and the crank cases had been damaged from a crash and badly repaired. I did a strip down and assembly replacing anything that needed to be. First time I'd ever done this type of job and I very much doubted my ability  to do it properly. It may be OK as it does everything that it should but I just worry that I did something wrong especially it being hard to turn over with a spanner on the crank. I couldn't get the right match of shell colours and they may be tight

What I will do is finish the bike and then see if it'll run. If not then I'll take the engine out and perhaps get the help of somebody like yourself to sort it. To get the engine out you have to lay the bike on its side, remove the engine bolts and lift the frame off the engine so it's an adventure.

Tbh it would be very good to finish it, it'd be pretty special (I've never seen one before) and think of the satisfaction (and poverty).

I've been doing some part time work in Gloucester for the last year (In the business park) and know the route from Horsham well.

Best wishes.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on December 20, 2018, 11:39:30 AM
A few ways to go with restorations, one is to bring it right the way to good as new in every detail, I try to keep bikes ( or any other bit of machinery, I've done more lathes than bikes recently ) broadly original and keep the aged look. I vastly prefer the second approach. It gives you an every day useable result and I can actually afford it. In their day my 500/4s and other machines have been about the hardest worked examples of their marque I could find examples of, and boy was it fun, the cb500/4 commuted through 6 inches of snow on the deck, several winters on the Trott, our series 2 landrover ran haybalers and tedders off the rear PTO, got into the landrover magazine on 2 counts, rear pro use very rare, and the engine was about the only regular use example known to the club at that time. No way would I have used a restored example like that on either count. Same with my lathes, everything gets cleaned and oiled, checked and fixed, but the paint is touched up and allowed to mellow back to old looking patina, those old machines attract as much attention at our local classic machinery rally as the fully restored exhibits, even if they feature as non exhibits in the car park.

I agree Matthew and it's my general approach too. I have a 1966 CB77 that I did a lot of engine work on but apart from respraying the tank (paint was lifting) it stayed in original trim. It was very good anyway but you can tell it's a 50 year old bike.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Bryanj on December 20, 2018, 01:50:46 PM
I have before now built the 500's with all the tightest shells and they have been OK so if it is tight to turn i would suspect a problem. If you remove the head and barrells the bottom end is easy to lift and saves lying the frame down. Perhaps some used cases might be in order?

If you came up on a prearranged day early you may be able to take it back with you same day. I am not far from jun  12 M5 so one junction farther south than business park
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on December 20, 2018, 04:17:38 PM
I have before now built the 500's with all the tightest shells and they have been OK so if it is tight to turn i would suspect a problem. If you remove the head and barrells the bottom end is easy to lift and saves lying the frame down. Perhaps some used cases might be in order?

If you came up on a prearranged day early you may be able to take it back with you same day. I am not far from jun  12 M5 so one junction farther south than business park

Many thanks, will keep in touch.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on February 08, 2019, 04:59:19 PM
I've been away for a month or so in Asia and in the meantime Russell from Dresda has replaced the standard electrics with modern electronic gear and wired the bike up which I couldn't have done well. So, it's basically complete with the exception of possibly some decals on the tank and seat or possibly a paint job. What looks good for me are the alloy wheels and the coating of the engine and pipes. The original silencer has come up well considering the rotten state it was in. I put bars on with a slight rise as I can't ride with clip ons any more, ideally it should have fairing and clip ons but it has potential as it is, possibly straight bars would look nice? It's my first restore job and if I were to do it again I'd do it much better but I see a nice useable bike which, with the 605cc engine, should go well and with the Dresda lightweight frame be quite unique.

The real plus though is that the motor turns over well on the starter and sparks well and the clutch, while heavy, is no worse than a lot of 60's British bikes.

Worth it? No as the bike is so non-standard but maybe a standard bike next. Long way to go on this though probably.

Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: andy120t on February 09, 2019, 07:54:40 AM
Looks really nice. I like the black indicators - where are they from?
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: Laverda Dave on February 09, 2019, 11:19:58 AM
Looking good👍. More pics please so we can see it in all its glory.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on February 09, 2019, 01:41:05 PM
Looks really nice. I like the black indicators - where are they from?

From a catalogue at DD's. I'll find a ref when I go up Monday.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on February 09, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
Looking good👍. More pics please so we can see it in all its glory.

It's leaned against a bike now and surrounded by other bikes so I couldn't get it out again or get a decent shot at it. As soon as I can I'll post a couple more pics.
Title: Re: My 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on February 22, 2019, 06:53:59 PM
My first big worry about engine tightness is OK as it turned over well on the battery. Sparked well but on filling with oil it leaked from incorrect gasket on RH cover so I didn't continue. I believe that it'll run next week when I can get a new gasket, fill it with oil and DD has the use of a rolling road for a week to run and test some amazing Tritons he's working on. I think I'm almost there but my guess is that it'll be a lifetime project. I'll use it as it is for a bit and improve it organically but long term I'd like to put a fairing and clip-ons on and perhaps paint it in the colours that the Dresda CR750's are done in. I'm looking forward to seeing how a 605cc motor runs.
Title: Re: 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on April 12, 2019, 12:33:08 PM
It is running, there is a god after all.
Title: Re: 500 lives again
Post by: paul G on April 12, 2019, 03:05:43 PM
It is running, there is a god after all.
Always a great moment  ;D
Title: Re: 500 lives again
Post by: Laverda Dave on April 13, 2019, 10:44:37 AM
Good news. Some pics would be good.
Is Dave still building Triton's, I thought he retired from building complete bikes when he moved down to Rusper? He attends Kempton Park sometimes.
Title: Re: 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on April 13, 2019, 06:06:30 PM
Good news. Some pics would be good.
Is Dave still building Triton's, I thought he retired from building complete bikes when he moved down to Rusper? He attends Kempton Park sometimes.

L120, will try to post a couple of pictures, just have to remember how. Dave and Russell are still keeping themselves busy although orders for new built bikes are few and far between. They're both amazing characters of a disappearing type [attachimg=1]and am so glad I can call in and see them now and again. They have been amazing help to me but they're always getting me in trouble either buying or restoring lost causes.
Title: Re: 500 lives again
Post by: masonmart on April 14, 2019, 06:41:08 PM
The reason that the clutch was stiff and the push rod had been broken was because it had ridiculously stiff springs in the clutch.
Title: Re: 500 lives again
Post by: Trigger on April 14, 2019, 06:45:37 PM
The reason that the clutch was stiff and the push rod had been broken was because it had ridiculously stiff springs in the clutch.


Springs never break the push rods, the drive chain does  ;)
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