Post by: oldboy on November 18, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
Post by: Seabeowner on November 18, 2019, 06:49:56 PM
Post by: oldboy on November 18, 2019, 07:51:37 PM
Post by: Trigger on November 18, 2019, 10:32:58 PM
Post by: deltarider on November 19, 2019, 06:58:48 AM
All 500s K0-K2 had the long damper and this was screwed into the top bolt of the fork leg.Not on my K2. Scroll down in: http://www.honda4fun.com/home/faq/generali/111-cb500-differenze-k0-k1-k2. The Parts List for my model so far is 100% accurate.
Post by: Trigger on November 19, 2019, 07:38:48 AM
All 500s K0-K2 had the long damper and this was screwed into the top bolt of the fork leg.Not on my K2. Scroll down in: http://www.honda4fun.com/home/faq/generali/111-cb500-differenze-k0-k1-k2. The Parts List for my model so far is 100% accurate.
As I said, don't believe everything you read. A quick scroll down and incorrect info on the switch gear, master cylinder, sub loom, and grab rail :o
Post by: oldboy on November 19, 2019, 09:02:27 AM
Post by: JamesH on November 19, 2019, 10:57:44 AM
In the process of rebuilding a supposedly totally rebuilt 1972. 500. (think I've been fleeced!!) When I rode the bike briefly the front end felt rock hard. Played about with different fork oil and check that everything was straight. Today I removed the fork springs which measured 480mm in length. According to the manual they should be around 425 to 450mm. Plus also there is no long damper rod in these forks making me think there later forks. Would I be right in this assumption?? I've also ordered some progressive springs from Bike Barn as my previous order with Performance Parts never did arrive after waiting nearly six weeks (buyers beware!!)They sound suspiciously like 750 springs...
Post by: deltarider on November 19, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
The topic was the damper. Nevertheless all info for the K2 model (ED, F, G) there is correct. Also the CB500K2 Parts List for continental Europe is correct. The only thing you could maybe debate on, is the depiction of the front spring, but who can blame that Japanese fellow for borrowing a pic from elsewhere to avoid drawing all these windings over and over again. ;DAll 500s K0-K2 had the long damper and this was screwed into the top bolt of the fork leg.Not on my K2. Scroll down in: http://www.honda4fun.com/home/faq/generali/111-cb500-differenze-k0-k1-k2. The Parts List for my model so far is 100% accurate.
As I said, don't believe everything you read. A quick scroll down and incorrect info on the switch gear, master cylinder, sub loom, and grab rail :o
Post by: Trigger on November 19, 2019, 01:00:47 PM
The topic was the damper. Nevertheless all info for the K2 model (ED, F, G) there is correct. Also the CB500K2 Parts List for continental Europe is correct. The only thing you could maybe debate on, is the depiction of the front spring, but who can blame that Japanese fellow for borrowing a pic from elsewhere to avoid drawing all these windings over and over again. ;DAll 500s K0-K2 had the long damper and this was screwed into the top bolt of the fork leg.Not on my K2. Scroll down in: http://www.honda4fun.com/home/faq/generali/111-cb500-differenze-k0-k1-k2. The Parts List for my model so far is 100% accurate.
As I said, don't believe everything you read. A quick scroll down and incorrect info on the switch gear, master cylinder, sub loom, and grab rail :o
If you scroll to the top of this thread, the topic is 1972 500. No mention of a K2 ;)
Post by: deltarider on November 19, 2019, 07:14:01 PM
If you scroll to the top of this thread, the topic is 1972 500. No mention of a K2 ;)With al due respect, my reply (#4) was a reaction to the statement in reply#1 where it says:
Quote
All 500s K0-K2 had the long damper and this was screwed into the top bolt of the fork leg.That statement is incorrect. I've limited my reaction to the topic: the fork and did not bring up anything else like: switch gear, grab rails or whatever. FYI, the European K2 came with the same front legs that were on the CB550K2, the ones that have the front disc mounts both left and right. All these details are in the parts lists. I strongly recommend them, the more now various models surface just about anywhere in the world. Of all the Honda documents that I've seen, the parts lists have proven to be the most reliable by far. The Shop Manuals may have errors and so do the Owner's Manuals, the parts lists that I've seen, don't. No wonder; dealers had to rely on them.
Post by: oldboy on November 19, 2019, 08:37:18 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 19, 2019, 08:43:47 PM
Post by: Bryanj on November 19, 2019, 11:35:19 PM
Post by: deltarider on November 20, 2019, 07:36:04 AM
There was a CB500K2-A marketed in the US in 1973.
The different K2 for continental Europe did not arrive before 1976. It came in 3 submodels:
ED European Direct Sales, F the French type and G the Germany type.
For those interested, its parts list is here:
http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_1.pdf
http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_2.pdf
http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_3.pdf
http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_4.pdf
This CB500K2 (ED, F, G) was probably assembled in 1975-6 and marketed in continental Europe in 1976-7.
Partslist of the rare CB500K3, a model probably assembled in 1977 and marketed in continental Europe in 1977-8, is here: http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500-550/CB500-550_K3-K4.pdf
Also useful to identify, after scrolling down, can be: http://www.honda4fun.com/home/faq/generali/111-cb500-differenze-k0-k1-k2.
I have no knowledge of any CB500 model nor CB550 that is not covered in one of the parts lists found here:
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb500 *
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb550
Identification is relative easy: compare engine- and framenumber to those found in the first few pages of the parts lists. You only have to do this once and you'll immediately have all the info on: what carbs fitted, area codes, color schemes and what has been modified from what serial number on within that particular models production timespan. That info is a starting point. If you encounter parts on your model that seem odd, you could consult the other parts lists in an effort to reconstruct what POs may have changed and to verify if such a part is compatible.
I feel the need to apologise for repeating this message so many times. Believe me, my initial goal was to offer access to documents to all of us and so outroot unnecessary posts. The irony now is that I am repeating posts myself.
* Unfortunataly some of the parts lists published at Honda4Fun, in particular the early CB500 models, are in a poor resolution. They may be found in a beter quality elsewhere, possibly here?
Post by: deltarider on November 20, 2019, 12:55:35 PM
All 500s K0-K2 had the long damper and this was screwed into the top bolt of the fork leg.It was my concern that other readers that have an interest in the topic, could have drawn the wrong conclusion from that false statement. Hence my correction. I'd thought that was clear from the beginning. My apologies if that has not been the case. And with that I yield back. ;)
Post by: oldboy on November 20, 2019, 04:17:17 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 20, 2019, 04:26:26 PM
Nothing on the log book and no Vin plate!!Which wouls suggest it's a UK model CB500/4 K1.
Post by: oldboy on November 20, 2019, 04:56:46 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 20, 2019, 05:00:44 PM
That's good to know. Just been going through the comparison site that somebody kindly put up and to my amazement most of the parts fitted are right for that model, which is a result!!That's great. Just be mindful that the UK model CB500/4 K1 is unlike the same model for any other country / market. We have a UK K1 so if you need any reference photos, or detailed info just ask anytime.
Post by: deltarider on November 20, 2019, 07:02:30 PM
Today I removed the fork springs which measured 480mm in length. According to the manual they should be around 425 to 450mm. Plus also there is no long damper rod in these forks making me think there later forks. Would I be right in this assumption??My guess is you have the same frontlegs that are on my CB500K2-ED*. Last time I had my springs out, they measured over 460mm. Also mine are the type legs without rods. So you just have the later model legs. That's no problem as long they are both the same. BTW, I have best results with fork oil wt 7,5, 140-145cc in each leg. If they are straight, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't work.
You may also read my post here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151936.msg1736598.html#msg1736598
* The US CB500K2-A still had the old rodstyle dampers.
Post by: oldboy on November 20, 2019, 07:59:42 PM
Post by: deltarider on November 21, 2019, 09:41:59 AM
Post by: oldboy on November 21, 2019, 09:52:11 AM
Post by: deltarider on November 21, 2019, 10:25:50 AM
Remains one other thing to be adressed. There has been talk like:
Never believe everything you read in a manual or a parts book
Now I know of errors in manuals, even Honda's. I collect these errors, so you can do me no greater favour than report them to me. The score so far is that, although I have found quite a few in the Honda Shop manual, in the parts lists that concern the CB500/550 series, I have find... none, although I have some doubts concerning those compiled by American Honda. I volunteer to administrate eventual errors. To be continued.
Post by: Seabeowner on November 21, 2019, 10:36:29 AM
Post by: Trigger on November 21, 2019, 11:37:54 AM
Pic number 1 is 550 F2 and the second is 500 four K1.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Post by: deltarider on November 21, 2019, 11:39:19 AM
Delta, Norton on my PC blocks the Honda4fun site as a dangerous website. Used it in the past.Sorry to read that. I don't have that problem and I have no clue what could be the danger.
Anyway, you could also consult: http://cbfourclub.nl/?page_id=1238 where you'll find more or less the same content in pics. You have to click <Onderlinge verschillen in de CB500 modellen> however.
Post by: oldboy on November 21, 2019, 08:43:34 PM
Post by: deltarider on November 22, 2019, 06:42:30 AM
Post by: Trigger on November 22, 2019, 07:10:43 AM
Thanks Trigger, So next question, is it the fork bottoms are longer?? Fork tubes shorter, springs the same rate. All I can tell you that it certainly feels very funny on the front end and not the sort of thing you would chuck into a corner. Tube are straight and forks not twisted, but quite hard and not much movement. Springs are far longer than the manual states, nearly 480mm. Changed the oil to 10w and waiting for progressive spring. 550 and 500 spring lengths are the same according to the manual. Time will tell!!
Short cases come with longer stanchions ( tubes ) and the springs are different. On the 550K they are different than the 550 F2 / K3.
I am trying to help another member that is local to me but, he has the short cases on a 550K3, which are bottoming out ;)
The original 500 for cases came with only one case that you could mount a caliper (left side) and a lot of riders removed the early forks so they could fit a double disc and caliper set up.
Post by: oldboy on November 22, 2019, 08:48:37 AM
Post by: Trigger on November 22, 2019, 09:07:54 AM
Getting more and more complicated, (think I'll fit a set of Ohlins ;D ) They do have gaiters fitted and at least now I'm beginning to now what I'm looking at, confusingly!!
I have mentioned to the member who has the bottoming out problem that, I maybe a good idea to swap lower cases and springs with you or at least compare spring length ;)
Post by: oldboy on November 22, 2019, 01:18:26 PM
Post by: Erny on November 23, 2019, 10:44:07 PM
I measured mine that has now 462mm.
Looking into service manual, it says 451,7mm as standard for both, 500 (page 140) and 550K1 (page 142).
But forks for 500 and 550K1 are different so I suspect there is mistake in service manual.
Does anyone know proper standard length of 550K1 fork spring and its service limit?
Post by: Trigger on November 23, 2019, 11:11:42 PM
If you allow me, I have one question about correct spring length for 550K1.
I measured mine that has now 462mm.
Looking into service manual, it says 451,7mm as standard for both, 500 (page 140) and 550K1 (page 142).
But forks for 500 and 550K1 are different so I suspect there is mistake in service manual.
Does anyone know proper standard length of 550K1 fork spring and its service limit?
475 mm on K0,K1,K2 and the spring in the picture is not oem ;)
Post by: Erny on November 23, 2019, 11:38:52 PM
so I suppose OEM are not progressive, right?
Any idea where to buy OEM like or other recommended alternative?
I need to do something to avoid horrible bouncing I have...
Post by: Trigger on November 23, 2019, 11:59:08 PM
Post by: Erny on November 24, 2019, 12:05:38 AM
Worst it is at stable speed around 40mph
But I want to start with full rebuild. Springs are definitely on the list. But where to get them? :-\
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 06:58:23 AM
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 07:19:47 AM
typical as many others has - forks does not react on small bumps - looks as too high striction.That's the typical speed where many bikes of that era show let us say a less than ideal behaviour.
Worst it is at stable speed around 40mph
Quote
But I want to start with full rebuild.Why? What starting point is that? What is your diagnosis? What you could do however, is loosen bolts and then tighten them again in the right order. I'm sure others will chime in to tell the right procedure, that gave them best results.
Quote
Springs are definitely on the list. But where to get them?I have no indication yours are the wrong type or have passed the servicable limit. Mine have the same length, have done 135.000 km and are still OK. You may also want to read this: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151936.msg1736598.html#msg1736598
But if you must... parts number is: 51401-374-003.
https://www.cmsnl.com/products/springfrontcush_51401374003/#.Xdovgq_vJVc
I wouldn't be surprised that after ordering, you will find they will have exact the same length as yours.
As I said before: the Shop Manual CB500-550 has some errors. In my experience the parts lists have none, be it that the depiction of the springs is not very accurate but... who can blame that poor Japanese schlemiel that had to draw all those windings... ;)
Post by: Trigger on November 24, 2019, 08:18:03 AM
Not so fast, those are the progressive springs I have in my CB500K2-ED and they are definitely OEM. These springs were also on: the C550K, CB550K!, CB550K2 and the CB500T. They measure the same as mine and should be fine. I have best results with max 140-145 cc of 7,5 weight fork oil.
You do make me chuckle in the morning with your ignorance to parts and you just quote what you have read or heard, without having any real hands on experience of all SOHC units ;)
The measurement i gave was from a NOS 374 spring out of the packet with numbers ending in 000. Todays listed spring is ending in 003, that means it has been superseded or it comes from another supplier meaning, it will be a different spring. Boing goes Zebedee ;D
Parts lists have many errors to them and, I would not go on CMSNL. As a good example this week is that I sold off a load of 500 air box brackets (323) and everyone that ordered them by part number said, that they had received the wrong bracket as CMS had the wrong picture of the bracket against the wrong part number. But, the ones I sent out were correct ::) ::)
Post by: Bryanj on November 24, 2019, 08:30:21 AM
Post by: Trigger on November 24, 2019, 08:34:21 AM
Parts books correct! Check the gearbox page and explain to me where the forth selector in the quantity list fits.
That's the part you order for your spares box mate ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Bryanj on November 24, 2019, 08:53:17 AM
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 09:14:53 AM
Back to the subject. It takes very little to create stiction. I'm confident some of the experienced mecs here will chime in and advise Ernie the correct mounting procedure and with that I yield back.
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 09:37:15 AM
The measurement i gave was from a NOS 374 spring out of the packet with numbers ending in 000. Todays listed spring is ending in 003, that means it has been superseded or it comes from another supplier meaning, it will be a different spring. Boing goes Zebedee ;DFirst, I'm sorry, but part 51401-374-000 does not exist, nowhere. Part 51401-374-003 does. Second I'd like to inform you that the last digit in a Honda part number refers to the subcontractor, the two digits next (left) to it refer to an eventual modification. BTW, I tell nothing new, these basic info is found in the first few pages of some CB500/550 parts lists.
Post by: Erny on November 24, 2019, 12:08:25 PM
So I consider mine as OEM based of Delta's info
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 12:49:50 PM
Post by: Bryanj on November 24, 2019, 01:12:01 PM
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 03:08:56 PM
Post by: Erny on November 24, 2019, 05:38:06 PM
My friend had a look into CB500T HSM, here are data:
Free standard length : 466mm
Service limit : 440mm
So my springs are OK - no need to change them :)
Oil volume is another story - my CB550K1 genuine owner's manual says 160-166 cc (5.4-5.6 ozs).
Post by: Nurse Julie on November 24, 2019, 06:09:51 PM
So, pring length is now clarified.Are 500/T forks the same as 500/4 then?
My friend had a look into CB500T HSM, here are data:
Free standard length : 466mm
Service limit : 440mm
So my springs are OK - no need to change them :)
Oil volume is another story - my CB550K1 genuine owner's manual says 160-166 cc (5.4-5.6 ozs).
Post by: Erny on November 24, 2019, 06:11:40 PM
Others not (legs, pipes..)
Seems there are some differences
Post by: deltarider on November 24, 2019, 09:58:50 PM
Post by: Erny on November 25, 2019, 05:57:58 AM
Post by: deltarider on November 25, 2019, 04:37:55 PM
I need to do something to avoid horrible bouncing I have...If you mean up and down, here a few tips. Whenever renewing the front tyre, have a close look at the rims inside where the wall of the tyre sits. Often crusts of rust are overlooked causing a tyre not to sit a 100% evenly. Tyre could develop a flat spot during long periods of inactivity like hibernation. Stiction is often caused by incorrect mounting of the front legs. I was told that 'unrest' in front often has its cause in the rear.