Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: MrDavo on June 04, 2017, 03:42:18 PM
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My tank has always had a bubble in the paint, about the size of a 2p. Because the paint is original afik I have left it alone. Today i noticed to my horror that, whether because of the recent hot weather, or me poking around at it, a large pea size bubble has appeared in the middle of it.
This is too big to ignore. The good news is that I always wanted a Candy Gold Honda, my mate had a new gold CB250 that I tried to keep up with. I know that there is a tank painter on here, and advice about fresh decals, however it can all wait until Winter.
In the meantime, can I pop the bubble with a sharp blade and reseal with my clearcoat touch Up? Or would you leave well alone?
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I would leave it well alone. If you burst the bubble, the paint may have hardened again, and then it could crack and break of leaving an exposed area, which would look awful. Also, if the paint is still soft, you will have surplus paint skin which will not lie flat, and again look awful. :-[
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I recently had one of those on my Suzuki GS1000. The painter I use popped it with a sharp needle and did nothing else, the following day it had gone. He said if you try to flatten it out it will crease and look a mess, it's hard to even see the needle hole now.
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I recently had one of those on my Suzuki GS1000. The painter I use popped it with a sharp needle and did nothing else, the following day it had gone. He said if you try to flatten it out it will crease and look a mess, it's hard to even see the needle hole now.
Quite possibly that could work, but get a professional paint person to do it, that way if it goes tits up, it's their fault!
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My 750 developed a bubble under the tank I made the mistake of popping it.
Its gone back now but it has creased good job its out of sight.
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Mine is in such an obvious place that its put up with the blurg or repaint, but I can't look at that all day.
I'm wondering if I should ask the local paint guy to do it while I'm in Canada during July. Of course now I'm getting into the 50 shades of gold debate, which is all over these forums.
One of my blue side panels was wrong, so I got a pattern panel, and after an abortive start with RS, who's paint was more green than blue, I got the paint from Andy Cepok in Germany. Not cheap but it did match.
He does also kits for the CB750, 3 bottles of paint and the vinyl stickers for the tank:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-750-Four-Lacksatz-Lack-Candy-Gold-Tank-Dekor-Paint-Decal-Kit-SOHC-/361766195367
However, my concern is that although being listed for K0 and K1, its the Candy Gold Custom, LX, when it should be the vanilla Candy Gold, CQ. LX is a K2 colour, that said my late K1 came from the 'new factory', and had K2 stripes with silver from new if I still have the original tank (which matches up with what it says in Hondaman's book).
As far as I can see there are slightly bigger flecks in the LX's silver and a little more orange in the gold. I either use LX or look for another source, Cepok doesnt seem to do CQ. I like the LX colour and the big flakes, its whether I can put up with the 'I think you'll find...' types.
I found this picture on dotnet to compare the two golds, CQ looks a little anemic compared to LX here:
(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac260/Hinomaru_750/1972HondaCB750Gold052-Copy2.jpg)
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It is true, I have seen original K1's in candy LX and I have seen original K2's with black tank badges. Though Honda say that the K2 has white badges on the tank.
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I have seen original K1's in candy LX
Really? That helps a lot. My old parts book doesn't know about LX K1's, only CQ, but if you say so I shall send the know it alls in your direction when they tell me that my bike's the wrong colour.. :)
I have to decide this week, but we still may get Candy Ruby Red yet - I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.....
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Stop press - after much internal debate I've ordered Candy Ruby Red plus gold tank decals from Andy Cepok.
I decided that if I went blue again I've nothing fresh for my £££, just the same thing, but no blister. I then had a great red v gold decision to make. Candy Poo Brown never got a look in, and though Valley Green looks good it isn't easily available.
I always fancied Candy Ruby Red, I just have to not leave it in the sun for long periods, having sworn never to own a red car again due to paint fade. Ebay is full of examples of how Candy Red fades to a washed out orange. I will ask ther local car bodyshop guy, who recently did an invisble repair on my 911, if he is up to doing it.
I'd like to get the oil tank sticker (ordered) under the laquer rather than trying to keep it stuck on the outside, any reasons (such as reaction) why this can't be done?
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In my experience as long as the glue is removed from the back of the sticker before applying to the panel and then it is clear coated over, it is fine. Piki does the oil tank sticker.
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I couldn't make up my mind on my 500K1 as I had a brown in 74 that I got resprayed blue in 76. Wanted gold this time, but was worried by the many variations and thought I might not get what I wanted, soooo I've got a candy ruby red 500. Looks lovely.
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Good choice!
Tank badges - do I just pop them of by getting a knife blade under them? Do I need to get new fasteners to give the painter?
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Great choice - I ummed and arred for a while what colour to go for but eventually plumped for Candy Antares Red for my K4 (a 1976 colour but bollox to concours)......it turned out even better than I hoped for. I bought the Tank Decals (different to yours I grant you) from Sunrise graphics (my neighbour funnily enough) and he threw in a tank sticker with black typeface and also one with white typeface - which is the one I used....the painter sprayed a clearcoat over it and it looks the business against the red paint. Lovely.
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I decided that having bitten the bullet and ordered the red, that to use the bike for now I had nothing to lose by following the advice above and taking a fine needle to the big new bubble, and it has largely worked.
The 2p sized blurg is still there, but the large new angry pea size part has gone down. I minded to put just a blob of clear coat from my touch up over the pinhole. It is back to being livable with for now, rather than plain hideous.
Despite having spent £ stupid on the red paint and vinyl, we go away to Canada just after Crich, then a couple of weeks after we come back I'm off to the MGP. What I dont want is to miss being able to take the CB750 to either because I'm either awaiting paint to be done or trying to get the discombobulated wiring back together.
So it may well have to stay blue until the Autumn. My question is, how long will the vinyl tank stripes keep for, I've read how they should be used while they are fresh? Any tips on storage?
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Too right use it and enjoy it :) You wont want to get it dirty when it has a nice new paint job.
If the vinyl's are kept in a cool dark place they should keep for sometime. I think the problems arise when there years old
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Right, I'm back from the Manx, no bike related dramas (only a health one - I came back with a swollen foot which turned out to be gout - possibly a result of a burger & beer diet) so I have now talen a dental pick to the bubble to see what was underneath.
Not a rust hole as I feared, but there seems to be filler there, I assume covering a ding, and there was a small crease in it, creating a small void which I guess trapped air that expanded with heat when left out in the sun, forcing up the bubble under the paint. So, down to poor preparation really, like the paint under the crank bearings, spoiling a thorough restoration with a tiny detail.
(https://s5.postimg.org/56by4h8ev/IMG_2030.jpg)
You can see how the silver coat hasnt stuck to what I presume is a white primer coat and how the bubble has then spread further, unsticking the blue candy from the silver. The 'crease' is top leeft of the white patch.
No sign of any fuel contamination from the inside, the tank seems to have been sealed in the past with POR15 or similar, it all looks to be a uniform smoth primer grey finish inside rather than the dirt and rust I feared I may find in a 46 year old tank.
I'm not sure who will get the job of painting yet, it may be a while before I get the time to remove the headlamp and ears. I may take it to my local auto bodyshop, who recently did a good invisible repair on my 911. One concern I have is shade - the candy colours darken with more paint, without a NOS bit of Candy Ruby Red it will be hard to tell him what to match it to. Either I look and ebay for a small new bit in that colour or a used bit with a patch that has never seen sunlight (Ive had red cars turn pink before and know what a bugger it is for fading in UV light), or maybe just give him a link to the red body kit on the Yamiya site and tell him that's what I want.
At Crich, Trigger told me my stripes aren't quite in the right place, but the paint kit from Andy Kepok has a scrap of paper with measurements, so I'll tell him to use these and not just put the stripes where they are now.
I'm not going to do anything to the bubble site, as it comes under paint preparation I will leave it to the professional to rectify it as he sees fit.
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I was a bit puzzled as to how there could be a 'crease' in the filler, but on closer inspection I think its a bad edge to a repair patch. I still find it incredidble that someone would think this OK, given that paint quality is all in the preperation, and wonder what sort of blemish would have been showing through before the bubble came up.
Anyhoo, after reading recommendations on here and other forums, I'm toying with the idea of using a specialist bike painter who has done candy before, rather than finding out the hard way whether my local chap is any good at it. Everyone thinks Andy Parnaby's jobs are the dog's danglies, and I don't mind paying a bit more to have it right the first time, especially after the fun and games I had trying to get a side panel done in candy blue green to a reasonable standard locally (3 different painters, the first of which was me, even then it wasn't perfect with dust in the laquer that had to be polished out). He seems to have moved to Wetherby since Ash and others used him in Tockwith, but I found a 2017 number and email for him on a Triumph triple forum.
I still don't know how you would paint candy without a sample to match for shade, but hje should have a better idea than my local car body shop of what we are after.
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Even with a sample its just about impossible to match candy as every pass of colour changes the shade, hence most will only paint sets
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One way of getting filler not sticking to a repair is by putting it onto non keyed gloss surface ie original paint. Sometimes with a small shallow dent the repairer deems it too small to hold enough filler to reprofile before priming, so they knock it in to a bigger dent prior to filling then fail to sand the surface properly.
I guess that given the approach you've found in the engine then anything is possible.
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Bryan is right as, paint is my worse nightmare. I have known a painter to paint two tanks in candy with the same paint but, over two day's. The first tank came out spot on, the second a day later was totally wrong.
Andy is a very good painter but, his prep is not to my preference.
Menno's prep work is the best I have ever seen, he soaks the tanks in acid which strips the inside and out. Then you have a good canvas to start work.
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I was a bit puzzled as to how there could be a 'crease' in the filler, but on closer inspection I think its a bad edge to a repair patch. I still find it incredidble that someone would think this OK, given that paint quality is all in the preperation, and wonder what sort of blemish would have been showing through before the bubble came up.
Anyhoo, after reading recommendations on here and other forums, I'm toying with the idea of using a specialist bike painter who has done candy before, rather than finding out the hard way whether my local chap is any good at it. Everyone thinks Andy Parnaby's jobs are the dog's danglies, and I don't mind paying a bit more to have it right the first time, especially after the fun and games I had trying to get a side panel done in candy blue green to a reasonable standard locally (3 different painters, the first of which was me, even then it wasn't perfect with dust in the laquer that had to be polished out). He seems to have moved to Wetherby since Ash and others used him in Tockwith, but I found a 2017 number and email for him on a Triumph triple forum.
I still don't know how you would paint candy without a sample to match for shade, but hje should have a better idea than my local car body shop of what we are after.
Andrew is still in Tockwith next to John Wyatt's place at Marston Moor Ind. Estate...I messaged him only last week about painting my CD125 frame in candy red. His number is on my old phone. His home is in Tadcaster though. ..I will dig it out for you as I always talk on Facebook messenger now (just search Andrew Parnaby on FB and his icon picture is a wall clock). I split my paint between him and Menno but like Trigger says Menno's interior cleaning is superb. In all honesty I would recommend both for candy paint and price wise (even post #@%$), there is not a lot in it. Disagree that Andrew's prep isn't up to scratch ..it's just that Menno wins out on the interior prep ..so make sure that your tank in squeaky clean inside if you go to Andy.
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Menno would be a long drive for me, Tockwith is only an hour or so away by car. The tank has been lined inside as I said, so that isn't a worry for me. The kit I got from eBay has vinyl tank stripes, but if he could get better results painting them they don't have to be used, I can always sell them on.
I have a mobile number and an email for Andrew, but I'll wait till I've had time to take the headlamp and ears off the bike, which means front wheel off and drop the forks, as well as undoing all the spaghetti in the headlamp. I might take the opportunity to fit decent japanese connectors rather than the red Halfords rubbish thats in there now, I have a saved link from this forum for a US supplier.
Last night I got the badges and hardwear off the tank and sidepanels, no real problems. I may be more nervous refitting the tank cap and latch when there is soft new paint everywhere.
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I wouldn't trust an old unknown liner, if it leaks or lifts then it risks damaging your nice new paintwork. A small leak can produce blisters like the one you started with.
I'd take the opportunity to remove it if possible and to braze any holes it may be sealing. I've had both petseal and POR15 liners fail, in my opinion they're a last resort to use only when necessary.
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I wouldn't trust an old unknown liner, if it leaks or lifts then it risks damaging your nice new paintwork. A small leak can produce blisters like the one you started with.
I'd take the opportunity to remove it if possible and to braze any holes it may be sealing. I've had both petseal and POR15 liners fail, in my opinion they're a last resort to use only when necessary.
I think Andrew used to use Flowliner www.flowliner.co.uk/ for bad tanks ..or cuts them open, blasts then re-welds. He probably uses Flowliner as they are not far from him and he knows them. Personally I would agree and go back to bare metal wherever possible .... Got to admit that if I have a tank with internal corrosion I would be swaying towards Menno and his cleaning process... Delivery of my 500 tank and panels with ample insurance to Germany, last year, was about 16 quid from memory. Andrew insists on painting the 750 stripes on and won't use transfers, I guess Menno may do the same. My 750K0 tank deffo had painted on stripes from new. I am not sure what was used on K1's onwards though. Graham will know.
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All looks well, but....
Peering in with a torch, there is a small black patch on the nearside base, everything else is matt light grey, so yes, the lining is dodgy. >:( Its only a small patch but any is enough to FUBAR the new paint.
So, if I use AP it definitely wants doing, Flowliner sounds good to me.
If I could send it to Germany, will Menno reline it after the acid process?, I assume that would strip the old liner OK, if somewhat messily. Photos of his work look excellent, however the thought of packing my tank, panels, ears and headlamp bowl in a box to a good enough standard fills me with dread, but it didn't put off Ash packing and posting me a CB750 crank, something I wouldn't have even known where to begin with.
On balance, delivery to and from Yorkshire in the back of my car still seems a better bet for me.
A question for Graham, when you saw the bike at Crich, you reckoned my tank stripes weren't quite in the right place, can you remember why not? I'd rather have them painted on, but can provide the painer with the vinyl ones and measurements supplied as a guide, I don't want him just replicating what's on there now in a different colour if it isn't right (ive always thought the silver lining a bit iffy anyway, though Hondaman's book says its OK for a 'new factory' late K1). Photos if it helps:
(https://s5.postimg.org/555ydbp03/Early_2017_045.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/555ydbp03/)
(https://s5.postimg.org/5ccblpuc3/IMG_1227.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5ccblpuc3/)
(https://s5.postimg.org/oipiowatv/PC170010.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oipiowatv/)
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Bare metal is preferable if possible, I wouldn't reline if I could do a metal repair.
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Can't remember why I thought the strip looked wrong. I would never trust a liner in a tank, if you are going for a paint job and suspecting a small hole, I would just go for a Yamiya tank set to be on the safe side.
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Lining looks a bit high to me. However in the old days they didn't place them every time at the same place either.
So, shipping is indeed something quite a few people worry about. Especialy Dutch people; they really don't want to send their stuff.
But until now nothing ever really happened while shipping. It helps though that the parcels are insured and that there is a tracking number on it.
Because of that number one can see which person delivered the parcel. That makes quite a lot of difference.
If you are seriously thinking of having your set painted by me I would indeed advise you to have me clean the tank inside out at this company near me.
They put the tank in several baths, one with chemicals heating up till 80 degrees. They litteraly boil the paint off with chemicals.
If the tank needs a new lining afterwards the tank is completely clean inside making a lining close to 100% effective.
Lining it is also very cheep while I don't have to do any prep work to line it. Since it has been cleaned chemicaly anyway.
Matching colours with candy depends on various things. Some colours are easier than other colours. Experience also helps a lot.
At first I bought ready candy paint but the more sets of one colour one paints the more you understand a colour.
I mix most of the candy colours myself now and often matches original paint not to see differences in colour.
I did a candy antares red for a member here on the forum and I was quite surprised the colour was spot on.
And last: on the 750's I do paint the lines as well.
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Hi Dave .. Bit of a conflict of interests here but Andrew literally does not have those facilities for cleaning the tank that Menno does and I think personally that would sway me. His process really is that good that my 500K0 tank looked NOS inside. Andy got the positioning of the stripes on my Ruby Red K0 tank from John Wyatt's book ..he got a freebie 'cos he's literally next door and they do work for each other. Lord knows if the positioning is correct .. I will get the tank out and photo it. I have only ever had one tank with liner in it and what I describe here was a schoolboy style 'gung-ho' ... mad moment ..fraught with danger.. mad-scientist method. I put a soft cloth into the tank and pushed it down to the bottom so that it 'wicked' up any excess (stale in my case) fuel. Did this a couple of times to remove as much old fuel as possible. Outside, I then I tipped a full 500g £1 shop tub of caustic soda pellets inside the tank so there was equal amounts in either side. Then, at arms length and with great caution, I poured a kettle of boiling water into the tank and buggered off sharpish. When it had cooled sufficiently I swilled the hot solution around the tank. You can imagine the exotherm that happened and scary, steamy vapours came wooshing out of the filler neck but afterwards I literally pulled a load of seaweed looking stuff from the tank, this being the remains of the liner. I guess the liner was the old 'Petseal' type material, not a modern epoxy. I don't think a properly formulated epoxy resin sealer would be touched by any modern fuel and no normal solvent or acid or caustic soda. It was take something like T.H.F. to remove it.
Yea that crank I sold you was a bit of a b*gger to pack but I was only doing what Bryan did for me when he sold me a crank & rods early on, when I was a newbie on here. I think James uses one of those plastic packing crates (likes of Halfords use them I think) for shipping his tanks to Menno and he must have sent quite a few backwards and forward.
Here are the remains of the liner after it dried out :-
[attachimg=1]
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'Mad scientist' has never been more appropraite Ash, b*gger that for a game of soldiers. It looks like my body kit will be going for a holiday in Germany then, a Yamiya kit is out of the question unless I win the lottery or sell the wife and cat. That said I've already probably chucked more money at the bike than it's really worth, but isn't that always the way? I refuse to add all the bills up, like when I raced classic bikes, if you knew how much you'd really spent you just wouldn't do it. One day my HM300s will inevitably rot through (well I will go using the bike!), then we'll see how deep my pockets really are. Yamiya currently has a NOS set at £3.5k, plus all the usual taxes etc.
A real geek point here, and not something I'll worry about, but the Yamiya K1 body kits have spot welds visible attaching the headlamp ears to the tubes that cover the fork legs, my bike doesn't have these, have they been filled in before painting? I'm not sad enough to dig the welds out, just interested.
To misquote Jaws, 'we're going to need a bigger box' - I have several large plastic storage boxes, but the biggest is not quite large enough, close but no cigar. Something like this may do it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Really-Useful-Lightweight-Stackable-W440xD710xH310mm/dp/B000KN6HMW/ref=sr_1_3/262-2435160-8446762?ie=UTF8&qid=1504866417&sr=8-3&keywords=storage+boxes+with+lids+plastic (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Really-Useful-Lightweight-Stackable-W440xD710xH310mm/dp/B000KN6HMW/ref=sr_1_3/262-2435160-8446762?ie=UTF8&qid=1504866417&sr=8-3&keywords=storage+boxes+with+lids+plastic) but a bugger if it comes and everything doesn't quite fit. The fact that most are sold by Litres capacity not size doesn't help, I reckon 60x30x25 to get the tank in comfy, how much room is left for the other stuff reamins to be seen. I don't suppose Staples are going to let me turn up with the body kit to try their boxes out, but you never know.
I wonder if either Menno or James can point me at a box, or size of box, that they know works for a K0/K1 body kit?
Menno, can you pm me your address?, it will be a week or two before I am ready to send anything. Is the paint kit I bought from Andy Cepok http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB750-K0-K1-Color-Laque-Paint-Decal-Stripe-Kit-Set-Candy-Ruby-Red-R-4C-/291755643949 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB750-K0-K1-Color-Laque-Paint-Decal-Stripe-Kit-Set-Candy-Ruby-Red-R-4C-/291755643949) any use to you, or should I try and sell it on, if you'd rather mix your own paint? I know you won't want the stripes in any case.
If you don't need the paint I could even go back to torturing myself with the 'red or gold' debate for a couple of weeks! I know the correct answer is to have a bike in each colour.... 8)
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Dave.
We send sets to Menno in a sturdy cardboard box with bubble wrap and newspaper as packing/ filling. We have a set on it's way to Menno at present. Menno sends sets back in cardboard boxes too, very well wrapped. The box I used yesterday was 60x43x40cm which is the box Menno sent the last set back in.
Menno Dek
Hohstrasse 70
66887
Jettenbach
Germany
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Whats Menno's typical turn round time?
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Depends how busy he is, the work required and the colour he's painting. Our last set took almost 6 months and was in quite good nick but have also known them back in 6 weeks.
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'Mad scientist' has never been more appropraite Ash, b*gger that for a game of soldiers. It looks like my body kit will be going for a holiday in Germany then, a Yamiya kit is out of the question unless I win the lottery or sell the wife and cat. That said I've already probably chucked more money at the bike than it's really worth, but isn't that always the way? I refuse to add all the bills up, like when I raced classic bikes, if you knew how much you'd really spent you just wouldn't do it. One day my HM300s will inevitably rot through (well I will go using the bike!), then we'll see how deep my pockets really are. Yamiya currently has a NOS set at £3.5k, plus all the usual taxes etc.
A real geek point here, and not something I'll worry about, but the Yamiya K1 body kits have spot welds visible attaching the headlamp ears to the tubes that cover the fork legs, my bike doesn't have these, have they been filled in before painting? I'm not sad enough to dig the welds out, just interested.
To misquote Jaws, 'we're going to need a bigger box' - I have several large plastic storage boxes, but the biggest is not quite large enough, close but no cigar. Something like this may do it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Really-Useful-Lightweight-Stackable-W440xD710xH310mm/dp/B000KN6HMW/ref=sr_1_3/262-2435160-8446762?ie=UTF8&qid=1504866417&sr=8-3&keywords=storage+boxes+with+lids+plastic (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Really-Useful-Lightweight-Stackable-W440xD710xH310mm/dp/B000KN6HMW/ref=sr_1_3/262-2435160-8446762?ie=UTF8&qid=1504866417&sr=8-3&keywords=storage+boxes+with+lids+plastic) but a bugger if it comes and everything doesn't quite fit. The fact that most are sold by Litres capacity not size doesn't help, I reckon 60x30x25 to get the tank in comfy, how much room is left for the other stuff reamins to be seen. I don't suppose Staples are going to let me turn up with the body kit to try their boxes out, but you never know.
I wonder if either Menno or James can point me at a box, or size of box, that they know works for a K0/K1 body kit?
Menno, can you pm me your address?, it will be a week or two before I am ready to send anything. Is the paint kit I bought from Andy Cepok http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB750-K0-K1-Color-Laque-Paint-Decal-Stripe-Kit-Set-Candy-Ruby-Red-R-4C-/291755643949 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB750-K0-K1-Color-Laque-Paint-Decal-Stripe-Kit-Set-Candy-Ruby-Red-R-4C-/291755643949) any use to you, or should I try and sell it on, if you'd rather mix your own paint? I know you won't want the stripes in any case.
If you don't need the paint I could even go back to torturing myself with the 'red or gold' debate for a couple of weeks! I know the correct answer is to have a bike in each colour.... 8)
The Yamiya ears are aftermarket, that is why you can see the rivets ;)
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Depends how busy he is, the work required and the colour he's painting. Our last set took almost 6 months and was in quite good nick but have also known them back in 6 weeks.
Julie,
Being aware of the state of my bike and length of "intended" restoration already, you will appreciate I see no problem with that!
Tim
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Not having the bike on the road for 6 months would be a bit of a blow, though I do have onother one I can ride. Still the sooner I can send my parts the sooner I'll get them back, whatever the turnaround time. Thanks for the info re packing and the address Julie.
Interesting about the headlamp ears, considering what they cost I assumed Yamiya stuff would be a perfect replica of the OEM parts.
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Depends how busy he is, the work required and the colour he's painting. Our last set took almost 6 months and was in quite good nick but have also known them back in 6 weeks.
Julie,
Being aware of the state of my bike and length of "intended" restoration already, you will appreciate I see no problem with that!
Tim
Tim, I reckon if you sent your tank away now and started fettling your bike soon, both would be ready about the same time ;D ;) ;)
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I sent AP two tanks & ears last year and waited 7 months, albeit he had a hospital operation in between. He does have a fairly long queue ..I will find out when I take my CD125 frame , tank etc to get painted Candy red in the next few weeks (too bulky to send to Germany).
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Dave
I can vouch for the quality of Menno's work, he matched the sidepanel perfectly with the one I sent, which isn't easy with candy. I believe the photos of the 400four sidepanels are mine. Worth waiting for in my opinion.
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Candy Red Wrinkle
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d247170136
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Full set >> https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w195399075
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There's a K1 Candy Ruby Red tank and side panels on Menno's site - http://www.tanklackieren.de/.cm4all/iproc.php/IMG_7757wma.jpg/scale_800_600%3Bdonotenlarge/IMG_7757wma.jpg (http://www.tanklackieren.de/.cm4all/iproc.php/IMG_7757wma.jpg/scale_800_600%3Bdonotenlarge/IMG_7757wma.jpg) I've decided from looking on there and from what people on here say that Menno is the way to go.
I was looking for suitable boxes today, I can get a one off that costs more to deliver than the box costs, most companies aren't interested in supplying just one box. Then I had a brainwave - a customer of mine sells mobility stuff, scooters, walking frames etc, and sure enough he has a room full of unwanted packaging, waiting to go to the tip. He wasn't there today, but I still I came out of there with a large enough box, full of bubble wrap. It was only a single skin box though, the only doulble skinned one there was sadly ripped open. He's back Thursday, I'll go back for another trawl then, but it looks like the solution.
Any suggestions from those in the know for a good carrier? Also do they usually pick up as part of the service or should I take the box to their depot to save money?
Looking into the headlamp bowl, I realised that other than removing the indicators, I may not have to disconnect everything after all, as it all goes through one large hole, not one for each loom. After changing the handlbars to ones with internal wiring and getting the clocks refurbished, nothing in there scares me anyway now.
I'll still have to drop the forks to get the ears off, not sure if the yokes needs to be loosened or not, I doubt it. When it all goes back together I'll use the opportunity to grease my headrace balls (this thread should now come up on iffy Google searches ;) ) Also I have a leaking fork seal, dunno why as its brand new, maybe the fork leg is the problem, I'll investigate while the forks are off.
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The set I sent to Menno last week was through ParcelMonkey with ParcelForce. Cost £13.80 inc VAT for 6.6kg, and you just drop it off at your local Post Office. I didn't pay for extra insurance which you may wish to do.
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Today I just send 400/4 Tank and side Panels with D.P.D. (booked through ParcelMonkey) to Piki in Spain in plastic box total 9.9 kg inc £100 insurance & about £22 total cost inc. pickup VAT included... nice, snap lid, plastic storage box BTW for you Piki if you are reading this :) I think the parcel could have been heavier and still the same it's the volume that bumps it up.
I seem to remember sending my 500K0 tank & panels to Menno last year with £100 insurance was about £16 via MyHermes International service (drop off yourself). Just watch the volume 'cos once over certain volume limit they won't accept it.
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Today I just send 400/4 Tank and side Panels with D.P.D. (booked through ParcelMonkey) to Piki in Spain in plastic box total 9.9 kg inc £100 insurance & about £22 total cost inc. pickup VAT included... nice, snap lid, plastic storage box BTW for you Piki if you are reading this :) I think the parcel could have been heavier and still the same it's the volume that bumps it up.
I seem to remember sending my 500K0 tank & panels to Menno last year with £100 insurance was about £16 via MyHermes International service (drop off yourself). Just watch the volume 'cos once over certain volume limit they won't accept it.
thank you mate ;)
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As a turn round time I try to have everything ready within 6 weeks.
That is because it normally takes about 2 weeks to have the tank (and other steel parts) chemically cleaned.
It might happen however a tank arrives a couple of days after I delivered a bunch of tanks at the cleaners.
Since it is about 40 miles one way I wait for the tanks to be finished before I drive over there again.
And sometimes the cleaners are busy as well.
It is an interesting place; they also clean VW vans (mark 1 and mark 2) for Volkswagen.
They put a whole samba t1 in the bath and see what is left og it when it comes out.
But also oldtimer Porsches and Mercedes etc. Sometimes my son (14) comes along and we wander through the storage trying to figure out
what is what wenn only bare metall is left.
Well when the tank comes back that is when my work starts. Time also depends on the tank itself. Some tanks ar simply easy. Two or three dents, thats it.
But quite often a tank is not so much dented but wavy, if you know what I mean. Tank looks fine but when you follow the line with your hands it has curves where there shouldn't be.
Prep work often takes time. Painting itself not so much although I leave extra drying time inbetween layers.
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The tanks and body set are in the post to Menno!
I found a suitable plastic box ar Home Bargains, it even has wheels. This is just making sure the tank fit OK, there was plenty of space for the panels headlamp and ears. The box closes with two padlock eyes in opposite corners, so I fastened these with large cable ties. Notice my tank has wrinkles, but not under the filler cap!
(https://s5.postimg.org/ncmfsukev/IMG_2045.jpg)
Here is the front end coming apart, I had to undo the lower brake hose to drop the forks, otherwise it was straightforward.
(https://s5.postimg.org/scjw0sq1j/IMG_2063.jpg)
Of course the Manchester weather being what is is, it decided now would be a good time to rain... >:(
The headlamp ears have rusted inside a bit, but you wouldn't know it from the outside.
I blagged a load of bubble wrap and wrapped everything to be a snug fit, then sorted out delivery via Parcelforce via Parcel Monkey, as recommended on here, it was about £13 with the VAT.
I just followed an eBay link on here to order a bunch of 3.5mm bullet connectors from China, I might as well tidy up the mess that lives inside the headlamp while its away. I'm guessing they should arrive before the paint is ready, but we'll see, the postage is free!
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You do know you cant use the"normal" el cheapo crimpers on the connectors you ordered. I have had Ripaults/Arkles 3000 ones for years bud i did buy a cheapo set from ebay a few months back if you want me to look up the number. You need jaws that have a Heart shape to fold the ears in on themselves, better detail if you want it later mate
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Link to the sort i bought, specifically to do multi block connectors but will do the loom ones as well
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multi-Functional-Mini-HS-202B-Crimping-Pliers-Terminals-Wires-Crimpper-Tool-/262371761669?hash=item3d16935e05:g:Oa8AAOSwo4pYlYre
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I bought some of those connectors .. the brass bits are fine .. boots a little on the loose side but cracking deal for the money. I dip them in tinning solution if the originals were tinned (those Chinese ones and the ones from the States are unplated brass). You are right to buy 3.5mm and not 3.9mm (3.9mm used on early 60's Honda's and some other Jap. brands)
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They've got to be better than all the nasty red bullet connectors in there at the moment, which have a habit of unplugging themselves at full lock or when the headlamp unit is replaced. I have a fairly decent substantial crimper rather than a cheapo one, which I bought at a Stafford show, not sure what make it is but I'll soon know if it is making a proper crimp when the connectors come, I know what they should be like.
My parcel left the UK at 3am, according to the tracking, once I had dropped it off I realised I'd forgotten to include the paint kit I'd bought on eBay and said I'd include. Trying to send it seperately I realise that may be a blessing - every carrier has a list of prohibited items, they all seem to include paint - if they find it they will destroy your package summarily, which could have included my body kit! I know how good Xray machines are at spotting liquids, as I'm always the one at the airport who forgot about his shower gel or whatever.
I can see that they don't want it escaping mid flight and gumming up the controls of their shiny new aeroplane, making it fall from the sky, the irony is that it arrived from Germany, via DHL and Parcelforce, who now won't carry it back there.
I'm not too fussed, as I'm guessing that the actual paint isn't a large part of the cost anyway, as its all in the preparation.
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I got some photos back from Menno after the metalwork came back from the acid bath treatment, he said it was OK to use them on the forum, as expected it wasn't pretty.
The reason for the bubble was petrol leaking through a crap welded repair on the tank top, circled and arrowed in the photo. What would have pierced it in the first place isn't clear to me, but it is what it is.
(https://s5.postimg.org/lha0ziilz/DSCF8534.jpg)
Now the tank is clean, Menno can reline the tank, leak fixed. This justifies the whole process really, if I had got my local bodyshop bloke to fill and repaint, it would inevitably have leaked back through the repair in time, causing me to lose the will to live.
He said when he got it that the tank was heavy, meaning a lot of filler. At some time in its past the tank has had the crap beaten out of it in an accident, been cut open, knocked straight and welded up again. Menno says they didn't do too bad a job, but he's marked where the low spots are. It explains why my tank trim wasn't too good a fit at the front right, he says he will try and improve the situation.
(https://s5.postimg.org/569x39qpj/DSCF8537.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.org/6y2vy3a1j/DSCF8527.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.org/vel1skihz/DSCF8531.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.org/8d4gmwivb/DSCF8539.jpg)
We knew the headlamp ears were rusty, someone has gone to a lot of effort to save them in the past. Menno says they are only good for the bin, but has sourced me some pattern ones in Germany.
(https://s5.postimg.org/xj5etqrvb/DSCF8542.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.org/4gr4qxdbb/DSCF8540.jpg)
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Gosh, that's not pretty. Like you say Dave, sending it to Menno means you are assured of a proper job with his excellent prep methods and will save you tears in the future.
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That repair weld on the top, sometimes when you get a big dent they weld a thick washer to the centre of it then put a slide hammer hooked through the washer. If it's then wacked outwards it can crack around there weld site.
It looks like the weld may have been from a process like that which they've then covered with poj.
Quite a lot to sort out but as you say, it'll be good to get it done properly.
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I personally would of gone for a new tank and ears.
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Well its taken so long that the board is asking me if I really want to necro such an old thread, but my tank, panels, headlamp and (new) ears are painted, and the result is stunning!
Menno sent me these pictures last night, he isn't going to post them back until the paint has had a chance to harden, we wouldn't want it stuck to the packaging, would we? He's also going to do another coat of laquer to seal the tank.
(https://s5.postimg.org/mbperusdz/DSCF9032.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.org/h0ai74qvr/DSCF9028.jpg)
The paint has that lovely deep OEM candy shine, comparable to the paint on this Vic World low miles sandcast. below, that he keeps for a standard to compare with:
(https://s5.postimg.org/azcta2z4n/17.jpg)
As opposed to this rather expensive restored K1 from, er, a well known dealer, which is just, well, red in comparison. I don't know if the stripes are stickers (Menno paints them) but they don't look that gold either.
(https://s5.postimg.org/ceedysd2f/$_57k.jpg)
The best recommendation I can give is that, as soon as I get my plastic box back from Germany, I am putting the CL450 parts in to send back to Menno.
I take Trigger's point that a new tank would have been easier, as mine had not only been around the block a few times, but had also been crashed into it, but I like to use as many original 1971 parts as I can, otherwise I could just build a bike from NOS parts and chuck the original stuff away.
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It looks stunning Dave. I love it when Menno sends the photos through, it increases the level of anticipation ready for when it turns up . Never disappointed and always very, very pleased with his work. A true professional and craftsman.
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Beautiful job. I had a 500 done in candy ruby red a couple of years ago by Menno and it's still stunning and drain and store the tank inside in the winter. Now I'm feeling the urge to send off another parcel to Germany.
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That's stunning paintwork. Menno does a great job and as Julie said earlier, when he posts the progress photos the anticipation builds.
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Can’t wait to see it on your K1 dave...
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my favourite colour 8), cheers Mick ;)
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Good to see you back here Mick, how’s the leg?
I was up your way for Mother’s Day, we took her to the Shrimp Inn in Morecambe for lunch.
Yes we both made a good colour choice, I was torn between the candy red and gold. The word of the day is definitely ‘stunning’, Menno mentions it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something on his website, he’s obviously done his.
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Hi Dave , my legs getting better very slowly , hopefully by the end of the year it will be fully healed , cheers :)
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(https://s5.postimg.cc/agjrbohzb/DSCF9085.jpg)
Wonderful things arrived in two big boxes today, with a shine so deep you could go for a swim in it.
When she came home, the wife's first word was that S word again, 'stunning!'
This afternoon I was meant to be working, but was actually fitting badges, latches and things. Tonight I shall be mostly taking the front end off to fit the headlamp ears, before I reacquaint myself with the spaghetti in the headlamp.
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Nice ;)
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Stunning colour and stunning work by Menno again. Considering the condition your tank etc was in, I bet you're well made up with the outcome.
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My favorite 750 colour - really lovely job
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The only thing better then a red 750 is a green 750 ;D :P
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The only thing better then a red 750 is a green 750 ;D :P
The only trouble with red Mick is you have to keep it out of the sun 8)
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I know that problem as I recently sold my pinkish truck.
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Wonderful paintwork by Menno, the bike will look fantastic wearing those.
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The only trouble with red Mick is you have to keep it out of the sun 8)
In the unlikely event of it being sunny for two years running, can we have a shady spot for Crich please Trigger - see I'm paranoid already! Perhaps I should buy a small fold up gazebo to keep on the carrier....
After the long wait I wasn't hanging around....
(https://s5.postimg.cc/zbq823qrr/IMG_2509.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.cc/571rgqdyv/IMG_2508.jpg)
The scary bit when sorting the tank was the latch, as well as chasing out the holes with a drill bit in my hand, I had to cut and file at paint and filler to get the latch back in its slot, one slip and it would have been disaster.. :o
The front end is back together, but I'm not bleeding the brakes until I'm sure its all in the right order, to be honest I've forgotten how the hell the gaiters stay up, I know it involves the chrome ring and the lip on the ears, but it isn't obvious.
Only when all the lights, indicators etc are working OK can I think about booking an MOT, then it will be game on for the summer.....
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Looking good Dave. You’ve got the chrome ring in exactly the right orientation on the LHS fork (as you’re sitting on the bike). The ring sits above the lip of the lower part of the fork ear (the cutout is there to clear the lower triple profile). Then you just massage the gaitor over the lip of the fork ear lower and it’ll nestle up against the chrome ring nicely. 30s job.
Oh and make sure you’re not wearing your diamond studded leather chaps when you’re doing it - don’t want to scratch the paintwork on the 911 with your ass..
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I'd kick the bloody car out of the garage to give yourself more room to work around the bike, much less chance of damaging that glorious paintwork (I learnt the hard way!)
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I'd kick the bloody car out of the garage to give yourself more room to work around the bike, much less chance of damaging that glorious paintwork (I learnt the hard way!)
I was thinking last night, when the scene looked as below, if a £12K(ish) bike fell on a £40K(ish) car, how far away would you hear me scream? :(
(https://s5.postimg.cc/7pnghlf6f/IMG_2503.jpg)
Although I can get the bike out, moving the car isn't an option because the side of the house is scaffolded for the next two weeks (subject to the weather) while the house's pointing is done. Shame I didn't think of that when I booked the 911 to do the parade laps at next week's Donington Historic, instead I'm going to have to slum it and go with a mate in his Maserati. In the day the garage door stays firmly shut as I don't want the builder seeing whats in there, not that I dont trust him or anything....
The car is possibly being sold once Classic Le Mans is over, if it is, what next, seeing as I will suddenly have garage space and funds? Head says be sensible, heart says restore a sandcast.
Thanks for the tips on the gaiters James.
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Iv never managed to get my head round the gaiters I just faff around and somehow they end up fitting.
I chucked my dads car out off the garage and got a bike bench years ago and have never looked back ;)
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I still have no idea what keeps the gaiters up really, even now they are on:
(https://s5.postimg.cc/u3rtbr4yf/IMG_2512.jpg)
Me being paranoid about brake fluid, bleeding the brakes now the front end is back together - the tank is off again for safety!
(https://s5.postimg.cc/l8qz188g7/IMG_2513.jpg)
I'll do more pics when it sees the light of day, I've promised to send Menno a couple for his website, but you get the gist, the first time all the red bits have been back where they should be since they were blue bits. Menno told me the left the tank standing with the hole, where the fuel leak caused the original bubble at the bottom, and put more epoxy in, so it shouldn't trouble me again.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/qk5vm2ck7/IMG_2511.jpg)
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The more I look at the pictures the more I like it. I may have to get a red one to add to my collection 8)
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It looks really good in that colour, be nice to see it when out in sunlight.
On replacing the car, how about an Italian Honda? A Benelli Sei 750 to keep the six cylinder theme alive, fabulous set of pipes too.
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Don't start Hairy off I know he's itching for me to post about something else braking ;D
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On replacing the car, how about an Italian Honda? A Benelli Sei 750 to keep the six cylinder theme alive, fabulous set of pipes too.
You are very naughty giving me ideas like that, after all the Sei is basically 1.5 CB500’s, so wouldn’t be rocket surgery to sort out. Italian electrics aren’t great, unless they are Nippon Denso, like on Laverdas.
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[attachimg=1]
There you go, it'd pair well in that colour with you 750 ;D
Mick's favourite as well. If you had one of those Mick, a green Italian Honda, it would really cheer hairy up ;)
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Well, why is there no vomiting smiley on here? Proves a point though, the shitalians have to steal someone else's design, then completely balls it up making it from monkey sh%t metals with deliquescent electrical systems!
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
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Don't think I haven't thought about the Benelli but three Italian bike would probably push the most die hard Italian fan over the edge. ;D
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You'd have to buy some black cats to swing the balance of luck :)
Hairy is not taking into account that Italian engine's always have more horses and Italian Mph is always faster than other country's ;)
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You have to sacrifice reliability for a couple more HP. That's what I tell my self every other day with the Peg it has the same engine as the BMW but an overly complicated head to gain them.
Only the Italians can make a single complicated
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Back on the subject, this could be my last post on the thread, if nothing goes wrong. I can leave you to debate Italian bikes or whatever all you want, but the blurg is dead and the CB750 lives again, in all its new candy redness!
Fitting the tank I was extra careful not to damage the paint on the yoke bolt at the back of the steering stem, that how I ended up buying a touch up kit when it was blue. >:( I noticed a really nice freshly restored gold CB750 K0 on eBay, with a chip taken out of the tank in exactly the same place, I know just how that feels. Maybe I should make a foam or rubber guard just for tank fitting, but probably not until I have chipped it first.
Anyway here it is in daylight, all badged and stickered. The tank decal (genuine) is debatable, but correct for my late K1 - I think its a nice finishing touch with its slightly dodgy 'Engrish', and you wouldn't want me forgetting to Preserve Nature, would you? I have a black one as well which is less shouty, but I'm fairly sure that red bikes will have had a white sticker.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/5nf7r7qaf/IMG_2526.jpg)
A couple of pics I took an a (freezing) Saddleworth Moor, complete with seasonal wild daffodils. I meant to take the 'good' camera, but forgot, so had to use my phone. Menno, if you see this feel free to copy them for your web site, pm me if you want full size images or something better.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/rzd0klx47/IMG_2517.jpg)
(https://s5.postimg.cc/84qyygurb/IMG_2521.jpg)
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Love it can't wait to see it up close.
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It looks superb, very nice to have that around.
On that tank touching the fork clamp, I usually put two fingers under there with one hand at the back to put it onto the frame mounts. It's quite tight but it just squeezes your fingers abit and never knocks the tank. :)
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Two fingers works well that's what I do.
I normally remove the seat as well after catching my 550 tank on a bit of sharp seat trim
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Only just spotted the final pics Dave.
Wow - she looks stunning, absolutely stunning. Glad the hard work/wait has paid off.
James
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Hi Dave, that is indeed a very nice bike. Really beautiful.
I am proud I could contribute a bit of work to complete your bike.
Thank you for the pictures.
I will pick one and put it on my site in the near future.
So lets change this post from 'return of the blurg' to:
The blurg defeated.
Cheers, Menno.
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More glamour photography from behind the bins. The oil change sticker is one of Piki's.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/iwy6oyo2v/IMG_2525.jpg)
And out on the moors. Note to self: Turn the bloody petrol tap off when you stop, but do double check that you turn it back on before you set off again - it may start OK with what's in the float bowls, but you don't get far. :-[
(https://s5.postimg.cc/4clp7onl3/IMG_2524.jpg)
Thanks for all your comments, and yes, thankyou Menno, I have changed the thread title 8)
Menno, I am sending the funny shaped (for the German post) plastic box back to you, with the CL450 tank, panels, headlamp shell and ears inside. Tank and panels for the same candy blue as James' CL450, there is a paint sample where I removed a panel badge that has only seen the light in the last week after being in the dark since 1969 - see my CL450 resto thread for a photo.
One of the cross pipes at the back of the tank is blocked, despite me pushing bits of wire down, hopefully this will clear when the acid has done its thing. Petrol came out when I drained it, so hopefully its something that hasn't been stuck in there for long A blast from your airline may do it, I only had a footpump. :(
I hope this is all Ok, Menno look out for the return of the funny shaped box. :) The German Postal Service wanted to charge Menno much extra to send it back to me, with my tank inside, because it was an irregular shape. He took it home, put the box inside a larger oblong carton and took it back. Hey Presto - no problem! Very German, as he says.