Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: hunterso on February 15, 2014, 07:18:46 PM
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Hi Gents
Have decided too pull the back wheel to replace the sprocket and have noticed a couple of issues.
There is quite a lot of movement on the sprocket hub/flange behind the bearing retainer ring.
So much so, that the sprocket side plate is wearing a groove in the collar that holds the oil seal.
Feels like the retainer ring needs to snug up a bit more but it seems tight
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/2A91E2D9-84BC-4D89-9FC7-6006F39DF2EF_zpsttza9vb5.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/2A91E2D9-84BC-4D89-9FC7-6006F39DF2EF_zpsttza9vb5.jpg.html)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/A8CFDDE7-5ED8-421C-B9BB-AF168C5E781A_zpsusy2lew2.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/A8CFDDE7-5ED8-421C-B9BB-AF168C5E781A_zpsusy2lew2.jpg.html)
You can see the movement in the above 2 pics - look at he gap at the top part of the ring.
The gap opens if i push the top of the sprocket.
It would appear that when under load the sprocket would be pulled down, allowing the sprocket cover plate to contact the collar and wear a groove into it
Can anyone confirm that the correct retainer ring is installed as all the others i have seen have 4 holes - this has 2
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/79C0D492-9A55-46D6-A047-C90583D8CD63_zpslduxjtp9.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/79C0D492-9A55-46D6-A047-C90583D8CD63_zpslduxjtp9.jpg.html)
Any tips for removing the ring (the tools i see being sold have 4 prongs) - and i take it this is a left hand thread - right = loosen
I need to get this off to see if there is anything amiss inside
Anyone got a decent spare retainer ring hanging around?
Can anyone shed any light on what's going on - all help very much appreciated
thanks
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Could well be knackered cush drive rubbers, over the years they harden and shrink, which would allow the symptoms you are describing. The retainer ring doesn't look like a standard part, but it's purpose is to hold the wheel bearing in place ;D
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That would make sense - need to get the retainer ring off to check it out.
Any tips for removal without a proper tool - don't just want to start hitting it with a drift.
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I just drift mine out. Took me a while to find out that it was a left hand tread and when you put it back in, if you do it too tight it stops the bearing from rotating because the axle collar is pressing on the inside of the bearing. And the bearing retainer puts pressure on the outside if tight.
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mine had 4 holes when I changed bearings in mine
used 2 studs welded to bit of rod ... bit of a home made tool but cant recall where I put it
was left hand thread
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/rearretainer002_zps9634da92.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/rearretainer002_zps9634da92.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/rearhubemptyhub_zps464c08e2.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/rearhubemptyhub_zps464c08e2.jpg.html)
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could try 2 bolts through a bit of plate
bit like this
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/tool_zps11bc747b.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/tool_zps11bc747b.jpg.html)
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Don't forget to drill the stakes out before you try and remove it.
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I certainly needed to take a drill to mine.
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On my bike I even tried welding a steel bar to the retainer and it wouldn't work - I ended up making a special jig to hold the hub in the lathe to re line the brake with the bearings in situ. I hope I never need to do the bearings, if I do I think I'll be practicing turning left hand threads on my lathe.
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Pattern ones are available, exact copies of the original (4 holes) from cmsl, but it' 57 euros (ouch!) Dave Silver may be worth a try for a pattern one
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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Hmmmmm - bugger
Ok i have tried removing it with a drift - not budged it one bit >:(
I think i might take to a local motor engineers to see what he can do.
It cant be used without seeing what is going on behind the retainer - i'm in agreement with hairygit that the cush rubbers are knackered.
If i cant get the ring off, then worst case scenario - i have to source another hub and re-lace my rim.
So it looks the hunt could be on for a spare hub/wheel that anyone may have lying around (preferably without the retainer ring in place!!)
Oddjob - thanks for the offer of the retainer ring - i will come back to you
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Although it didn't work for me, try welding a bar to it and then use a bit of heat plus precussion and it should move- I wasn't that determined to move mine and weling a bar on is easily reversible, just grind the welds back and dress with a file. That way the retainer is re usable.
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Another way that has worked for me in the past is 2 bolts in a bench vice, then place the retainer on to the bolts and try turning the wheel. Make sure the vice is sturdily mounted, you'd be surprised how much force you can impart by turning the wheel, and most times it will work, good luck ;D
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Just had a go at hairygits vice suggestion.
I need a bigger vice as the bolts are to close to the edges of the jaws for my liking.
Gave it a go and i swore i felt it move - nope just bent the bolts :(
Had another go with the bolts much lower but the wheel started to get a bit too heavy to keep level and turn it at the same time.
Wife not much help either!
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Ok its off!!
Got a small bike shop in Leeds to have a look at it (carl ward motorcycles) - he said he hadn't done one for about 15 years and it was a real bugger to do.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/07183F77-16E9-4E4D-A322-5FA458663D5C_zpsmmzyoxp3.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/07183F77-16E9-4E4D-A322-5FA458663D5C_zpsmmzyoxp3.jpg.html)
This is the type of cush drive inside - need to find replacements i think
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/A23D1153-965F-44AA-8787-84B5CB45EE91_zpsgx9hshic.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/A23D1153-965F-44AA-8787-84B5CB45EE91_zpsgx9hshic.jpg.html)
The one part that doesn't look good to me is the sprocket carrier
It looks like its been ground down on the top part - would explain the sideways movement i was getting.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/B5675DD0-5A88-4439-A692-CA5F092E5422_zpslt2xcv94.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/B5675DD0-5A88-4439-A692-CA5F092E5422_zpslt2xcv94.jpg.html)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/68394D0B-02D1-4ED3-9FF9-6F018BB88C98_zpsif03sj2e.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/68394D0B-02D1-4ED3-9FF9-6F018BB88C98_zpsif03sj2e.jpg.html)
Picture from inside
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/CD971E2D-4232-49D8-8965-72EC88519D5E_zpsgz60ia0x.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/CD971E2D-4232-49D8-8965-72EC88519D5E_zpsgz60ia0x.jpg.html)
Does the height of the top part look right?
Can anyone confirm the height so i can check if its ok
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/2FB05E6C-575F-403D-9637-0DCE1E61B218_zps2esxvc4q.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/2FB05E6C-575F-403D-9637-0DCE1E61B218_zps2esxvc4q.jpg.html)
Oddjob will pm you
Thanks
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Oddjob
Pm'd you but i dont know if it sent. Its not showing in my sent items.
Let me know if you received it or not and i will re-send if necessary.
Thanks
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Does picture 1 not show what you need to see re the earlier cush rubbers fitting?
I will take a better picture and upload for you.
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I have a spare sprocket carrier but not sure if its a K3 type or earlier type or if they are the same, I do know the main hub and brake plate are different on the K3, will look later tonight
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sprocket carriers are all the same, I have a good one, cush drive rubbers are different on k3.
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Sorry for the delay. Not had time to think about this
Thanks for that mickwinf
So to sort my existing wheel.
This will mean buying a sprocket carrier and retainer ring etc and i will still have the problem of the cush rubbers - which aren't available…
….and the lining has crack in it. But thats not too bad.
So unless i can find cush rubbers it looks like i need to wait for a good used hub/wheel to come up.
Which could prove to be a pain.
So, the question is:
Can i use an earlier hub in my swinging arm as long as i get the brake plate etc with it?
Am i restricted to looking for CB500/550 or can i use another hub, eg. CB400 CB750?
Would be nice to get one that you can still buy parts for.
This will involve lacing my rim up to it.
Its times like this i feel like i need to buy a donor bike :-/
So has anyone got a good wheel or hub that would suit?
Or cush rubbers for a K3
Anyone?
wanders off to put a wanted ad up
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I may be able to hop out to the shed sometime and look for any spare hubs amoungst my collection of bits. Will not be a fast option as I have a broken foot and am doing what I can for childcare to ease the burden on my better half. However I should have a few spare hubs / wheels as I try to stockpile broken ones to fix at my leisure if they come up cheap with cracked liners - something I enjoy the challenge of fixing on my lathe. I may have taken a chance on a rotten wheel with poor description that has a good hub or something.
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Thanks Matthew
That would be really great.
Would be nice to get one with a good liner too
Thanks
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Liners are not an insurmountable job, £40 last time I asked for the guy in Huddersfield to do one, that was a fair few years ago now, I do my own or have done, been a while now. Probably pays for itself in a few sets of shoes lasting longer not to mention stopping that rear pedal pulsing or indeed the peace of mind that a lump of cracked liner might come away and jam the rear wheel.
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.. new liners can be machined from morris minor hubs :o ...... appraently
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Pretty well what I did but not a morris drum, a car out of the local river, dumped after it caught fire in the 80's was the source of my 'new' drum liner. Job requires a lathe with enough swing over the bed for the bare hub, a freezer and either removal of the hub bearings and use of an oven, or gas torch if the bearings are reluctant to move. Luxury is having a lathe like my new(er to me) lathe which can handle the full wheel, tyre included. Easyest fix is comstars off a 650 nighthawk, reading this forum I'm glad I have a few spares stocked up, especially as I intend to be using my 500 all year round again soon and like the convienience of having a spare on the shelf with a good tyre, I really hate changing tyres in frosty weather in an unheated barn - probably why every bike I own has a spare set of wheels.
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Little update on this
I have managed to source a new set of cush rubbers.
Was very lucky that some came up on CMSNL
I have ordered them so hope they are the right ones when they turn up - fingers crossed
So with a new bearing retainer ring sorted and a new sprocket carrier - thanks oddjob & mickwinf.
The only fly in the ointment is i still have a cracked brake lining so will still need to sort that with either another hub or a reline which i am hoping matthewmosse can help with.
Really appreciate all the help on this.
Its another little job nearly fixed
Cheers all
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Search the site I posted the address of a man in huddersfield who can reline your hub even if it has the rim on
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Paul Jackson Huddersfield Junction 23 M62
01422 378100
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Thanks Matthew (and bryanj)
Called him and he can sort it no problem.
He can do it with the rim on too - might get it up too him next week
Thanks
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would be interested in the outcome of the drum repair as I have a couple with cracked liners.
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What's the price for this service?
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It was about £30-40 plus getting it there, I had 4 done with no rush, which made it cheaper, and as my family live in ramsbottom but work in leeds the transport was free
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That sounds reasonable, compared to a new wheel.
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When i called him - i'm sure he said it was £45
Which still seems very reasonable to me -
if i get time i'm hoping to have it up to him next week, so will let you know how i get on.
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Having done one or two for myself I must say it sounds very reasonable, on my small lathe it takes a fair bit of time, and wear and tear on tooling. Glad your sorted on this one, just looked in the spare wheel shed, what a mess!
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It was a few years ago I had my "Job Lot" done and with no time constraint which probably made it cheaper
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Hi all
Just thought i would update this thread.
I have finally got my wheel finished and its now bolted up nice and tight with no play at all.
As you know i had to replace the retainer ring, sprocket carrier, cush rubbers and get the drum relined.
Its also had new sprockets, chain and brake shoes
Paul jackson has done a great job on the drum which cost £45. Nice old guy too who's into pre65 trials.
i took it over to him in Huddersfield and it was ready within a week.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/4cec2af6abd04fe9f2d43cc64622a94d_zps03602f30.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/4cec2af6abd04fe9f2d43cc64622a94d_zps03602f30.jpg.html)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f187/dh3ntr/Motorbike/68cbe73e4388013b8115b4f677b325f6_zps84b89c58.jpg) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/dh3ntr/media/Motorbike/68cbe73e4388013b8115b4f677b325f6_zps84b89c58.jpg.html)
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Good job and good price.