Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: gamma on February 02, 2021, 05:17:59 PM
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Just like to thank JamesH again for the fuel tank.👍
I’ve finally retired to Spain and am starting my project build. I actually did most of the work while working in the Middle East, then shipped it back in bits.
It’s been a long time since I fired tyres to a CB750😀
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Built it up to here so far. I’m going to have to make a decision about the sump on the tank, as I had already made my own battery tray.
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Blimey - that was a few years back? (you're welcome). So, where are you at with the build (a CR750 rep from memory?)
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Great work. Love your helper.
BTW.a warning. I retired several years ago. And have never been busier.
Is there still 7 days in a week?
Not 6 or 5 ?
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
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James provided my tank as well! If you fit a CR Rep oil tank in conjunction with CR Rep fuel tank, it pretty much limits battery box position - I had to put it under the seat and go for a small lithium battery (although I don't have a starter motor as I wanted the slimmer race alternator which does away with the starter gears). When I've stopped throwing money at the cb500k2 build, I'm going to fit Andy at Good Bits race alternator conversion to allow starter motor gears - then fit a more powerful lithium battery or be vary imaginative with where to fit a normal sized battery.
Heres my finished bike and if you need any guidance (based on my build anyway), let me know
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Excellent bike Phil. Mine won’t be as good, I’m sure. You are right John, I’ve been very busy already in retirement.
Yes, James it was going to be a CR replica, but as time went on and I saw those MotoGP pipes etc: I decided to make it more of a cafe racer..
I got 3 bikes from a scrap yard in Saudi, two F1’s and a K7. I’ve posted most of the work I’ve done on the American sohc site.
I’ve retired to Spain and will have difficulty getting it road legal.
The engine is 836, I sent the barrels to APE in the states for the rebore and to supply pistons and a webcam 63a.
I sent the head to Mike Rieck in the states too for porting etc: I had a friend who lived in the states, so he took the parts home in his luggage. I built the engine in Saudi and shipped it back.
I cut bits I didn’t want off of the frame and got it powder coated at Triple S coatings. I polished the wheel hubs and replaced bearings, bought alloy wheel rims off eBay and sent the wheels for lacing at Central Wheel co. I have fitted Bridgestone BT45 tyres. Tarozzi rear sets and clip-ones. I’ve made my own gauges holder and am going to use KOSO Tacho and speedo and a volt meter.
I’ve made my own wiring loom from scratch (I am not an electrician)😀
I had made my own battery tray before buying the fuel tank from James.
I don’t really want to shell out for a CR oil tank, so I’m considering my next move😀
The sump on the fuel tank clashes with the oil tank but I might modify the oil tank to gain clearance, or remove or modify the sump. And then shift the battery.
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More pics
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More pics. I am using the F1 frame with the K7 swinging arm and rear hub, as I wanted shoes at the back, not a disc. I had to get 10mm machined off of the sprocket side of the hub so that the sprockets will align.
I am also using a Suzuki GT750 rear brake cable
And converted the front to twin disc
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More pics
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I’ve taken a bit out of the oil tank, not sure if this will be ok?
What do you guys think?
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Beautiful work. Love how this is coming together. Tank looks fine to my eye - it's not highly pressurized and the oil line is more than likley to be below the area changed, so even if you had an issue with porosity on the braze line (which I doubt very much) you should be just fine. Keep the pics coming...
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Shouldn't be a problem as the tank isn't pressurised. Ordinarily exits to air else it would oppose the scavenge pump from returning the oil effectively, so no problem from that aspect.
Volume, probably be ok to just keep it at maximum on dipstick to make sure you don't compromise supply level. Unless you are using a oil cooler as that would give easy compensation volume wise.
Brazing, needs the heat just a little higher along with better fluxing to get good flow into fillet joint. Possibly some pin holes in it but you could test it by plugging holes and putting a little air in there, then hold underwater to check for bubbles.
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Thanks guys, it is above the oil level and thanks for the advice about the brazing, after I cleaned it up, I did get a leak or two that I had to chase😃. Getting it hotter and cleaner with more flux was the answer. I am using one of those small benzomatic propane and oxygen rigs.
Now I’ve got to completely redesign my battery tray and electrics, I’d already made one to go in the normal place with my home made wiring.
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I used muriatic acid in the oil tank to remove the rust. That worked ok, so I then used jenolite to try and stop flash rusting. It’s made a mess so I think I will look for an oil tank that’s not rusty inside and start from scratch.
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Moving on, after checking what jets etc: come fitted to the carbs and static balancing them, I installed them and started to make spigots, so that I can balance them with gauges
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I’m sorry, I’ve neglected to keep posting on this site, I’ve posted mostly on the US site, but I’ve realised that really I should be posting on here. I am retired to Spain.
I’ve been working on the wiring, and seat unit and fairing and front fork brace with mounting for the mudguard and fitted shocks from YSS.
I’ve had to make spacers for the shocks to align them correctly at the top mountings as I’m using a K7 swinging arm on an F1 frame.
I added a wood base for the seat unit and had to teach myself to use a MIG welder to make a mounting for the fairing. Drilled and tapped a hole each side near the headstock for the mounting which has a pin which locates in a groove that I filed on the front seam where the ptfe tape is sitting
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More pics of the current progress.
Fitted an x-ring 530 and had fun with the rivets.
Finally got power on without any smoke
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Great work, looking really good too - please keep posting
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Thats ace, well done and keep posting ;)
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Thanks guys 😃
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A very neat looking build you have there.
Be great to see pics when it's completed.👍👍👍
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Looks very nice - great work!
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Nice bit of polishing on the top yoke, like the finishing touches where the bolts used to fit.
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Thanks Guys.
I cut the bar mounts flush on the top yolk and then installed duralumin rivets.
I also made those little d-spacers for the clamps
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I built the battery box to fit an AGM 12v 12ah battery as originally I was not going to install the starter. However, when I realised that the kickstart would not clear the rear sets, I changed my plans and installed the starter and modified the home made wiring loom. I still opted for the lower amp hour battery, believing that you could install AGM batteries on their side, as the sulphuric acid is absorbed and held in the glass mat.
The battery came with a warning label 😬 So I removed it, filled the battery with acid, gave it an initial charge, and then fitted the permanent plug caps.
It is now in the bike and there are no leaks as of yet 🤞
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Curious as to why you didn't cut the frame and fit the kit which allows the cylinder head to be removed whilst in situ, you seem to be competent enough to tackle that little job.
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Nice to see a bit of skilled workmanship. ;)
No need to cut the frame or remove the engine when it has been built correctly
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I did consider this, and I did cut of bits that I didn’t need, like rear foot rest mounts, seat hinge, and air filter mountings etc: I think that the frame break kit is quite substantial and I didn’t want to compromise clearance for the rest of the installation like different tank etc: but I’ll probably live to regret it😂 When I need to do any work on the engine. I do have a spare frame though.
I wrote this before your post Trigger😂😂😂
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I built one a few years ago now, just from bits that was laying about. It rode and handled very well with the seat height dropped. One of those bikes that now regretted selling >>> http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,16659.msg140815.html#msg140815
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Very nice bike Trigger.
I’ve just read your project bike for £1000. Looks great too. Interestingly when I converted this build to twin disc, I also removed material from the RH lower fork leg caliper mounting point.
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Very nice bike Trigger.
I’ve just read your project bike for £1000. Looks great too. Interestingly when I converted this build to twin disc, I also removed material from the RH lower fork leg caliper mounting point.
It was the first time that i did a double disc and it was not just bolt the caliper arm on :o
It is annoying that i had two squeaking disc's in stead of just one. The left hand side has now stopped squawking but, still a little squeak from the right side, if it carries on i will remove the second disc as, i preferer to brake in quite ;)
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Very nice bike Trigger.
I’ve just read your project bike for £1000. Looks great too. Interestingly when I converted this build to twin disc, I also removed material from the RH lower fork leg caliper mounting point.
It was the first time that i did a double disc and it was not just bolt the caliper arm on :o
It is annoying that i had two squeaking disc's in stead of just one. The left hand side has now stopped squawking but, still a little squeak from the right side, if it carries on i will remove the second disc as, i preferer to brake in quite ;)
TBH if feathering the front pads works as it often does in my experience with cars my suspicion would then be that it's a pad to disc alignment angle issue?
In cars it was linked to the move away from Asbestos pads - softer pads often cured the problem - cheaper so called high performance pads often made it much worse.
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Mine is not yet on the road yet, so I will have to see
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Mine is not yet on the road yet, so I will have to see
750 never seemed to squeak, i have never had one squeal . It is always the 400, 500 and 550's. ;)
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Mine is not yet on the road yet, so I will have to see
750 never seemed to squeak, i have never had one squeal . It is always the 400, 500 and 550's. ;)
It either did or didn’t 🤔
Do we knowwhat causes it…Ted is convinced it’s the pad edge
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TBH most of my experience with disc pads is on cars over the last 58 years of working on my own vehicles (35/36 in all excluding motor cycles ) plus working in the motor trade full time for 5 years with my late father who was a RR/Bentley apprentice in the final years of WW2.
My Dad started off working as a motor mechanic in the evenings post 1950 until he and his best mate at RR opened a Vauxhall Car Dealership initially in Mickleover moving to larger premises in Derby in around 1960. After their dealership was bought out by a succession of car retailers he became a Main Board Director of Bristol Street Motors International headed back in the day by the late Harry Cressman of BSG International.
My Dad supervised me fixing my first Honda a 250 Dream then guided me during my early Mini years - I was effectively raised as his apprentice from the age of 14 until I left Uni aged 23. I mention this as we both found squeaky brakes really annoying - feathering seemed to work on disc pads & also as an aside reduced brake grab on drum braked vehicles.
It was always my experience that the harder the brake pad the more regularly brake squeal occurred. I have always been a fan of "soft" brake pads as they used to reduce disc wear but produced a lot of brake dust - they did not last as long as "harder" pads and would fad sooner.
Once Asbestos was banned the issue seemed to become much more frequent as did disc brake run out due to warping discs - more so the early vented type. The move to sliding callipers has not always helped. Car manufacturers started to tell us it was a feature of the vehicles as they seemed to have no answer.
I have found feathering the disc pad not only works for many situations but it is now an integral part of modern car brake pad design. I am not claiming one size fits all - it has overwhelmingly worked for me.
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We are on about bikes with floating calipers Ted. It is a totally different from car calipers or any other type of fixed caliper :o
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Yes I know the caliper design is different - more similar to a single piston design like many cars with sliding calipers only difference seems to be the length of the pivot point.
Cars have a noise generated from where the pad meets the disc. Even top brands like Merc struggle with brake noises since Asbestos went away - they came out with anti-squeal shime etc - none worked for all.
I did wonder if the SS type disc material was part of the problem.
It did occur to me if multi piston calipers were part of the reason Porsche and the like seem much less prone. Could some sort of surface heat hardening be the cause?
On my Jeep the caliper pistons are not metal - they are a plastic type of material - might be to stop them sticking in wet conditions.
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Same stainless material disc on a 750 and no squeal. The 750 piston does have a domed cap that goes in the piston so the pad is not sitting on a flat against the piston.
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You saying that, the 500 have a circular nylon washer between pad and piston
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
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My 400 & 500 have the nylon type ring on the one static pad back.
I think Grahame is talking about the piston to pad contact being convex or concave.
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An original 750 caliper sectioned schematic shows the fixed pad as shamferred and piston side pad with relief around periphery.
Dome on back of fixed pad, as Graham states a dome under the piston pad, both to allow pad "float" to keep alignment flat with disc as caliper swings geometry with static pad wear.
Over the years different makes of pad have been supplied with shamferred edge or nil relief in my experience.
"Plastic" piston types in calipers are ordinarily Phenolic resin Ted, very high temperature resistant material with added advantage of low heat transfer to brake fluid given as advantage of use.
My experience is that you have to go unbelievably hot before that route into fluid would concern you, the whole caliper would be baking by then anyway. I've run v-high temp pads in competion car, up where the disc glow yellow and the wheel bearing grease starts to run out as oil! and without fluid boiling.
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I was using Plastic as a generic term in the broadest possible terms for anything from Nylon to Bakerlite sometimes derived from Petrochemicals.
Phenolic Resin nice to know the right handle to use - do any motorcycle manufactures use them in callipers?
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Battery fitted, no leaks as of yet
Making brackets to install front indicators, I shall fibreglass them to the inside of the fairing
Still looking for some high density foam to make a seat
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Have you looked at camping rollmats for foam?
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My 400 & 500 have the nylon type ring on the one static pad back.
I think Grahame is talking about the piston to pad contact being convex or concave.
Are you sure that is the correct fitment?
I understand it fits between piston and moving pad
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
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My 400 & 500 have the nylon type ring on the one static pad back.
I think Grahame is talking about the piston to pad contact being convex or concave.
Are you sure that is the correct fitment?
I understand it fits between piston and moving pad
Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk
TBH I can't remember now where that plastic washer went it's over a year ago now - my manual does not even show it as a part. I have it in my head that if it was on the static side otherwise it would sit inside the piston & serve no purpose.
There might have been a leaflet in the pad box someone here will have the right answer?
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Goes on the back of the moving pad.
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Goes on the back of the moving pad.
That makes sense in terms of anti-squeal function.
Updated:- A nagging doubt made me check my 500 front calliper - the nylon type washer can only fit on the piston side as its a different shaped pad back to the fixed side.
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Battery is in and not leaking as of yet.
Now working on fitting front indicators to the fairing, making brackets to fibreglass inside fairing
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Indicators done.
Getting closer to starting the engine. I’ve put a very small squirt of diesel and 2 stroke oil in the bores and turned the motor on the starter. Oil light went out after about three bursts.