Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: z1100r on February 17, 2011, 11:08:56 AM
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Well rather than just talk about it I started it last night. My poor old 500-4 has been sat in the back of my Horsebox lorry looking very sorry for itself.
I dropped down the back door of the lorry and was quite shocked at the state of my old bike. They tyres were flat and one had left a black stain on the floor. It was covered in cobwebs and straw/hay...it looked horrendous. I went and got a pump and blew the tyres up, I lifted the bike off its stand and heard petrol sloshing about in the tank. A sudden panic set in, that petrol is 4 years old at least, oh no, not again. I'd parked a bike up before (motoguzzi) with half a tank of petrol and the top of the tank rotted out. I carried on and wheeled the Honda out into the dark, and finally down to my garage. In the garage lights the bike looked even worse.
Oh well I'll get the battery charged up.....hahahaha...no chance, first, when I pulled the sidepanel off it shattered into a about 10 pieces...man they go brittle, I opened the seat and found a huge mouse nest...my airfilter had been eaten. I cleared the nest and all the mess away.
I attached my charger/starter to the dead battery and switched on ign. Hmmm idiot lights are OK, press starter, Hmm it turns over OK. Open filler cap and blow hard, petrol smells quite off, but its not rusty in there. Right lets see if she starts. Those carbs must be gummed to hell. Well I tried and tried for 10mins and then almost gave up, all it wanted to do was backfire everynow and then. This was going to be my last attempt....I pressed the button, and without even hearing the startermotor it burst into life and sat there at 4,000 revs as smooth as you like. I knocked the choke off and revs dropped to about 1000 and she just sat there and purred. Fooking superb.
Right I'd better see what I've actually got in terms of new parts. I go off to find stuff I bought 10 years ago. Well I found the new rear hub, I found the 4 new pipes and all the brackets and fittings, new revcounter drive, 2 complete sets of cables one for 500 and one for 550, Gasket sets, extra head o rings and camcover rubbers. I could not however find, my new mudguards, indicators, grab rail, headlight brackets, rear light bracket and other bits. I'm just hoping they haven't been chucked away in some box I didn't look inside of first. This was real panic attack stuff, the problem now is I have nowhere left to look so its looking bad - and expensive.
I took a couple of pics that I'll post up later when I've got them off the camera. I'm not stopping now until its a tidy respectable bike again.
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This sounds much to good to be true ! I'm glad (and dead jealous) that you have been so lucky.
Cheers
Den
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Hooray, these bikes can take some punishment certainly. Be careful about revving bike hard if it has been standing.
Many years ago my friend resuscitated a CB550 which had been standing for a few years. He took it for a really serious blast round the lanes but when he came back after a few miles it was smoking like mad. When we pulled the barrel off we found that all the piston rings had been gummed up and had now broken into lots of pieces. Maybe a strip down of the engine would be a safe precaution?
I would love to see pictures. If it's rougher than mine I will be very envious.
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Good start there, 500/4's are a tough cookie type of bike, I've bought 2 projects that have yet to get a look in and were pretty much sripped down to big lumps already, after a clean out of the oil galleries (stored with filter off) I simply bolted on what must surely have been the furryest carbs evet to the head, plus a set of pipes and a battery and tempoary fuel line and had a bench test of that engine to see what I was up against. It ran like a swiss watch, perfect tickover with a bit of a blow from the exhaust where I'd neither used new gaskets or indeed fixed 2 missing studs. The 500 carbs are probably the best I've found for coping with being stood, the 550k3 being really sensitive to old fuel or being stood.
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Tell me about the K3 carbs!! My bike had covered only 63 miles in the last 3 years prior to me buying it, what a pig to clean them out. She runs now but still needs a good tune up. I now have a problem with the clutch.....replaced the clutch complete (metal and friction plates), cable, basket and the snail cam. Adjusted as the manual now the gears are hard to engage, getting worse as the bike warms up????? Any ideas folks?
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Mine are K3 carbs...loads better to tune due to screw in rather than push in main jets. Years ago i pulled all the primaries out and gave them a good cleaning and then set the carbs up perfect. The bike runs alot better with K3 carbs....in fact its alot better with K3 everything.
The engine in mine is a K3 550 bored to 601 using Kawasaki 61.5 GPZ305 pistons. It has a camshaft that I had made by Joy cams which if I remember replicates the Yoshimura IOM cam. The clutch was beefed up by myself and the gears were also swapped for much beefier efforts. A mixture between 500 and modified 550 gears. Its a very grunty motor and shocks quite a few. Its the one I built to race in the early eighties. When it raced it had modified 750F2 carbs, still got those aswell. My original 500 motor is sitting on the garage floor looking exactly as it did when I took it out years ago...very shiny. Even when I rode the bike everyday it had another std 550K3 motor mainly because I got fed up with the stock 500 clutch. So my std original 500 motor has done sod all...about 8,000 miles from new.
see this page :- http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/600gallery.htm (http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/600gallery.htm)
Here are some pics of the general state of it.....I'm ashamed of myself.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/nest1.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/nest2.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/filter.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/wheel.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/seat.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/engine1.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/engine2.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/cockpit.JPG)
Who wants to hear it run...??? hehehehe :D :D ;D
cb500four.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMMhsiwRHlg#)
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Great pictures , you certainly have our work cut out if you want to make it shiney, one thing is for sure Florence will certainly be envious, its definetly rougher than his LOL
Pete
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What exhaust is that? Sure sounds nice.
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Hee hee, mines rougher than that! Florence eat your heart out. I'll not be shinyfing mine though, just reviving it for next winter with some mechanical sympathy, cleaned carbs etc.
I'd just ride that as it is appart from a major service to include air cleaner!
My 500/4 has 550k3 engine and carbs as a stopgap til I sort the original 500 motor which has done 160 000 or more miles mostly sidecar tugging.
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Its a modified ordinary Motad. It is more noisy than std but acceptable to both the rider and public on the road. When you're really going for it it sounds sweet, not harsh and noisy, more or less perfect to my ears. Ugly looking thing though. :D
I just noticed those bloody Yamaha rear footpegs rattling. Had to fit those for the last MOT for some reason.
I found my mudguards...thank god..phew..panic over.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/fenders.JPG)
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I love it! Well done Sir, I would ride it like that. You are very lucky to have a petrol tank that has not been re-painted but has that wonderful fading which takes years to develop and cannot be replicated. As for the rusty bits, a liberal smearing of grease would be in order.
I really like the twin disc conversion.
I have a couple of questions. I notice you have a 550 engine. Does this cause any headaches with the insurance?
Does the 550 clutch not suffer from the slipping problem which is so very annoying on the 500?
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You would ride it like that....well I did that for about 10 years. Its not much worse now than it was then. I'm fed up with it being my rat bike now. In fact If I steam cleaned it and put some cheap wheels in it, it wouldn't look too bad. That Motad exhaust is pretty new, the engine is spot on, forks need a rebuild and and a bit of paint, Frame needs blasting and stoving, a new set of hbars and levers bolt on all my new goodies and it would look very good.
A few years ago I spotted a brand new set of 550 carbs on Ebay...actually NOS. I bid around 100 quid but they sold for 265. The big bidder never turned up so i was offered them as next highest bidder. I just opened the box with them in last night, now they are bike porn....lovely looking things when they are spangly new.
The brake conversion is just K3 forks.
I have 3 bike insurance policies each with 4 bikes on. The little Honda costs me nothing to insure. My z1100r costs nothing to insure, my Thunderace and RD500's cost nothing to insure. For some very odd reason my Yamaha RD350F2 powervalve is the highest risk bike I have and that policy costs more than the rest. When I rang them to query it the guy confirmed that the 350 was highest risk I had.
Telling them my 1970's 500 Honda was actually 600 was like..yeah ..so what....!!!
550 clutches are just as bad as far as slipping goes...the operating mechanism is vastly improved on the 550 though..you get a much smoother nicer control lever. My clutch is modded to prevent slip. First of all theres extra plates, secondly the steel plates are vapour blasted, and thirdly it has slightly heavier springs, they're the basic things I did, I did other stuff too but cant remember exactly what.
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I have the list below insured with Carole Nash. They charge me about
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I only wondered because having a different engine means it's been modified and sometimes they charge a lot more for modified bikes.
Footman James are pretty good and cheaper than Carole Nash who I was with for about fifteen years. FJ offer discount to members of the Vintage Motorcycle Club.
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I like the breakdown cover with CN. Last year I got a cheaper quote from FJ and CN matched it. :)
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I might try that.
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Started the painting today....I love the bike in the vid below...so thats what its going to be..dont care if its wrong, this isn't a restoration.
Ready for laquer... and supershine...!!!
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/sidepanels.JPG)
Honda CB 500 Four K2 - Candy Blue - 1977 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S3Q5FAQnpc#)
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Looking very nice, fast work.
Don't worry about restoration, it's just wrong anyway. Very few bikes remained standard for very long after they were bought. Most people fixed all the standard things that were a bit rubbish and made the bike suit their own taste and style. Your bike is a great example of that. Why would you want to go back to single disc brake and slippy clutch, brown paint etc...?
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Re modifications and insurance, I was with CN until they got really stoppy and refused cover on my BMW r90/6 because it had a 1000cc engine - ie bigger barells, bottom end on them things is the same from 800 - 1000cc. They wanted an engineers report that it was properly fitted. Previously I'd swapped 500 and 550 motors a few times on my 500 sidecar with no problems off them, they were even fine with the bmw being twin plugged and having leading links and a sidecar, just that engine swap they wouldn't budge on despite me pointing out I couldn't get to an engineer without cover and that the engines hld by 2 wadging great bolts that would be nigh on inpossible to get wrong. I just went to Lynnbrooke who were offering 'buy back salvage' as a policy benefit, something I'm rather keen on having as I can put pretty much any dammage short of a total burn out and rather like my 500/4 too much to see it broken after an accident. Cost wise I can cover 5 bikes for myself, my dad and my wife for
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so what beefing up to the clutch did you do ? would be very interested
oh and lucky b-stard for starting out the box after all those years. honda reliability proven ;D
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Well to be honest I cant remember ...but the clutch was a real major problem when I raced it..it used to let go big time down Cadwell straight and snetterton straight was a nightmare. It was a real weak point. When I was racing I used to rough sand blast the steel plates every week and replace the friction plates every 2 months. It would be OK then. On the road after I finished racing I was skint and used to go everywhere at 60mph on
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That 500/4 in the video sounds like a bag of old nails. A bit of set-up & carb balancing needed there I think.
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That 500/4 in the video sounds like a bag of old nails. A bit of set-up & carb balancing needed there I think.
If you mean the blue one, yes, that's what I thought... but maybe it's idling way below 1000 rpm.
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I thought it was a bit noisy and rattly too. Trouble is most of the bikes on Utube sound pretty awful. The one above is in a bit of an echo chamber though and if he's just started it from cold the original 500 carb choke is a bit crap. I much prefer the cable choke on the 550 carbs, you can position the choke for smoother running as you warm it up. In saying all that when I first got my 500 and started it up Iwas amazed.....you could barely hear it and it would sit at about 800 revs tickover all day and was a little electric motor, no rattles or clonks.
Alot of the clonking is hyvo chain though isn't it - my bikes done sod all since it had a new hyvo and camchain. The rattliest thing on mine is those old RD rear footrests.
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This is why I previously offered to record people's bikes and edit them to film so that you get broadcast quality sound but no-one is interested. I think it would make a great video. The barrier probably is the cost but having said that people spend a fortune on their hobbies.
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I have a feeling that much of the noise is getting the cam chain tension correct. This is normally down to the correct positioning of the crankshaft before actuating the tensioner. Once this was done & the tappet clearances set, it was down to getting the carbs set up properly. On K3 carbs #2 was fixed, #1 was then set to #2, then #3 & #4 were set to the others. But with 500 & 550F carbs they all had adjusters so they went out of sync more regularly.
(As a bit of advice, it's pointless trying to sync the carbs until the engine has been completely serviced ie. oil, filter, air filter, tappet clearances, spark plugs cleaned & checked for correct gaps, points cleaned & gapped etc. Once all of this si done, then try & sync the carbs. If this proves difficult, I would suspect the 'O' rings between the inlet manifolds & the cylinder head. These can be tested by squirting some WD40 around this area...if the engine speed picks up there's likely to be an air leak pulling in too much air.)
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The big strip down tonight then...Bike will be comming completely to pieces tonight and everything black is going to the powder coaters to be shot blasted this week.
What do you guys reckon to Powdercoating....remember its not a fastidious resto...its just a smarting up....I'll have it all back by Friday if I get the whole lot powdered. Thats frame, swinger, brake rod, and various engine mounts and other brackets. I can get on with the forks then..... I need some springs anyone recommend fork springs.
Think I'd rather just let them powder it for now...I have heard of restorers doing this anyway and then blowing a coat of paint on top of the powder for a real shine.
New rims and spokes not arrived yet, so cant do wheels.
I will have spent about a grand on it.....but surely after 30years it deserves that..!!! I'm going to use the bike again but its winters are over, it doesn't deserve anymore salty wet..
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This is my frame just back from being powder coated, the finish is good but not perfect, however it is as tough as old boots, I had to remove some coating for the earth points and it was very hard.
Den
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z244/DennisMcc/Progress%20shots/Rebuild-1.jpg)
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A step ahead of me eh..!! Who did the Powder and how good was you're frame...pitting etc. Mines gonna be bad, I'm not expecting miracles, but I am expecting where its smooth now for it to be smooth in those places when it comes back.
I just rang up a Powder coaters near me this morning and they quoted me
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The powder coating was done by Elite Engineering in Liverpool, the frame (CB750F1) needed some weld repairs, here's the before shot.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z244/DennisMcc/Stripdown/Frame.jpg)
This is the bike being stripped down, I did start to rub down and undercoat the rust spots but in the end it turned out to be one huge rust spot.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z244/DennisMcc/Stripdown/RUST-GALL-8.jpg)
The total cost was an eye watering
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That escalated somewhat didn't it.... :D :D :D I know how it happens, I've been there myself.
Just when I get going on the Honda I'm on hold again. I have a trackday March 11 and my RD500 is in a million bits.
I got the wheel rims and spoke kits from Silvers yesterday, I'm chomping at the bit to get this Honda ready for our IOM TT trip, and now I'm stuck reassembling my track bike.
Just out of interest does anyone know how you measure handlebar rise...I'm trying to figure out what the rise is on my bars.
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Well it took me 2 hours...but man I enjoyed it..!!! 8)
Rear wheel Half done..!!
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/rwheel2.JPG)
Finished...just got to true it up now..!! Another 2 hours I guess. All spokes are tight at the moment.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/rwheel1.JPG)
The front to do next. Blimey brand new wheels..!!!At this rate my rat bike is going to be my best show bike..hahaha
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Nice job, I made a mess of just tightening up some loose spokes !
Den
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Thanks..still got to true it though. In saying that I've spun it and to the eye it is true, those rims are very good. an even toque on all spokes and it seems unbelievably good, so it might just be a 2 minute job with a clock and a tweak here and there.
Decided I'm going out for a final sentimental ride on the dirty old slapper this afternoon. The RD500 motor is now rebuilt and waiting for re-insertion, so the plan is to do that this evening. As I have the afternoon off I'm going to have a tootle about on the Direblade this savo before totally stripping it over the weekend. I've got to get rid of that 4 year old petrol somehow, and the oil needs to be warm for draining. I'll have to use an old RD battery and kickstart her but thats OK.
Her last afternoon of being reliable old Bessie before starting her new life of 'I would..!!!'.
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Deary deary me. The nightmare begins. First of all I've spent what seems like an age altering the DSS seat to fit properly, still not completed that, need some trim glue. So start to strip down bike.
I get rid of the rickman box and the rack, I get the wheel out, I take both bits of mudguard off, the shocks off, its all going swimmingly. All nuts undoing no bother. Chainguard off...I'm lovin this..!!!
Right then, Swingarm out.. take off lovely crome nut and tap spindle with copper mallet. Hmmmm solid, does it screw in and is this just a locknut. Make with big wrench and socket on bolt head the other side, nooooohh that dont turn. Its seized absolutely solid aint it...bollox.
3 hours later, its out. Took some monster blows with a big hammer, my beefy impact wrench, Oxy/acetylene heat, and WD40. Its done though, so I'm happier now. Then I take a look over the swingarm, oh my god, its rotten as a pear. Where the plates for the wheel weld in the tube has rotted out underneath tube side of the weld. The big brace plate that welds across the whole thing at the front is rotten and fractured all over the place. Thats the end of that then...BIN !! new swinger needed, more expense...tch, tch, mutter, mutter, WTF am I doing ffing about this heap of junk. Hee, Hee.
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That's a real nasty surprise, stripping mine down was similar, I just thought I would need to touch up some rust patches on the frame, but in the end the rust patches joined up and the whole frame needed a paint job.
Cheers
Den
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Could use the rotted swinger (reduce it to ends and bearing tube and re do from start?) to build a new box section swinger or something fancy? Bin nothing, you'll think of a use for it later or someone will and you could do some trading to recoup costs..........
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I've just sat here at work worrying about what the rest of the frame is going to be like. I hope I haven't religiously collected all these new shiney parts over the years only to find that behind my back the main chassis has slowly returned to mother nature.
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Ok haven't got time to worry..this bike is going to the IOM in June - must get on with it.!!
I have now laced, trued, and fitted new bearings and tyre to the front wheel. I've vapour blasted the brake discs and swinging caliper aluminium bits - and Ive repainted everything. Looks good..!!! ran out of silver so hub and brackets are gold...eeek.!!!
Tonight I will be vapour blasting/painting and rebuilding the calipers. I will then need brake lines for a twin disc setup. I noticed exactly what I want on here somewhere ages ago...I think it was on a 750F1. Hel brake line direct to caliper.
Would like to know what was involved in ordering the direct to caliper system as some seem to retain the steel pipe and others have an adaptor in the caliper for the braided pipe.
I want my twin disc bike to be as the Orange 750 I once saw on here or the US forum. Anyone know which bike that was.
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Its not difficult to make up your own braided lines as the ends are fitted with olives that crimp to the inner plastic.
There are several ways of fitting up
With steel original type
Banjo and shortened bolt
adaptor in caliper with an ngled hose end
Somewhere i have a word document with pictures as i used to make them up for our US cousins. PM me with your e-mail addy and i will try and find it for you---may even have some fittings and pipe left if i look hard
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I think I just asked Custom fastners to make up my set of lines for the 550 twin disk setup. The whole lot was put on new in stainless, top to bottom for
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Heres the front wheel with a Gold hub...it will be OK you cant bloody see it anyway with 2 discs.
The calipers below were a bit of pain...well the left one was. The pipe and bleed nipple came out of the right
one easily but the left was a different matter. I got th ecaliper very hot with my heat gun (spit sizzles) and then took it very steady.
Took me about an hour. Cleaned blasted and painted in about half an hour. Left hand piston very pitted, righthand OK. All very strange as the left is the original and the right was off a 79 K3. The K3 one has been on since about 1984 yet seems to have survived alot better.
Fork sliders next.....very unsure about what to do with them.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/frontwheel.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/calipers.JPG)
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Thats looking real good , what paint did you use on the calipers?
Peet
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Its now called Simoniz Tough Black. I use Satin and have done loads of parts in it including nearly all of my RD500 engines, its good stuff I think.
Like any of these aerosol paints though its not that tough when new. Give it a while and this stuff is better than most I've found though. Of course if you 2k laquer it anyway it doesn't matter. The Satin finish looks good on cycle parts. Its the best aerosol paint I've found to date.
(http://www.holtsauto.com/images/products/repair-and-maintenance/paint/simoniz-tough-paint-tough-black-satin-hi.jpg)
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Finally found this piccy again.
These are the type of brake lines I'm after Bryan...I want the abrasive braided bit covered. In fact an exact copy of these would be perfect.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z244/DennisMcc/wheels%20and%20brakes/Frontwheelandbrake-10.jpg)
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That's the front of my 76 CB750F1, if my failing memory is correct I had the brake pipes made up by a firm called CMS (HEL), I sent them my old brake lines, but I presume a diagram with measurements would be just as good.
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=1561.0 (http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=1561.0)
Cheers
Den
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Here you go:
http://helperformance.com/catalogue/brake-line-systems/ (http://helperformance.com/catalogue/brake-line-systems/)
Click on "Options" for black PVC covered lines.
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Sorry mate, all i got is the silver braided stuff and the fittings in the mail i sent which are more sharply angled
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No problem Bryan , any chance of you sending me a price anyway, knowing myself, if theres a significant price difference I will go with the cheaper ones. I need the 2 lines from the brake light fitting thing on the bottom yolk to the caliper and a single US spec (longer) upper pipe to master cylinder. Everything is std at the moment, master cylinder is Goldwing but looks the same and has the the same fittings.
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Which ends would you like and i will see if i have enough before giving you a price, you will also need to give me a length for the top one.
Are you doing away with the pressure switch and coupling one hose to there or putting both on one longer banjo bolt?
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Length of upper hose is 470mm centre of banjos....the banjos are short necked and have a slight bend in them.
The lower hoses are on the same long banjo bolt - brake light switch retained.
I've just been through my old TZ racing spares and I have 2 of the caliper 45deg angle fittings, and 1 rusty adaptor.
So to summarise I need the upper pipe with its banjos. 470mm
the 2 lower pipes with banjos on one end but just the nuts and olive on the other. Overall length 550mm each.
I would also like a couple of new caliper adaptors as the one I have is rusty.
Washers where necessary for all fittings but I dont need any banjo bolts, I have a stash of new stainless ones with the right thread.
Cheers Bryan
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Soryy to mess you about Bryan - ordered 3 complete pipes from Hel on Monday with the black covering and all new fittings - No Banjo's so discounted - still expensive at
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Closed loop end could be 550 K3, I have several swing arms but also the same number of bikes to resurect so a borrow might work but a sale not, as to pipes not a problem mate i hadn't had time to get into the garage yet anyway!!
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I'll use the closed loop swinger for now and buy another later - thanks though Bryan.
The Hel brake pipes arrived and are fitted. Very neat. Exactly the same as in the earlier Pic of the 750.
The engine is out, all holes bunged up and all oils seals and shafts taped up. I used some old brake caliper pistons and finned collars for the exhaust. Will shot blast it all this afternoon.
The whole front end is now done but for the clocks. I dont know wether to mask them up rub down and repaint or strip them down completely at the moment. The shells are rusty but the faces are fine.
Its not going to take as long as I thought. Certainly a fraction of the time it takes to do an RD500. The Honda is not that far removed from a simple a pushbike but with an engine and a petrol tank. There must be half the number of parts I'm used to and very little plastic.
Struggling to find the right handlebars.....I want exactly the same as I have now and they dont seem to make them anymore. Might have to have a re-chrome.
The goldwing master cylinder looks silly, way too tall, so I've fitted an old 550 reservoir into the GW casting. I dont think brake pads wearing out is going to be an issue on this bike anymore.
Really enjoying doing this bike and cant wait to wheel it out.....my mates are going to get a big shock, its been known as the dripping in rust Direbladder for years - dont get me wrong they all love it really.
I'm Undecided about taking it to the IOM now, it might rain....hahahaha
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If you can get a very first GL1000 master they look identical to the 500/750 one, its only the later ones have the see through tall reservoir.
When fitting up with the closed loop swingarm don't forget you have to pull the spindle all the way out to remove the wheel so copious grease on the spacers/spindle and put it the way round so you dont have to remove the exhaust!!
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That is the only worry Bryan - I will have exhausts both sides with the new stock pipes, but I dont envisage taking the wheel out too often and I'll have another swinger by then.
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In that case make sure you have a strong bungie so you can disconnect the bottom of the shocks and hold the swingarm up to get the spindle out. Yam 750 tripple and 1100 four had a strong rubber strap in the tool kit for this purpose!
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That's a great tip, you've just saved me the hassle of removing the exhaust to fit new sprockets.
Cheers
Allan
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Crankcases sand blasted, painted and laquered. Halfords high temp silver enamel and petrol resistant laquer. Not that great a match to original especially after laquering.
Camcover head and barrel, sump and oilfilter housing, will be removed and vapour blasted before painting.
Bolt on sidecases and end of cam things will be vapour blasted and polished.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/eng-1.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/eng-2.JPG)
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Dooesn't look great in those pics really does it....still that was late at night and in the garage with kind of weird reflections and crap going on....it looks good in the flesh.
I've now stripped the top end off the engine, I really really didn't want to do this, there was nothing wrong with it except it needed a bit of paint. Oh well its done now. Gives me a chance to Anneal the gasket again I suppose.
Cam cover and associated other bits all blasted and painted...head blasted and painted - had to take all the valves out etc etc a right pain in the arse just to blast and paint the dammed thing.
For the head I blocked up the cam oiling holes with 15mm lengths of plumbers solder pressed in the holes, the head face holes I covered with tape. I just dont want grit in my oil galleries, there are little pockets here and there that make it imposible to get it all out again.
Do the barrels tonight and then take some pics. Have used Halfords silver caliper paint for this lot...seems very good stuff and coverage is excellent..
I just hope none of that dammed sand falls in the engine from those open stud holes.
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It's really nice to see a nice shiny engine, nice one
Cheers
Den
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All looking good, what sand do you use
pete
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My outdoor blasting is crude....I use one of those big bags they deliver sand/gravel in to put the componets in. I then wear a balaclava and goggles and weild my shotblasting gun in basically open air. The bag catches some of the sand. I use Kiln dried sand from BandQ and just poke the pipe that hangs from the gun into the bag.
I usually only do the crankcases like this with the engine assembled and sealed up because the stuff goes everywhere.
Individual parts then go in my Vapour blaster...really just a wet blasting cabinet..which uses Pink saftigrit alumina oxide stuff - which has just run out unfortunately so I've come to a halt.
I spent all last night on a polisher doing the covers instead.....wow ... wait till you see those, like bloody chrome, amazing.
Got the clutch and gen covers left to do tonight. A very mucky job though.
Only the barrel left on the engine now to be blasted and painted then it can be put back together again.
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some more pics.....I'm not blasting painting and polishing at the moment as I've had to order bloody expensive grit for my wet blaster. Never had to buy any before as the machine came full...oh well it certainly lasted a long time.
Stainless bolts and screws still not arrived...!!! polished ally bits look alot better than photos...gotta stop taking pics in the dark.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/cam-cov.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/cylhead.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/sproc-cov.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/frontend.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/front2.JPG)
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Beautiful, i just love blasted and polished metal
pete
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Re: the frame power coating. I had the following done for my 750K0 by a guy in Castleford last year, who was recommended by Andrew Parnaby and I think John Wyatt uses him too. Got all these done including blasting for 130 GBP, which I reckon was a bargain. He did them in less than a week too.
Frame
Swinging Arm
Side Stand
Centre Stand
Battery box
Bottom Yoke
Front footpegs
Engine hangers
Rear Lamp bracket
Ignition switch bracket
Various tiny bits
My mate payed well over 200GBP for less stuff from Triple S for his 750 K2 and I reckon mine is as good if not better than his.
PM me if you want his details.
cheers
Ash
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All engine polishing finished...can put the motor back together now.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/cases.JPG)
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Did my head/barrel oil seal mod today..who knows, might work...!
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/oil-drill.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/oil-dow.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/oil-ass.JPG)
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Mega bling..!!! haha...engine ready to go except oil filter and sump which I'll do when they come off for engine to go back in the bike.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/eng-done.JPG)
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That is a thing of beauty, it's a shame really to put it back in the frame and ride around getting it dirty !
Cheers
Den
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(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/frontend.JPG)
Nice to see a clean double disc setup...but there's a lower mount bolt missing from the pivot bracket on the left fork leg...just in case you didn't realise.
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Yes, thanks for noticing, but half the bolts are missing, I left them out to measure them so I could order stainless replacements. They have since arrived and all is sorted now.
My second new swinger has arrived from the states friday and I have done everything now ready for the frame, swinger, and stands to go to powder coat. Just a lovely assembly job of all new or refurbed parts to do when it comes back - with mostly stainless nuts and bolts.
Oh shit forgot the petrol tank and clock cases...hmm still undecided wether to get another or fix a few small dings and paint my original. The original is spotless inside but every other I've seen so far on ebay has significant rust inside. Going for a bath to think about it....! :D
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selling my tank. no rust problems.
had the dent pulled and the badge mounts filled but they are still there.
currently in black, new cap and duel fuel tap which has one hole threaded if you just wanted to run one.
Pm me if interested.
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I am loving doing this bike..!! I owe it alot..its seen me through the kids...its done all my long trips...its been my work hack....I've fell off it twice, its got my old race engine...it means something to me. I have 15 bikes and only 5 mean anything to me. My old z1100r, cb500, moto guzzi 250, my first RD500, and my 350 YPVS. The rest I bought as investments, I have about 7 or 8 RD500's which seem to have gone ballistic cash wise so i'm going to flog one of those and fund the rebuild of the 5 I want to keep.
Something else I forgot was the switxh gear, done that tonight on the polisher, I just polished both switch gears and master cylinder to mirror finish...they look superb....just got to get some new high turn back bars from somewhere now and jobs a good un.
Refuse to take frame for powder until the rest is done. I want the fun of rebuilding with all new or equivalent parts.
Now whats all this stuff about oil coolers...I have a Yoshimura oil filter adaptor for mine and was thinking of using it with a z1100r oil cooler that i have. The Z oil cooler is a neat effort and will fit really easy with a couple of brackets....I must make and weld on the brackets before frame goes to powder so whats the beef with oil coolers that I have picked up on here in a few threads.
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Hi Its great to see your getting stuck in, 15 bikes is alot, i also have afew, and to be honest it has got a bit out of control
I am sticking an oil cooler on my cafe build, it does more good than harm, eventually some air cooled bikes were getting them as standard as a means of keeping the temperature down, the only thing i have to consider when i fit mine is do i use a thermostat or not for when the engine is cold and needs to reach its operating temp, that is the only thing iam not sure of, my gpz,s have oil coolers but no thermostat
Pete
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You don't need the oil cooler unless it's a realy heavily tuned motor or you are spending long times at high speeds on the motorway.
The above is for general consumption, as you say yours is an ex race engine it will probably be running hotter than standard and as such a cooler would be a benefit, if you can get a thermostatic By-Pass in there more the better
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I've often thought about it but not been arsed to do it. I have this adaptor from its racing days just kicking about, and I have a spare cooler from my old z...Yeah I'm going to fit it anyway, if my bog stock Z needs one then this certainly does at 100cc more than stock with bigger valves, a cam and gasflow .
No doubt we'll be cruising the 125miles odd to Heysham at just under 100 mph, and it will be doing at least 1 lap everyday for a week in the IOM probably 2 between 5 and 6am. The bikes done the trip twice before as a 550 getting some serious stick when I was younger, and I haven't really grown up..!!! I'm going with a trackday R1, ZX10R, and a VFR850 vtec, they wont be hanging about. I just know the Honda is going to get thrashed to death, I hope it can keep up thats all, I mean the VFR of course.. ;D ;D
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Get a (large coffee) and settle down to read this
(http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=166)
;D
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Holy crap...even I couldn't read all 35 pages of that..!!! I'm fitting it and thats that.. ;D Actually the Z cooler will be alot less efficient than my old much larger race cooler...which I also still have - the adaptor and cooler was all attached to the engine when i bought the engine back in the mid 90's. Anyway ..no debate necessary I'm fitting it....huh ...gotta get some new pipes..!!!
Right I've decided, I'm not fitting it....yet...but I will weld on some brackets for it.
My 460 and 600 engines used to run on Shell straight 40...lovely stuff...I dont know if its still available. 10 mins warm up and then thrash for race..the engines used to look spotless inside at the end of the year, with no apparent wear.
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I had a Derale USA cooler fitted to my modified 750/823 F2, which looked like this...
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/LatterDays028-1.jpg)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/My750031.jpg)
...with the kit parts from http://www.derale.com/ (http://www.derale.com/) looking like this...
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/20091125_25.jpg)
...together with a seperate Lockhart thermostat which was the smallest one that I could find.
Lockhart did sell an oil coller with the thermostat built into it, but I already had the Derale by then.
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/SalesBrochures001.jpg)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/SalesBrochures002.jpg)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/SalesBrochures.jpg)
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My adaptor is the same type of thing..the cooler can be seen here :-
(http://i.ebayimg.com/15/!B,vF8jg!2k~$(KGrHqYH-DwEqusu!TVJBKs0lDY3-!~~_12.JPG)
I'll get Hel to knock me up some smart pipes. it will be very easy to weld on some neat brackets to mount the cooler as the front of the main frame is obviously very similar to the Kawa frame.
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This project just keeps on going...I dont want to stop. The missus seems happy enough I'm down the shed all the time.
Just a tinker session last night. Put my switchgears and master cyl back together, blasted the airbox hanger brkts and had a look at what I'm going to do with the clocks.
I stripped off all that brittle laqueor stuff and the black rubbery ends from some original levers I've had for donkeys. Apart from the laqueor going brittle they are like new so they have gone in my polishing pile along with the rear brake back plate.
I changed the switch gear in the 80's for some reason to 550. I just remembered that. so I have that extra big bugger on the left hbar. I must of broken the head light dipper switch and I've made a bodge repair. The switch has a small round lego piece screwed and glued in as the lever. Looks a bit crude now. So I need a new one. I just need the switch but I guess I'll end up having to buy the entire switch gear.
I've got some plating I need doing ....never had any done before and dont know anywhere that does it. I want to get the airbox brkts, the wheel spacers, engine mount plates, exhaust hanging brkts and finned collars, rear brake stay tube and rod, sprocket cover, handle bars, all replated - some in chrome and some in zinc passivate. Can anyone recommend a firm for this. I want quality stuff not just a quick dip and its rusty again in fortnight. Can anyone suggest somewhere - in the midlands..??
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All engine polishing finished...can put the motor back together now.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/cases.JPG)
Nice shiny bits! Do you coat them with anything afterwards or just keep them polished?
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I wont coat these in anything....except waxy polish. All the hard work is done, when they get a little dull that a quick hand job with a rag - excuse me - wont do it anymore, then its only a few screws and a buff up on the polisher again anyway.
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I've decided what to do about the tank after seeing this..!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230604511111&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230604511111&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT)
I did think about it but thats serious pokey for a 500-4 tank. Errgh no, I'm not spending that, I can fix mine myself and it will look as good as an original one did. Plus my bike gets to keep its original tank and my trophy cabinet can bog off.
I've allready bought the blue (3.99 for 4 400ml tins) and the 2K laqueor (30 quid for 2 tins) 2 or 3 weeks ago. I'd got black and gold anyway so didn't need to bother with that, and the stripe is a doddle. so I'm knocking my dents out and getting on with it ASAP....probably this weekend. When thats done I'm there....powder frame and assemble.
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Certain things about this bike have amazed me...it may look shabby on the outside but the inside of my tank is as new. I just examined it with my flexible optical doodah. Also All around the filler neck is as new and the petrol tap - allthough mega coroded on the outside - is mint inside with one spec of something black in the filter. The bowl also undid easy and the tap still has a lovely action on the lever. Its never been apart in its life...amazing. I was expecting a right fight with it to get it off. It has some very annoying little dings in the tank one each side that I remember doing - all by dropping stuff on it, a biggish one at the back under the seat - photo grahping something on the seat when it toppled forward, and a long slow one under the left badge which i did when I fell of it once in the snow. Oh well shouldn't take me long to fix once I've made some dollies to get inside it.
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Dont forget the washers under the tap screw heads or it will leak through. I used dowty washers as generic fibre ones are too thin and too big an OD
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will do Bryan....had a busy day today...!
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/tank-blue.JPG)
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Now that is really nice.
Cheers
Den
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Great job , was that out of rattle cans ,or did you mix up and use a spraygun and compressor
BTW that is great progress you are making , superb detail and quality with everthing your doing
Pete
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Thanks chaps...yes its rattle cans....an unbelievable finish for what they are. I paid
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Had the tank and side panels out in the sun all day today hardening off, so I had a go at the clocks. In about 1990 a local Honda dealer closed down. Frettons of Coventry was a big shop and their spares dept was the best in town. They put up 5 or 6 tressle tables and had a closing down sale of all the leftovers in the spares dept. What a shame I was skint. Anyway al I could afford was a pair of clocks for a tenner but I didn't look at them closely enough. No good for my 500...totally wrong...cables come out at an angle and speedo contains idiot lights. The plus side is the bowls and glasses are the same. So I swapped everything over today and dipped the tip of my faded needles in some red paint and hey presto very good nick clocks from a load of scruffy looking tat.
Another problem though, I slit the rings with a 1mm dremmel disc and now I need to put them back on. What methods have you guys got for this. I was thinking of brazing/soldering a couple of small tubes on the ends - one threaded the other not - and use a small screw to tighten them up. A bit like a hose clamp.
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Who's rattle cans did you use, the finish looks great !
Cheers
Den
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This stuff..!! Its cheaper than I thought..!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/metallic-blue-spray-paint-400ml-/150581060846?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item230f54a4ee (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/metallic-blue-spray-paint-400ml-/150581060846?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item230f54a4ee)
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Well those bloody clock bezel rings have been bothering me to hell. So tonight I got on my little lathe and made some tiny stainless bushes. Some with a clearance hole and the others tapped 3mm. I made a few and did some trial and error on an old ring. They are stainless rings so as I had no silver solder or flux I brazed them onto the ring...worked OK but looked a bit messy. I have ordered some silver solder and found my flux so should be good to go when that arrives. I also ordered a kit of small size stainless screws for
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Decided temporarily to abort my search for decent switchgear. The type I have is not stock anyway and unfortunately comes from a 550 K3 or one of the 750's and seems fairly sort after. I'll get some propper 500 ones I think and not waste my time/money on stuff thats wrong and expensive.
SOOOOO.. as a stop gap I just bought some really cheap, as new, CX500 stuff, totally complete
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Still ummming and arrrghing about this dammed tank...!!! 500 or 550
http://knkcycles.com/honda-cb500.htm (http://knkcycles.com/honda-cb500.htm)
Whatever I finally decide to do I will be painting the stripes on though - I cant face that much money and application hassle for a few bits of vinyl.
Silver solder not arrived ...screws not arrived...might aswell degrease the frame now I think and whizz it off for powder next week. Bike Should be up and done in a fortnight...hehehhe..yeah OK :o ;D
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Well it wasn't a flook...I cut my support bar off the bottom of the tank and flatted the whole thing with 800 this afternoon - to get rid some sanding marks. It was so good the first time that I didn't think it posible I could achieve the same finish again but I did easily....its good stuff that paint.
I've put it in the house for tonight...smells a bit but she hasn't noticed... yet.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/tank-2.JPG)
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Looking great, my 4 cans arrived two days ago, thanks
Den
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Carefull with the cx500 switches as the kill switch works the opposite way round as it connects the black/white to earth to stop the engine and disconnects for run
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Last night I decided to strip the rest of the frame - practically nothing left, rubbers for side panels and the 2 stands.
What a nightmare....I never noticed in the past that one half of one of the centre stand brackets was missing. On top of that the whole lot is seriously worn and the long bush is seized solid in the stand. After an hour or so of struggle I had to give in with my idea of frame to powdercoaters today. What a crap design all that is but I have to sort it somehow...!!
Others must of had this grief with the centre stand....what did you do...?
So was fed up after hacking that off and went on and made my oil cooler mounts...thats going to look real neat, and the horn can stay where it is aswell. Do some pics tonight..still cant finish the clocks because solder not arrived, screws have though.
After lots and lots of indecision I have finally decided that blue only looks good with a 550 style stripe. So when its hardened off I cant wait to mess about doing that. I really wanted the old 500 style black panel and if I'd done it in one of the original Honda candy Brown or golds then thats what it would have been, but it dont suit blue IMO.
Thanks for heads up on CX500 switch - mind you they have'nt arrived yet either. I think its too ambitious to get this done for IOM this year, I'm going to be away too much over the next few weeks...a shame but I dont want to really really super rush it.
PS ...Den, remember that is Acryllic paint, you will need a good 2K laquer over it else a sniff of petrol destroys it.
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Yeah if I remember rightly Halfords do one.
Cheers
Den
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Noooh...not that petrol resistant rubbish from Halfords...proper 2K. I bought some of that Halfords stuff and its not that good.
I will be using a proper 2k catalyst laquer and have bought tis - never used it yet so we will see :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aerosol-Motorcycle-2k-Clear-Lacquer-PETROL-RESISTANT-/350414990227?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item51965c6b93 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aerosol-Motorcycle-2k-Clear-Lacquer-PETROL-RESISTANT-/350414990227?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item51965c6b93)
If this dont work I'll be buying proper stuff.
Just found a powder coater 7 miles away..excellent. Just got a bit of fabrication brazing and welding now and then off she goes. He says 2 weeks anyway now so that suits me as I'm on Hols all next week.
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Ok, I'll take your word for it and will order the same stuff.
Cheers
Den
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Well like I said I haven't actually used it yet...I would wait and see.
Heres some pics....silver solder finally arrived, all just needs a good polish now. Rh switch is covered in greasy hands and clock rings need
a little neaten up with my air grinder and a polish. Ignore the rusty bars.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/clocks.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/switch-lh.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/switch-rh.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/oc-bushes.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/oc-fitted.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/stand-busted.JPG)
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Fixed the stand mount...was tricky making the missing part but that looks good enough.
Its like the old girl dont want to be tarted up...all this dragging her feet...she's having a degrease and going to powder tomorrow - kicking and screaming but she's going.
I noticed a bloody gouge in the swing arm where a footrest bolt must of been rubbing away for while. Welded that up and cleaned it up.
Got a really good F swing arm if anyone wants it. Its a continuous loop rear fork and chrome chainguard jobby.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/stand-fix.JPG)
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That's nice work, I must admit I find doing a good welded repair like that very satisfying, though I then just slap a load of cheap and nasty paint over it and revel in the sheer rat look of a scabby looking bike
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Same here normally..but I've told all my mates they wont recognise the direbladder next time they see it. Its gotta look half decent. I want a few to have a go. They have always been amazed at how quick it is for what it is..but when they finally ride it they just wont believe it. Its like a torquey 2-stroke..pulls from nothing and accelerates very clockwork smoothly then has a big kick between 9,000 and 11,000 revs when it screams. Its no slouch and has seen a few modern middle weight bikes off..as i said its quite a bit quicker than a GPZ600, which is quite frightening in an elaborate push bike chassis. I generally ride it about well below 9,000 but sometimes I thrash it to death.
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Wahoo...my new airbox rubbers arrived at my dads a few days ago - I use him for postage as he's always in. They look a little rougher than I imagine a new original to look but are pretty dammed brilliant for a re-manufactured unobtainable part.
Piccies in my next batch.
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Frame and swinger dropped off at powder coaters today..ready in 2 weeks.
So...twiddle thumbs time...not likely..!!!
Time to bite bullet and do decal....ooooh..not liking this job one bit...all freehand and easy to cock up.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/tank-blk.JPG)
Really pleased with these..!
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/rubbers.JPG)
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Now that's a really neat main stand repair, I have the same problem on my F2 frame that has to be fixed, nice one.
Cheers
Den
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Yes, it didn't come out bad. Awkward making the missing bit though. It must of been broken before I bought the bike years ago, I certainly didn't break it and consequently I had no piece to weld back in.
The original is a double thickness pressing so I made basically a 'P' clip out of 14 swg. The side you can see is welded mid hole and the back leg is welded 10mm further back towards frame. ie.. the welds are offset for a bit more strength.
I dont like that black next to the blue..!!!! I hope the gold and white make it look better. I Will paint on the wide gold stripe but will use a white lining tape for the white. If when finished I dont like it blue then I can just get some Garnet brown and mask up the two black panels and away I go...its the black bit thats time consuming, the main body of the tank and side panels are a doddle to blow in any colour really.
The garage is bare now, most of my parts have been sneaked into the house, under the bed, in my wardrobe..blah blah. Its quite good actually because only the shit is left in the garage and I can work through the pile part by part.
I'll be back on the polisher tonight with the clock rings, the CX500 switchgear, and the rear brake back plate. Forgot to order a chain and sprocket set...well I cant really cos mines got weird gearing. I think 18-34. Definately 18 front and a stock 500-4 rear. Its because it has a 550 gearbox and the 600 motor.
All good fun though eh.. :) and when this tanks finished I'll start enjoying it again. ;D
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Is that a water slide decal or a vinyl sticky one ?
Cheers
Den
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Neither its black gloss spray. I outlined it freehand with 3mm lining tape - actually visible in the pic. Then I simply masked up and used the same make
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That is a nice job of masking, be interested to see the next stage.
Cheers
Den
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Oh deary deary me...a big cock up. The black on the tank is very soft, like very very soft. In fact the blue is a bit soft to. It should of been dry enough in this weather after 3 or 4 days but it marked like crazy with just the tape. So I've had to strip back and paint all blue again.
Had a think and after trying out the 2K laquer on the side panels and other parts I'd got painted I formulated a plan. The laquer is absolutely brilliant stuff, I cannot believe the side panels and after 3 or 4 hours the laquer is drier and harder than the paint will ever be and looks like glass.
I'm going to have to 1 coat laquer the tank when its just plain blue, then mask up to do the black, then flat the whole lot to dull with 1200 and laquer it all again. Do gold and white stripes flat whole tank back again and give it final laquer coat. If it comes out like these side panels have it will be amazing.
Very very peed off this afternoon...it looked superb - then I trashed it with lining tape - but I cant wait a year for it to go hard. I ve put it back to all blue and will leave until Wednesday. Going to the Lakes for 4 days walking, when I get back I'll laquer it and put the black back on.
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It's a pain in the bum when that happens, rare but a pain nonethless, I usually finish models with enamel paint through my airbrush and it normally takes about 3 days for the paint finish to fully cure.
Mind you, you are finding all the pitfalls for me !
Cheers
Den
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I just had 4 days in the lake district followed by 5 days on our canal boat, I should be chilled out..!!! but this tank...man oh man.
I am very fast changing my mind about all this paint. I'm back at square one with not even a plain blue tank now. The foooking stuff is reacting with itself ...like different tins are made of different stuff. I think I'm going to have to strip it all right back to bare and start again.
The frame and swinger are back.....absolutely beautiful. The guy did a fantastic job and only charged me
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Oh well...I think I'm going to get there (bike ready for IOM) ...engine is in amd all ancillaries blasted and painted, airbox mudguards, electrics all on - but not connected. Side panels complete including badges.
But Still no handlebars and the tank is a nightmare. I feel like shot blasting the bloody thing and going and buying the proper stuff. One side of the tank has been done 2 weeks now and you can still mark it like crazy with the softest touch. Its like its bake on paint but if you heat it up it goes softer.
Creates a stunning shine but there's something wrong somewhere so its become a kind of try and save something to go with sort it out when I come back. Add some piccies later but its just the usual super clean half built bike stuff.
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Well I dont freaking believe it....my brake back plate doesnt fit my new rear hub. Holy crap, 550 K3 hubs and back plates are different to 500 fours I guess.
The hub is bored out larger on my 550 wheel and a ribbed back plate is fitted. I've had a look at some pics and it appears a 500 back plate is not ribbed..is this correct..??
I dont have my original, the brake drum liner bulged, cracked and fell to bits 20 years ago.
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Everything on a 550 rear hub/brake is different EXCEPT the brake shoes and bearings, can't remember if they can be made to fit or not
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I'd love to know where the Homdacrome man gets all of his bits from particularly mudguards. I guess the USA.
I wimped out and got my 750K0 paintwork done by a pro. Did my 400/4 in '86 though including the F2 pinstripes. I reckon that modern paints must be a real pain though.
Cheers Ash.
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I've bought a complete backplate from the US....the seat arrived today and fits like a glove...its bloody perfect, sits on all the rubbers lovely and came with an additional new seat cover, strap, and chrome strip. Original cover isnt bad and will do for now. Of course thers a problem....the catch plunger doesnt fit...must be off a different bike with a different catch system. Base is like new, and not been restored, foam is not great and is collapsing a bit. I can make a real good like new seat from the 3 seats I now have though. Gotta fabricate something for the catch...no problem but more time I haven't got.
I could machine the wheel or the back plate and make it fit but figured I might aswell get the right thing. The sprocket side fitted fine. Never gave it a thought in the eighties when I swapped it, just stuck the K3 wheel in complete and binned my old 500 wheel cos it was completely knackered.
What else did you think was different Bryan.
I changed my mind about the petrol tank stripe...its going to be the original 500 shape now cos it will be a dammed site easier to do with this soft paint.
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I have emailed "Hondachrome" over the years.
He buys his stuff in California. His prices are pretty good - even though they have increased substantially over the last 5 years.
If I needed a mudguard - I'd buy one from him any time.
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Have you tried paints4u on the internet? They do very good quality stuff and over
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Thanks for the input guys..I was starting to get depressed about how things were falling apart. One of my mates came down tonight and asked if he could have a looksy at my 500 cos he'd heard the old direbladder was having a makeover. He's been collecting 500's 550's and 400's for years and been pestering me for mine for about 10 years. He's been collecting like 20 years and has 3 lock ups full of them. I forgot he might have some of the bits I want. He saw the bike and was gobsmacked...he was that impressed he rushed home to get his camera...where did you get that new engine from..and where the fook did those new carbs come from..holy crap, Is that a new frame yours was never gonna come out that good...holy shit dude thats impressive...that cant be the race engine...whats that oil cooler off...fooking hell you better get yourself a good lock....NO, you cant take that to IOM it needs to be in a museum. Yeah yeah ..OK.
Then the missus came down with a cup of tea for us and said "Wow, is that what you've been talking about, is that the old thing that was in the horse box..bloody hell it looks new, I like that".
I'm dreading going to bed tonight...I know what the question is going to be......"HOW MUCH"
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Brake cam, brake operating arm, hub, brakeplate, all the spacers, sprocket carrier(sprocket fits same but 550 has more teeth than 500) and thats from memory when i tried to put a 500 assembly in a K3 with F swingarm
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Have you tried paints4u on the internet? They do very good quality stuff and over
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Blimey ... I reckon I just visited DS for that last time. It cost me
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If you still had / have the original hub then relining it is not that bad a job and there was a chap in Huddersfield mentioned in cmm who did it for
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Yes, I did think after looking at the problem that it would be easy to sort if I really wanted to.
Then I thought hang on a minute...!! I've got a genuine brand new 500 hub here, do i want to be putting it in a lathe and machining it. Ok so I'll do the back plate...arrgh thats OK but then it still looks like I have a K3 back wheel and my mate will be round going.."thats wrong"..!!! Also I wont have a backplate for my old hub - and I might reline that. I mean if I do end up doing another winter on this bike then some old wheels and 4-1 exhaust will be straight back on..no messing.
So for a
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Personally I like to have a spare wheel with good tyres in the shed in any case as tyre changing using leavers in winter and in a cold workshop fails to amuse - I prefer to wait til summer and just swap the whole wheel when the tread wears out. If I ever invest in shiny new wheels or rebuild using new rims then I may well be sure to keep them out of winter use in favour of a set of alloys or comstars getting the winter treatment. I've always been inpressed with how well a 500 copes with winter use, I have had bikes half the age where the frame has rotted clean though in a few years of all weather use which is one reason a 500/4 is one bike I'll always take a bit more trouble to keep going. The quality is frankly brilliant throughout.
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All the wiring is back on and the rats nest in the headlamp is all connected back up. A nightmare for me because of the different switch gears and wire colours. Have left that switch gear on for the moment. Sort the CX500 stuff out when I get back from IOM.
So what did I do this weekend..??? I was in the garage all weekend but achieved not very much. It was painfully slow progress fitting the exhausts...the new mounting brackets are not good and need alot of fannying about with. I found a couple of my old very rusty brackets and tried those ... perfect. I then spent ages rebending the new brackets to match the old. My new brackets are a 10 year old pattern set from DS..the pipes are all brand new in original Honda boxes bought 10 years ago aswell.
My mate came down with a scabby old rear brake backplate for me.....now that was a nightmare...it had been chromed in the past and there was bits of stuck chrome and mega corrosion. I vapour blasted it, filed it, sanded it, vapour blasted it again. I was going to polish it, but thought sod it, and painted it. The new pattern shoes didnt even fit - they need copious amounts of filing at both foot and mounting eye.
Only piece of luck I had was that my original 500 wheel spindle with all its spacers and nuts has been poking out at me for years and years on this shelf without me really seeing it. I thought ..arrrgh I know what that is now and went straight to it and it all fitted bang on. I gave up last night at 01:00am this morning.
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How do the rear indicator brackets fit to the frame on a 500. Is there a rubber somewhere..???
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From memory the braket bolts to the rear mudguard bolts--no rubber, unless its a US model of course
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Theres a great big hole in the bracket and its channel shaped. The sides do not go outside the frame..should they .. I cant remember. If i just bolt it on it will crush down the middle of the bracket. I do actually remember the old brackets being a bit crushed...but hat cant be right surely.
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Here is a pic of "so close but so far"
Not the greatest of backgrounds ...hahaha
Bigger pic HERE (http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/nearly.JPG) ..shit must change the mainstand spring, I bought one definately.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/nearly.JPG)
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Keep going, keep going, looks lovely and shiny and clean enough to eat dinner off it....well done!
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I am, I am, ;D .. its surprising how long it all takes though. I was maybe a tad ambitious trying to get it all done in a couple of months. Its not meant to be a full restoration but when it comes down to it its dammed hard to bolt something rusty to your nice new shiny bike, even a rusty headed bolt hurts.
Finally got my petrol tank back in all blue again last night.
That back plate looks horible in the pic...might do that again. Allthough It actually looks OK in the flesh. The lever on the backplate and the brake lever itself are very scabby things. They are the only horible unrestorable parts I've used so far. My brake lever has seen way too many mods fitting loads of exhausts over the years and I need another one.
Indictors are rubber mounted...I used a couple of those rubber grommets with the metal inserts...work a treat. Would like to see what the propper fixing is.
Carbs are on the bench being jetted etc to match the old ones . The old carbs were spot on.
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Here is a pic of "so close but so far"
Turning green of envy here... :o
Absolute brilliant and fabulous job there!! 8)
Lightyears away with my two CB500/4s still sitting untouched in the barn, whilst being occupied with the other project...
Your thread just reminds my how long the way is, I'll have to go there.
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Another nightmare problem. The new exhausts I bought 10 years ago have a major manufacturing fault. The first bend by the head isn't bent enough on no3 cylinder.
It stands out a mile when all pipes are bolted to the head. All the other pipes sit pretty close to the rear mounting and the rear connecting pipes line up on the left pipes. On the right pipes 3 and 4 they are half the hole out on the connecting pipes and no 3 is hangin well below its mounting hole and too far forward. I could easoily fix it with a bit of heat but that would screw the chrome. I dont know what to do..!! what a pain.
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Are they mounted onto spiggots at the head? if so could you make up a bespoke one to re-align the pipe to get a better fit.
It looks really good though, a very nice bike.
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Have you got it the correct side of the side stand flange/bracket as it doesn't go where you think it ought to!
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Its the righthand side Bryan - the side you can see in the above pic. All is fine as they hang loose but when you do the engine flanges up the inner lower (no.3) drops and pulls forward dramatically. You can see whats going wrong at the front. No3 pipe sticks up and out alot more than the others - like its got 3 or 4 sealing washers in the head and the others have none.
I had a go at it last night and it just about fits now. I had to seriously bend the tight bend in the header some more. I've put a small ding in it on the inside but the pipe would need re-chroming otherwise and I haven't got time for that. Got some more fiddling to do with it tonight. I used a 6ft Jemmy bar down the header pipe by grinding the end down to fit in the pipe. Worked really well. I think I'm going to have a go at No1 pipe aswell...that was a bloody tight fit and needed the bracket altering alot. I've blamed the brackets for the poor fit on the left but on the right its definately a very poorly made pipe.
I remember buying and fitting a set of these in the early 90's...I just bolted them on..no issues. I bought a secondhand set of K3 pipes in the eighties - straight bolt on no probs. I've bought numerous aftermarket pipes, Motad etc, and its always been a lot of pissing about. Well these pipes are like that, like someones had a bloody good go but their quality control is non existant. Just like trying to bolt on an ill fitting Aftermarket pipe. I hadn't expected that, I thought I was buying genuine Honda parts....!!! I've lost faith in DS alot doing this bike.
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If you're going to screw the chrome, now's the time to do it (when its clean)
It surely can't cost that much to rechrome one header?
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Steve..I paid alot of money for this stuff believing it to be genuine Honda. If it was genuine Honda then it was out of their scrap bin. I probably got a set someone had allready returned once before, its my fault I suppose, for just storing them until needed without checking them. I'm seriously peed off about it though and haven't got time to go getting it replated.
The fact that I have to tweak them at all is bad, if these arrived on the production line at build time they would just have been chucked in the bin. So I'm having to put up with inferior crap from the start but paying top dollar for it.
Those rubber connecting pipes at the back force you to hold quite tight tolerances with the bending and welding of the pipe. A small amount out at the front is huge at the back. Mine is as far out as:- 1) The gap between the pipe stubs is longer than the rubber hose when the pipes are bolted to the hanger. 2) the inside pipe is too short, the outside pipe is too long.
3) the interconnecting pipe stubs are half and half over each other..no chance of fitting the hose - even when I get them closer together.
If I'd just bought them I'd send them back and stick with my 4-1. I'm Annoyed at the moment.
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They are Honda But over time the jigs wear and/or it was one that got through, DS would have replaced it immediately if you had found it at the time.
Incidentaly that was why 350 four pipes were unavailable for a long time, The jig for one pipe got damaged and Honda saw no reason to repair/replace it for a limited run of spares
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The trouble is Bryan I have to get these to fit properly and I mean properly with little to no strain on them. If I was just gonna stick the bike in a heated garage and use it once a year then it would be OK now...but I use my bikes alot. What happens if its under any kind of pre stress is that the silencer cracks all over the place. I've seen it a few times before on other bikes. Theres no rubber mounting on these systems as you know, and even though the engines are smooth, everything has a some sort of vibration.
You load some stress on by forcing the bolts in and doing them up and then you gently vibrate it. A recipe for premature failure. I'm fairly confident I can sort it tonight, but I'm supposed to be getting on with my tank, not farting about with genuine parts that dont fit.
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The pipes have taken over my life but at least i now have the worse side fitted as nice as they are going to get. A couple of hours with lumps of wood and serious alterations to rear brackets has done the trick. I also managed to get the black panels painted on the tank in between cursing about the pipes. All of the pipes are wrong not just no3..No's 1 and 4 are pretty bad too. 2 is about OK.
I will not buy any more of those pipes...!!! as soon as the bikes all done and comes back from IOM the 4-1 is going back on and these things can live in the loft. The silencers seem to be made of paper..!
Masking has marked tank but i'll flat with 1200 anyway which will clean that up, then put the white stripes on and laquer the dammed thing..I've had enough. If its shit I'll blast it all off when I get back and do it with proper stuff.
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Done...!!! Looks bloody fantastic if I say it myself. Stripes are single lining tape, badges are new. Now to see how tough it is...??
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/tank-3.JPG)
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Fantastic job, and a nice "save", have you put the clear lacquer on yet ?
Cheers
Den
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Yes Den, its got that 2k in a can stuff on. Just waiting for my chrome trim to arrive now. Cant believe that my original petrol cap cleaned up as well as it did, its one or 2 pits but otherwise looks like new...amazing....needs a new rubber though.
Pipes are fitted, all my painting and stuff is done...just gotta put the carbs on now. Oh no, go to bleed the brakes aswell, but cant do that until I can get the right bars because I may need a longer brake pipe if I cant.
Must get some polish next to get my oily hand prints off all my shiny chrome...haha
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Getting nearer and nearer...but dont these little jobs stack up. I want to keep my old original number plate, no particular reason its just a yellow one but its aluminium embossed and unusual in that its 3 lines "abc 123 d". The pic below is not long after I bought the bike and I still have the same plate and I want to get a mudflap like that aswell. Will be looking out for another tank and sidepanels - I should of done it Brown.. ::) I was still living at home in this pic. Actually, as it has the K3 pipes I must of had it 2 years allready.
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/Honda6.jpg)
Took me all night last night to finish and fit the carbs....of course then I had to fire it up, so I get my new cables out , they're too short..!!. I never checked but I'm sure I ordered USA spec cables. oh well fit the old ones..I polish up the pipes to avoid staining them, fit the oil filter, fill it up with oil, fit new choke cable, miles too long, fit old one again. Hook up Temporary fuel bottle, fill up, petrol pisses out of number 2 carb but a couple of taps with a screwdriver handle stops it. Then it comes out of number 3 ..tap tap stops it.Wipe up quickly.
Turn key on oil light comes on and seems very bright then goes pop...fit new bulb...another 10 mins because the rubber holder split.
Finally ready...press button expecting lovelyness...instead get mis-firing..pop bang..hellish eratic crap. oooh dear, sod it, what have I done.
Have a bit of think and a bit of a stare at it, pour in some more petrol and fire it up again....loads better this time, i dont know what that was..??, still the odd pop from one cylinder, tickover is very erratic. My old carbs were better than these...!!!! Oh well I'll get the vac gauges on em and see if that helps. Its had its heat up and cool down, I'll check tappets, points etc and have another go tonight.
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You could ask these guys about a plate:
http://www.pl8s.co.uk/Framptons-Motorcycle-Plates.php (http://www.pl8s.co.uk/Framptons-Motorcycle-Plates.php)
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Oh nooooh...I dont want a new one..!!! the original is not in bad nick its just that the holes in the mounting plate dont line up so I have to drill more. Mind you the ones in the mounting are awful all over the place things anyway....I should have and will eventually weld them up. Drill some more for now.
I like the fact that some key parts make this bike look like it always did. Thats why I want the same handlebars...they appear unobtainable though, I've bought 3 pairs of bars now..thats
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Well I'm one happy chappy. I stripped the new carbs completely and found a couple of things...needles were in top groove, god knows why, mine were in centre groove. 2 of the primaries were solid with something, I couldn't clear them out, it was like they hadn't been drilled in the first place.
So I just swapped the lot out my old carbs and set the needles to middle. Shoved it all back on and the results were superb..back to normal and sounds great with the 4 pipes, strangely its noisier than my 4-1. I remembered what I did with my main jets in the end..I drilled them 1 size at a time when I was tuning it. I had loads of 90's but full sets of 100's 105's 107.5's 110's etc would of cost a fortune and I allready had the drills......trouble is I've lost the piece of paper that I wrote the final size down on and the marker pen on the float bowl has long gone, so I just stuck the drilled 90's in the new carbs. The bike will never be sold so who cares.
Now the next problem, its not charging properly, 12.9v at the battery at anything above 3,000 revs. It never had this problem before, maybe an earth or something with all this powdercoat or maybe one of the jenny wires has come adrift when I was messing routing the starter motor wire. Rotor magnetises OK, its just not producing at the battery. Rectifier and voltage control box were OK before and I do have spares so shouldn't take me long whatever it is.
Just handlebars and brake bleeding now then....was going to take it to local bike meet tomorrow night but I think thats out. MOT Friday now instead of tomorrow dinner aswell. Must take it out for a bit of a whizz before IOM in 10 days time. Suppose I'll be carb balancing and brake bleeding tomorrow night aswell and job done - rusty handlebars will have to stay for now.
It does actually look like a new bike....not what I intended but I'm well chuffed with it. All stainless fasteners except 5 rusty bolts That I've ordered and should arrive next week.
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I am getting seriously fed up now...The bike is running like a dream..purring over at 800 rpm with no clonks ...running lovely..just like it did 30 years ago.
Trouble is I cant bleed the sodding brakes. Its just took me 3 hours to bleed the front brakes...cant someone make parts right these days. I bought a collection of stainless bleed nipples from hel about 5 years ago for my rd's but included a few for the Kawa and Honda at the same time. The Honda ones are wrong....!!!! FFS they are 0.5mm to big on the shoulder before the taper. I spent an hour trying to get fluid to come out the bleed nipple. In the process I nearly stripped the master cylinder again. It turned out that the hel bleed nipples were 0.5mm too fat just before the taper and no fluid could pass them unless the nippl
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Check the resistance between pairs of yellow wires into the generator as sometimes the soldered connections can give up, also i have seen mechanical damage (dropping type) of the windings.
Probably the regulator points sticking is the most common fault or a lack of removing powder coat at an earting point. Some where on the US site is the Hinda description of how the charging system works--I know its there i just not sure where
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Do you mean this one Bryan?
I think you sent it to me in the first place.
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Here are the diagrams.
What idiot set the forum attachment limit to 5?
Oh, that'll be admin.
Oh, that's me...
I have hi(er)-res versions of these if anyone would like me to email them.
Steve
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Just had a nights sleep and a few beers so all is well with the Honda again. Except you try to do a job without getting brake fluid everywhere and what happens....oh never mind its done now and everything is washed down...no real damage. The goldwing master cylinder and hel pipes work a treat, dont normally like braided hoses because they give the brakes such a wooden solid feel at the lever (I like a bit of spongy feel) but these seem OK.
Thanks for those diagrams, love reading stuff like that. excellent.
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Handle bar problem solved....I 'adjusted' the
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That's interesting what you say about "brake sponge" I think brakes need that as well and too many confuse that with brake power and fade resistance, lever feel is critical especially on road tyres in the wet.
I new somebody who had an R1, just had it painted yellow american race colours, new six-pot calipers hoses monster discs etc, first ride out in the wet and grabbed the brake, Tink-loc-crash and trashed all the plastic!
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Its daft to have a brake lever thats solid....no manufaturer makes them like that and of course they could if they wanted too. I have an RD500 track bike with the best brakes in the world for a road bike. They are of course not RD500 brakes..the bike has a complete 1998 R6 front end with 'blue spot calipers', stock rubber hoses and new Yamaha pads, brakes dont get much better. I'm not just talking about stopping power I'm talking about the whole experience of braking, I've yet to ride anything with as good all round braking as those early blue spot R6's. Thundercats and thunderaces are blue spots aswell but they aren't the same, they have a metal brake pipe bypass that the R6 doesn't have. I have a Thunderace and its brakes are OK but not in the same league as the R6.
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Oh forgot...The BSA A65 high rise bars did arrive but very disappointing...high rise my arse.
I appear to have gone mad buying handlebars left right and centre but its OK I have bikes for all of them. I have a Matchless 500 Hells Angel bike which needs the 8" rise bars I bought, and the BSA bars will fit perfect on my original 250 leaner bike (Moto-Guzzi TS 250 Electronica). So I haven't wasted the money - I'm too tight to do that. ;D
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I love the bars on my bike. Someone kindly put them on in the seventies and they have been there ever since - now impossible to find the same.
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and..
Only problem is I've just broken the clutch cable and having to wait a week for a new one to be made.
To bleed the brakes you have to move the master cylinder up the bars to a level position, then when it's done slide it back down again.
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TA dah...!!!!! was MoT'd this afternoon and ready to go...well almost ready ...just a polish up and few things here and there.
(http://www.sohc.co.uk/gallery/681_04_06_13_10_25_33.jpeg)
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Nice on Cyril 8), thats a beauty ;),
there was a very tidy Brown one at wednesday bike night if its there next week i'll get a photo of it for you,
so you off to the TT on it ?, cheers Mick.
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Very nice, you done that really quickly, i hope you get to enjoy it with this really good weather we are having
Pete
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Nice job, that looks great.
Cheers
Den
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Oh yes definately off to the TT on it next week now....been blasting about this afternoon, firing it upto red line and well over 100mph, she's flying.
Certainly cooked all the engine paint but also annoyingly have some leaks...one fork seal is pissing it out like it hasn't even got a seal, one cam end cover is leaking slightly, its one that i swapped because the one on my other engine was less work to polish, oh well Ive some new orings somewhere. Also one of my tappet covers has a large crack half way round it that I never spotted when i blasted it.
Will order some proper Honda fork seals and send yet more pattern tat to my scrap heap, I'll fix the other leaks in an hour or less. Very pleased with it. Have to fit my screen though, the wind at high speed is horrendous.
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that is one fine looking bike, well done mate
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Why I've kept this bike all this time has all come flooding back to me over the last couple of days. I love it and cant keep off it. Its so pleasurable to ride compared to the modern stuff. With my 600 motor giving it mainly more grunt and the easy flickable nature and basic comfortable riding position its briliant.
I didn't have engine oil leaks, it was the leaky fork firing oil over the engine. Will get the fork tubes re-chromed when I get back, just hope some original seals will do a good enough job for the week.
Also will definately hang around on the boat to tie it down myself....its is now by far the best bike in my garage.
Oil cooler plumbed up...looks like it was made for the job. Screen bodged on and works a treat. Vinyl tank protector stuck on where seat rubs..just been riding it about AGAIN...oohh lovely.
Florence....my bars were put on in the seventies aswell by the young bird that owned the bike...bars like this were readily available then for Triumph twins and the likes but you try and find some now - as you say.....I had to severely modify a new pair to get them even something like.
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Ok 2 more problems.
Carbs..
Looking at that pdf I posted my carbs came from a late cb500 K3 American bike, yet I know they came off a 'S' plate 78 550 K3 UK bike that was only 3 or 4 years old.
My problem was with needles....The new carbs I have had E2349F needles as do a spare set of carbs I have, yet my old carbs from the K3 that ran perfect had these E2350F things. All though the bike seemed to run OK it was very rich low down with the 49's and my plugs were black. I saw that chart in the PDF and stripped my old carbs again to check this out...I swapped the needles over and all is fine now.
Another thing.....I didn't know they did a 500 K3..?? All the carbs I have have 42 primary jets...I've never seen a 38 in one of these bikes.
Forks..
My K3 forks are shot to pieces...the legs are worn and pitted and the bottoms are worn out....they did do all the miles over the years and i shouldn't be surprised. I still have the original 500 forks and they are in very good nick even after kicking about my garage since early eighties. So last night I did some swapping about. The good 500 legs are now in the 550 bottoms and the seroious leaking is now fixed. The legs are very different but seemed to fit OK and should get me through the IOM after which I'll get the 550 legs re-chromed and some new bottoms.
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Some odd pics i didn't post
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/od-1.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/od-2.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/od-3.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/od-4.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/Honda500f/resto/od-5.JPG)
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500K3 was a European only model, was a 550 bottom end with 500 barrels and different bits in the carbs, only ever seen one in UK and that had been mis registered by DVLA as a tax exempt 1972 bike( don't tell anybody!!) Internals vary between 500 and 550 on forks but if you just undo the allen screw that holds the sliders on and leave all the internals in the legs, swopping complete, there is not usually a problem, until you forget what you did!!
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Interesting about the 500K3...never heard of that bike.
Whats weird is that the only needles that seem to work on my bike are E2350F yet all the carbs I have except the ones off that 78 K3 UK bike have E2349F. I have measured the needles and they only differ for the top 25% the rest of the needle to the tip is identical. The 50's are slightly bigger dia than the 49's at the top making them leaner at initial pick up and low revs.
I'm fairly sure that the other 2 sets of carbs I have are from F models and both have E2349F richer needles, maybe the 4-1 required a richer needle.
Finished the bike off completely yesterday, rear footpegs, seat adaptor plate for catch - god knows what the seat is off, but it fitted perfect execpt catch and is like new underneath so I dont care - catch now works a treat.
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Show us the pattern on the top of the seat - that'll indicate which model it came from.
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I found out what it is now....I reread the ebay ad..doh..!!....'its a K0 seat, the one with the latch' it says..'not the plunger'.
Well i didn't know they were any different all i was bothered about was a very good base with an half decent cover for less than the DS fibreglass shite that dont fit at all...result. Didn't read the ad that closely..it said cb500 four and I thought that'll do for me and pressed buy it now as quick as i could.
I've made a neat adaptor plate out of 10mm ally to fit my plunger and its about the best fit seat I've seen. The pics dont do it justice, theres not a gap all round it and its totally original.
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I have to hand it to you, that is a very fine looking machine!
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If it's a K0 seat and in good nick, it's worth about
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Thats what I paid for it....but I stupidly paid the same for a DS new pattern seat first a) because I thought it had a plastic base b) because at the time I had nothing else as my base was completely rotten.
When I get back I'm going to pinch the foam off my original seat which is surprising good and retrim both of them. I got the DS effort to fit using all the rubbers off my old seat and to be fair it now sits nicely on all of them, however its is too short at the front and needs lengthening on the sides about 10mm and some extra shaped foam building in from lower front corners up. Basically the top of the seat touches the tank but then tapers away leaving a huge gap down the sides. It looks horible, you can see straight through a 1" gap. Also the chrome trim fits awfully, and at the back the base hasn't been trimmed square, its low on one side which also looks crap.
I can sort both of them though...the K0 seat came with a new cover strap and trim thrown in, so in the end I'l have 2 as new seats.
Now another problem, my mates are saying I must be mad taking it to IOM - its too good to put on the ferry. They dont look after them too well apparently and to tie them down its just a big strap ratcheted down over the seat, screwing the side panels on old bikes. I dont mind trashing it using it but I'd be pissed off if gets knackerd on a ferry.
oh, new rear brake lever arrived from the states today..allready on..lovely.
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just a big strap ratcheted down over the seat
That's all I've ever seen on any ferry...
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That's all I've ever seen on any ferry...
The reason I always bring my own tie-downs when going to the Isles...
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If I'm going on the Honda I'm travelling light....just a rucksack with 5 pairs of socks and boxers, 5 T-shirts, a spare pair of jeans and my modern trainer like walking boots. Shower gel and tooth brush.
No room for ratchet straps, socket sets, waterproof covers, hairdriers, straighteners, or my pulling outfit..!! ;D ;D
Had another whizz about on it last night but still using the 'Z' for work. I'm driving my missus up the pole with, "Should I go on it or not..?, what if..?, I've not tested it enough yet..! ", she said, "3 sodding months ago it was a pile of rusty worthless crap, just go and have fun on it, what can happen that you cant fix, now shut up about it". So thats it Its definately going.
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No room for ratchet straps...
Take the non-ratchet types instead (as used for fladbedding on trailer) and stuff them into your socks ;)
(serious: I fill my deck-shoes in the panniers with items like phone charger, beart-trimmer and such... ;D)
An I agree with your wiffer, take the thing out on the road, it's begging for it, seriously... 8)
They'll only break when sitting around anyway...
Enjoy!
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Of course its right I should just abuse it as normal...but I dont half miss my old knacker now. I just went back to the front of this thread to have a look at it how it was and I think I had a moving 'Titanic' moment 'cruising' through those old pics :o ;D Ridiculous but there is something to be said for having a bike your comfortable on, like riding, and dont give a shit about the appearance of.
When I took this bike to the TT last was in 1991, it was an old knacker with a shagged 550 motor that I used to fly around pissing about on it, superb fun. This time I've got to treat it the same as last time. Dont be surprised if it looks a bit different when it comes back..!!! I think I should of waited another 10 years before I did this bike up.
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I think all the memories flashing up while riding it over there again will bring a broad smile all over your face ;)
The best pics and movies are stored in your head.
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Blimey..another set of useless handlebars turned up last night...forgot I bought these...ooops.!! They are so close to my old ones but alas still no cigar. hehe.
The proper fork seals and anothert tappet cover arrived aswell...seals are much better looking things than the pattern efforts I fitted, those dust seals are expensive...!!
Took the camcover off last night to re-tighten the head - its got a homemade copper head gasket and I have to do this If i dont want leaks. All went well, re-did tappets and put it all back together.
I thought right....lets go give it some shit, make sure she can still take it before chancing it in IOM. I sure gave it some welly...flat out everywhere took it upto 120mph on speedo down a slight hill and screamed it through all the gears for half an hour. One problem raised its ugly head...the rear shocks are shit, rock hard and cause the wheel to skip and the clutch to let go. At 120mph it weaves like mad. It was always a bit weavey flat out but not as bad as it is now. Could have something to do with cheap cheng Shin tyres. haha
I had a bounce up and down on the rear and it is very hard even on softest setting...its not the spring its the damping. I rode down a bumpy lane and it was very uncomfortable. Might put the old Koni's back on for now and just use these crappy shiny things for show.
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You took Cheng Shings that fast!!!! You must have a death wish, that is unless they have improved 1000% since i was fitting them----would only fit them to C50 & 70's the 90's were to powerful for them
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I was a dickhead Bryan....I didn't think I'd be using the bike that much once it was done and didn't see the point in
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Don't sweat it, last time i was fitting tyres in anger was over 30 years ago and I'm sure they have improved, just had to make the comment!!
I have yet to find tyres that handle better than TT100's but the rear dont last long and to get the best you need the skinier 4.10x18 rear as against the 4.25/85x18.
I have been cheating for years and buying from central tyres swearing blind i am a dealer and paying with card on order, but then havent bought any for a few years now so they may have tightened up.
Other ones i personaly like are the metzeler's using ME77 rear and ME11 front, I think you have to put tubes in a tubless but that seems the norm now
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Do you know what the most pleasing thing about this bike is...its come to light that my family and non biker friends hated it and thought it was an horible looking thing.
Oh not anymore...!!! they all love it now dont they. My daughter came home from holiday the other night and was talking to my Missus and her mates in the garden as I returned from my mega blast. All heads looked left and my daughter came prancing over ..wow dad... is that that horible brown thing, i hated that bike it was awful....!! The rest of them admitted to dis-liking my old Honda with various comments about its horibleness.
Convinced me that all ya gotta do to impress a bird is give her something 'shiny'.
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...all ya gotta do to impress a bird is give her something 'shiny'.
truly spoken... :D
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The decision has been made for me...its definately the Honda. One of our group comming down today from Skegness broke down on the motorway and I've only just got back from picking him up in my van...A bloody 2007 R1 and his rectifier has burnt out. Well this caused me to miss my MOT slot for the Z and his R1 is now sporting my Z's rectifier anyway. The Ace has a bald tyre that i didn't notice...so I've just been sat in the garden polishing, and ravishing she looks too...all filled up with juice, no leeky forks, and my rooksack packed - with a tub of polish in it aswell. hehe
Argh awesome cant wait to get going now.
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Have a gud un mate 8) and take plenty of photos ;) also watch out for Biffta (dave) on here on his 400/4 from Liverpool ;), cheers Mick.
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What a week we had. Rather alot of beer, Alot of laughs, and we had the most photographed bike in our road. It was so ridiculous we started hiding after a couple of days because it was non-stop. Photo after photo and non stop chatting about it to folk from countries everywhere. We were on a major road next to the Lido with alot of people traffic.
Wherever we went people stopped and looked at it. My mates got pissed off with it in the end - even I did.
I even had folk pull up next to me at traffic lights and talk about it. Everyone loved it.
It goes pretty good too apparently. We went alot of the way there at 100+ mph at one point cruising at 110 for about 20 miles. My speedo said 80mph, I've got to sort that, I had no idea what speed I was doing. My mates R1 packed up again over there so he had to push his bike onto the ferry and come back on the back of me. He's 16stone but the little Honda didn't miss a beat and we were still doing 100 odd alot of the way back. Amazing.
Highlight for me was out gunning a Kettle (GT750) up the mountain mile relatively easily..definately shocked him..it was the first time I've thrashed it for ages and it surprised even me...a bloke behind on a VFR said it hit 120mph going up, but over 130mph on the decent and he went on about it all night.
I had a bit of clutch slip trouble when the oil was cold if i gunned it, but when it warmed up its was OK. Post some pics later.
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That sounds like you had a good time, 130 MPH would put most of the 750's to shame, i would not dare to push my bikes that hard , maybee i should give my f2 a blast and see what it does
Pete
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I did see a tidy 550 and an import 750 but only on the ferry comming back. They passed us in the streams of bikes whilst we waited for my mate to push his R1 off the boat. My mates F2 that was the same colour as yours did 125mph flatout. We used to compare my 600 against his 750 during the tuning of the 600 motor. I saw a 350 four actually in the Ramsey sprint, we nearly entered mine, but I decided the clutch wasn't good enough so we entered my mates old 1989 ZX10 instead. He did Ok but not as good as our old 87' CBR1000 last year.
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Sounds like a good time was had by all, we have been watching the TT on the box and it certainly brought back some memories, maybe we will have to have a sentimental return to the Island one day.
Cheers
Den
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The more I think about it now I'm back the more I miss it. It was the same last year. Probably by Tuesday next week we'll be all booked up again. :(
I just picked up a Matchless G80 which has been semi chopperised but to me looks good. However, I must finish the Honda before I start that. I need to give the tank and right sidepanel another coat of laquer - they've only had one so far. I also need to do the seat.
The bike caused so much attention in the IOM that I'm going the whole hog. The mudguards are going for re-chroming, I need a couple of new engine bolts and sprocket nuts, and i want a set of new exhaust collars and a headlight bowl and trim.
Got to do something about the speedo and rev counter. Speedos OK to 60mph then it slows up and at speeds around 120mph its only saying 90 something. The rev counter seems OK until it hits the red line then it starts going in reverse...weird.
The bikes resting in the garage now - getting the occasional pat on the seat. I just cant stop looking at it. ;D ;D :-[ :-[
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End of project Honda.....almost.
My next jobby. Only got it 2 days ago and allready I love it, been tootling around local lanes on it and allthough its slow its great fun.
Matchless G80S 1952. http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/matchy/first.JPG (http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/matchy/first.JPG)
(http://www.gareth.evans9.btinternet.co.uk/images/matchy/first.JPG)
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That's my kind of bike! The only problem is they cost too much to buy.
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Well its a bit weird really..almost incestrous/interbred/'dualing banjo's'...the bike came from my mate, but its the same mate who's sister the Honda came from.
In the eighties he bought all my race bikes....My BSA Bandit framed Yoshimura 460, My TZ500 framed cb550, and my 1987 jelly mould CBR600. I'm now buying his bikes. I paid for his IOM digs for this one. A bargain even though we stopped at an expensive place.
All the correct tinware and seat has come with the bike, I am the 2nd owner on the logbook allthough it has actually had one more - his Latvian next door neighbour that bought it new in 1952. It was my mates only transport between 17 and 23 and he did about 25,000 miles on it. The other 15,000 was done by the original owner. I've done 200 miles allready and I've only been messing with it 3 days.
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wonderful and it sounds like a bargain. Being an evil and wrong-headed person, I would ride it like that and forget about the original tinware. I might change the rear lamp though to a lovely BSA one I have on my cb350 at the moment.
I reckon I would gladly sell both my CB500/4 and my CB350K to buy something like that but I'm sure that wouldn't raise enough cash and I am banned from spending money on bikes as I have 'too many hobbies' as she who must be obeyed puts it.
Looks like a lot of fun; I'm sure I will find something one of these days. I've always fancied a ratty G11. (probably shouldn't say that on a Honda forum ;D
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Agree about the back light - thats Suzuki A120/ap50 i think...its got Triumph Bonneville everything else, mudguards and stays, handlebars, etc.
We had a mate that worked at a chrome platers in the 70's and he chromed the lot. Most of what you can see that is chrome should be gloss black - even the centre of the wheel rims.
With this one I'm doing both....obviously I love the styling of it as it is now and I will be renovating to as new in that style. Also I will get the original tin done properly and some spare bits like oil tank, primary case, and fork shrouds painted rather than chromed. All the time I'm riding it its stopping like it is now, but with some new stainless guards, a vapour blasting and tons of re-chroming. The Honda guards will go off to chromers with all the bits from this one.
Time to re-mortgage the house dear.....!!!! who said that..??
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....just need to get that really big studio job in......