Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Mikep328 on August 01, 2023, 03:29:00 PM
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I see a variety of venders with the "same item" - anything from carb screws to brake calipers at dramatically different prices. One example is a carb gasket set that is around £16 per carb from DSS (£66 for four) vs around £41 for a set of four carbs from 4 into 1.
I see the same sort of variation with other items/vendors, including ebay vendors.
Using the carb gasket set as an example, I'm fine paying £66 rather than £41 if the parts are better quality/fit correctly, etc. OTOH, I don't see any reason to pay £20 more if there is no difference.
Are there actually different manufacturers for these pattern parts - say carb gaskets - or is there only one that all the resellers purchase from and then re-package/price? Are there venders that are known to be great and some to stay away from?
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Carb sets buy from nurse julie on here, the paper gaskets are normaly ok to reuse and julie has sized all the O rings in viton to be safe with ethanol, brass bits get cleaned or buy honda genuine not a pattern kit as they are known for bad sizing.
Some pattern parts are ok but frequently differe from original, especialy electrics with wrong wire colours.
Your best bet is to put up on here a part you want and we will normally tell you of any horror suppliers
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Thanks for the info; I'll order the Rings from Nurse Julie!
Re parts I want, My first would be: Which brand/supplier for braided steel brake lines?
Second - the DSS brake rotor. I asked Dss if the brake rotor material would have a better friction coefficient than the OEM. The reply was that it should because it is of better material for that purpose than the OEM but they had done no actual testing to verify it. Anybody tried one or is there another higher friction rotor option?
Third... where to get HONDA OEM carb hard parts - jets/needles, etc.
Can't wait to start spending money! ::)
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Bryan has covered carb parts, a lot of other parts like gearbox bearings, cam chains standard & HD from Ken (Oddjob) a member here.
Good brand wheel bearings & steering shaft kits can be found online e.g. Pyramid Parts rather than just say DS for example. Parts like Primary Drive chains ask here for advice about other bike manufacturers that use the same chain.
I bought some excellent handlebars for my 500 from Bertrum's Bits as has been said worth asking first, you can save a few quid by asking the question then bide your time for some advice. There are members here who can supply bearing races as well as Max who makes bespoke wheel spacers etc in SS.
Hard to find or used parts always worth asking under the Desperately Seeking Section. Lots of good brakers about like twowheelspares on e-bay as well as Steve at 400fourbits.
You will have no trouble filling the money pit as you progress.
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As Ted says, ask here first.
Amazed at how many say they've bought stuff at highly inflated prices only to find them half the price on here.
I wouldn't buy the DS rotor TBH, what's wrong with the old one first?
Brake lines, I buy HEL as their after sales is second to none.
Don't replace the brass ware in the carbs, use original if at all possible, if nothing else take that on board, the amount of members who have done that and wished they hadn't is beyond belief.
Lots of parts can be sourced far cheaper than original, it's knowing which parts are ok and which are not that you need to focus on and ask here first. Primary chain for instance, DON'T buy the Honda one, same chain far cheaper is the Kawasaki 92057-1011, half the price, same chain despite what other members say this is true.
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines. The OEM brake rotor is perfectly OK as far as condition but some brake rotor materials allegedly have a higher friction co-efficient than others. DSS makes that claim re theirs vs OEM but I'd want some objective verification to that before spending money on that particular component in my "improve the brake" Jihad.
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DS will say anything to sell stuff, don't believe a word they say.
Stay with the OE rotor and try different pads, far cheaper in the end. Ask others what works, although TBH that's like asking people about their choice of engine oil, a topic best avoided IMO.
I'd have said ring HEL to order the lines, they always give me a significant discount whenever I do that and you can choose the type of end you want, some like right into the caliper and some prefer to only go to the hard line for instance.
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines. The OEM brake rotor is perfectly OK as far as condition but some brake rotor materials allegedly have a higher friction co-efficient than others. DSS makes that claim re theirs vs OEM but I'd want some objective verification to that before spending money on that particular component in my "improve the brake" Jihad.
I found Brembo pads way better than the standard DS ones fwiw & not daft money as has been said do not believe all that sellers say about materials etc.
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines.
Who the hell are HEL though? ???
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines. The OEM brake rotor is perfectly OK as far as condition but some brake rotor materials allegedly have a higher friction co-efficient than others. DSS makes that claim re theirs vs OEM but I'd want some objective verification to that before spending money on that particular component in my "improve the brake" Jihad.
Squeeze anything hard enough and it'll have high chance of being fine.
Yes there's so many claims made, along with so little empirical data to support them.
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines.
Who the hell are HEL though? ???
HEL do all the brake lines for BSB amongst others.
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re Brembo brake pads - I looked for Brembo and Ferrodo pads for the CB 400 but couldn't find any. Ferodo ST pads had a lot more bite than any other pads I tried on my Norton Commando.
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Hope this link works same pads in 400 & 500 iirc.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32509540548P6
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225664181016?epid=1850700684&hash=item348aa22318:g:UO4AAOSwANhifbP6&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABIJvdxKnf0t2BQMXvyfJlMVhwxNbisEIoF%2BQ1ClZEdhPh%2B5NQxRqepqRMeiJpoL6TU4veKtqNcTjn7VATzYAMiX%2ByFUeKvj0x3qvHlwqUzjLaD1uFfNDWgtOD02mW3K27LmPxY4CnbN6WGWGDZMBVbVNcbt3AzpabzUD6jNjVd0nHSRm%2BY9tFIWOJF3UkHJQMIORqFEuCrz1IGt7KrgkAJ310KqzyTWl%2F27%2BDv2QmU%2FwP4bxGw897PHyAHQRFGa73JAgsER0Gx00%2BTdG4Z6UBdzZ8UvkMVBZ%2FvclmPtka3dFhr98NpVUsz6GbSoZGnEP19mGB%2F0xbZtLQ6ESlpiHIHGBlglKd3000o7ylDtnzZGi6DOzkQwUPgcwMlPbBzdJSnQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMpoPF17Zi
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines.
Who the hell are HEL though? ???
https://www.helperformance.com/ (https://www.helperformance.com/)
I needed a bespoke line for remote clutch bleeding for my AH Sprite (highly tuned) and they have an online custom configurator with a pictorial layout - https://auto.helperformance.com/custom-car-braided-brake-lines (https://auto.helperformance.com/custom-car-braided-brake-lines)
Very reasonably priced and quick.
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"Hope this link works same pads in 400 & 500 iirc."
Thanks! Link works for the Brembos!
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I'm obviously biased due to a terrible experience, but I would give the widest berth possible with Honda classics restoration limited of Daventry. They may have parts, but place is going bust/tits up, closing call it what you like, but they are not to be trusted.. Phew, I feel better now :-)
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I'm obviously biased due to a terrible experience, but I would give the widest berth possible with Honda classics restoration limited of Daventry. They may have parts, but place is going bust/tits up, closing call it what you like, but they are not to be trusted.. Phew, I feel better now :-)
At Honda, he was know as Dodgy Rodger ;)
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Definitely the case that naming & shaming might not always put a firm out of business or make it change it's ways but it does make one feel better to tell folk. 8) 8) 8)
I think we need an update here on the current state of your 400 project so we can help you move forwards.
A trouble shared & all that George is a trouble halved or is it doubled!
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Unfortunately not for all,of us. I get a “ we have looked everywhere…” message from ebay.
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I'm obviously biased due to a terrible experience, but I would give the widest berth possible with Honda classics restoration limited of Daventry. They may have parts, but place is going bust/tits up, closing call it what you like, but they are not to be trusted.. Phew, I feel better now :-)
At Honda, he was know as Dodgy Rodger ;)
Dodgy Rodger,, thanks for making me spit out my coffee with laughing,,, I genuinely feel better :-)
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Unfortunately not for all,of us. I get a “ we have looked everywhere…” message from ebay.
Try the second link Phil, that works. They are Brembo ceramic pads, I've used the SBS ceramic and they are really good.
On that note, just shows you how incompetent these sellers are, you select those Brembo pads and tell it they are for a CB500K 1972 and it says they don't fit. That's odd because the 400 and 500/550 pads are the same, check on their other items and they list the exact same pad as now fitting the CB500K. Even Teds link says they don't even fit the CB400F, they are for the CB400A and CB400T. Get it right fellas, it's not rocket science.
Same pads, different bike.
If anyone buys a set please let me know how they fit the caliper body, the SBS ones I bought are a little loose around the locating dowel at the top of the pad, this makes me think they'll rattle a bit when used. I did complain to SBS about them but never got a reply.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325726294495?epid=1850700684&hash=item4bd6ccd1df:g:UO4AAOSwANhifbP6&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0NWztS6wOZ3r5r2dKLQSslROduB%2B7bDvCAfNMixaG6bBtx6X28%2F40LgO2A%2FfoAShj08FOtxGmhkoE%2ByaJUmCBXqk8g92vG90BwcuKztXcAP7OlfRdnd7xATUS8ivkUviNMqqWbXAOBtzJWOoHBR%2FpK5JQ%2BkD6deBx2j%2F9fKSJgRPeaStF%2FJsXR4zTYL5ZQ7f8vq%2F0A4HQzlbxDsdKQXelVjolSXShZ2WAgrB9IW2WZNy1A8pV9wQ9KRWXKwacVW5FcNjleuweRbo0t1sgUnhnw8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_ScyY24Yg
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I have had a lot of parts from Honda Classics and never a problem, mostly stainless caliper pistons
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As total newby here I don't know ANYTHING about the vendors/quality but, FWIW, a few days ago I ordered parts from both David Silver and Honda Classics. Both orders arrived two days later...as did the HEL brake line order. So as far as delivering an order, I was quite impressed.
I have all the parts - mixed between DSS/Hclassics - I need to go through the front brake so that's the project for tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if it makes sufficient improvement in the front brake performance. I have to admit based on all the posts I've read re this, I'm thinking it won't... :(
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You could always consider having the disc drilled etc that is supposed to make a difference especially in wet weather performance.
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Forgive me if I seem a bit of a numpty, but re, the drilling of discs, I assumed that, apart from being fashionable, it helped with water dispersal and cooling. The brake works by friction between the pad and metal, not fresh air. The same argument as to tyres, it's the rubber which grips the road surface, not the tread. The tread is there just to disperse water. It's Friday evening, I've had a couple of beers and a good meal! Stay safe everyone. Mike.
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I have had a lot of parts from Honda Classics and never a problem, mostly stainless caliper pistons
I've no doubt honda classics are fine for getting parts sent out, they are closing and now clearing stock. Look forward to seeing Rodgers face when the rogue traders team turn up in Daventry,,
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It says on the website buisiness for sale as he wants to retire, that sounds reasonable to me, like i said i have ordered stuff several times both direct and via ebay and everything has turned up promptly and in full.
Any buisiness will find the odd disgruntled customer and postage has now turned hit and miss, even post office is loosing stuff whilst in my area hermes/evri is so bad if i buy on ebay i pay extra for a different method
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I have purchased a couple of items via e-bay from Honda Classics in the past.
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Thanks. I ordered the HEL lines.
Who the hell are HEL though? ???
If anyone ever wants any HEL brake lines feel free to drop me a message, I have an account with them and get a trade discount which I would gladly pass onto any forum members :)
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Always found Roger to be a great bloke to deal with. Even helped me out with a few rare used parts. Shame if his business is in bother or is he just winding down to retirement.
If you haven't read it this article attached is interesting and funny about his time at Honda and beyond ... particularly the escapade with the actress Liz Frazer.
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Have you compared the new ones to the old ones Mike?
Are the bars still genuine Honda? they should be drilled for the switchgear to position correctly, if they are not the genuine bars you can position the switchgear too far onto the bars and then the grip won't reach.
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TOTALLY MY ERROR!
It occurred to me that I didn't use much lubricant, maybe I had compressed the grip while installing - I pushed pretty hard from the end at one point. So I went back, removed the grips (PITA) and reinstalled using more lubricant. They fit as they should!
Yes, they are the original bars with the locating holes/wire holes, etc. I removed my previous post to avoid criticizing someone who didn't deserve it. But the brake bleeder fitting from Honda Classics definitely does not seat in my caliper, the hex head bottoms before bleeder seals.
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I've got some bleed nipples for those type of calipers that fit so they must be available from somewhere.
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I see that the ones DSS carries appear longer in the threaded area - like my original - than the one from Honda Classics. Maybe I'll order one from DSS...or just clean up the original! ;)
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FWIW, I received a bleeder screw from Nurse Julie which DOES fit/seal my OEM caliper. It is 2mm longer than one from Honda Classics. Not sure what caliper the HondaClassic screw fits. It allegedly fits the '76 400 four but it didn't seal when "bottomed" on mine.
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FWIW, I received a bleeder screw from Nurse Julie which DOES fit/seal my OEM caliper. It is 2mm longer than one from Honda Classics. Not sure what caliper the HondaClassic screw fits. It allegedly fits the '76 400 four but it didn't seal when "bottomed" on mine.
Probably a kawasaki ;D
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FWIW, I received a bleeder screw from Nurse Julie which DOES fit/seal my OEM caliper. It is 2mm longer than one from Honda Classics. Not sure what caliper the HondaClassic screw fits. It allegedly fits the '76 400 four but it didn't seal when "bottomed" on mine.
Great, I'm pleased you got it sorted. I knew it would fit as long as it was a standard caliper that hadn't been tampered with.
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OK...As you know I am very new here and to Honda CB400s so it may not seem to appropriate for a total new guy to complain about a vendor but of the three items I ordered from HondaClassic, two did not fit. The bleeder screw, already discussed, and - this morning - the "close throttle" cable. The open throttle cable fit correctly into the OEM switchgear/throttle but the ferrule on the close cable is too large diameter-wise to fit into the receptacle for it. I can work the ferrule down with a file or sandpaper to fit but, of course, that shouldn't be necessary with a part that is supposed to fit a specific motorcycle. So the bike has a new open throttle cable and the original close throttle cable.
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Over the past couple of years, I posted regular updates on the ongoing issues I was experiencing with a well known honda restoration company (that's currently for sale).
The latest chapter, is that, having spent in excess of £4000 including shipping to and from this workshop, the bike was eventually returned in a shocking state of repair.
It was immediately obvious that there was major issues with the standard of repair. The owner of this company claims to be enthusiast who craves originality.
Following emails pointing out the problems found on return, I took some time out to see where to go next.
I then decided that I would ship the bike to a workshop in leyland. I've just been informed that the bike has been returned from Daventry with the carburetors missing parts etc, im waiting on a full report on exactly what happens next.
The pics of the carbs I was sent during the rebuild are not the carbs fitted to the bike, clearly the fuel lines are completely different.
The upshot is once I find out just what's needed I may be looking for a set of carbs to use as spare parts.
Every email has been saved regarding the job and what was required, not corners were to be cut.
There's been times during this period that I have come close to throwing in the towel, I might yet,who knows.
Be careful with some venders, there's some good, some not so good, then there's some out and out crooks, unfortunately mine was the latter, might be ok for supplying a throttle cable, but not much else. Wish I had done more homework before I started this journey or found this forum 1st woulda saved much anguish, money and frustration
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Quite a salutary tale.
I guess the only way we can help on this forum is to ask “how can we help?”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Absolutely shocking way your project has been treated. Cant believe the betrayal of trust you put in some so called expert. Hope you get sorted! Suing is likely expensive action to take. Nice picture of the three fours by the way.
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That's a terrible story to hear. I feel your pain, when you pay a lot of money for an expert to build you a roadworthy and reliable bike but what you eventually receive is something else your faith in human nature takes a hit. I remember when I was 17 and my Honda CB160 blew a head gasket I took it to a well known dealer to fix it. After a couple of weeks it was ready for collection. On the ride home it was gutless so I rode it back to the dealer where I was told they 'did the best the could with an old bike'. This is reason why I try to do everything myself now unless the job requires special tools such as a rebore or crank grind, repaint, chrome etc. Having said all that I still got caught again 20 years ago and ended up with a bike that was unrideable and dangerous.
Hope you get it sorted before the end of summer.
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Not trying in the slightest to defend the restorers but if I had been doing the carbs I'd have replaced the fuel pipe as well. You need to as the old pipe won't resist ethanol fuels we use these days. So you need to replace not only the fuel lines but the orings inside the carbs with stuff that will.
I'd be interested in seeing what the missing parts are, not that many that can be missing and have the carbs still working properly.
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Absolutely shocking way your project has been treated. Cant believe the betrayal of trust you put in some so called expert. Hope you get sorted! Suing is likely expensive action to take. Nice picture of the three fours by the way.
Hi Steve, thanks for the reply, the help I get is being able to come to the forum and vent. The personal messages I've had from members is much appreciated and has helped me not to throw the towel in with the bike. Cheers Peter
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Not trying in the slightest to defend the restorers but if I had been doing the carbs I'd have replaced the fuel pipe as well. You need to as the old pipe won't resist ethanol fuels we use these days. So you need to replace not only the fuel lines but the orings inside the carbs with stuff that will.
I'd be interested in seeing what the missing parts are, not that many that can be missing and have the carbs still working properly.
Hi, I don't know if you recall I posted some pics of the carbs I was sent from the restorer, all new fuel pipes etc, those carbs were not on the bike on its return!!! Trust me, the pics of before and after were not from my bike. Guys a charlatan, he may be OK for selling a spark plug or some obscure part that's sitting gathering dust, before he bolts, but try finding a running restoration that's been done by them,, Oh and the engine paint is another story.. I'm happy to share the emails from over 2 years, dealing with this crook, angry doesn't come close,taking me all my time not to do a 700mile round trip for a wee chat and a straightener, it's a Glasgow friendly greeting,, :-) cheers Peter
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No, don't recall seeing pics of carbs Peter.
Post a before and after and lets see what you mean.
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Before and after,
The before are not off my bike,, and the after are not the ones fitted, seems I'm needing a number 4 carb.
The carbs that are fitted by HCR, are a complete shambles.
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Presumably you have checked the photography audit trail as well. It pretty much fraudulent what he has done - a complete con artist it seems.
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Pic of the bike before it went to Daventry, my ocd would never, ever allow my carbs to get in that state, plus the after pics are definitely not on my bike, the fuel lines are cheap thin plastic, absolute junk If anyone has a number four carb for sale, , you can see the how things progress on Instagram. Cheers Peter
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That looks cosmetically nice presumably you had some engine issues?
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Did you have an inline filter fitted to your carbs before it went in as those have one fitted. If you didn't where have those carbs come from?
What's up with number 4 carb?
I presume the restored carbs are from Gerben, they look like his work.
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It looks as if the restorers have used Gerbens photos.
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Did you have an inline filter fitted to your carbs before it went in as those have one fitted. If you didn't where have those carbs come from?
What's up with number 4 carb?
I presume the restored carbs are from Gerben, they look like his work.
no there was no inline filter on mine. I had a mate check out the pics and he done a search,, they are fake. I know Roger is getting to hear about these claims, from a member here, that's not a problem, I saw his reply to my review of his company.,it's well seeing he is a marketing guy, he spins a good story. But it's only 144 miles from Leyland to Daventry, so we will see how he responds in person when I pay my next visit. I hope he hasn't sold the company by then of course, since it's a wonderful op for some unsuspecting buyer.. The guys a cheat, and I don't appreciate being conned.
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It looks as if the restorers have used Gerbens photos.
Roger at honda classics restoration says he done the work,, https://media.tenor.com/HxkGW9Wb5GUAAAAM/pinnochi
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I'm wondering why whoever did those carbs felt the need to write the cylinder number on them in the throat. You can pick a carb up and know what cylinder it is just by the way the airscrew fits, the way the vents lie and the way the petrol pipes go into the body for instance. Anyone who does carbs would know all those things.
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I'm wondering why whoever did those carbs felt the need to write the cylinder number on them in the throat. You can pick a carb up and know what cylinder it is just by the way the airscrew fits, the way the vents lie and the way the petrol pipes go into the body for instance. Anyone who does carbs would know all those things.
They are also marked 1,2,3 and 4 by Honda (well Keihin) as below.
[attachimg=1]
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Bit different that Ash, those are production marks to make them readily identifiable and they don't appear on the 500/550 for instance but I see your point, why bother when it's already there. Shows lack of confidence in their abilities to me.
Even without the marking I can tell that's number 4 cylinders carb, the brass ferrule for the venting pipe connection makes it either 2 or 4 but the drilling for the airhole as well makes it 4. The petrol joint hole would also be drilled that side if you could see it whereas number 2 would have it on the other side.
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More evidence that the rebuilt carbs pics are fake, the truth comes out under close inspection.
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What are we looking at there.
I studied the pic and can't see what damage he's referring to, float tab? the towers where the rod goes through?
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What are we looking at there.
I studied the pic and can't see what damage he's referring to, float tab? the towers where the rod goes through?
it's all in the videos I have been sent, along with the other issues that I've been left with, charged for.
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True story of the standard of work that has been done by a so called restoration specialist,, ps, just been informed that the offer to pay for any substandard work found has been removed, seems I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. And his lawyer is looking into my claims, hopefully his lawyer is checking Instagram and the mess that's needing sorted.