Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: pistonbroke 66 on October 18, 2017, 01:03:19 PM
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I'm sure this has been asked a million times before but after investing a whole £8 in a new oil filter whilst wandering round stafford show I wondered what the current preferred option was on oil?
I know it needs to be 10/40 but wondered what people were going for these days. I looked at the silkolene classic range but nothing seems be particularly reccomended.
Any guidance gratefullly recieved.
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Bryan J who has many years working with these old Hondas says Tesco's diesel oil is the correct spec, reasonably priced, and synthetic oils are an expensive waste of money.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
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Any 10w/40 mineral oil.
Euro car parts sell it.
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Interesting post.. so really Tesco 10/40 works well.. on these old bikes.. is it ok for the clutch?
I always use Motul in my race bikes but a cheaper option sounds good on the classics!
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It's fine with the clutch, it's exactly what Honda specified for them A few synthetic oils will make the clutch slip.
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I use Trade semi synthetic 10/40 in my CB400/4. Never had clutch slip but gets changed every 1000 miles.
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Sounds good!
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I was looking for the Tesco oil yesterday and their website says its no longer available. :'(
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A lot of firms still do straight mineral, you just need to look at the spec but do look at the diesel variety as the spec on those is what is needed
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https://applications.castrol.com/oilselector/en_gb/c/recommendation?_ga=2.75409493.634891134.1508360684-317217138.1508360684&vehicleType=motorcycles-scooters-mopeds-quads-(atv)&manufacturer=honda&model=cb-(1969-)&modelType=cb-750-four-(1969-1978)
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As I'm being lazy does anyone know the exact spec for oil on the CB400f?
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The little Honda handbook says to use a high detergent oil to meet or exceed the requirements for 'Service SE'. with a viscosity of SAE20 or SAE20W for winter. Or a multigrade SAE 10W-40.
The service SE spec is for petrol engines made before 1979 and has been superceded several time to meet the requirements of modern engines and fuels and is now up to service SN.
This could be quite important now that we are forced to use fuels with 5% or more ethanol.
The link below is quite interesting.
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/oil_quality_ratings.htm
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That's an interesting site Dave487, I haven't seen that one.
Thanks for posting it.
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Talking of ethanol, i presume you guys use premium petrol in your classic 4strokes? I always do in my strokers and intend to with the cb750 once its otr... for a couple of extra quid per tank full it has to be worthwhile?
I avoid supermarket petrol like the plague! Except tesco premium which is quite good i believe ;D
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I never use premium and only ever use the cheapest supermarket fuel I can find. You will get lots of differing views on that question ;D ;D
Edit....and before anyone says anything about the state of my pistons......don't!!!!
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I always use BP Ultimate on the 400-4, but tend to use supermarket diesel in the car but then put the odd tankful of Shell or BP premium in.
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As long as the fuel meets what octane is needed I just can't tell the difference between the various options.
I just use basic anything that is lowest cost, petrol or diesel. That's in petrol and diesel engines in case you're worried.
I'm not mentioning your pistons Julie ;D I might be in trouble with trigger if I do :)
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As long as the fuel meets what octane is needed I just can't tell the difference between the various options.
I just use basic anything that is lowest cost, petrol or diesel. That's in petrol and diesel engines in case you're worried.
I'm not mentioning your pistons Julie ;D I might be in trouble with trigger if I do :)
Nah, I am the only one who is ever in trouble with Trigger ::) ::) ::)
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Don't mention supermarket fuel! My long running saga with trying to tune the 400/4 following it's rebuild took a turn for the worse after I used fuel bought from a supermarket. It had been running reasonably OK with just a bit of fine tuning required but I had run out of fuel I'd bought from my local BP garage. The OT was going shopping so I asked her if she pick me up a gallon of fuel with the sea bass and spuds and handed her my empty jerry can. She duly returned with fuel and into my empty tank it went and I resumed the tuning. The bike ran worse then ever, spitting back, running rough tickover up and down followed by the carbs going all incontinent again and resulting in yet another strip down. When I removed the float bowls I found water mixed with the fuel! I emptied the remaining fuel into the MX5 (other lesser fun sportscars are available). This happened about two weeks ago and I shall never put supermarket fuel in any motorcycle again although I'll fill a car fuel tank with it, the Mazda didn't mind going teetotal for a few days!
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I've heard of some supply problems in some locations before but never experienced it myself. Those were not limited to supermarket fuel though.
I just don't see a technical reason though as to why it shouldn't be used from any fuel station though as it all should reach a certain overall spec.
As more ethanol mixed fuel was coming into market it seemed clear that certain refineries were supplying whole swathes of differing stations both branded and independent/supermarket forecourts, generally that is not something they wish to clarify though.
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I never worry about what goes in the tank. But my sisters car kept messing up Lambda sensors on Tesco fuel and My old Ford Ranger makes a strange pinking kind of noise if run on ASDA Diesel
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My daughter recently filled her car with Morrisons supermarket cheap crap. Four miles later dad (ME) had to go and tow her home. Wouldn't start again no matter what I tried until I drained the tank and put some good old BP Ultimate in. Started straight away and been running great ever since. So if anyone want six gallons of bonfire starter fuel give me a shout. This is far from the only story about supermarket fuel, it's cheap for a reason.
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Depends on the machine, my ca125 started to run well below normal particularly on hills on Tesco fuel, I reverted to Texaco and literally within 200 yards of the petrol station the performance was restored. I almost never buy premium fuel, you just about notice the improvement on a 125, but no more so than if you do tyre pressures and oil everything etc before every trip rather than weekly. Some vehicles seem more fussy than others. I noticed with our two berlingos that the red one was more willing and revved more readily than the silver one, same age and model / engine speck and the only differences should have favoured the silver one which has done 50k less miles and doesn't have aircon to say power. It amounted to the red one could haul 4th up a hill where the silver needed 3rd or it juddered horribly. The difference was Silver was fuelled up consistently by my wife at Tesco, I always fuelled up the other side of town at Texaco. Once I pointed it out to my wife she has now forsaken the Clubcard points and 1p a litre saving and ditched the Tesco fuel in favour of a bit more ooph- yeah I know berlingo are not very fast but every little helps. On my cb500 sidecar I never noticed any difference on whatever fuel was in there and did a lot more miles as it was our only transport and we used to do a lot of fun stuff like rock concerts before the kids arrived. Maybe 8 years ago there was less difference in fuel quality.... Asda diesel coincided with our old Cordoba gaining a strange hickup that never really went away but was always worse if filled at Asda. That put us off their fuel too.
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Matthewmosse, it's well established by others on here that the red one is always fastest ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Think that's a general thing in life though. :)
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Having found my pile of handbooks the recommendation is SAE-SE 10W40. price has rocketed since i last bought 2x25lt drums but one to try is:-
Halfords
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/engine-oil/halfords-15w40-mineral-petrol-diesel-oil-5l
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Putting automibile oil into a motorcycle with a wet clutch was always a no no wasnt it?... especially as there are dozens of suitable options specially formulated for motorcycles...
Halfords do a mineral multigrade specially for bikes, why bither with the deisel car stuff.... beats me.
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Putting automibile oil into a motorcycle with a wet clutch was always a no no wasnt it?... especially as there are dozens of suitable options specially formulated for motorcycles...
Halfords do a mineral multigrade specially for bikes, why bither with the deisel car stuff.... beats me.
As a engineer I know that oil is formulated in grades for engines and not for motorcycles. They put a nice picture of a bike on the label and then charge more £££. As people like Bryan and myself have worked in the bike trade for many years, we know not to look at the fancy labels and read the spec on the back ;)
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Putting automibile oil into a motorcycle with a wet clutch was always a no no wasnt it?... especially as there are dozens of suitable options specially formulated for motorcycles...
Halfords do a mineral multigrade specially for bikes, why bither with the deisel car stuff.... beats me.
Cheers Rob that's good to know. Last time I checked Halfords it was part or fully synthetic and not motorcycle specific. Was quite a while ago though so will check again. To make it easy, do you have an online link for the one your talking about. Cheers.
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(https://s19.postimg.org/jms6pnhc3/DEE97_BE9-8984-4047-_AE5_F-_A80419_CDBF77.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a28k2rrzz/)
The stuff in the middle is what i was referring to roy. I use it on the RD which is obviously a 2t.... personally I wouldn’t use it on a 4 stroke, classic or otherwise, but it is a basic mineral multigrade with no anti-friction additives that could potentially build up and damage your wet clutch plates. Its labelled gear oil but is mineral multigrade not hypoid..... I would use a semi synth like either of the two oils next to it..... specialy formulated for bikes, relatively cheap and easily obtainable.. My advice would always be to use good quality oil and fuel for decent performance and longevity but at the end of the day its up to the individual.... decent oil is relatively cheap (although some is very expensive and a waste on low performance motors like these), engine rebuilds not so cheap, especially ageing classics.
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With oils I go with a decent price per litre. Avoid synthetic, - I found Comma 10/40w semi synthetic caused bad clutch slip, took 3k miles and 2 oil changes to get it working right again. I used to use Silkolene but the price doubled and advice on this forum pointed to reading the specifications on the back, as did my bike mechanic friend who's advice I value as he is quite into his classics and has a lot of experience. Since then I tend towards 'fleet oils' suitable for petrols and diesels as you can by shopping around get 25l drums for about what some places charge for 5l of oil that is the same specification. Given my sidecar cb500/4 cleared 200k miles on her original engine with no more than 1500 mile oil changes ( I think she was on 50k when I got her with oil like tar and a slipping starter clutch) the pistons were ok when I stripped it down, just needs new rings - I found after a few years the oil was coming out almost clean looking at 1500 mile changes so I stretched it a bit. Regular changes in my books are better than spending a fortune.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comma-TFSD5L-Transflow-15W40-Liter/dp/B00D8Z8FFG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1508689897&sr=8-6&keywords=comma+10w40
The Halfords one I posted was mineral not synthetic
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http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html
Worth a look. It supports the view that the oils are not specific to motorcycles, but principally marketing and cost position.
That claim of "not using friction modifiers" it's never stated what these mystical elements are. Oil itself is the biggest friction modifier of all ( and that's why we use it) these designs choose to run the clutch saturated in it!
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http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html
Worth a look. It supports the view that the oils are not specific to motorcycles, but principally marketing and cost position.
That claim of "not using friction modifiers" it's never stated what these mystical elements are. Oil itself is the biggest friction modifier of all ( and that's why we use it) these designs choose to run the clutch saturated in it!
Well I never ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I'm sure Iv posted it on here in the past I once spoke to a sales rep from Castrol about bike oil and he told me its all advertising blurb to confuse the customer into buying a more expensive product.
I for one will carry on using car oils in my bikes.
Why some bikes suffer clutch slip on certain oils is any ones guess.
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I use 10-40 semi sinthetic from Eurocarparts
the 500 is up to 65k miles,uses a little oil,but runs well,
lovely light clutch and no hint of slippage
https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/engine-oils/?521776011&1&cc5_245
they often have a BOGOF deal,or discount code
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That's what Iv been using John I buy it in 20lt for £30
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I use 10-40 semi sinthetic from Eurocarparts
the 500 is up to 65k miles,uses a little oil,but runs well,
lovely light clutch and no hint of slippage
https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/engine-oils/?521776011&1&cc5_245
they often have a BOGOF deal,or discount code
Is the lovely light clutch down to the oil or that well improved clutch push rod I made you ;) ;D
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I use 10-40 semi sinthetic from Eurocarparts
the 500 is up to 65k miles,uses a little oil,but runs well,
lovely light clutch and no hint of slippage
https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-parts/engine-parts/engine-parts1/engine-oils/?521776011&1&cc5_245
they often have a BOGOF deal,or discount code
Is the lovely light clutch down to the oil or that well improved clutch push rod I made you ;) ;D
well,the wonderful new clutch pushrod,and the oil made a difference,
but it must have been the assembly of said parts that made it really smooth,
and greasing the worm drive lifter !!!
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As above. Those clutch components, how they are assembled, and final setup make a big difference to clutch operation and lifing.
I find generally that concern over a clutch operation usually concerns things like drag, finding neutral and smooth operation, it's rare however that final part of how the release cycle is performed is examined, which is the area that can most easily bring about clutch slip. It's often that the system is adjusted to try and affect the first listed effects and leave the mech holding the clutch very slightly from fully closing. The condition of the parts and leaving free play when released will prevent any unintended clutch wear. Too many owners miss this crucial point.