Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Project Board => Topic started by: mickwinf on November 06, 2021, 07:54:43 PM
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Due to popular demand i have called my 500 four "Lazarus". As some of you have seen in my other posts it was in very poor condition, many parts are past any hope, the engine is seized so not a great start. Originally i was going to leave it for a later date but decided to strip it down to better store it. well that poor bike had been horribly abused in the past so i feel it is my duty to bring Lazarus back to life. It will need all the usual stuff, engine and wheels rebuilt and lots of replacement parts, and the wiring... well it consisted of lots of odd connections and tape and all of the block connectors had been chopped off. Will need a new wiring loom complete. The first job will be to strip to the frame and get it de rusted and painted, so here we go again!
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Maintain the momentum please…this will be an epic.
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Great project, bringing that one back to life will be epic, and great to see I hate to see one being broken or binned.
Cheers
Dennis
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What a challenge - but will be very rewarding. Keep us updated
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This is going to be a good thread. At least the original tool kit appears to have survived.
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I do wonder how you are going to fit that beige seat
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Thanks for the support i think i will need it! Ken, thanks for the offer but i have the indicator brackets, i also have a grab bar which i may use, not sure yet. As regards the frame i think i might pain rather than powdercoat as it will need lots of work to make a good smooth job. The settee behind has now gone to the skip!
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the sofa looked like an easier restoration
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the sofa looked like an easier restoration
;D ;D ;D
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The strip down continues and was going fine with only a couple of seized bolts snapping, until i tried to remove one of the bolts on the front engine mount. Its the one that goes from the triangular bracket to a cast lug on the engine which houses the nut. Disaster, the lug has snapped off and i don't think it can be repaired, at least not to look original. Options are get some more crankcases or another engine, or use a 550 engine i already have. Hmmm, i am not fanatical about originality and may have to make some small changes to standard spec to make sure Lazarus gets back on the road.
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To fit the 550 you need the rh rear engine plate whichhas the clutch cable mount on it
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cheers Bryan, yes i have a spare one of those but not sure what to do yet, probably depends on what the insides of the engines look like. The engine is fighting me at the moment but should be out shortly.
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Thanks Ken that would be great, will probably be needing some main bearing shells........
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Lazarus is now stripped down to the frame, some things were suprisingly easy to remove, like the swing arm pivot was well greased and in good condition where others, as expected were seized and rusty and unwilling to leave their positions. The frame seems to be solid under the surface rust so hopeful it will be ok, engine is still in one lump, although i destroyed the sprocket cover that has the clutch adjusting mech in it, if anyone has a spare for sale let me know.
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I have a spare untidy one, without adjuster you canhave for£10 plus postage BUT i cant get at it for 2 weeks as my mate has just gone into isolation before a kneereplacement opp
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that would be great Bryan, let me know when you dig it out.
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I started to de rust the swing arm, and found a hole underneath near the torque arm mount, i think it can be welded and will be out of sight so ok so far but tips on getting the bushes out would be welcome.
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Pivot bushes or shock bushes.
Pivot bushes fit hacksaw blade through the hole and cut till bush collapses, i have ocassionally had to cut 2 opposite sides of bush
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Yes its the pivot bushes, the shocker ones came out using two sockets and the vice.
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Poor Poor Lazarus, he has been horribly mistreated in the past and more things come to light as i strip him down further. As expected the pistons were seized up but also the alternator part that screws to the interior of the outer casing was not attached at all so further jamming everything together. i now have all the crankcase bolts out but does not want to come loose, i have remembered the hidden bolt inside the sump area but no dice. advice welcomed please.
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Most likely the dowels are welded into the cases, you could try a little heat in those areas, whilst you hit the cases with a dead blow hammer.
I'd just buy a second hand swinging arm Mick, I'd never trust welding in that area unless the metal was brand new, the problem is you cannot see the inside of the arm which could be rusting through.
I have loads of spares for the 500 Mick, let me know if you need anything and if I have you can either have it FOC (just postage) or for a small fee if it's rare.
I have at least 2 sets of crankcases, I was going to throw them soon as the shed is coming down early next year and I'll be binning a ton of stuff, most rusty etc so probably no good but the scrapman was very interested and offered to clean the shed out for me. I threw a stack of A/F spanners/sockets out, they just get in my way.
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cheers Ken, i would be interested in a pair of crankcases, and i have considered getting another swingarm. I am at a crossroads with this restoration,as a lot of parts will have to be replaced including the crankcases so it will not be a correct numbers bike when done. Do i still spend loads of money and get it to original or rebuild to a slightly non standard spec which would be cheaper to do, much like my original 500 in the seventies.
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The engine is now stripped down and i can make an assessment of the work needed. The crank and shells seem to be in very good condition, but the gearbox has some damage with two of the gears that the selector forks fit into having chips out of them where the forks fit. at first glance the forks themselves seem ok, will check closely later. The cylinder head looks ok and the bores are rusty and it was already .5mm oversize. The main issue is the crankcase has been damaged on the front engine mount and i don't know if it will be repairable or not or what it would look like after repair. I will put a pic up to get the opinion of any welding experts out there.
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pic of crankcase damage
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Blimey Mick that's one rough starting point, you must be up for a challenge. Hope it all goes well for you mate (although from the last pics it's clearly not). Will be keeping an eye on this one.
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Thats fairly common damage when the bolts corrode, as its not the very early "square" crankcase notworth saving.
If Ken cant sort you a set i should have some somewhere
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I'll see how my spare cases look Mick, might be a day or so as it's raining hard here and the shed has not much of a roof left.
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well its been a while since my last post on Lazarus and not much progress with rebuild, however i am sorting parts out ready when i have a bit of time. Oddjob has sorted a pair of crankcases for me and helped with advice on shells, and i have new primary and cam chains. Will be a big order going to mr Silver soon including shells and gaskets etc but its time that's short at the moment with garden projects for my partner a priority. I did manage to buy a really good original seat today, and a pair of original mudguards and a few other bits so getting there slowly!
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Wow brave man, and fair play to you!
I'm facing a top end strip down on my 750 after a small disaster cooking my cam... this gives me momentum to get it sorted ![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Ps I've a 750 oil tank in good condition if its compatible...
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its going to be a long job! thanks for the offer but the 500 is a wet sump so no oil tank needed.
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Just as an aside but exactly how long was it before Lazarus came back from the dead as he seems overdue ;D ;D ;D
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if i was a god it would be sooner! collecting bits as i see them ready for the build, we must arrange pick up of the crankcase, but i need to check the gearbox to see if you have any of the parts i need. will be in touch soon.
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Mick I have a complete NOS gearbox, every single part is brand new. I intend to fit it in the rebuild of my old engine, I do have quite a few old parts as well from various engines. Depends on what part it is.
The hardest part to find is the middle selector fork, rare as a Stockport virgin over 13
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The hardest part to find is the middle selector fork, rare as a Stockport virgin over 13
😂😂😂
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You need to keep an eye on ebay US and buy a 350 twin selector drum with forks to get the middle fork, but dont tell everybody
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the selector forks look ok but a couple of the gears were chipped, can single gears be replaced or would it be better to replace the whole cluster?
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The gears were never made in pairs so shouldn't really matter in reality.
Chipping of teeth though is usually associated with the possibility of a bent fork, so check carefully (two gears trying to run in competition and nipping bits off) or thrust washers, circlips etc being compromised and so letting the gears float, giving a similar outcome of clashing.
Worthwhile checking all the thrusts, location (so the whole shaft can't shift sideways when the forks are used to change gear) to make sure the rebuild doesn't suffer the same.
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it was the dogs that had broken off
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Let me know which ones Mick, I'll have a look. I do have a spare 3rd gear IIRC but not sure if it's counter or main shaft 3rd.
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There is one gear that must be replaced with its mating gear as Honda changed the tooth profile during the years of production, trouble is i cant remember which one, what happened is when you ordered either gear it went to a supercision part number and you got both
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ok i have had a look at my gearbox and the two broken gears are on the countershaft, the two that slide along moved by the two outer forks. on the parts book pic they are numbered 10 and 12. Also i need the gearchange shaft that the gear lever fits onto as i knackered it getting it out
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Should have a gearchange shaft Mick.
Countershaft 4th and 5th. I'll have a look at the NOS ones to see how they look and then see about seeing what else I have.
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Ok Mick, just did a deep dive through my old gearboxes, I threw a few out a couple of years ago as I got sick of looking at them. But it seems I still have at least 2 full boxes lying around.
First off, found a gearchange shaft, will clean it up and inspect it but looks ok at first glance, I know I still have another in another box as I keep moving it to get to smaller pieces. So I'll have at least one good one, hopefully.
No 12 on the diagram is Countershaft top gear, 23491-286-030, I have 1 of those, it's still on the shaft so I'll need to remove the 2 gears in front of it to remove it but looks ok. Will clean and check. Almost certainly another in my other gearbox box but will check this one out first. I also have a spare NOS one for some reason.
No 10 on the diagram is Countershaft Fourth, 23471-286-010. This is the one I believe that Bryan was referring to as I had to buy both itself and the matching gear Countershaft Low, 23420-323-010. This may be because this gear was superceded from 23420-323-000 which was only fitted to the K0 version of the 500. So it could have had a possible problem when the K0 came out which was rectified in the K1 onward. As both of my spare boxes are from K1's it shouldn't be a problem. I have 2 of 23471-286-010 and 2 of 23420-323-000. One has the removable bush missing but yours should still have it. Need to clean and inspect all of the 4 gears before saying they are ok to use.
I'll let you know the result after the cleaning and inspecting process. Most important that gears are ok as any breakages etc are a bugger to fix after the engines installed.
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perfect, thanks Ken, let me know when you have checked.
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Lots of pics coming up so may split the reply.
Gearchange shaft, the one I found today I gave up on. The end that goes in the clutch case was perfect, lovely condition, the shaft though was really rusty and I was concerned the it would bugger up the oil seal. That saying where the seal sat looked ok but the rest of the shaft has to pass through the seal before it gets fully into place. So whilst I haven't binned it I looked for the other one. That was the opposite, shaft really nice, bit of corrosion but nothing too bad. The other end though was rusty as hell. Took me a couple of hours to get it to look nice again. Checked everything and can find no faults. Splines for gear lever are great, tested with a lever I'm currently working on and it just slid on and even without a pinch bolt it wouldn't slip. The large spring is still soaking but is good, so I'll refit that as soon as I've cleaned it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3MjMjRk/IMG-2597.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9xR32d8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Kjf2HN8c/IMG-2598.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wR1ZtDNn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HkRCRjdM/IMG-2599.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyCMRzLD)
Next item. No 12 or 23491-286-030. Removed it from the shaft, really starting to hate those odd circlips, even with decent Snap On circlip pliers as soon as you expand the clip it twists round and won't come off. The gear wasn't too bad, fair amount of rust but surface type in general. Cleaned and inspected, cannot find any fault with it, all teeth good, no chips, dogs in good nick. Came out pretty good as well. Looks almost new.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VspBS8fR/IMG-2594.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmQbDRbJ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D0JrCCgL/IMG-2595.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BP3PbBRn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nL9nhB0T/IMG-2596.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9mGfBky)
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You're a top man Ken :)
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Next item. Here's where it starts to get complicated, sorry.
No 10 gear or 23471-286-010. I found 2 of those but gave up on 1 as it was a little too rusty and it wasn't worth the effort to clean it as I suspected it may fail after a few years of use. It was marginal and if the part was really really rare and unobtainable I'd have used it but it's not so in the bin it goes. The other wasn't anywhere near as bad to start with and after cleaning and inspecting I can find no faults. All gear teeth ok, no chips or signs of uneven wear, Both sets of dogs are good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Rh5qdTVb/IMG-2591.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDx14ZXb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hGYXznFn/IMG-2592.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZwjmT71)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XYQGWFQp/IMG-2593.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFKxkBL3)
So those are the 3 items you want BUT as Bryan says gear No 10 usually comes supplied with gear No 5 as No 5 was changed after the K0. Here's the complicated bit. I found 2 No 5 gears 23420-323-010 or so I thought. One still had the bronze bush inside it, the other didn't. They look identical but on closer inspection and only because I'm a perfectionist did I spot this. After cleaning them both up I was wondering which to offer you, both came out great, no damage. However the one with the bronze bush still installed was bugging me as it wasn't fully driven home. Tried to move it, nope. Stuck hard. Got the old Mapp gas torch out and heated it up. Tried to tap it out, nope. So using the other one as a test sample I found a socket to drive the bush out, wasn't a great fit but it would do. Took it back to the vice and strangely the socket is now too big, odd. Another smaller socket found and more heat and out she popped, promptly rolled off across the garage and hid itself whilst gently steaming at the same time. Went to pick it up, forgot it was mad hot and burnt my fingers, suitable swear words later and back to the vice it goes. Only when this bush is removed does it become apparent the 2 gears are very slightly different. Out with my NOS gear complete with part label and it's clear the one I've just removed the bush from is not 23420-323-010 but 23420-323-000. So it's from a K0 engine, most likely the same engine as the cases are that your having. This is really odd as to my knowledge I have never broken a K0 and there weren't that many around to break anyway, yet I have 2 sets of engine cases both beginning with a 1 not a 2 like the K1. I did buy a few spare engines back in the day and acquired a few more when my family was also buying 500 engines for their bikes.
So here's what they look like. 000 first. You can see a small lip on the central boss.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L819C1wc/IMG-2587.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWJz0CTH)
010. No lip, smooth straight through hole.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FKX92KQ7/IMG-2588.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RWG5t4hB)
The other bush is like a top hat on 010, I used the bush out of my NOS one to show the difference.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J00mbDjd/IMG-2589.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgJpymqW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5WSv9T4/IMG-2590.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p5K3Lt43)
So to put this simply, you need to find out which of the 2 types you currently have. Does it have a top hat bush which comes out easily and is therefore a 010 or a pressed home bush like 000. It's the large gear next to the needle roller on the countershaft.
Oh 1 last thing, the little dots etc you can see on the gears are not rust spots or pits, they are just the way they are cast, it's not a smooth surface by any means.
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thanks for all your efforts Ken, i will have a look over weekend and see what i have
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Hi Ken i have just had a closer look at my gearbox and have found some more issues. Firstly the gears you have are perfect, numbers 10 and 12. My gear no 10 has the top hat style bush and seems in good nick. Bad news is the countershaft has some corrosion on the part that the oil seal rides on and not sure how well it will clean up. Also the c/s main bearing is noisy and rough, as are the two needle roller bearings on both shafts. Mainshaft seems ok all gears are sound as is the bearing. I agree with you about the circlips, awkward little beggars, will try to get new ones.
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You mean the large collar on the end of the shaft Mick? I actually removed that the other day from the countershaft I removed the gear from. Just mucking about. I removed the bearing as it's a very hard to find part, this one seemed fine, span it in a container of brake cleaner and it sounded ok so I removed it from the shaft, spotted the little O-Ring that sits behind the bearing so thought I'd remove that to. Then noticed the way the shaft was machined, which meant that the collar had to be removable, which it turned out to be. Only the very inner part contacts the seal, common to see damage on the outside of the collar. Mine has some damage.
I cleaned up the countershaft, mine also has some corrosion on it, it's marginal as to being reused. The bearing, yep that's ok, cleaned it up, filled it with silicon oil and bagged it up in a sealable plastic bag along with the O-Ring and the collar. Almost certainly got another shaft somewhere, will take a look.
When you say gears are perfect, you mean the ones I posted pics of or the ones you have, wording is confusing me.
Wonder what happened with the gearbox you've got, seems a lot of damage going on it there. I'd inspect the main shaft as well Mick, check all gears etc if a countershaft gear goes it can take the corresponding gear with it.
Make a list of everything you need and I'll trawl through my box of bits and see what I can dig up.
Good news is that I found the top hat bush, I didn't spot it hiding in the bottom of the box, there were 2 mainshafts in the and quite a few of the gears. I looks like there were 2 complete gearboxes in there at one time. Will check the other bin I keep gearbox parts in and see if there is another countershaft in there.
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Hi Ken, i meant the gears look really good and will be great for me. I have investigated a bit more and the mainshaft looks good all throughout, including the needle roller when i checked it and cleaned it. The countershaft has rust pits on the end that runs in the needle roller (no 24) so might be noisy or wear quickly , and the collar where the oil seal rides is pitted also. I have checked the selector drum and forks, and the centre fork is ok as is the lh one, however the rh one nearest the clutch side does have some wear and is a little tight on the selector drum. I am wondering if that was the cause of the dogs breaking off? so parts i need are the two gears 10 and 12, a countershaft with bearings inc needle roller, a rh selector fork and the gearchange shaft.
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on even closer inspection i have found some tiny chips off the mainshaft gear, 3rd/2nd so need that also if you have one. have stopped looking now!
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I may have found the internal needle roller bearing new, I presume then outer casing is still fine?
It cost £5.50 and I ordered 2 so I could test them. Will let you know when it arrives, same make as the Honda one, Koyo.
Checked the other box and nothing of use. It was this box I emptied of most of the gearbox bits as they were getting on my nerves.
The other alternative is to wait for me top split my engine and we'll see what the box is like in that. I'll be fitting my NOS gearbox in it's entirety so that box will be going spare. No idea when I'll get round to breaking then engine but some time this summer I'd imagine.
The mainshaft gear 3/2nd. I presume that's the double sliding gear, if so I spotted 2 of those in the first box. Might have a decent right hand selector, 24211-323-000, will have a look. That's the only part I'm missing for a complete NOS gearbox, I keep spotting them but they are always too dear. I was thinking of going with the Italian alternative where they make new selectors which are supposed to be better than the Honda ones, should have bought them before Br-----T though.
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No joy on the right hand selector fork, got 3 left ones and remember giving the last right one to Trigger a year or so ago.
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i think its actually the lh one i need as had the crankcases upside down, i think it is the one at neutral switch end but will check again
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The left and right look almost identical, the way to spot the difference is that they both have an inward curve on the fork, the outward curve is the difference, on the left it's a nice arch shape, on the right it has a section that dips in right on the crown of the arch.
We are talking about the metal bracket coming off the tube that holds the fork ends BTW.
All my left hand ones are really good.
I contacted the Italian people today asking for a price for all 3 selectors, they are 450 euros for all 3 but they offered me all 3 for 375 a few years ago. I'm seeing if they'll still do the same deal. If they do I'll sell my NOS forks, the middle fork is the rarest and can fetch close to £200 alone, the left hand one is around £100-120. So if I sell those it almost covers the cost of the new ones.
2/3rd gears are soaking in brake cleaner, we'll see what they look like shortly.
I've often wondered why the needle rollers are different on the 2 shafts, one has them captive in a cage and the other has loose rollers yet both are the same size.
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what you say about the two needle rollers is interesting, both of mine have caged rollers, however one has one roller per gap in the cage and the other has two rollers per gap.
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"I've often wondered why the needle rollers are different on the 2 shafts, one has them captive in a cage and the other has loose rollers yet both are the same size."
More load and lower speed favours crowded (rollers next to each other) and higher shaft speed ordinarily heads toward single rollers spaced individually in their cage.
Logic would say the clutch shaft has crowded, with the remote shaft using singular rollers. I don't know which orientation they are in this engine.
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Looks to be the other way round. I took one apart the other day, the cage was rusted into the bearing housing and it had the pushrod hole so it must be the clutch one. As said this was the caged one.
Normally there is one roller bearing where the rollers just fall out when you remove the bearing from the shaft and the other which doesn't. Normally have to use grease on the loose roller type to keep them in.
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Probably my thinking as looking at 750 concept that has final reduction on output Jack shaft in comparison to 500 that's got reduction on Jack shaft prior to clutch. That's going to switch the gearbox shaft speeds when comparing 500 to 750.
So then looks logically opposite to my previous view.
500 is crank, chain reduction, jack reduction to clutch, clutch shaft to output shaft.
750 is crank, chain reduction to clutch direct, clutch shaft to output shaft, then another reduction to sprocket output.
Think that's how they both go.
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Hi Ken, it is definitely the left side fork i need, any luck on the other bits? we can arrange a pick up soon.
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Cleaned up a left fork, that's ready.
Currently I have
2/3rd gear, mainshaft. Not pristine but ok. Some wear showing on the teeth faces but nothing out of the ordinary.
Gear change shaft, complete with spring. Check spring positioning as I forgot which way it went on, 50% chance of being right.
No 10 gear, good condition.
No 12 gear, good condition
No 5 gear, complete with bush, if required.
Countershaft bearing, seems fine.
Countershaft collar, not perfect but should be ok.
Got 2 new needle roller cages on the way, not sure if they'll be the same but worth a look. The outer bearing housing should clean up, it's only the internals which wear as a rule.
Have I missed anything?
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that sounds like the lot Ken, PM me a price and we can arrange a meet.
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Couldn't get the needle roller bearings, they cancelled the order saying they had no stock.
Forgot to add, crankcases of course.
No charge Mick, you can pay for petrol if we meet up.
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thats very kind Ken, i will make a donation to the forum.
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So it is slow going with Lazarus, not much been happening due to other commitments but some progress has been made. His new crankcases are ready, just need painting and all the gearbox bits are now here, many thanks to oddjob for those. New primary and cam chains and primary rubbers will be fitted and new shell bearings. One interesting thing is i got a gasket set from a different supplier than silvers as they were out of stock, and it did include the rubber pucks which are normally extra. I have also been collecting parts as they come up like an almost mint seat so Lazarus will rise at some point!
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Just so long as it dont leave a wierd ending like the new tv series!
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Great to hear there is progress. Looking back on this post, shit that was one rough bike! Gtreat for the before and after. 🤣
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One interesting thing is i got a gasket set from a different supplier than silvers as they were out of stock, and it did include the rubber pucks which are normally extra.
Yep, I've had three sets of 500 and three sets of 550. Various makes. 500s all had them.
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well i have started to re assemble the replacement crankcases which came off an earlier bike, and i am a bit puzzled by the neutral stopper thingy that screws into the top case and engages with the shifter drum. I always presumed it had a ball that engaged in a hole to give a positive position for neutral, and indeed the earlier version has one, however the later version does not have the ball. So what does it actually do? is it just to keep the shifter drum from moving laterally? At least i am putting things together now!
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Not quite with your there. I don’t think 550 has the top stopper. Least mine doesn’t
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Its just to locate the drum, there should be a collar on the spigot of the bolt, neutral stopper is then part of the mechanism on the drum end behind the clutch
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Bryan is spot on. This mechanism was revised by Honda part way through the K0 production run IIRC. They removed the ball bearing and changed the mechanism inside the clutch area for a more positive neutral selection. The upper bolt ends in a thin pin which is too thin for the drum so they packed this out with a small collar which prevents the drum from moving side to side and causing engagement issues.
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cheers guys, it makes a bit of sense now after thinking about it, what confused me was the drum still has an indent for the ball, just not used on later models.
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Which bit are we talking about please. You have me worried as I don’t recollect seeing this in my rebuild….☹️
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Which bit are we talking about please. You have me worried as I don’t recollect seeing this in my rebuild….☹️
The engine in this thread is a CB500 Four and not a CB550 ;)
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Phew..thanks trigger.
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So I am starting the re-assembly of Lazarus's engine and have rebuilt the gearbox and now fitting the crankshaft. I have a problem with number 2 big end journal, when i fit the con rod it feels tight and a bit notchy. I have new bearings according to the numbers on the crank and rod, and have tried both green and yellow with the same effect. Looking at the shells they seem to rub near the joint between the main rod and cap, i have the rod the correct way round according to the manual and the crank pin looks good unless it has gone oval? i dont have any measuring gear to check so not sure what to do next. This bike is fighting me all the way!
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When I had a high spot on a conrod after fitting my casings together it turned out to be oxidation / oil tarnish on the bare con rod. Cleaned them up using a light rub with Duraglit.
Were your conrods nice & clean where the shells sit? The tolerances are very close on these Hondas.
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The bare rods seemed ok but will check. Interestingly, i was very careful to put the rod caps on the correct way round as per the manual, with the notch on the shell to the exhaust side of the engine and the markings on the side of the rods lined up. I removed the offending rod and re-assembled on the bench and the ends of the shells even by eye looked un even. I put it back on the engine and turned the cap round the "wrong" way, and hey presto a smooth turning rod. What do i do now, was it a fault from new? should i get another rod?
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The bare rods seemed ok but will check. Interestingly, i was very careful to put the rod caps on the correct way round as per the manual, with the notch on the shell to the exhaust side of the engine and the markings on the side of the rods lined up. I removed the offending rod and re-assembled on the bench and the ends of the shells even by eye looked un even. I put it back on the engine and turned the cap round the "wrong" way, and hey presto a smooth turning rod. What do i do now, was it a fault from new? should i get another rod?
IIRC my 400 has the notches on the same side that has always seemed odd to me but I went by the manual & the original fittment.
Have you Plasigauged the bearing in question?
Not sure if its a tad tight on the bearing size or you have some ovalation on the conrod. I guess accurate measurement is needed.
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Not sure if you've done this Mick but it's something you should know about.
Got 2 550 engines earlier this week. Both minus gearboxes and essentially just cases, cranks and primary drive. The clutches were also there but seperate as were the generators etc.
One set of cases still had the barrels on, fins chipped to hell and back, I presumed that the barrels were bonded to the cases so made plans to remove them. Couple of hefty whacks with a rubber hammer and up they popped, some wiggling (and this was them in a large crate in the back of my car) and eventually the barrels came off. Good news I thought except I now noticed that number 2 rod was seized, removed the psitons, top case off (no bolts were fitted) and turned the crank around until I could access the 2 rod bolts. Removed the nuts and split the rod, the oil gallery in the crank feeding that journal was completely blocked with solid white powder, the crank still looked ok, the shells weren't marked but they were contaminated. I got the powder out by just sliding a 3mm drill down and spinning it by hand. I can't think what caused this, it could be water ingress or condensation or something else. I may remove the ball bearings capping the internal oil galleries and running a 3.5mm drill down them or I may try and see if a bottle brush and some brake cleaner will do the trick.
So check the oil gallery opening on that journal, maybe there's a small amount of stuff just sticking up and that's catching the shell, if you've tried yellow and it's still sticking it's not a shell selection issue. Check the rod journal surface for any dents that would reduce the clearance.
Have you tried another rod on that journal?
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Interesting you should say that Ted, all the cars i worked on had the notches on opposite sides, but as you say honda says both pointing forward, and there are witness marks on the rods and caps, except the one in question which seems to have always been fitted the opposite way round. Ken, all the oilways were clear and i have cleaned them all again. I have fitted it with green shells now and all turns smoothly, another one tightened up when i torqued it up but fitted the yellow shells and now ok, so i will mate the crankcases and go from there.
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Yes the japanese apear to differ in that notches are on same side, 400 manual also says notches to front of engine but not seen anything in 500/550 manual
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Hi Bryan i got the info from Honda manual page 50.
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I will have to re read it, if you downloaded it from here its mine anyway!
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Perfectly correct but it was 20 yrs ago i scanned it, i just build the 500 on autopilot now!
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Lazarus is still fighting me, I took his barrels to get Triggers expert opinion and they were deemed beyond repair. Luckily Graham had a set that can be reconditioned so hope that's another step forward. The crankcases are back together now so next step is replacing the gearchange mechanism and clutch etc. It is getting expensive now, hope i dont have to sell my 550 to pay for it!
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Holy Sh*t balls Batman..................dont do That!!!!
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a bit of progress
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Still not keen on that front stud near the camchain tunnel Mick, will it come out?
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i have not tried to remove it Ken, should I?
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You can try but if it doesn't move don't force it. A really good stud extractor is generally essential, the 2 nut trick doesn't normally work.
I may have a decent stud lying around.
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This afternoon i started to re-assemble the gearchange mechanism, and to check if it changes properly. It does not. It seemed to change up ok but not down again, i have checked everything i can think of but am worried I may have done something wrong inside the gearbox but was very careful so not sure what i might have done.
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Remove the gearchange shaft, get a screwdriver and fit it into the screw on the end of the gearchange drum. Whilst rotating the clutch shaft turn the screwdriver and see if it goes up and down ok using just that method. If it does, it's either the pins in the drum which the gearchange shaft engages onto or the shaft itself. If it doesn't it's not the gearchange shaft so you can eliminate that.
Did you assemble the engine in the top case or the bottom case?
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I cant think of anything internal that would allow upchange but not down change, try rotating both shaft when trying, especially 5th down to 2nd
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will have a look tomorrow. I assembled it in the upper crankcase
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Bit late to say this Mick but ALWAYS do a dry run changing gears when it's still in the top case, do the screwdriver trick and you can not only make sure all the gears select but also you can watch the gears engaging and spot any problems.
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Well i had a fiddle with things and it seems to work ok now, i think i was not spinning the shafts enough. So i thought i would assemble the clutch, and all went well until the final bolt sheared off! Will sort that another day, Lazarus will live!
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Bolt in the clutch or in the case?
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Ken it was one of the 4 bolts that go on the springs, so in the clutch centre, wasn't even putting any force on it.
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Anything left sticking out?
I have some of those bolts spare I think, measure one and I'll see if the 550 ones are the same.
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The sheared bolt was easy to sort as the hole it fits in is open both ends so i drilled into it from behind and it wound itself out. I have been fretting about the gearbox it did not seem right to me, so convinced myself to strip it back down. I have acquired a spare gearbox so compared the two and against the manual. it seemed i had one of the thrust washers wrong, not sure how much it would affect things but given me a bit of peace of mind. I also changed a couple of bits as the spares were in better nick. One more question for you Ken, remember the gear with the top hat bush? i am a bit worried if it is in the correct way, is it as per your photo on page 4 of this thread? I am also going to double check the selectors to make sure they are correct. My new rebored barrels and pistons are ready at triggers so slowly but surely it will rise again.
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Yeah top hat goes in on the flange side. Correction, it's the other side that has the rim of the hat so to speak.
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still a bit unsure what you mean Ken, the gear itself can only go one way, with the bigger flange pointing away from the engine, but which way does the bush go into the gear?
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One side has a large flange, the top hat goes into the other side.
Check these pics out and you can see exactly how it's supposed to go.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304152817976?epid=1448046328&hash=item46d0ebb138:g:YQsAAOSwg~lhHSnd&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoIseFkLImPs59nIiXYeT68BoZX6wtAby2LjaSf5DLdGPPaFjYbg%2B6iwc%2FqiJT3sBM5Sg5EodT9l%2FC6sDlWMMT3VCBtpRTTGXeAme2ZxeguvqSfz2sp4BYchB6M7NgwKk%2FCnGz%2BPtILF%2FDap9CBqnip9Tm704RgBvqIi9UC1UVOH41TMnlSba4PoeMBdSKXHgEMAKc%2B3Z7R7H5QHwkQFFAQI%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-i6g5HaYA
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thanks Ken that makes it clear.
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The engine is going together, new pistons in a re-bored barrel and the cam tensioner with new blade and end rubbers. One small bit missing is the washer that fits on the kickstart shaft before the cover goes on. It is an 18mm washer but is it a special one? How thick should it be as i presume it may bind if too thick. Or if anyone has one spare? Next job is to sort a head, I have a couple of them needing rebuilding or one that I bought from a chap who rebuilt it years ago and gas flowed it but did he do it properly? He is a bike mechanic but still need to check. It came with a camshaft from a cb650 which i understand is a mod that gives a little more power but i am not sure if i will use it.
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I'll have a look Mick.
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I have found the washer on another engine so thats sorted. for anyone stuck for one it measures 18mm x 28mm x 1.5mm. Engine is coming on now as can be see in the pics, although its a bit like triggers broom as not much of the original engine is left as it was pretty bad condition.
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Looking nice and tidy.
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You know thats difficult to see the improvement from original--------------ducks and hides
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Cases came out nice Mick.
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A long thin Parcel arrived today from Philpotts hard chroming. Its the first time i have had fork legs rechromed and as with everything else on Lazarus they were in very bad condition. But wow what a job they have done, including the top nuts all for £215, and that also includes post both ways. Top company well recommended.
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Very I little progress on Lazarus lately as I have not been feeling too good, but engine almost together, needs cam cover painting and fitting and points plate installing. I have made a start on polishing the fork bottoms, and also keep buying things i will need later in the rebuild. Stashed away around the house and shed i have a very nice original seat, front and rear mudguards and a pair of fork ears, plus lots of small items. I will be needing some other bits so i will put a wanted ad, just wanted to update all you Lazarus fans!
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Thats looking fantastic, what a difference. Thats really coming on now Mick.
Philpotts are fantastic arent they? It's always been the hassle free bit of any resto Ive ever had a carck at, is brilliant. Like you say, they come get them, fettle them and then send em back with minimum fuss and dont seem to baulk at the things they get to work on, especially the sh!te I've sent them in the passed!!
Used them several times in the passed and if memory serves they did the forks on my LC350 when I was 18........I'm 49 now so just goes to show, good business's tend to stay around dont they?
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Where'd the points cover come from Mick? Looks a decent bit of kit.
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Hi Ken the points cover i was told came off a cb650, it does seem to be a better quality item than the standard chrome item like the one i got off you. I will fit the chrome one when i build the bike back up.
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If you want to sell it, let me know Mick.
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and if he doesnt want it, I'll have it, that looks much nicerthan the standard affair tbh.
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I’m in the queue too. Oddjob might not survive his first ladyboy sled ride and Roo is dealing with crocs (not the popular footwear).
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Or are they gators?
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Twowheelspares has a 650 cover for sale on Ebay, it's got some slight damage but nothing that won't polish out IMO. There's a NOS in Italy but it's around £100 including P&P.
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Gators dear, they're emuch mre sofisticated I mean, middle class than mere crocodiles I'll have you know.
The chap who helps oout here had a personal best here last week...............8'6"...Yikes, thats quite a beast!
No pictures sadly!
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A little progress with Lazarus, i now have a complete correct airbox thanks to Gary, all cleaned and polished with new air filter and spring. Also have the little rubber seal that fits at the front of filter holder and the tool tray etc. Will need a new gauze for the intake but i think Julie sells them, also if anyone has the little flat spacer washer thingy that goes between the filter box and manifold i need one to be correct. Engine is almost complete, i have just fitted an oil pressure switch but unsure if it needs any thread sealer or is it self sealing?
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Its a taper thread so the theory is no sealant but a turn or two of ptre tape wont hurt
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Engine now finished and painted and polished, can go to one side until rebuild time. As a bit of a change i have started to work on the front forks. One lower has been polished up and fitted with new seal and re-united with a re-chromed stanchion but i have a question about the fitment. My forks are the early type with the rod up the middle which screws into the top nut, with a lock nut under. My question is, how should it be adjusted?
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Screw the rod into the top nut until it won't go any further and lock it with the locknut. IIRC.
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thanks Ken that makes sense
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An update on Lazarus, I have been making some progress although not much spare time at the moment so have been buying parts needed as they come up at good prices. Some have come from members here, others from ebay and others from Silvers. I now have all the bits for the wheel rebuilds so thats the next job. Forks and yokes all done, rechromed stanchions, polished bottoms, new seals and gaitors etc. The headlamp mounting ears are actually K0 ones in really good condition i got from the USA, although not correct for the year as he will never be a show bike it does not bother me. Next in line is the frame and swing arm, I am trying a new place locally and have left some smaller parts with him to powder coat. We had a discussion about the frame, as it is very pitted and I was thinking the pits may show, so may have it blasted and primed before rubbing down to a smooth finish, then either wet paint or powder. We will decide when its blasted. I have some sub assemblies ready, and have sourced a good seat and a pair of mudguards so starting to come together. Lazarus will rise from the dead!
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Just been reading this whole thread you are making great progress especially looking at your starting point - you must be chuffed Mick.
It will be interesting to see how the frame turns out. I believe there are very good primer filler coats that can hide pitting when using ordinary paint so the primer p/c route should work for you.
FWIW my 400 frame was a tad thick on the powder coating - they managed to completely obscure any sign of the stamped frame number so it hid all the pitting marks.
My 500 frame was powder coated by a different firm clearly much thinner coating - I can still see the frame number by comparison to the above.
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Thanks the update…progress is being made. Any pics?
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Yesh pleeash! :D
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Mick, IndexTripleS is the best powder coater I know for frames, he has a custom built blasting cabinet to take frames. If they is a lot of pitting they can put on a high build primer first if you request it. His gloss black is very good, doesn't fade in the sun like some other powder coats do. He's in Bingley, not a million miles away from you.
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He did mine. First class job. Check your frame for welding splatter too and dress it off first.
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I'm guessing like most things in life you get what you pay for in terms of perfection with powder coaters. My 400 frame with battery box etc in 2021 was £155, my 500 frame etc in 2022 was £190.
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IndexTripleS featured in loads of magazines who used him for their projects. Never heard a bad word said about his work.
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IndexTripleS featured in loads of magazines who used him for their projects. Never heard a bad word said about his work.
So just how expensive are TripleS then ?
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This lot cost about £300 in March 2021
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That's a fair do!
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I will go with my local guy for convenience, will see how good a job it is.
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Still having probs posting pictures, trying from phone now
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Ha! works from phone, so more pics incoming.
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Frameo
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Wheel before rebuild
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I use something like those to stop my boat from floating away - can't wait to see the end result!
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Christ Mick, the left hand down tube is really bad. There appears to be something wrong with the left hand footrest mount part as well, has it been welded or is part of it missing.
Mick, I cannot stress this enough, the frame is critical, some powder coaters are cowboys more used to doing park benches where the finish doesn't really matter, they can use sand instead of grit or beads, they can leave blasting media in all the threads holes, the media they use can hole frames sometimes if it's really aggressive. Use a powder coater who knows bikes, who knows what to do and how to get the best results. It's a very costly mistake to go for cheapness or because it's handy.
Phil, did you have yours done in Satin? I always choose gloss for frames, it's what on there originally and IMO it's the best finish for a frame. Seen a frame at TripleS done in Candy Blue, god it looked awesome. His Candy Red is awesome as well, I had some brake calipers for my Astra done in Candy Red and they still looked great 15 years later.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W10hxVw4/Red-Rear-Calipers3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DyXZbhDc/Red-Rear-Calipers1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
TripleS used to have a price list on site but they seem to have removed it, a 500 frame was around £150 last time I checked. https://triple-s.co.uk/
Check out the gallery.
Ted, I've asked TripleS for a price for a frame, he used to do the swinging arm FOC if it was the same colour but he seems to have stopped that in recent years, when he replies I'll let you know.
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Yes, satin. Didn’t want to be too ‘heard like’ with gloss and I quite like it.
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Mick those wheels have cheered me up no end mine are nothing like as bad in terms of corrosion but cosmetically not good.
FWIW there is a frame on DK site if yours is not okay - he has three atm.
.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354097119431?hash=item5271d540c7:g:xrkAAOSwVQZjT9j9
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Golly, that frame has seen some action hasnt it?
The wheels are shocking too aren't they but after refurbing some as bad for the 400, it's surprising what you end up with and I have no doubt that they'll look the biz when done Mick. Really looking forward to seeing those laced and the frame coated up. I'm with Ken on the 'get somone who know's bikes' to do it for you, saves a lot of money in the long run and means there arent any disapointments along the way. Nothing worse than receiving something that doesn't equal what you had in your head or were expecting!
The chap in Bristol who I use bunged every hole, inserted bolts in threads and those he didnt have sizes for he filled with 'Rock wool' durimg the process, not seen that before but worked a treat and dead simple to clean out leaving zero crap behind. Clever!
She's getting there MIck, keep at it buddy, she'll be ace when you've finished her.
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The frame indeed look like it’s past its best. I wonder if the structural integrity is compromised. The frame Ted has identified is of course an American import and may have had an easier life environmentally speaking. On average the American stuff seems to show much less evidence of corrosion.
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The guy i am using has done a lot of bike stuff, his main business is car wheels, does not do other stuff like garden benches. I have just had an hour with the dremmel looking at the worst bits and honestly not as bad as i thought although i discovered a small hole on the rear footrest mount which will need welding, Ken that is a rough bit near the engine mount hole and will need a bit of fettling but not too much of a problem. I am determined to keep the original frame, although many other parts have been swapped he is a bit like Triggers broom, ( only fools and horses Trigger not our Trigger!)Frame and forks, tank and some engine parts original, and i still have the original crankcases to be repaired at a later date. It has become a labour of love to bring Lazarus back and I am determined to finish, or finish me trying!
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Totally get that hope your frame can be saved I always like to have a worst case scenario back up just in case. 👍👍👍
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Reply from TripleS Ted. A 500 frame is £175 plus vat these days.
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Some more progress while waiting for the frame to be powder coated, front wheel rebuilt with new rim and spokes plus bearings etc. Rear hub has been replaced with a re-lined item from Graham as original was cracked, and is all polished and refurbished ready for rebuild when my replacement spokes come. Received some re-chromed items, although some were not originally chrome but do like a bit of extra bling here and there. Quite a few sub assemblies are done ready for the big build so exited to see him coming together at last. Pics to follow from my phone
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Hang on....
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More
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Those wheels & hubs look brilliant.
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I'm doing a front hub as we speak Mick, I know exactly how difficult it is to get any sort of decent result on them, by far the worst casting on the bike, the inner ribbing is especially difficult to get shiny, the bottom of the ribs curve is really poor with small pits everywhere, I'd say that was a really good result on that hub, mine might have been about the same starting. Not done a rear hub as I don't have spoked wheels and I binned all my rear hubs when they cracked.
Few questions, the chain adjuster have odd marks on them, is that reflection or a result of having them re-chromed? One of the bolts at the top is different, I presume the rest are number plate bracket bolts but one has a much longer shoulder, clutch lever pivot bolt? I've had a few of those parts done myself in the past, the rear brake spring will crack the chrome off I'm afraid, chrome doesn't like flexing much, keep an eye on it.
Done the brake rod as well, I'd suggest finding a stainless steel spring and adjuster nut on Ebay, they are available, the nut will lose the chrome as you use a spanner on it, chips the edges, same applies to the spring as the front spring, cracks off. I paired my brake rod with a chrome torque arm as well, looked really trick. Doing it again this time except the rear brake rod is stainless this time, if you haven't got those stainless bolts off the seller on the forum (Mark?) I'd advise doing that. Really nice job he made of them. Saves more rust.
Impressed Mick, it's coming along nicely.
You been grinding the edges of those parts to remove the cast marks Mick? the rear brake pivot pin is really nicely done and I know how poor those edges are, chrome just doesn't like sticking to such poor casting.
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Hey Ken, the chain adjusters is just the reflection, and yes the small bolts are number plate mount, and the long one is a clutch lever. I did wonder if the springs would crack the chrome but time will tell, I am sure i sent a torque arm but seems to be missing. I did not do any real prep, just a bit of wire brushing. I have not polished the hub centre, just wire brush finish.
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Oh Ken which bolts are in stainless? the long engine bolts? I would like some but must have missed that post.
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You may have a problem getting that plated brake pivot through the frame mount
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You may have a problem getting that plated brake pivot through the frame mount
I could not get my spare brake pivot (came with the return spring) to fit into the frame on my 500 with just a tickle of spray paint on it to stop corrosion!
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I had mine plated and it fitted ok in the frame, I also fitted a grease nipple onto the frame running through the frame tube and coming out where the recess is on the pivot pin is. Worked a treat.
The bolts in question Mick were the 2 bolts which hold the torque arm to the bike, special one that runs through the brake plate and the one whihc runs through the flange on the swinging arm, they were made by a member on here called Max, AMX1992
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28777.msg272459.html#msg272459
He's still around, really good quality as well.
Oh IIRC he also did my rear wheel spacers as well Mick, the one inside the sprocket cover and the one next to the brake plate. Well worth dropping him a PM.
Oh BTW, you reminded me that I was restoring a set of chain adjusters some months ago, they were pretty bad, lots of pits etc, came off the bike that I'm doing now and are the original ones that came with the bike, found them again, luckily I'd stored them in a sealed plastic bag but they were still a little rusty after being stripped of chrome and ground to remove the pits, I've now finished one and the other is 95% done, just removing the pits now from the inner surface, not sure why I'm bothering TBH as I'll paint that surface with zinc paint when they are plated so they don't rust anymore but might as well do a good job whilst I'm doing them. They've come out really nice, no more pits and lovely and shiny, they were so bad I just bought 2 news ones to fit but I might as well sell those now. Been busy all week getting steel parts ready for the chromers, just done the torque arm, the front mudguard brace, the horn cover, the chain adjusters and halfway through doing a CB550F chain guard, I prefer the chrome look to that awful plastic one the 500 got, fits the swinging arm if you drill an extra hole in the rear fork area where the axle fits. I usually cut off the middle mount for the 500 chain guard as it's no longer needed. Still got a couple of grab rails to do, some speedo/tacho dishes and possibly my spare swinging arm, was chromed before and I liked the look of it.
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Max made my SS wheel & engine spacers on my 500 plus the brake hub stay fitting. Very pleased with the quality.
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ah yes I did get some spacers off max but not the bolts. the one on the brake plate is a nos one.
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Just got the powder coating back and I am well pleased with it. The frame looks ace compared to before and all the other bits look great too. So engine and frame now together and can start putting bits back on.
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Looks to be a nice finish Mick but it also looks very thickly applied, especially in the close up of the back end. Any problems with fitting parts yet?
The engine bolts look to be made by Middletons Mick, is that correct?
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That's looking great Mick. It's must be a nice feeling to be putting the bike back together.
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Coming together now, Mick. Definitely worth the effort. It must be very satisfying considering what you were presented with.
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I think they did 2 coats with rubbing down but not had any problems yet. Stainless bolts are from middletons as they do the range of sizes with correct threads and heads.
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Looks a fraction better than when you got it
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I like the really shiny black on frame finish, maybe some don't feel it's original enough but something as this one, brought back from near death, is lucky to be getting such care and attention. :)
Nice work all round.
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I recognise the bolt heads on the Middleton bolts, he does 10 metric fine bolts with the correct 14mm heads as well. Oddly enough I found my stash today hiding in a box. I got the 4 for the engine hangers, 4 for the twin calipers and the 2 for the rear suspension lower bolts. The problem being I'm fitting Mazzocchi dampers and they don't fit as they are metric coarse. Might be able to reuse some of the old Middleton bolts from the early 80s that I was forced to fit in the engine as they didn't do 14mm headed bolts back then.
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Having a Potter with Lazarus, and thought you guys would like some before and after shots. Hope you notice the difference! Edit still having trouble with photos
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Picture does end up the right way when you click on it - looking good - nice rear fender.
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Hmm
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Try again
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Thanks Ted, it is a rechromed US spec.
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That frame looks amazing compared with what it looked like originally, great job, I remember getting mine back from the powder coating people, I was scared to touch it, I used pipe insulation to priotect it while I was messing about putting bits back on. Was not impressed when I had to scrape the finish off the earth points either.
Cheers
Dennis
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That's something I hate about Honda, probably not just Honda TBH but as I only restore Hondas I can't comment on other makes. The picture of the engine, shows a massive casting fault on the very front edge of the rocker cover, right under No4 exhaust tappet cover, it seems they'd fit almost anything so long as the paint covered it up. There are faults everywhere, on almost ever part that's been cast, shows they were built to a price, Rolls Royce would never have allowed that sort of thing to pass quality control.
Coming along nicely though Mick.
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Jesus, I’d forgotten how bad is was. No wonder I offered the title ‘Lazarus’. Keep going Mick, this could be one for the record books.
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You have done wonders with that one mate, you deserve a star.
Reminde me what year it is and what colour you are doing it, will tell you why later
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That deserves a prize for THE MOST DETERMINATION TO GET A BIKE REBORN ever.
Incredibly resto and as Phil said,one for the record books, unbelievable job. Huge well done, you must be pleased as punch. I would be![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Some more progress, fitting various smaller parts to frame and now had new tyres fitted so starting to look like a bike again. Anyone else hate fitting tyres? I always take them to a bile shop as I hate it so much!
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The front mudguard is an original uk type with holes for number plate and small holes where stay fits to fork bottoms. however its not as good as i first thought so will buy a new one at some point.
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It's all looking good Mick. Hard to believe it's actually the same pile of scrap you started with, it's looking like new. Great work.
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Some more progress, fitting various smaller parts to frame and now had new tyres fitted so starting to look like a bike again. Anyone else hate fitting tyres? I always take them to a bile shop as I hate it so much!
Hate it too Mick! Gave up on it after putting a small scratch in a new rim!😡
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Not a criticism this Mick, just curious. The fork ears are wearing the reflectors off a K0 BUT the frame is wearing the seat lock off a K1, is that a mistake or have you not been able to source a K0 seat lock or was it unintentional?
Coming on really well though Mick, you should be justifiably proud.
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Thanks guys I am pleased with it up to now. Ken the fork ears are k0 ones I got from America as they were in good condition and reasonable price, and also had the reflectors already on so will keep them. Bike is a UK spec k1 quite a late on reg 1975 I think.
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Mick that looks brilliant - I can't see my 500 getting close to that.
What size are your rear rims are they 185 x 18 or wider do you know what the width of the rear collars were?
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working on the speedo and tacho, trying to make up a decent pair from the originals which were in bad condition like everything else on Lazarus, and a pair I got from Bryan. Tacho has been stripped and lubed and painted ready for re-assembly but struggling to fit the two halfs together. The problem is the sealing rubber between, it is hard to hold it all together to get the chrome ring back on without the rubber getting dislodged. Lots of swearing but no luck yet. Also got a motad exhaust today as the budget does not stretch to £1300 for the original style, maybe later. My partner asked me the dreaded question yesterday, "how much has it cost you?" errr ummm not sure but too much!
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Cut a hole in a piece of ply that the clock top fits through but the chrome ring does not then a rew dabs of superglur to hold the rubber.
Then you can push the base in with one hand leaving the other to try and recrimp the ring
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yes will try that Bryan, already tried glue but not superglue.
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Superglue wont hold for long but should be enough to put it together, i am sure Peter has a better way!
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Spent the bank Holiday in the garage finishing the clock restoration, made a jig as Bryan suggested which helped a lot. A mix of bits from different speeds and tacos to make a decent looking pair.
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Before pic
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You not restored the idiot panel yet Mick?
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Glad the parts worked out for you mate.
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Cheers Bryan the speedo is the one from you, I fixed the loose bit. Ken that's the next job, will probably need a new decal.
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things progressing slowly on Lazarus, doing wiring at the moment which I find tedious but has to be done. Most of the electrical bits were beyond repair when I adopted him, every wire had been bodged badly so have started with a used main loom in decent nick, and am removing all the terminals from the block connectors and replacing them with new ones from vintage connections in America. they do the proper 3.5 mm bullets and double/treble females and lots of other hard to get stuff. I treated myself to a pair of ratcheting crimping pliers from them too, does a good job. There has been some talk about handlebar switches on other threads and that reminded me I needed to sort them out. I have a good used LH with PA switch but am trying to build a RH one from loads of old bits I have in my electrics box. I think I am correct that it has P Lo and Hi markings, is that right? Advice also needed on how to remove the wire from the cut out switch without cutting wire, it has a little semi circular plate which i cant get out. Also the main earth cable to the battery, does it fit on the engine mounting bolt near the clutch cover?
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The earth cable fits over the large bolt coming through the engine, goes under the nut between the bracket and the washer. Don't forget to remove some paint if the frames been powder coated.
P, Lo, Hi is correct as the On/Off is controlled by the extra switch on the bars the K1 was fitted with.
The only way to remove the kill switch plate is to desolder the connections. Then resolder when cleaned up.
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Those pics BTW show 550 handlebar switches not 500 ones.
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Dont forget the paint/coating needs removing from both sides of the mounting plateso the alloy casting and the cable end get good contact.
I think the original RH switch had a line between P and Lo which was actualy the off position, which is why a lot of people fitted the circular on/off to the lh side so that things didnt go dark when dipping
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dammit i have just realised I dont have the top half, all mine are off/p/h, anyone have one to sell? Ken, which pictures are you refering to? Lazarus had some later ones fitted but would prefer the original type.
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Before pic
The bottom pic on that post shows 550 switchgear Mick.
I think the original RH switch had a line between P and Lo which was actually the off position, which is why a lot of people fitted the circular on/off to the lh side so that things didnt go dark when dipping
Only true on the K0 Bryan, the K1 came equipped with the on/off separate switch and they ditched the ability of the R/H switch to turn then lights off.
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managed to get a rh switch of the correct type, but thought i would sort the sump out as the one i had vapour blasted turned out to have a crack at the drain plug, probably caused by over tightening. I have a spare which i think is the original Lazarus one because it has a welded repair in the exact same place. As it looked solid I decided to use it but did a bit of grinding and sanding to make it look better. Now fitted so fill up with oil, now why is oil leaking all over? Oh S##t i forgot the sump plug! What an idiot! 2 ltrs of oil oll over my bench and the floor, what a mess. Will I now be struck off from the SOHC forum or be demoted from expert to newby, or a new category of F-in idiot?
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Oh dear Mick, in someways that's so funny but I would loved to have been a fly on the wall listening to you rant 😊😊😊
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Most of us have done it, I bet. Fair play for owning up! 👏
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managed to get a rh switch of the correct type, but thought i would sort the sump out as the one i had vapour blasted turned out to have a crack at the drain plug, probably caused by over tightening. I have a spare which i think is the original Lazarus one because it has a welded repair in the exact same place. As it looked solid I decided to use it but did a bit of grinding and sanding to make it look better. Now fitted so fill up with oil, now why is oil leaking all over? Oh S##t i forgot the sump plug! What an idiot! 2 ltrs of oil oll over my bench and the floor, what a mess. Will I now be struck off from the SOHC forum or be demoted from expert to newby, or a new category of F-in idiot?
OK Mick, you have qualified for idiot of the day for that one! But don’t worry it will be someone else tomorrow! But will we own up? 🤣🤣
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Tee shirt, video, laughter.
We all done it sometime, same as starting a 500 with alternator cover off and searching for the plug in the oil slick!
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Nice confession. I left my pan euro pean up on bike table with no rear wheel next to garage door. Son came in and one 400 kg bike upside down with no rear wheel on garage floor !
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Not quite the same but when I did a service on my late Mother's Mr Blobby shaped Micra for the first time I jacked up the front - undid the sump plug left it to drain in my catch tray whilst I went for a Cuppa.Re-fitted the sump plug. Pulled out the oil catch tray that was full of lovely perfectly clean oil.
I'd drained the ATF into a waste oil container so had to buy some very expensive Nissan only ATF.
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So continuing with the electrics I have a new battery fitted and starting to connect things up. Not fully assembling for now but checking everything works. I have starter motor, front lights and idiot lights all OK. I tried turning engine over to see if oil pressure light went off but not yet. I recall some discussion about priming the oil pump? Not ready for starting yet as cards need rebuild but getting there slowly. Oh has anyone got a spare positive battery lead for sale as mine is wrong.
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So continuing with the electrics I have a new battery fitted and starting to connect things up. Not fully assembling for now but checking everything works. I have starter motor, front lights and idiot lights all OK. I tried turning engine over to see if oil pressure light went off but not yet. I recall some discussion about priming the oil pump? Not ready for starting yet as cards need rebuild but getting there slowly. Oh has anyone got a spare positive battery lead for sale as mine is wrong.
you should not need to prime a 500 or 550 pump Mick. ;)
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I agree with Trigger on that but did have one that sat for many years and just removed pressure switch and filled using squirty oil can, did bring pressure up quicker
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It’s possible that it was me who asked about oil pump priming. As I recall, I’d read something about using Vaseline, until I was reminded this was associated with the 750 and dry sump systems (thanks trigger). As was stated at the time, “no need to prime wet sump systems” and indeed that proved to be the case.
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I appeared to have a problem getting oil pressure up on my 550 on initial fire up after rebuild, and first oil change. Since changed oil pressure switch and carried out oil pressure checks, so quite sure the switch was faulty.
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It is a new genuine oil pressure switch, and I have taken the tappet cover to see if any oil getting up there but none yet. Oil pump has new seals from nurse Julie.
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Interesting, Mick. Do you have a plan?
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So continuing with the electrics I have a new battery fitted and starting to connect things up. Not fully assembling for now but checking everything works. I have starter motor, front lights and idiot lights all OK. I tried turning engine over to see if oil pressure light went off but not yet. I recall some discussion about priming the oil pump? Not ready for starting yet as cards need rebuild but getting there slowly. Oh has anyone got a spare positive battery lead for sale as mine is wrong.
Take the oil filter off and crank it first, if it doesn't come through there from pump it won't be anywhere else either.
Sometimes, when assembled (engines in general) with assembly oil in components around the motor, it makes a pretty effective seal to give an air lock for a while.
Getting it fully through the pump head and to the filter chamber as verified will usually bring it up slmost instantly with filter and housing back in place.
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You will not get full or a good pressure until the engine is started. The starter motor is only just spinning the motor over ;)
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I am not too worried at the moment but thought cranking over on the starter would at least put oil light off. will see what happens when i get to start it up.
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On my 400 after it's rebuild I cranked it over without spark plugs using the electric starter & the oil light went out pretty quickly bearing in mind it had to fill the oil filter housing.
After that first cranking the oil light went out pretty much immediately using the starter motor - again with no spark plugs fitted.
Thereafter I could get the oil light to go out with no plugs fitted using one stroke of the kickstart - standing overnight might take a second kick.
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I always do the oil test with no cam in and the camchain suspended on a socket bar or screwdriver. It's the last thing I do before buttoning up the engine.
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still working on the electrics, the handlebar switches are temporarily plugged in to test they work before cosmetics are done. So far not too much trouble, needed a couple of new connectors but have working park dip and main beams along with all idiot lights, neutral light works correctly when in/out of gear and full beam and oil light also ok. A couple of questions about harness route near the seat area, the bit that goes from the main loom to the 8 wire connector at the top of the electrics plate, does it go through the space above the plate or to the side then up, will take photo if not clear what i mean, i have seen 2 pics in the manual and seem to contradict each other. also in the same area the wires to coils and brake switch, what exact route should they take? not much slack to play with.
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Just went to look at my K0 as it's never been apart and surprised that it has a 12 way connector. Then looked at the K1 (8 way) that I put together and both go up and between the top of the electrics plate and the frame.
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cheers that seems logical
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Just looked at all my build pictures of 500's and not one had the picture you require. If i get some time today i will dig out a 500K1 for a picture ;)
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[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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cheers Graham thats perfect, i have it wrong which throws everything else out.
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Thanks to Trigger and seabeowner I have re-routed the main harness to the correct position and fits much better. In that same area, the leads that supply the points and rear brakelight switch, do they go over the airbox then down the other side frame tube?. I have re-wrapped parts of the loom so all looking tidy now, and connected the rear light and indicators and started to paint the handlebar switches, etc but the headlamp shell has reacted to the paint so will have to re do it or use another one I have. Also found a positive battery lead of the correct type in my electrics box so fitted that. Feels like I am getting there but slowly, He will live again.
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That regulator is missing a mounting bolt, sack the restorer ;)
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Thanks to Trigger and seabeowner I have re-routed the main harness to the correct position and fits much better. In that same area, the leads that supply the points and rear brakelight switch, do they go over the airbox then down the other side frame tube?. I have re-wrapped parts of the loom so all looking tidy now, and connected the rear light and indicators and started to paint the handlebar switches, etc but the headlamp shell has reacted to the paint so will have to re do it or use another one I have. Also found a positive battery lead of the correct type in my electrics box so fitted that. Feels like I am getting there but slowly, He will live again.
If you have taken a photo of your correct wiring harness route that would be handy for when I fit mine if you could post it here or send me a copy by e-mail if you want to avoid full scrutiny.
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Still working on electrics, most things back in place. I am using some indicators i have in my spares, just picking the best condition ones to use for now. Does anyone rechrome indicator bodies or would it be easier/better/cheaper to buy from silvers.
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The metal they are made from barely qualifies at being described as metal. Buy new, it's cheaper.
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Still working on electrics, most things back in place. I am using some indicators i have in my spares, just picking the best condition ones to use for now. Does anyone rechrome indicator bodies or would it be easier/better/cheaper to buy from silvers.
They don't re chrome well Mick. Part number 33401-292-003 has now been superseded to 33401-341-701 and Sliver is not cheap at nearly £ 30 per base ;)
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Lazarus is still fighting me, had to open up the loom again as had an intermittent fault on side/rear light circuit, had a break internally so replaced wire, now ok. My new headlamp rim is proving a bit tricky to assemble, its the repro from silvers. Had to come away and have a coffee as getting frustrated, will attack again soon.
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You must be having a bad day Mick. Must of fitted over 50 of those DSS head light rim kits, usually a 10 minute job ;)
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Yes Graham I have had them before and been ok, it was the adjuster screw and spring didn't line up so had to bend the bracket to make it fit. Now not fitting in the shell very well so will leave it for another day. Decided to set ignition timing but now only sparking on 2/3, not sure if coil faulty or some other problem. Oh and no power from safety switch on handlebar. Definitely a bad day! On the other hand oil lamp going out when I spin engine over and did get a couple of pops from engine so there is some life there somewhere.
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You’re getting into the exciting stuff now Mick, considering what you started with. Once you sort out the niggles with the wiring you’ll have a runner!
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This bike will be the death of me! Thought i would do something simple so fit the l/h engine cover with clutch mechanism and cable. Not going well, all seems ok but when i try to adjust the cable it seems to lock up and not return, the clutch slips when i use kickstart.If i then remove cover the clutch returns to normal. I am using new cable and clutch rod and have tried a couple of different spiral actuators so at a loss what to check next?
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Try undoing the lock nut for the large slotted worm drive, turn this clockwise IIRC, make sure the inner worm drive doesn't move. It should be just tensioned by the return spring on it. I suspect the inner drive is too far out so you need to retract it by moving the outer drive.
Harder to write than it is to do.
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I've not reached that point yet Mick, I can see what Ken means though. I'm assuming you have shimmed the clutch basket beforehand.
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Ken I have adjusted the outer slot as per manual, then taken up the cable slack with the cable adjuster. At first it seems OK but seems to lock in the clutch disengaged position even if I release play on the cable. Clutch basket was shimmed.
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Do you have the clutch cover off to see what is going on Mick. I have never come across this before ;)
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Take the cover off Mick and take a picture of the insides, see if we can spot what the problem.
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Did you fit the ball bearing inside the spiral drive? Been wracking my brains what this could be and with no ball bearing it could be the spiral drive hangs out of the housing when the clutch is pulled and it’s this which is jamming it open.
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Well i have found the problm, it turned out to be the new cable of all things. The plastic liner was damaged and was not allowing the clutch mech to release and I didn't spot it as it was hidden under the rubber boot inside the cover. Will order a new one and keep plodding on. Thanks for the advice guys.oh what route should cable take is pic correct?
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Well i have found the problm, it turned out to be the new cable of all things. The plastic liner was damaged and was not allowing the clutch mech to release and I didn't spot it as it was hidden under the rubber boot inside the cover. Will order a new one and keep plodding on. Thanks for the advice guys.oh what route should cable take is pic correct?
When you say "hidden under the rubber boot inside the cover" I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying - is there some sort of boot between the end of the clutch cable and the inside of the cover?
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Well i have found the problm, it turned out to be the new cable of all things. The plastic liner was damaged and was not allowing the clutch mech to release and I didn't spot it as it was hidden under the rubber boot inside the cover. Will order a new one and keep plodding on. Thanks for the advice guys.oh what route should cable take is pic correct?
Sometimes it is just the simplest things ;)
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Yes Graham it's always the simple things that drive you crazy and take ages! Ted, the clutch cable enters the sprocket cover and the open part of the inner cable is covered by a little rubber cover. So on the inside of the cover. The boot was covering the snag on the cable so I thought it was the clutch mech that was sticking.
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Makes sense I guess to keep water etc out.
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I have sorted the motad exhaust so now moving on to the carbs. I have 2 sets including the originals and will see which ones are best to use. I could not resist squirring some carbon cleaner in the air intakes and turning it over, and for a couple of glorious seconds Lazarus breathed for the first time in 20 plus years!
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You should get one good set out of the two ;)
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The first set is stripping down ok appart from some stuck parts but all gave in with heat and persistence. Having a rest and coffee atm!
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You need to extend that bracket, or put one the other side to stopncentre stand hitting chain
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Bryan it does extend below exhaust so will make some provision for stand.
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In between cleaning carbs I have been refurbishing a horn I got from Andy c101 on this forum.it was off a different model and had poor chrome and the wrong bracket.i already had another horn in good nick chrome wise but the plastic trumpet was missing so I wondered if it was possible to transfer the chrome bit and bracket over. Turns out it is with a bit of care, it has to be levered off some little crimped areas and refitting is a pain including a screwdriver stabbing my hand! Back on bike and looks the part.
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Looks good Mick. ;)
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The original carbs were not too bad compared to the rest of poor Lazarus, after a few rounds with the ultrasonic cleaner and carb cleaner now being re-assembled using original brass and new rubbers from Nurse Julie. If things go to plan today I might go for a start up, just need that bit of encouragement to keep pushing to complete the last bits of rebuild. Always something else to do or spend on but nearly there!
If i do start it I will try to video it for your entertainment!
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Keep at it Mick, you will get finished in the end ;)
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Always exciting when it comes to first start up! Even if we always have that little bit of trepidation. 😳😳
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Hope the first start up goes to plan Mick it will be rewarding when it does.
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Check the points wires have not become disconnected in the rubber boot by the rear brake light switch, caught me out more than once
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Carb rebuild going a bit slowly still hoping today or possibly tomorrow.
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dammit ran out of time today, carbs took longer than i thought, maybe tomorrow.
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LAZARUS LIVES!!!! Finished the carb rebuild except for a couple of small bits, have not polished the outer parts yet as was impatient to get it going. I rigged up my temporary fuel tank with some bits of old pipe, and fitted new spark plugs. The coils are the originals and are a bit crusty so will need some attention but worked well enough for now. I did do a video as promised but having trouble uploading it, will try again. anyway, to cut a long story short it started, and first time! A genuine first time with no hesitation, I am so chuffed.
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Well done, with what you started from i would go and buy a lottery ticket!
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Well done Mick, that is great news. I bet you're well chuffed.
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Brilliant😁😁😁
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Great result Mick ;)
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Nice one pal. Looking forward to seeing the video. Put it on YouTube and just post the URL on here.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
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yes to say I am pleased is an understatement. Struggling to get my video from phone to laptop and cant seem to upload from my phone either. Maybe the file is too big but not an expert on computers. did try all gears with engine running and all there. will try youtube.
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Well done Mick, bet you were well chuffed, particularly from your original starting point - and in great time too! I always do a photo album for all my builds and from your starting point, would really demonstrate the amount of work you've put into this rebuild
Sent from my moto g(50) using Tapatalk
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managed to put on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOScVJ4W2fs
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Plenty of oil up there Mick.
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Well done Mick, what a change👍
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Well done Mick. Sounds sweet!
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Great video - love the oil splash out if the cam cover.👍👍👍
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Messy checking oil isnt it!
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Excellent progress, sounds sweet too as many vid have them like a bag-o-spanners.
Amazed at your tenacious working through, from what was quite a state originally.
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Excellent work Mick, sounds good too. 👍
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Congratulations- superb that it started so easily - loved hearing your reaction
Great to have this result after all your hours of work
David
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managed to put on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOScVJ4W2fs
Little advise Mick, take a tappet cover of number 1 as well, to see you have oil on both sides.
Sounds like a sweet running engine.
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have been working on the carbs, all ok internally but doing a cosmetic externally. I have removed the operating rod, and is in very good condition unlike most. I need to sort the pin that stops the movement side to side and was thinking a suitable screw but only seems about 2mm. What do you guys use?
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Ken told me he taps a thread in the hole then reduces a screw to suit.
I have an old carb air screw that might do the trick on mine - not sure of the thread.
Depending on how big the drill out is M4 looks about right on mine.
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Carb air screw is a possibility but maybe a bit big.
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Cut down to suit?
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I use these Mick.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313583380550?var=612402648482 M5 10mm.
The end is still too big to fit into the slot on the shaft so I fit it into a drill and spin it up whilst holding a file against the end, as they are brass they file down quite easily. I keep checking to see when it fits inside the slot.
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slow but steady progress, carbs are all looking good, I used a 3mm screw with the end filed down as per kens advice and all fitted with rubbers etc all standard although ordered a couple of new clamps to be fitted later. Seat is now on, it is an original in very good condition that I got from ebay, a guy was selling it with some carbs and a front mudguard so I bid him for all three together and he accepted my price, I reckon if he left the auction running he would have made more. The mudguard is an original 1970s one with holes for a front number plate, in good nick apart from some corrosion under a stay but not visible. I did re-chrome the seat strap fittings as I didnt like the repro ones I had before, although I did buy a set to get some new screws and they look a better shape now. Also needed a new plunger and a seat lock, both genuine items. will put some pics up from my phone.
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Here are some pics
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More, under seat and carbs before restoration and the original ones.
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Looking back to the start you must be chuffed to bits with the build. 👍👍👍
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Get in, we’ll done Mick, superb news. Hats off to you mate, what a transformation!
![](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji6.png)
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Those carb to manifold rubbers don't look right Mick.
I did some on Grommitdogs bike earlier this year. When the engine was revved you could see them pulsing and the carbs moving back and too as they did so. The weight of the carbs also bend them down. Genuine ones don't look like that, they are sort of plastic looking and will support the carbs with no problem. Are they DS replacements?
If you need some I have loads spare somewhere.
If that's the clutch cable going over the throttle cables that's routed wrong and will cause problems.
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Hi Ken, I think the rubbers are original ones as I didn't use DS ones this time. The clutch cable is the wrong one supplied as far too long so probably US style high handle bars. The cable I got from silvers was chap and caused sticking clutch so not keen on getting another. Not sure where to source another.
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came to fit the repro top brake hose and it turns out to be the long version for US style bars and Silvers dont do the shorter one. any suggestions for a supplier, i would prefer the rubber original type.
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Try Wemoto or Burtons Bike Bits. HEL do a black braided hose that looks like a period one.
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Our local auto parts shop (Romac) that closed during the Covid Era had an aftermarket flexi-hose parts book where they would identify the type of end connectors. From this data they would find the closest hose length that would fit almost anything.
Appears braided versions are also available looking on flea bay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163529190068?hash=item2613196ab4:g:stcAAOSwm-FcR5Rk&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8M1XKOaZx2epfPpy1N38Cr58NH2S5grkGiKbt7wo7Y4y1Ui%2BrjEwIJbjvTqkNg19S%2By6S0KpknyjFg8eirDK7Uz5CcFArhWcUfnUskk4%2F7nCrBtW%2BDKpCeWscnrYzMs%2Bbz5VXQ9itldCwSSjCBl4pWwtmJ8oK1e6pw%2BZllSLgxRgQPFOBdDG57W5Q0jlrZ1ODmaUoKR9zS6PkyBpHI5kWnFmClXzwyAncCt0LyYBQ3elhHL%2FrpurTfNzh4baS5h6QXq368z1csscYiJJAEGC6r8jLE%2FO%2BGIiQT4T%2Fou4XFfCtxdsNiqbuzbU%2FiC5bndCfw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMzo2Atuhi
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tried a local hydraulics company and they are able to shorten it and fit a new end.
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as it turned out they could not fit new end so made me a braided one for £15 and when fitted is hardly seen so no problem. what was a problem was bleeding the brake, always puzzles me it always takes ages to sort out on a single caliper system yet on a car one with tandem systems and 4 wheels it seems easier. tried all the recommendations on here and eventually got it sorted. All rebuilt master and caliper with silicone fluid. Got him off the bench for the first time and actually moved under his own steam for about a meter, will try up driveway when it stops raining. one thing i did notice was first gear clicks in very smoothly without a big clunk so must have done the gearbox correctly.now need a uk style clutch cable as the one fitted is miles too long.
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The Honda master cyl is a lot different from car ones and usually needs bench bleeding before it will work properly
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as its sunny in scunny at the moment I have taken Lazarus outside to run him down the drive. Almost there mechanicaly just clutch cable to sort and chainguard to fit, also exhaust mount bracket for the motad exhaust kindly donated by Graham and Julie. then painting the tank and side panels, both original parts. Also got some stickers from Piki for the tank and other warnings to finish off the look. will upload a link to youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Zjh2YbcsM
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I see you have routed your throttle cables down the right hand side of the frame (like mine) - bike looks brilliant in the video.
Looks like you did not cross your clutch cable through the coil hole in the frame was there a reason for this?
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Hi Ted, thats the wrong cable for the high bars i have had the same issues as you with three different lengths so just temporary until i source another. the one i got from silvers had the nylon lining as per original but caused a problem as liner was damaged and made the clutch stick so loath to get another. I always route the throttle cables on the right and don't think i will put clutch through coil hole.
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Only slight benefit that I can see in routing the clutch cable through the coil frame hole is it drops it at a nice angle into the carbs depending on what coils you have. Looking again it might be best as is.
My cheap Wemoto cable is the DB's for a neat fit it has no spare loops anywhere - clutch action feels like it is working ok.
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working on the petrol tank, rubbed down to bare metal and primed. Was de rusting the inside but has revealed a hole in the bottom of tank. A bit cheesed off cos it looked solid so will have to decide how to proceed, repair or replace, damn it.
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Lazarus continues to resist, still not sure what to do about the tank, was looking at the ones on ebay from India as brand new is tempting, has anyone any experience of them? Still having a problem with the clutch operation, originally fitted an OEM from Silvers but caused a problem releasing as the nylon liner was damaged. tried one from ebay which worked ok but was far too long so got another silvers one and still having trouble. Before fitting to bike but fitted to operating mechanism in cover it seems to operate correctly but when i fit to engine things seem to lock up and i cant get any adjustment on cable. I had loosened off the main adjuster on chain cover and pushrod is new, everything is greased up and free. Its very frustrating, any ideas?
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Tank, have you got an old school radiator repair shop local, they may be able to solder patch(s) on.
Clutch the mechanism can be very finicky as is the adjustment, the was a bulletin on adjustement, shoul be in ashs dropbox, cable routing is vital, pdi and build list should also be in dropbox.
This sort of problem is one that is probably an easy fix in person but impossible at distance!
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Hi Bryan, did think about the radiator place, will make enquiries. I thought I would do a couple of easy jobs today but not working out that way! back into the garage I go!
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Ball bearing in the clutch adjuster Mick?
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yes Ken I got a new one to make sure. I seem to have sorted it, i turned the main adjuster fully in and left it in that position instead of backing it off as per manual. Also the threaded adjuster at handlebar end was a little tight and was snagging on the nylon inner cable so filed that down, still think the plain cables are better. Had to walk away as getting frustrated today, I will return to battle tomorrow!
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not much happening as I have been ill for a couple of weeks, but still struggling with the front brake bleeding. all new or refurbished, hoses rubber seals etc but just will not bleed. I have tried all the usual methods with syringes but no luck so getting really frustrated, even dismantled master cylinder in case i did something wrong.
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Bleed the master before connecting pipe.
Wearing gloves put finger over outlet hole and pull lever in release and reaply finger let lever go and reapply, repeat till pressure is felt under finger then whilst lever is held in use your third hand to fit and tighten hose and banjo bolt then try blleding at caliper.
This can take a while but has never failed for me, also cover everything you dont want fluid on!
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not much happening as I have been ill for a couple of weeks, but still struggling with the front brake bleeding. all new or refurbished, hoses rubber seals etc but just will not bleed. I have tried all the usual methods with syringes but no luck so getting really frustrated, even dismantled master cylinder in case i did something wrong.
Hope you're feeling better Mick. Did you fit a new pressure switch?. The reason I ask is that we bought a couple from David Silver last year and they were faulty. Graham almost sent himself doolally trying to bleed a front brake, all new parts and refurbed like yours, he kept swapping parts again and again with no luck. When he fitted the old switch, it bled up instantly. He tried the DS switch again on another bike and the same thing happened again, the system would not bleed. .
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Hi Bryan I did try that method but didn't seem to build up any pressure.
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Hi Julie, am feeling a bit better until my garage roofing felt went AWOL in the wind last night! It's the original pressure witch so hope that's not it.
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Try this Mike. Only really works with rubber hoses not braided.
Get a brake clamp or failing that a pair of mole grips, clamp the rubber hose near the joint at the bottom yoke, before the joint not after. Try pumping the MC now, if it's solid then the problem lies below where you've clamped, if not the force will tend to blow any airlock back through the MC, you'll see bubbles appearing in the reservoir. When it's solid move the clamp down to below the bottom yoke, test again.. If solid, the problem is in the caliper. Now release the pressure on the clamp until you can just about pump the lever, this will force fluid past the clamp but not allow it back up the pipe. In this way you can force the caliper to fill up, release the bleed nipple a little to allow any trapped air to escape.
Never failed to work but as I said an only be done with rubber hoses, never tried it with braided as I was worried it would damage the braiding, it may work though
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If bleeding at the master gets no pressure you will never bleed the full system i have had it take over 30 mins of trying before first pressure and then more to squirt forcibly.
You my be better off with one of Mr Silvers repo ones
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As already noted, but version of the mc bleed, with banjo disconnected at mc, lid off, fill with fluid and it should just run out of banjo port without any lever movement at all.
If it doesn't leak out like this with lever in "home" position, then unlikely to fill the line easily when bleeding.
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A couple of small victories today. The brake bleeding saga was solved by a new repro from silvers, still took a while but bled in the conventional way and a firm lever now. Also did a soldered repair on the tank, as the hole was only 2-3 mm it seems to be ok. De-rusting tank with phosphoric acid ready for paint, almost there!
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While de-rusting the tank it revealed several more small holes around the reinforcing area where the rear tank mounting is. I have soldered them but still getting a small leak from somewhere inaccessible so am going to use a liner. Not ideal but it's my only option.
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Maybe safer when it’s a little “peppered” like that. Nothing more annoying than getting it all painted and finding further leaks!
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the problem with the lining process is flash rusting before I can dry the tank out to line it. will try today.
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Race between heat and rust!😳 Hot water flush might speed up the drying?
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Some more progress, tank has been lined with a two pack liner and painted with a layer of clear, then the stripes applied. Will lacquer over in next few days and finish the side panels. Almost there!
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I used phosphoric acid to strip mine after first using electrolysis, it's meant to stop flash rusting. I'll be honest I've not looked at it in a while😬
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Exciting times, tank is painted and back on bike, one side panel has to be re done as I screwed it up. Some final things to do, chainguard is one of them as the original one is bent out of shape. I do have a 550 f chrome one but the chrome is beyond repair, but would paint up ok so might use that. Today I insured it so on the road soon!
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Ooooh, how exciting Mick, hope all goes well.
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Exciting times Mick, looking back on your thread this was a major resto!
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Keep finding small problems, the petrol tank cap clip, the bit that holds the cap shut, i broke it trying to fit the tiny spring. I cant work out how the spring is fitted, if anyone can show a close up pick it might help. Will be changing to historic and taxing it shortly, I already have the v5 in my name so should be able to do it at the post office, Nurse Julie can you confirm?
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Yes Mick, just tick the box to change taxation class to Historic, take it to Post Office, they will give you a receipt for £zero paid for 12 months road tax, from that minute on, it's all legal to ride. V5 will come back from DVLA in a few weeks.
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You will need insurance and to fill in mot exemption form, some offices understand you dont need the form but its easier to do it just in case,V112 i think, you can download it but too big to attach even though only 1 page
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You will need insurance and to fill in mot exemption form, some offices understand you dont need the form but its easier to do it just in case
You don't need insurance to change it to Historic Bryan, unless you live in Northern Ireland, but I know Mick has insurance anyway. MOT exemption form not needed either, the post office just throw them in the bin, as its known that if its eligible for Historic, it became MOT exempt a year earlier on its 40th Birthday.
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Last time i did one at my local.office they insisted on it, but then they also had to look up "historic" so that says a lot
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Last time i did one at my local.office they insisted on it, but then they also had to look up "historic" so that says a lot
😂😂😂😂😂.
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Just because it is historic doesn't mean that all vehicles are MOT exempt. They also need not to be substantially changed. It's on the renewal each year, but surely you have to guarantee that also on the first time.
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In my experience some Post Offices do the Taxation change some fail - I had to do it via DVLA despite what the website says about doing it at a Post office. I didn't even try the PO for my 500 straight to DVLA.
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lazarus is now legal, the post office sorted out the historic status no problem so all taxed and ready. I did take a mot exemption form and she did ask to see it but all sorted in 5 mins. if it stays dry over weekend i will have a little ride to see how it goes, wish me luck!
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lazarus is now legal, the post office sorted out the historic status no problem so all taxed and ready. I did take a mot exemption form and she did ask to see it but all sorted in 5 mins. if it stays dry over weekend i will have a little ride to see how it goes, wish me luck!
Good news. 👍
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Nice one Mick, good luck with the ride.
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lazarus is now legal, the post office sorted out the historic status no problem so all taxed and ready. I did take a mot exemption form and she did ask to see it but all sorted in 5 mins. if it stays dry over weekend i will have a little ride to see how it goes, wish me luck!
Nice one with a PO that know what they are doing - weather for a test ride does not look promising where I live. ;D :( :( :(
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A very exciting moment coming up after a 2021 start to Lazarus. Take a screwdriver to twiddle the air jets on the road if needed and enjoy …..👍
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So Lazarus has had his first outing for 30 years and threw in a couple of snags to sort out. He cut out a couple of times at traffic lights with what felt like fuel starvation and isn't charging either. All gears engage ok and clutch works but speedo not working at all.
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So Lazarus has had his first outing for 30 years and threw in a couple of snags to sort out. He cut out a couple of times at traffic lights with what felt like fuel starvation and isn't charging either. All gears engage ok and clutch works but speedo not working at all.
Well done Mick, that's not a bad snagging list really, considering you have resurrected Lazarus.
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Considering all the work you did on the gearbox it must be pleasing to have it working well. Doesn’t sound like much serious to sort either👍
apart from the occasional stall did the engine run as you’d eexpect ?
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Hi Dave, engine seemed to run well except a slight hesitation, only went about 3 miles though due to the fuel issue. charging battery then will look into the issues and try again.
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This engine hesitation is a prevalent annd elusive problem with some counterintuitive solutions. See my rebuild thread, partially restored cb550 ,with some links and much more info on this. In particular though the problem looks like weak mixture unscrewing the mixture above 2 turns got rid of my hesitation, though I do have a delkevich 4 into 1 fitted.
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I would not worry too much about a hesitation until I had a hundred miles under my belt. Then look at spark plugs colours etc etc.
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Well done Mick. I would get the charging fixed and then take it for a run on some quiet roads and avoiding traffic lights and see what develops.
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Mick if you have a charging issue I think the weakest link is the connections out of the alternator itself, I've been lucky up to now I only had output voltage issues from my regulator.
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First thing I will check is the wiring Ted as I had to join some of the wires due to them being cut by the previous torturer of this poor bike.
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That's a great result Mick. Well done for saving it from the skip and getting another sohc back on the road. Those niggles really are minor considering what you started with👍
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I had to join some of the wires due to them being cut by the previous torturer of this poor bike.
Looking at your starting point on Page 1 Mick the term torturer seems mild - attempted murderer seems more fitting.
You have come a long way since November 2021 - it must be very rewarding to have ridden it at last.
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had to do some gardening today, yuk I hate it, so not much time in garage. had a quick look at the alternator wires and seem ok but will check further. I also have an issue with the petrol tap dripping when turned off. I know this can be due to the sealing washers on the screws so ordered the genuine honda ones at great cost. as i remember they were a thick fibre or plastic, but the ones supplied now are normal looking fibre ones like you can buy for pennies. still leaked so used 2 per screw, still leaks. The carbs must be good as no leaks from then when tank mounted so will try again. I also chipped the tank taking it off, dammit.
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Like Ted said, I just had a look back to page 1 pictures. Sorry Mick but I'm going to have to get you certified under the Mental Health Act. Jeez that was rough with a capital R. Well done mate.
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had a couple of hours on the charging issue, wires seem to be ok so tried to test using the info in the manual. Getting inconsistent results using multimeter, I am not confident with amps and ohms etc so may be user error. Tried to check the rectifier with same inconsistency, quite often the reading is zero or jumps around a lot. I have another alternator but wires are also cut, i tested that one and results are equal between yellow wires so might try using that one. I am testing the voltage at the battery when running and assume it should rise to 13/14 volts when revved? It does not go up at all, what should I do next?
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Check the rectifier/regulator.
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I tried to check rectifier but not getting any readings, I do have a spare so will try that one. I hate electrics!
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Mick, if that doesn't do the trick do you have any electrical wizard mates nearby who can help?
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Are you by any chance using a fully charged AGM battery. If you are, the charging probably won't cut in until the battery gets down to about 12.4 volts. Makes it look like the charging isn't working. There's a way of testing that explained in my CB750K5 restoration thread. Spent a whole day on mine pulling everything apart just to find there was nothing wrong in the first place.
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hi Roy its a yuasa normal lead acid type battery. I am now looking for an idiots guide to using a multimeter, watch this space.
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Mick, if you can wait till thurzday night (after 8) you can ring me on 07795162623 and i will explain it to you, especially if you have the rec and meter in your hands
That should read after 8, i hate dumfones!!!!!!
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It will still happen if your battery is fully charged even on a lead acid type.
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Thanks Bryan might take you up on that. Some progress with the rectifier, I didn't realise if it didn't read one way round one way try the other way round. This shows now as ok.
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Looking again at alternator, the original one that came with the bike and the wires had been cut so put terminals on and extended wires to proper connector block. Thing is I dont get any readings at all at the multi connector but if i disconnect the wires at the joints I do get a result so maybe a faulty wire? The only spare I have also has the wires cut so no better. More investigation needed.
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Did you scrape the varnish off the windings wire before you soldered?
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I joined the wires under the sprocket cover
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Go to Ash's emporium and look up the 3 phase charging system document that explains how the whole system works, plus ring me tonight and i will give you some testing to do
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This morning I rechecked the connections and found a bad contact, sorted that then checked the voltage regulator which turned out to be ok, even tried a spare with no luck. the battery seems to hover around 11.5 volts when engine is running and does not increase with revs. rectifier tests out ok, again tried a spare with no change. not sure what to do next, any ideas?
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What is the voltage across the battery terminals with the ignition off?
Looks as if the alternator is not putting out any charge for it to drop to 11.5 volts when running.
I know now't about testing the alternator itself even after I have read the manual. In my case Impedence is a measure of my Ignorance.
Addendum:
I have had experience of electrical windings as in the coils/field windings absorbing damp and even recovering over time as they dry out. I know it's the often repeated mantra but good earthing & good electrical connections are a must.
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I've been lucky and all my rebuilds have charged fine. But your problem is not uncommon.
The goto in the US is Twotired.
Link to his post.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=118474.0
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I am at work now and tomorrow night if you want to ring, after that not till next friday
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I seem to have sorted the charging issue, nothing wrong with the major components but on going through the wiring I did find a couple of loose connections. Once redone it now charges up to 13+ volts with revs. One more step forwards. I do have a small oil leak underneath the engine which may come from oil drain plug but difficult to see as the oil runs and drips off sump.will have another ride soon to see if any more snags crop up.
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Brilliant Mick, another step towards trouble free summer cruising.😃👍
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Check gearchange shaft seal
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Check gearchange shaft seal
That made me smile Bryan when I filled my 500 with oil after the rebuild I somehow forgot to fit the seal - boy did it leak after a few minutes.
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all dry under the sprocket cover, all new seals etc.
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Possible bad drain plug threead, bad washer(alloy) of cracked sump pan, you need to clean off totally and find where exactly comming from im afraid
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Hey Bryan, the sump pan had been repaired before an fitted with a smaller drain plug so might be the culprit.
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Could be porous weld, same sump 500/550 all way through so should be spares about, i may even have one but cant get into my garage till i fix the door, do have a 550 bottom end in the car i will see if it has a sump.on it for you tonight
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Dont worry Bryan I have a spare if I need it.
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Lazarus is having a difficult birth. Can not get him to run for more than a mile or so before he gives up the ghost. Feels like fuel starvation, tried on main and reserve with same result. Tap has been rebuilt an tank cap is new. Also had a new plug go off so only 3 cyls until I put new plug in although the spark is not great looking when checked against the cylinder head. Coils are not great so might get some new ones as don't feel confident to do the Ash fix. Going to check fuel flow this afternoon and go from there. The only positive thing to come out of breaking down is a couple of people stopped to check I was OK and liked the bike!
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Have you still got points or is it electronic?
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Hi Bryan I am on points. Just checked my fuel flow and discovered there is an airlock in tank.when fuel turned on no petrol came out of the tap until I opened the cap. The cap is brand new from silvers but maybe the vent hole is blocked? I have put my old one back to try. Also trying to vac sync my carbs but no 3 not playing ball, adjustment of screw does not seem to have any effect.hope to get a bit of time to experiment over weekend.
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I had same problem. Took the cap apart - some kind of seal,had shifted and was blocking vent hole
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well that went well, not. Left the ignition on overnight, charged up and went for a short ride and going better and kept going until i stopped to investigate a noise ( chain catching on centre stand ) and then would not start. Also clutch slipping very badly. My partner had to come and jump me off ( no tittering at the back!). ho hum more to do, although its the original clutch so probably well past its best.
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More likely the worm mechanism stif or cable route, i severely abused a 500 clutch for years making it slip at take off but was still in spec and if used normaly worked fine
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I did wonder about the adjuster, will check it out, cheers Bryan
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They can crack and bind, the outer that is
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Still having issues with the clutch, slips badly if i feed the gas in too quick. stripped the clutch down and does not seem bad as in the plates not too thin. However the springs are longer than the manual states, but would that make it slip? I would have thought it would be the opposite. I do have another clutch I can try, and that has the shorter springs. At least I had a ride out and got home without an unplanned stop.
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My original 500 used to slip like buggery on take off if useing a handfull of throttle taking several hundred yards(old english measurment) before stopping, never wore out and gave up worrying about it
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My original 500 used to slip like buggery on take off if useing a handfull of throttle taking several hundred yards(old english measurment) before stopping, never wore out and gave up worrying about it
Doesn’t help when trying to wheelie!😂
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Never managed a wheelie on the 500, but i was 21 stone at the time!
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Never managed a wheelie on the 500, but i was 21 stone at the time!
More than happy with both wheels firmly on the ground these days!😁
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Still having issues. I put another clutch in and it is better but still seems to slip at higher revs. It's adjusted correctly and works smoothly. I did replace the springs with the correct length as the originals were extra long. Would using longer springs make it less likely to slip? Cable is new and correctly routed. Also not running right, when pulling away from a standstill it has a bad flat spot and will almost stall unless I give it loads of revs. Had a quick look at the plugs and very sooty. Carbs have been cleaned and synchronised. Engine sounds a little flat when accelerating, not sure what to do next.
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Points gap and timing first
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I managed to get rid of that pull away bogging on mine by leaning off the air screws.
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Will re check timing but was spot on, will keep looking.
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From the plug colour it does seem like its possibly rich enough to knock the edge off response and crispy-ness.
Worthwhile turning the idle adjust screws out half turn ...... to judge if there's significant change or not .... as experiment and investigate evaluation.
Quick and easy to assess effect, free too :)
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so I have gone back to basics, timing is perfect with new Honda points, and reset the valve clearances. There is an occasional spit through the exhaust so I have taken the carbs off to clean again and check float heights. only done one carb up to now, but float was wrong and also the needle was set in the second to bottom groove, am I correct it should be second from the top? that would explain the richness. Carbs are 627b mains 100 slow 40s.
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I seem to remember middle notch for needle which is 3rd from either end
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Both my 400 & 500 needle clip is in the middle position 3 counting from either end.
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Mine are middle notch which is what the often posted chart says.
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OK will try them in centre groove, thanks all. I must admit I am not enjoying this snagging process as I have not been able to have a proper ride yet. Hopefully get there soon.
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had a little time today as Luna the dog is recovering well from her operation and can be left unsupervised for a while. I decided to replace the clutch plates with new EBC items and also changed the springs for some H/D ones I had. Snag is I thought I had a spare gasket but that is a 550 and is slightly different. the old one would probably go again but dont want to do the job again. I have had the carbs apart and put the needle clip in the centre groove and made sure things were clean in there, once the clutch is back together will try it out and report back.