Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: AshimotoK0 on September 03, 2023, 10:40:38 AM
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I am currently fitting rebuilt wheels to my '75 400/4 that I restored in 1986 !
I couldn't find NOS DID rims in '86 so I used Suzuki Takasago rims (bought from Queens Park Motors
Oddjobb :) ) and non-standard un-butted spokes. Anyway, with eBay and internet, (not around in the mid '80s ! ) I have just rebuilt replacement wheels with the proper period DID non-side-scripted rims and the correct Honda spokes.
I noticed that my Aug 1975 bike had a hex headed rear wheel spindle fitted and it's not correct as it should be the -286- part ..like the CB250K , although I believe it was BZP finish on the CB400F, not chromed. Also I noticed that among my collection of front wheel spindles, some have hollowed ends and some are solid. I think the '75 should have the solid end, BZP finished version. Any ideas? I think my original rear spindle must have been from a late F2 model or perhaps a CJ250T.
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Hi Ash,
My '75 400 (first reg Nov 75) UK bike has a round head rear spindle (with tommy bar hole) and is (and was) BZP. Front spindle is solid end BZP. The 350 front is the same but the rear is round with hole and chromed.
Ian
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My 1978 400 has the hex head rear spindle.
That's probably what you expect for a later build.
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As far as I can remember early 400s had round end with tommy bar hole, my 75 has, later with hex head which my 78 has, according to my parts book the rear spindle changed at frame number 1065686 but no indication as to which spindle.
I have three front spindles, and all have the hole, the parts book doesn’t show that there was a change in front spindle.
All BZP.
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The hex head one is a bit of a mystery as it doesn't seem to show in any 400F or CJ250 parts book I have. I discussed this a while back with Chris Rushton, who knows a thing or two about CB400F's. He found a NOS one but it was too long for the 400F and I guess a CB250N part. I have found a -312- (SL350) part that I think is the correct style and length but not showing as ever fitted to the 400F. The round rear axle with tommy-bar hole one was, I guess the 286-010 part when chromed and 286-020 when BZP.
I saved the pics of the 'Push-mile only' CB400F2 that Silverstone auctioned a while back and it clearly shows the hex rear spindle and the non-hollow front spindle. I guess the hollowed front ones I have came from a CJ250T.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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Here is the link to my Dropbox pics of the 'push mileage' CB400F2 (Parakeet Yellow) if you missed it first time round
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7n9nal0t7r4as6h/AACQcBaxV06qcxhLIWnekLaoa?dl=0
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That's the first time I've clocked the black side stand spring. I have bought DS ones in Honda bags with labels that were BZP.
Ian
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That's the first time I've clocked the black side stand spring. I have bought DS ones in Honda bags with labels that were BZP.
Ian
As Julie said at the time it was auctioned ..... she wasn't at all convinced that that bike was an unmolested 'push-only' mile example.
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Whoever painted that spring also had a bit of an attempt at re-painting the black line around the gen cover badge - and failed!
Ian
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I have had hollow and solid front spindles in Honda packets with the same part number Ash. I think it was just two different suppliers mate.
All 400/4's i have had through the work shop had flange nut rear spindles and all 350/4's have round head rear spindle. Not sure if they started off with the round head from the 350/4's and then went on to the nut type.
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Here is the link to my Dropbox pics of the 'push mileage' CB400F2 (Parakeet Yellow) if you missed it first time round
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7n9nal0t7r4as6h/AACQcBaxV06qcxhLIWnekLaoa?dl=0
Are they Showa or FVQ rear shocks Ash, I've tried to zoom in on the photo but the sticker is too far gone. Maybe Piki can make some if he has a phot to use? I'd like to get a set made for my genuine 400/4, there are no stickers on my rear shocks.
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Here is the link to my Dropbox pics of the 'push mileage' CB400F2 (Parakeet Yellow) if you missed it first time round
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7n9nal0t7r4as6h/AACQcBaxV06qcxhLIWnekLaoa?dl=0
Are they Showa or FVQ rear shocks Ash, I've tried to zoom in on the photo but the sticker is too far gone. Maybe Piki can make some if he has a phot to use? I'd like to get a set made for my genuine 400/4, there are no stickers on my rear shocks.
Piki definitely does the SHOWA stickers.
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I have had hollow and solid front spindles in Honda packets with the same part number Ash. I think it was just two different suppliers mate.
All 400/4's i have had through the work shop had flange nut rear spindles and all 350/4's have round head rear spindle. Not sure if they started off with the round head from the 350/4's and then went on to the nut type.
Mine is a pretty early model Graham and deffo had the round BZP type originally. Also early UK model CB400F's had a different mudguard as they still had the front number plate fitted and were actually a -369- CB250G5 part with a different shape cable guide also. I didn't know about the different shape cable guide until ChrisR told me about it.
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The mudguards were just parts to Honda. Though in the UK we scraped front plates in 1973 they would of fitted them as it was on the assembly line. I have seen UK CB750K2 with front plates right up to 1975 ;)
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The mudguards were just parts to Honda. Though in the UK we scraped front plates in 1973 they would of fitted them as it was on the assembly line. I have seen UK CB750K2 with front plates right up to 1975 ;)
Spot on Trig, time to unearth a tear jerking memory!! Purchased in late '74, front plates removed and screwed to garage wall late '75. Bike was sold in '77 complete with number plate as the collection fad had not really taken off then. Ho hum. (Plate is now worn by a 500 Mercedes!)
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The mudguards were just parts to Honda. Though in the UK we scraped front plates in 1973 they would of fitted them as it was on the assembly line. I have seen UK CB750K2 with front plates right up to 1975 ;)
Spot on Trig, time to unearth a tear jerking memory!! Purchased in late '74, front plates removed and screwed to garage wall late '75. Bike was sold in '77 complete with number plate as the collection fad had not really taken off then. Ho hum. (Plate is now worn by a 500 Mercedes!)
Nice old picture ;)
They kept the front plates even after changing the front mudguard from the 300 to the 341 in early 1974.
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They changed the regulations on transfering plates from bikes to cars. Pretty sure they stopped it.
Local firm JCB bought a load of new mopeds so that all the company cars were JCB 1, JCB 2, etc I believe it was originally a Welsh local authority - this was before DVLA replaced local authority licensing circa 1973/4
JCB sold on the mopeds after transferring the numbers iirc they bought a block of ten. JCB1 I think is Anthony Bamford's Bentley.
For an urgent owner check at weekends Police had a key to Matlock records for the County Registrations, it was an alphabetical card system. If the car was sold to someone living outside derbyshire the card would direct you to say Nott's. Notts would then check their records. If a vehicle had changed hands a few times it might take over a day to trace it's current owner.
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Lovely time warp pic there Micky.
In the 60's and 70's when we ended up with 7 digits on plates, the local office in Hull (Trippett St. for Ash) only issued 1 to 99 numbers to motorcycles to keep no more than 6 digits for the rear plate, so a great many of those have been moved on to expensive cars. Not sure if that was a Gov thing or just Hull?
Ian
They certainly did stop bike to car/ car to bike (and tractor to anything) transfers but the former is now allowed - I've done one of each recently.
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Lovely time warp pic there Micky.
In the 60's and 70's when we ended up with 7 digits on plates, the local office in Hull (Trippett St. for Ash) only issued 1 to 99 numbers to motorcycles to keep no more than 6 digits for the rear plate, so a great many of those have been moved on to expensive cars. Not sure if that was a Gov thing or just Hull?
Ian
I think many local authorities (Burton on Trent defo:) used to retain low digit registration numbers not just for motorcycles but they kept low ones for local authority vehicles like snow ploughs, Corporation Busses etc.
Me doing my best to grow a moustache circa 1970.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50432719296_2317a4d503_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jQySp3)Ted's Honda 250 circa 1967 (https://flic.kr/p/2jQySp3) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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It used to be you could go upwards but not backwards on plates with moped at bottom and hgv at top but dvla change the rules every tea break so who knows.
One nice little earner for them is it costs £80 to tranfer a reg to a retention certificate then if you sell it the new owner has to pay another £80 to use it but if you know the new owners name and tick the small unseen box when asking for cert its only one £80.
Aint our rip off systems wonderfull!!!
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To my shame I always mixed up my Honda 250 Dream & Honda 250 Super Sport in my head - they were both red.
The Dream was much easier to ride as the SS needed revving like a 400. I think my Dream had square section front headlamp so this must be the SS.
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Yes Bryan,
When you think of the number of transfers and retentions, let alone the auctioning off of numbers, most of their staff 'shirking from home' and the 'dual taxation' at change of ownership, you would think their income could wipe out the National debt in one go!
Ian
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Lovely time warp pic there Micky.
In the 60's and 70's when we ended up with 7 digits on plates, the local office in Hull (Trippett St. for Ash) only issued 1 to 99 numbers to motorcycles to keep no more than 6 digits for the rear plate, so a great many of those have been moved on to expensive cars. Not sure if that was a Gov thing or just Hull?
Ian
They certainly did stop bike to car/ car to bike (and tractor to anything) transfers but the former is now allowed - I've done one of each recently.
Certainly remember Trippett St local taxation office Ian. B.M.D. Registry office was around there too. When I was about 19 I got glandular fever and had to leave Newcastle Uni 'cos I was really ill afterwards, so my brother got me a job at De-La-Pole Mental Hospital in Willerby until I could go back the next year. One of my jobs was to wet shave the 'Trippett Street gang' .. a bunch of outpatients who lived in accommodation down there. So my claim to fame was that when I was 19 I shaved over 20 times per day! I ended up at Sunderland Poly when I went back (complicated story) and I used to wander down to Cowies motorbike shop to be impressed by the new 400F in 1975 and not so impressed by the new brown CB500T. Turned out that the 400F I have now (bought in Hull for £100) was the Cowie 400F demonstrator bike... the very one I used to ogle at in their window.
Man I miss the DVLA V888 form service, where you paid them £5 to check out all the docs they possessed on your vehicle, which they diligently photocopied and sent you by 'Signed-For' post ... and all that for a fiver. I have Mick Taylor (Kettle738) on here to thank for telling me about the V888 form as it unearthed a thick wadge of docs on my '75 400F but sadly very little on my CB750K0. I guess it was all down to the area that held all of the records and how good they were at retaining the forms.
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Ash,
Those old 'uns at the Trippett St. office were so helpful. When I built my first Mini in 69/70 from a nearly new but lightly damaged shell, I went to them to enquire about registration. Just needed receipts to an untold but not very high value and they issued a brand new number and was even allowed to pick one. Unfortunately when I took everything later to do the deed, the number I had reserved (WAT 4J) had mysteriously been allocated to another vehicle. I ended up with 404, which I still have to this day.
I later found out that 'my' number was on a car belonging to those folk who had a dealership in Hull and owned TON I and KAT 1E - you will probably remember who I'm referring to! Seems like money or favours could have been changing hands even back then.
I later built a 1300 GT (1100 type) for my girlfriend back then and they let me pick GAT 404L for that one.
Times have changed!
Ian
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Not sure if it was just Staffs but when I used to register a new car I had the manufacturers V55/1 supplied by Audi, Merc or Opel - the licensing office at Burton Town Hall would issue you with a block of say 10 new numbers on the first of the month printed like a book of stamps on a perforated sheet ,e.g. EFA 101 L to say EFA 110.
When I sold a car the customer could pick a number off the sheet, this was detached & stapled onto the V55/1 where the registration mark box was.
At the end of each month we returned any unused numbers - this avoided a number being duplicated or pinched by another dealership.
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Not sure if it was just Staffs but when I used to register a new car I had the manufacturers V55/1 supplied by Audi, Merc or Opel - the licensing office at Burton Town Hall would issue you with a block of say 10 new numbers on the first of the month printed like a book of stamps on a perforated sheet ,e.g. EFA 101 L to say EFA 110.
When I sold a car the customer could pick a number off the sheet, this was detached & stapled onto the V55/1 where the registration mark box was.
At the end of each month we returned any unused numbers - this avoided a number being duplicated or pinched by another dealership.
Thats how it was when I used to register new cars at Maidstone LVLO for Kent and Brighton for Sussex. We used to pick up a sheet of 50 numbers at a time, let the customer choose, and stick to V55/5. We used to keep the best numbers for all our demonstrators 😊😊😊😊
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I think it might have been V55/5 not V55/1 Julie I'm trying to remember form numbers from 50 years ago mostly done online these days by new car traders.
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I think it might have been V55/5 not V55/1 Julie I'm trying to remember form numbers from 50 years ago mostly done online these days by new car traders.
These days it's a V55/4 for new car registrations Ted but I had to look on DVLA to find that out. It was a lifetime ago so maybe it was V55/4 even back then.
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V55/5 sound about right to me for back then Julie, V55/1 I think with hindsight we used to put UK numbers on Jersey Imports.
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I can remember the perforated tags but we didnt have to attach them just write the on v55/whatever, always remember the two fsiedx flying bananas in one crate where i built and pdi'd one and the boss the other, 6 months later came in for service together and both had same reg! The boss got his wrong, luckily the v5's were correct it was only the no plate, thank god for stick on number number plates!
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I am currently fitting rebuilt wheels to my '75 400/4 that I restored in 1986 !
I couldn't find NOS DID rims in '86 so I used Suzuki Takasago rims (bought from Queens Park Motors
Oddjobb :) ) and non-standard un-butted spokes. Anyway, with eBay and internet, (not around in the mid '80s ! ) I have just rebuilt replacement wheels with the proper period DID non-side-scripted rims and the correct Honda spokes.
I noticed that my Aug 1975 bike had a hex headed rear wheel spindle fitted and it's not correct as it should be the -286- part ..like the CB250K , although I believe it was BZP finish on the CB400F, not chromed. Also I noticed that among my collection of front wheel spindles, some have hollowed ends and some are solid. I think the '75 should have the solid end, BZP finished version. Any ideas? I think my original rear spindle must have been from a late F2 model or perhaps a CJ250T.
Going back to spindles. I have a CB550 F1 / F2 with a hex head and the flanged nut. Everywhere i have looked for the part number it comes up with 42301-300-020 which is from the 750 :o
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Going back to spindles. I have a CB550 F1 / F2 with a hex head and the flanged nut. Everywhere i have looked for the part number it comes up with 42301-300-020 which is from the 750
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Perhaps these are the ones on the 400F2 and later models 550/750's respectively Graham?
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
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Every 550 F1/F2 i have owned has had the hex head rear wheel spindle. The shaft is too thick for a 400/4.
Not sure about if the late 750's shared the same shaft mate.
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Every 550 F1/F2 i have owned has had the hex head rear wheel spindle. The shaft is too thick for a 400/4.
Not sure about if the late 750's shared the same shaft mate.
400/4 = the 312 part I showed 1st pic of mate ... originally a SL350 twin part.
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Every 550 F1/F2 i have owned has had the hex head rear wheel spindle. The shaft is too thick for a 400/4.
Not sure about if the late 750's shared the same shaft mate.
400/4 = the 312 part I showed 1st pic of mate ... originally a SL350 twin part.
Must of used a 393 spindle mate. Cheers for the info ;)