Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Valentinik on December 18, 2016, 04:45:43 PM

Title: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: Valentinik on December 18, 2016, 04:45:43 PM

I'm looking for a Regulator/rectifier combo for my build to maximise space under the seat.

Is there a preferred model or supplier of unit that is better than others (DS, ricks, electrex,etc)

Also I'm not sure if it makes any difference but I am using a lithium battery.

Thanks
Mike

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: gtmdriver on December 18, 2016, 05:08:56 PM

I got the Electrex World version for my CB350F and it came with all the correct connectors to plug straight into the OEM harness.

It did not, however, come with any instructions, hints, pictures or clues as to how to mount it. It does not fit on the original mounting brackets, but I don't think any of the other combined units do either.

So far it is working fine on my Motobatt AGM battery.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on December 18, 2016, 05:19:56 PM

I'm using an electrex unit as well on my 550, and am also running a motobatt AGM battery.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: Valentinik on December 18, 2016, 06:05:30 PM

Thanks. It's, just had a look on their website and it  state they don't work with lithium batteries so il have to look at a different brand.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: gtmdriver on December 19, 2016, 09:58:58 AM

I'm not sure that you'll find any that will.

Lithium batteries tend to be very finicky about the charging rate, which is why you need a specialist charger for them.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: hairygit on December 19, 2016, 12:20:47 PM

Dead right their! Lithium batteries are great for a multitude of uses, but I personally shudder at the thought of one sitting close to my arse! Fine for a total loss ignition system like race bikes, as they are plugged into precision chargers to recharge them. If they overcharge or go wrong they are a disaster waiting to happen. (Remember science at school, lithium kept in a dark jar, under oil to protect it from oxygen, and teacher placing a very small piece in water!)

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: philward on December 19, 2016, 04:58:19 PM

I am building a CR and so have little space available for a battery - I have built a battery box to take a 'Shorai LFX14L2-BS12 Lithium Iron Motorcycle Battery' under the seat hump. The battery seems to be the recommended fitment on all the forums and as the bike will be used on the road with electric start and light, I can't use a total loss system. The battery adverts don't mention that there's an issue with charging (other than you need a special battery charger. Is it only the rec/reg combined unit the issue - ie, can I use the separate regulator and rectifiers without problem, or is it a charging issue generally. There's no mention in the spec that it has to be used with a total loss system only.
Thoughts and advice from you experienced sparks much appreciated before a through more money at this project!
Cheers
Phil

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: hairygit on December 19, 2016, 07:34:05 PM

What I was trying to point out is lithium batteries if overcharged may explode, big time, have a google around about the problems with little ones in mobile phones catching fire and burning houses down. Also, in. Australia and a few other countries they are totally forbidden from aircraft, and only permitted to be transported by road or sea. Question is, do you want something that unstable close to your arse or other body parts!

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: Nurse Julie on December 19, 2016, 07:39:49 PM

UK also ban them from aircraft as well now Hairy. I was in Poland for a week earlier this month , flew with Easyjet and they made a real big thing of it as you go through to board the plane.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: hairygit on December 19, 2016, 08:33:58 PM

And try fighting a Lithium fire! Water can cause it to explode violently, foam is no better, and even CO2 struggles with it! Glad to hear European airlines are aware of the dangers now, so, I ask again, who really wants a lithium battery anywhere near delicate body parts?

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: philward on December 19, 2016, 08:58:32 PM

And so is there a solution to the conundrum of space versus battery power in the CR replica situation?

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: hairygit on December 19, 2016, 09:11:59 PM

The major hurdle I can see is the need for electric start, if it was kick only or push starting it would be a whole lot easier to answer that ??? ???

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: Valentinik on December 19, 2016, 11:44:37 PM

Quote from: JustcallmeMrT on December 18, 2016, 05:19:56 PM

I'm using an electrex unit as well on my 550, and am also running a motobatt AGM battery.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

It seems like the lithium battery is not a great idea so il have to rethink where to mount the battery.  Can I ask what model of motobatt you fitted?

Thanks
Mike

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: gtmdriver on December 20, 2016, 08:30:13 AM

The problem is that, since lithium batteries are a relatively new innovation the rectifier/ regulator units, either combined or separate, are not designed to meet their very specific charging requirements.

The set-up on my Moto Guzzi was so crude that it even fried an AGM battery on a continental tour.

If you want reliable performance go for an AGM type. They give you mounting options but unfortunately they are no smaller than a standard wet type lead/acid battery.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: JustcallmeMrT on December 20, 2016, 08:49:34 AM

Quote from: Valentinik on December 19, 2016, 11:44:37 PM

Quote from: JustcallmeMrT on December 18, 2016, 05:19:56 PM

I'm using an electrex unit as well on my 550, and am also running a motobatt AGM battery.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

It seems like the lithium battery is not a great idea so il have to rethink where to mount the battery.  Can I ask what model of motobatt you fitted?

Thanks
Mike

I used MBT9B4.  It's a smaller battery but I typically kickstart the bike and have converted all lights to LED.  That said, I've had no issues.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: Tomb on December 20, 2016, 09:39:03 AM

Quote from: gtmdriver on December 20, 2016, 08:30:13 AM

If you want reliable performance go for an AGM type. They give you mounting options but unfortunately they are no smaller than a standard wet type lead/acid battery.

I've been won over by the AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries, I'm using a Motobatt on an old Yamaha and a different make on my CB500, and as said they can be mounted differently to lead acid, which is a good option on café bikes, being able to lie them flat.

Another point worth knowing is if you have the spec of the battery you need you can get the Motobatts cheaper than buying one specifically for your bike, same thing in the end. I saved £20.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: philward on December 20, 2016, 10:28:40 AM

Big problems for me know! I have modified the frame to mount the (£650!) alloy CR Rep oil tank so that there are now no standard oil tank mounts/etc and new brackets/braces. So watering down the authenticity of the rep a bit by returning to standard oil tank/battery box isn't an option. There isn't enough space that I can see for even a laid down std size battery under the racing seat. As it was my intention to fit a CR fairing, there won't be a kickstart only option. I might have to re-hack the back frame - the CR seat I've got fits on the rear 2 original mudguard mounts and the seat mountings setem I've fabricated to suit.
I think I've got a Christmas break of re-designing.
Thanks for feedback

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: Tomb on December 20, 2016, 02:25:22 PM

As long as the cranking rate of the battery is sufficient, the same as the original, you can fit any AGM battery, so a flatter style may fit somewhere else, I've known them be fitted under the engine and inside fairings.

Title: Re: Preferred Regulator/rectifier combo
Post by: philward on December 20, 2016, 02:42:28 PM

I am no electrician so I will bow to any sparks knowledge - what do you think of the info on the bottom of this link
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/229026/using-li-po-or-lifepo4-for-diy-motorcycle-battery

Extract:
If you keep the cells at low voltage you keep them mostly discharged.

When charging the cells, you could use a Buck–boost converter that would keep the voltage at the right level no matter what the alternator is producing. You also have to make sure that the convertor has a current limiting option, like this one.

Advantages and disadvantages:

LiFePo4 cells are safer than LiPo cells.
The life of LiFePo4 cells is much better. You can realistically expect twice the number of cycles or years if you don't do so many cycles.
LiPo cells are much lighter and are more compact for the same capacity.
LiPo cells have higher C ratings so for just starting the bike this could be a big plus.
In both cases it's recommended you have a BMS with balance capabilities and a current limiting charger. When the batteries get full, the BMS disconnects the pack from the alternator automatically.

I would probably do it with a 4S LiPo pack because it would be cheaper and more compact. I would expect the pack to last for ~4 years and then I would reconsider it.

------------------

Particularly ref the Buck Boost Converter

Your thoughts Sparks?