Honda-SOHC
General => New Member Introductions => Topic started by: motad_uk on November 06, 2014, 02:34:30 PM
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Motad is now on the forum- not of course to sell- but to be available to give tech advice and support on exhaust matters
sorry for taking so long to wake up and join!
Ian McDonald
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Welcome Ian - nice to have a proper Exhaust company here....would you guys consider doing a Yoshi style 4-1 for the 750??
Similar to these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yoshi-Style-4-into-1-exhaust-system-HONDA-CB750-SOHC-CAFE-RACER-CHOPPER-BRAT-/390964761131?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5b0750d22b&vxp=mtr
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Welcome Ian. I think Motad must conform to a BSI standard and British rules of some sort James.
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Welcome Ian - nice to have a proper Exhaust company here....would you guys consider doing a Yoshi style 4-1 for the 750??
Similar to these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yoshi-Style-4-into-1-exhaust-system-HONDA-CB750-SOHC-CAFE-RACER-CHOPPER-BRAT-/390964761131?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5b0750d22b&vxp=mtr
For our sins- we made the uk Yoshimura for the distributor David Dixon (sadly missed!) in the 80s- they were dreadful !!- losing mid range power bigtime. Piper made a similar system which was just as bad.
not so pedantic about noise as we were- but would not be happy putting our name to this- just not enough volume to get reasonable power and noise levels
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Fair enough. There must be an opportunity though for a decent looking 4-1 system for the 750. everything I've seen to date just looks a bit bland..?
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This Forum just gets better and better . Big welcome Ian
AshD
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Fair enough. There must be an opportunity though for a decent looking 4-1 system for the 750. everything I've seen to date just looks a bit bland..?
up for doing something different- with so many people restoring them to original (and then not riding them as they have spent so much money- I regret selling that mint k2 for £330 all those years ago! )- I am up for suggestions. Only downside is that any "proper" system needs perhaps 40-50 hours of work on development and preparation for manufacture so we need to sell around 20 to cover these costs
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Welcome Ian
If you Design something better looking than the standard Motad I'm sure you would easily sell 20 on this forum alone.
Mick
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Something better looking than your current generic silencer for the CB750 F1/F2 would be great. Something with removable baffles maybe, so we can make them a little less restrictive, without drilling holes in the end of the current silencers to stop them stangling the top end power:))
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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Fair enough. There must be an opportunity though for a decent looking 4-1 system for the 750. everything I've seen to date just looks a bit bland..?
up for doing something different- with so many people restoring them to original (and then not riding them as they have spent so much money- I regret selling that mint k2 for £330 all those years ago! )- I am up for suggestions. Only downside is that any "proper" system needs perhaps 40-50 hours of work on development and preparation for manufacture so we need to sell around 20 to cover these costs
any chance of replica CB500-4 ,HM 323 pipes? I am sure there may be a reasonable market.
hopefully -))))
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welcome Ian,
It is a pity that performance related exhausts seem to be the domain of foreign makers, something with style with variable baffles would go down great guns with us cafe builders, I think they would sell!
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We did ask David Silver via myself about the 400/4 pipe issue and so it's great you are on here to answer any questions. I think we all appreciate that to replicate such a complicated ( but beautiful in my eyes) system down to an affordable price must be a real challenge. Do you ever do headers double-skinned or is that too complicated /expensive?
I had a Motad on my KZ650B1 back in '85 and it worked great and low noise levels. Apart from when my 3 year old son filled the silencer with pebbles ::). Bought a CB750K7 for 50 quid about 3 years ago that had been left under a tarpaulin outside for so long that the frame had rotted out so you can imagine how bad the bike was I called it the 'Monster from the Swamp' ..Named after a little feature in 'Button Moon' ... don't ask !! . The PO had fitted a brand new Motad to it before abandoning it but this cleaned up so well that I sold it on eBay to a guy in Cyprus for 90GB and he was well chuffed with it, so chroming must have been decent! Is your chroming done in the UK? We are always on the lookout on here for decent chromers either here or abroad.
Cheers . AshD
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Good to have you on the forum. I have have a few motad exhausts fitted to my bikes. I found the after sales support excellent when I bought a second hand incomplete system off ebay. I even have an old neta system in the shed off my cb550. they do last. I think a collector box / down pipes combo that accepted a variety of silencing packages might go down well.
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Welcome Ian - nice to have a proper Exhaust company here....would you guys consider doing a Yoshi style 4-1 for the 750??
Similar to these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yoshi-Style-4-into-1-exhaust-system-HONDA-CB750-SOHC-CAFE-RACER-CHOPPER-BRAT-/390964761131?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5b0750d22b&vxp=mtr
For our sins- we made the uk Yoshimura for the distributor David Dixon (sadly missed!) in the 80s- they were dreadful !!- losing mid range power bigtime. Piper made a similar system which was just as bad.
not so pedantic about noise as we were- but would not be happy putting our name to this- just not enough volume to get reasonable power and noise levels
Hi Ian and welcome to the forum, the yoshi copy pipes available now from other countries sell well for example carpies (steve carpenter in the USA) yoshi copy so i dont think the power drop in the mid range puts people off, surely the way forward is to build a pipe that people want, sometimes looks and noise win over power gains
pete
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Fair enough. There must be an opportunity though for a decent looking 4-1 system for the 750. everything I've seen to date just looks a bit bland..?
up for doing something different- with so many people restoring them to original (and then not riding them as they have spent so much money- I regret selling that mint k2 for £330 all those years ago! )- I am up for suggestions. Only downside is that any "proper" system needs perhaps 40-50 hours of work on development and preparation for manufacture so we need to sell around 20 to cover these costs
If you wanna do something different,how about some nice swoopy headers in polished stainless for the 550F
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That's not different. Steph has a set which were a one off.
But, i would say Ian that a lot of people are having exhausts shipped from the states. As Norniron was just one of many.
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Ditto on "different" pipes. Lots of people doing cafe racers now. Good business?? Would be good to have a quality name like Motad we all know and trust, doing such work...
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I'd definitely be interested in something other than the standard style - will be keeping my eyes on what you could do for the 550F.
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CB750F1 and F2 down pipes would be a great idea, I was lucky enough to find a new Honda set for my F1 but with an F2 to do next some help would be appreciated, I do have a new Motad and a new Alpha system in the loft but that standard look appeals to me.
Cheers
Dennis
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I have a slightly oddball question, on 3 of my spare exhausts for the cb500 / 550 the 4 into 1 collector has rotted whilst the downpipes are still in good order, silencers are still ok. This is true of all my 4 into 1 systems, not just motad, not having a go. Where you could help is could motad make the collector section as a repair piece for owners to weld into place? If so at roughly what cost? Currently I gas weld them up as neatly as possible but it could be done neater with an all new section rather than patchwork.
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Welcome Ian...Nice to see Motad represented on here, my favourite exhaust maker! owned a couple of motad systems love em, have been faultless, and appreciated your assistance with a minor alteration to a system I picked up on ebay! very quick service to change the diameter of a down pipe for me.
Ally
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That's not different. Steph has a set which were a one off.
;) are these the pipes are you talking about trigg? do you know what make they are? i had them with a cb750 i bought years ago ?
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I think he was reffering to Steph550, one of our female members, she knew someone who made her an exact replica of the standard 4 into 1 for her 550F2 in stainless. Whoever did make them did a cracking job, but she hasn't been on here for some time.
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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:-[ OK thanks but id still like to know if anybody can recognize these pipes ? cheers matey
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That's not different. Steph has a set which were a one off.
;) are these the pipes are you talking about trigg? do you know what make they are? i had them with a cb750 i bought years ago ?
Yep, steph not Steff.
Never seen a set like that before. Someone could of had them made.
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look I can only comment about motard back in the 70s I indeed fitted one to my k2 and had no problem fitted good sounded OK but it was the only alternative available at the time.Do not get offended but then as they were known as moturd as at 150 quid a go frackin cheap then but still a fortune compaired to Honda pipes.Listen I will only say this once double skin them so they do not go blue and you will have a new client are you listening?#
Cheers
Bitsa
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look I can only comment about motard back in the 70s I indeed fitted one to my k2 and had no problem fitted good sounded OK but it was the only alternative available at the time.Do not get offended but then as they were known as moturd as at 150 quid a go frackin cheap then but still a fortune compaired to Honda pipes.Listen I will only say this once double skin them so they do not go blue and you will have a new client are you listening?#
Cheers
Bitsa
Whoa!! lets not do a bikepusher on him mate ;D Agree with you on double skinning but don't know the manufacturing technique. Used to use double-skinning as a comeback on all my Brit riding mates at school/uni who used to call my bikes JapCrap
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Ash
Yeah all my mates said jap crap too but that is one of the reasons I HATED BRIT CRAP.From new as I did the frackin pipes went blue b4 the oil light went off shit in my books.
Sorry if it upsets you but I for one will never buy crap that goes blue in less time that it takes me to smoke a fag.
Cheers
Bitsa
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On the other hand most of my budget commuter bikes have wound up with motad systems, often oem no longer available. Few alternatives. I have only had one motad system rot out, in over 10 years of running some pretty rough old bikes in all weathers and with a habbit of buying used systems off ebay. I have yet to see a motad downpipe that is badly corroded. The coulor change actually looks quite good. The prices are probably what has kept me biking for so long. In fact I only did the car test aged 31, up til then it has been bikes all year round and motad exhausts have been dead handy for keeping my bikes on the road. Goes blue quick, lasts a very long time - sounds a reasonable compramise.
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Yeah you have some good pointers but like I have all ways said if you make some replacements put some effort in to it do it right or dont do it.Sorry I have no time for that will do merchants
Quick bucks and you lot suck it
Cheers
Bitsa
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I have a slightly oddball question, on 3 of my spare exhausts for the cb500 / 550 the 4 into 1 collector has rotted whilst the downpipes are still in good order, silencers are still ok. This is true of all my 4 into 1 systems, not just motad, not having a go. Where you could help is could motad make the collector section as a repair piece for owners to weld into place? If so at roughly what cost? Currently I gas weld them up as neatly as possible but it could be done neater with an all new section rather than patchwork.
the average Motad system is lasting 10 years or more- and now we are making in stainless I would have thought 25 years life span is expected. So I think that any collector area that has rusted is also going to have 15-20 year old pipes as well and welding would be a messy and non sensible option. All of our parts are available as spares and for example you can buy a silencer if you need a replacement.
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Something better looking than your current generic silencer for the CB750 F1/F2 would be great. Something with removable baffles maybe, so we can make them a little less restrictive, without drilling holes in the end of the current silencers to stop them stangling the top end power:))
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
the flow on a Motad is set to be road legal and at max power- you would not believe the "free flow" systems we have run on the dyno showing lower power. Properly designed does not mean restrictive!
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Fair enough. There must be an opportunity though for a decent looking 4-1 system for the 750. everything I've seen to date just looks a bit bland..?
up for doing something different- with so many people restoring them to original (and then not riding them as they have spent so much money- I regret selling that mint k2 for £330 all those years ago! )- I am up for suggestions. Only downside is that any "proper" system needs perhaps 40-50 hours of work on development and preparation for manufacture so we need to sell around 20 to cover these costs
any chance of replica CB500-4 ,HM 323 pipes? I am sure there may be a reasonable market.
hopefully -))))
my "tongue in cheek " comments would be (if you want exact copies!) that you want a very expensive exhaust that fails inside an average of 3 years?- only joking but we have survived for 40 years because the original exhausts were designed to last 3-4 years max as Honda wanted you to have traded and been on a new bike by then. Have to say I am concerned from both a business and personal level as we see more far eastern produced "original copies"- most that have not been developed on the bike and with cosmetic quality chrome. Ok for the bikes being trailed to shows but not good for actually riding !
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Possibly there is an internal problem on the silencer I have then, power seems strangled at high revs, struggles to get to 105, put the standard exhaust back on and it is rapid to 120!
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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I went to your web site some time ago and asked about just a silencer for a CBX550 that already has a Motad but was told not available. has this changed?
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look I can only comment about motard back in the 70s I indeed fitted one to my k2 and had no problem fitted good sounded OK but it was the only alternative available at the time.Do not get offended but then as they were known as moturd as at 150 quid a go frackin cheap then but still a fortune compaired to Honda pipes.Listen I will only say this once double skin them so they do not go blue and you will have a new client are you listening?#
Cheers
Bitsa
tooling cost for double skinning pipes will be around £25,000 per system- up for doing it (!) and offering it on all systems but not sure how I am going to convince the buyers that we have to spread the extra tooling cost!- just looking for the lottery winner to buy the first set at £25,150 and off we go!!! (and for those who missed it- I am only joking- we will continue to make systems that last a long time and that because they have been around for ever some people don't like)
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Possibly there is an internal problem on the silencer I have then, power seems strangled at high revs, struggles to get to 105, put the standard exhaust back on and it is rapid to 120!
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
contact me on ianmcdonald@motad.co.uk and we can do some investigation
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Ian, I think the attached Honda Service bulletin serves to prove your point !
And see my earlier post of the 750K7 system I had !! Amazing that it survived like it did (posted Nov 6th in this thread)
[attachimg=1]
Cheers ...Ash
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I went to your web site some time ago and asked about just a silencer for a CBX550 that already has a Motad but was told not available. has this changed?
discontinued from our range - sales stopped
don't want to start selling and turning the forum into a market- but if we had 7-8 people interested in a stainless version we could make these at a good price- if you are interested please email me on ianmcdonald@motad.co.uk - no obligation but lets see if others are up for it
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Ian, I think the attached Honda Service bulletin serves to prove your point !
And see my earlier post of the 750K7 system I had !! Amazing that it survived like it did
(Attachment Link)
Cheers ...Ash
agreed!- I think if we had offered just 12 months warranty we would not have lasted long. On a similar note however I remember applying the front brake on my 500-4 in the wet and starting the 10 second count still something happened- different times!!!
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And I feel I should own up to one dreadful fact !!!!
I no longer own a sohc- I ride a VFR750 FJ
Sorry guys!!- but I owned CB750s and done 150,000 miles on two 500/4s in my defence in the past
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Good replys ian, what are your views on making 4-1 pipes yoshi style , i know you say that they restrict power at a certain rev , but the guys who sell them sell loads even from the other side of the pond , so there is a market for that style
pete
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Good replys ian, what are your views on making 4-1 pipes yoshi style , i know you say that they restrict power at a certain rev , but the guys who sell them sell loads even from the other side of the pond , so there is a market for that style
pete
as you see- we made these under licence for the Yosh distributor- so I should not be too dismissive!. The basic issue is that with so little volume in this design you have a choice between mega noisy or no power if legal (ish!) added to this the short secondary measurements tends to stuff the midrange power, this makes it tough as many owners feel the small "kick" as power comes back from below stock and assume that this is a power gain rather than just recovering from a loss
bottom line is that we are 24 people whose food bill is paid by you guys buying exhausts- and I would prefer that you bought UK produced stuff rather than far eastern imports (even the usa stuff is often Chinese or Mexican produced)
don't want to turn a good forum into a market place- email me on ianmcdonald@motad.co.uk and we can discuss options
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Good replys ian, what are your views on making 4-1 pipes yoshi style , i know you say that they restrict power at a certain rev , but the guys who sell them sell loads even from the other side of the pond , so there is a market for that style
pete
as you see- we made these under licence for the Yosh distributor- so I should not be too dismissive!. The basic issue is that with so little volume in this design you have a choice between mega noisy or no power if legal (ish!) added to this the short secondary measurements tends to stuff the midrange power, this makes it tough as many owners feel the small "kick" as power comes back from below stock and assume that this is a power gain rather than just recovering from a loss
bottom line is that we are 24 people whose food bill is paid by you guys buying exhausts- and I would prefer that you bought UK produced stuff rather than far eastern imports (even the usa stuff is often Chinese or Mexican produced)
don't want to turn a good forum into a market place- email me on ianmcdonald@motad.co.uk and we can discuss options
I may be speaking out of turn here Ian but I am sure SteveD won't mind you advertising your wares on here Ian or can come to some agreement with you (like David at Saisei-Europe did).
Great to have you contributing here ? Did David Silver point you here when we asked him about the 400/4 system you make for him?
Cheers ..Ash
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I would prefer to be available as tech support and keep away from selling-
You are right in that David S pointed me to the forum- although I should be shot for missing you guys for so long- first Motad systems were for 500-4 and 750-4 in the early 70s
I think that many of our competitors are on the forums that we are on- but hidden behind obscure user names etc
I think that being on to give open and no commercial advise is good- although of course my views are affected by 35 years of being in this market (and of course the need to give that nice lady in Aldi some money each week!__)
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I bought my Piper from Bikes of Brighton in 1977:
(http://www.nirvana-motorcycles.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/79-New-Piper-10-05-79.jpg)
I think this was about the third. The chrome was pretty hit and miss. I remember the guy from Bikes saying "Where do you guys live? On the beach?"
Nearly - we were one street back from the prom.
Other period accessories:
- Hondastyle/Rickman fairing
- Eurodesign rack
- Air horns
- Finned covers
- Home-made battery charger plug also used to power the lighting in my tent (I was an engineering student after all)
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Reckon that's a mil. spec 'Amphenol' connector on there Steve ::) ! A tight wad of guy I worked with in late 70's got a right bollocking for using a pair of those connectors from stock as a means of quickly disconnecting the aerial on his MG1300... probably worth more than the car was. Still got some in my loft ::) if you wan't to relive your youth!
The 400/4 I own to this day had a crabby Piper exhaust on it when I bought the bike for 100 quid in 1985, soon ditched it! The standard 400/4 system was reduced by Honda around 1986 to 100 quid so I got one of those.
Cheers ...Ash
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Reckon that's a mil. spec 'Amphenol' connector on there Steve
Errr... yep.
I worked for Racal in the holidays (and went on to design military telecommunications systems for them after Uni)
If you went into the model shop and asked for a waterproof two-pin connector, that's what you got!
:)
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I think Pipers best effort was for their GT750 3-1- sounded like heaven and solved the problem of drum brakes on the early bikes by losing about 25% of the power
And the Marving of the same "thin" style I had on my second 500-4- it took me a week to realise that that slight increase in noise pulling away from the lights in Stratford was in fact the complete baffle falling off
might be fun if enough interest to do a "parallel tube" system based on our existing downpipes and front part of the silencer on 500 (550s) and 750s
anyone with an interest?- email me on ianmcdonald@motad.co.uk
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whats "parrallel pipes? "
are you considering end pipes to fit on existing stock down pipes ??
my thought is cut/remove rusted silencer,and fit slide-ons onto downpipes ???
or am I being even more stupid than normal ??
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That would be a line I would be interested in, a part that collected the existing 4 downpipes, then you can slip on a variety of end cans to suit the bike. Then I could go wild with fishtails and all manner of tasteless craziness. Not sure if others would want this though......
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Hi,
A separate "collector" would be a great idea for all the special enthusiasts, of which I am one, but commercially probably not on, as a manufacturer, why make and sell exhaust parts when you can sell complete systems, I personally think "Mr Motad" is a brave person to enter this arena (forum) considering the huge variation of exhausts already mentioned and variations there-off, most of which seem to revolve around perfect copies for original looks or yoshimura copies for the cafe racers.
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Just make something that does not go BLUE
Cheers
Bitsa
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I'm on the look out for some silencers for my 1200 trophy.The Motad ones on the bike have been on there for 22 years so not bad.They will probably last another 5
The black chrome ones look quit smart
Maybe some for the old Hondas the cafe racer boys would love those.You wont see those going blue Bitsa.
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On the other hand the chances of me buying a complete silencer are smaller than me buying just the collector for my special the exhaust kind of defines the bikes looks. I am afraid for my bike the motad chrome system for the 500/4 whilst if fitted well and did the job just wasn't the look I really want to end up with, too restrained and sensible. I don't necessarily want the full on noise of the preformace / free flowing exhausts, there Motad have the good factor, you can ride 500 miles without ringing ears at the end of the trip, but for a lot of specials the 2 motad systems I have in the shed are a bit 'safe' in the styling department. Maybe even the gatling gun look of the dunstall system I have at the end of the silencer might give the something wild factor I am after. Just my thoughts. It wouldn't take much if any tooling up, just make the first section of the silencer and the customer can add a end can to suit their bikes look. My ntv650 has a ducatti end can shoved on on this basis - somehow looks and sounds great, lovely bark if given the beans, nearly inaudible to me cruising through town in a high gear.
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whats "parrallel pipes? "
are you considering end pipes to fit on existing stock down pipes ??
my thought is cut/remove rusted silencer,and fit slide-ons onto downpipes ???
or am I being even more stupid than normal ??
sorry- me being obscure
what I mean is a thin style silencer like on the old Yosh, piper, alfa 41 etc- all of them not great on power if used as road legal- but might be of interest for special builders etc
but it would need 15 or 20 interested to be able to justify
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That would be a line I would be interested in, a part that collected the existing 4 downpipes, then you can slip on a variety of end cans to suit the bike. Then I could go wild with fishtails and all manner of tasteless craziness. Not sure if others would want this though......
always been a little careful here- easy to change from an exhaust for performance and useage- into a styling exercise
a lot of the far eastern/Chinese stuff (which apart from us is most now) offer crazy short cans etc etc- fine if you can live with being mega noisy ordown on power- but not great to ride with
we love working with bikes- but bottom line is we have to pay our bill too- and probably the average tooling and development cost of making a new end cap is £7,000- that's fine if we are selling lots but not great on the obscure ones where we might only sell 5 a year!
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Just make something that does not go BLUE
Cheers
Bitsa
no problem to make- the downside is the cost of tooling and mandrells (different for each system)
average price is around £25,000 and for the older bikes where we might only sell 100 just not viable- SORRY!
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Hi,
A separate "collector" would be a great idea for all the special enthusiasts, of which I am one, but commercially probably not on, as a manufacturer, why make and sell exhaust parts when you can sell complete systems, I personally think "Mr Motad" is a brave person to enter this arena (forum) considering the huge variation of exhausts already mentioned and variations there-off, most of which seem to revolve around perfect copies for original looks or yoshimura copies for the cafe racers.
I don't have a problem selling separate parts to experienced people- so a set of Motad pipes and also making a short collector to allow someone to add/make their own silencer is not a problem
where it gets difficult is someone less able (like me!) fitting a system badly/dangerously and also the problem that generally to make a system road legal and work you need a silencer around the size of the one we supply- short and racy looks good but is often terrible on power if legal
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I'm on the look out for some silencers for my 1200 trophy.The Motad ones on the bike have been on there for 22 years so not bad.They will probably last another 5
The black chrome ones look quit smart
Maybe some for the old Hondas the cafe racer boys would love those.You wont see those going blue Bitsa.
we brought out a range of motad silencers to fit Hinkley Triumphs when the factory moved their production to Thailand (and stopped buying from us) . They didn't sell and we stopped- basic problem we created is that they wont wear out and just like yours 20+ years later are still going
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On the other hand the chances of me buying a complete silencer are smaller than me buying just the collector for my special the exhaust kind of defines the bikes looks. I am afraid for my bike the motad chrome system for the 500/4 whilst if fitted well and did the job just wasn't the look I really want to end up with, too restrained and sensible. I don't necessarily want the full on noise of the preformace / free flowing exhausts, there Motad have the good factor, you can ride 500 miles without ringing ears at the end of the trip, but for a lot of specials the 2 motad systems I have in the shed are a bit 'safe' in the styling department. Maybe even the gatling gun look of the dunstall system I have at the end of the silencer might give the something wild factor I am after. Just my thoughts. It wouldn't take much if any tooling up, just make the first section of the silencer and the customer can add a end can to suit their bikes look. My ntv650 has a ducatti end can shoved on on this basis - somehow looks and sounds great, lovely bark if given the beans, nearly inaudible to me cruising through town in a high gear.
we made Dunstall silencers for them in the 70s!
I know the chances of being nicked for excess noise is slight - don't have a major problem selling leary stuff to experienced people who understand (like 99.9% of this forum)- the downside is when like so many of our competitors who are selling race stuff for the street without explain what their customers are buying
I would say that the majority of the crazy eu rules and regs have been created by of the eurocrats being woken up in his Spanish some crazy on an open piped horror at 2 am!
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I don't have a problem selling separate parts to experienced people- so a set of Motad pipes and also making a short collector to allow someone to add/make their own silencer is not a problem
where it gets difficult is someone less able (like me!) fitting a system badly/dangerously and also the problem that generally to make a system road legal and work you need a silencer around the size of the one we supply- short and racy looks good but is often terrible on power if legal
Hi,
My main problem along with a few others, is an engine in a fairly high state of tune that needs to "breathe" differently to a standard engine, and a hacksaw and matt black paint is the current answer or a very,very expensive model from outside the UK,a yoshimura at £650 is outside my means.
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I would expect a stainless steel 4-1 would sell around the £185 mark
this would need 10 or more people (who understood the plusses and drawbacks of a system) to come on board so that the development costs could be spread
for most of the relevant models we already have down pipes and a good idea of required lengths - so we would have a head start
so far have only had one person showing interest (and must admit I suggested to them we would be unlikely to find more)
email me on ianmcdonald@motad.co.uk to prove me wrong!
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Ian i would be interested in a 4-1 for the 750 model if we are talking £185
pete
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Count me in for two Ian. I would like to review / contribute to the design process though if at all possible. Also, if you need to borrow a 750k bike for a while to mockup/test I'd be happy to lend you one of mine for a bit...
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I don't suppose a new Dunstall silencer would be on the cards? (If the tooling still exsists) Mine has pitted chrome, not sure why but the silencer is chrome, the rest looks like a ceramic black coating or incredibly good black paint as it withstands even after all these years the gentle caress of a wire brush. Anyhow, many thanks for taking the time to join the forum and read and answer so may questions. I may well be on the phone when I have progressed my projects a bit to order a few bits. There are after all several cb500/550 bikes in my shed awaiting rebuilds.
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Ian, looking for a bit of advise.
Have a set of Honda 323's that were nos. Unfortunately they have been fire damaged. The metal is still in good condition but, have the down pipes a little out of shape.
I have spoken to a few company's that have mandrel pipe benders but, they say it is not possible because the down pipes are double skin and all they could do is cut the down pipes from the silencer and form a set of single skin down pipes to be wielded to the silencers.
Do you know of anyone in the UK that could do double skin pipes? Or any ideas on repair?
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Ian, looking for a bit of advise.
Have a set of Honda 323's that were nos. Unfortunately they have been fire damaged. The metal is still in good condition but, have the down pipes a little out of shape.
I have spoken to a few company's that have mandrel pipe benders but, they say it is not possible because the down pipes are double skin and all they could do is cut the down pipes from the silencer and form a set of single skin down pipes to be wielded to the silencers.
Do you know of anyone in the UK that could do double skin pipes? Or any ideas on repair?
double skinned pipes are expensive because of the tooling costs- to make a set of pipes would probably involve £25,000 of tooling!. The original exhausts were designed to last a max of 4 years in average use as Honda wanted us to trade the bike and buy a new one!. Problem for us is that the cost of restoration is so high nowadays that a lot of the bikes that are restored are now spending their life on display and trailers (so nor being used ) which makes it harder to justify us spending the money to make originals. My advice on repair is that anything that is done will be a short term fix purely because of the fragility of the metal to which you are fixing- and be very carefull if you want rechroming- it is rare to find a chrome willing to put used exhausts into their mega expensive chemicals and often the ones that are of poor quality
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Hi Ian,
I did point out that this was a NOS (new old stock) set. The metal is new, just a little out of shape from fire damage. No wielding or anything like that needed. There is no problem re-chroming with a set in this condition. The only problem is how to put them back in to shape seeing that they are double skinned.
How do they manufacture double skin units?
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My take on this would be to clamp up using soft jaws, probably ply, even worth rebating the shape in first. in something like my sheet metal press which can evenly clamp up to 4 foot long and weights about a ton, then heat with acetalene and see if they would streighten by hand. The tricky bit would be identifying where the streightening effort would be needed, probably a bit everywhere. It would probably need a good set to compare to and a bike to test fit against. Bet it would be a days work to do the first one. I streighted a set of forks for a mate, first one took ages, next one was faster, by the time I needed to do a set for me it was fairly quick. Exhausts would be far harder though.
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Hi Ian,
I did point out that this was a NOS (new old stock) set. The metal is new, just a little out of shape from fire damage. No wielding or anything like that needed. There is no problem re-chroming with a set in this condition. The only problem is how to put them back in to shape seeing that they are double skinned.
How do they manufacture double skin units?
the double skinning is done with complex (and pipe specific) mandrels and once bent the fixings are attached which would stop their use again
think that the problem you will have is that any skilled metal worker is going to need to introduce heat to the pipe to "encourage" it back into shape and this heat is going to discolour the chrome
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Going back to some of the earlier posts on here, I thought that the Dixon racing "Yoshimura" pipe was the best looking by far of the aftermarket stuff made at the time, a mate of mine still has one fitted to his 750 F2 which I had a look at last week and the chrome is still good on it with no blueing either, so whatever you where doing to them then seems like good quality to me.
I thought at the time that the headers were a bit too short and fat to work well on the midrange of the 750 (looks like they flow for higher rpm) that F2 was quite quick though when matched against it's contemporaries, so it can't have been bad.
As for the examples made by carpy, I think looks will probably outweigh pure performance especially on an old bike as you can just get speed on a newer bike now rather than being concerned with ultimate output on a SOHC.
Like the others who've expressed an interest, I'd be interested in buying at least 2.......if they looked like those originals but in stainless/good chrome
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Hi Ian,
I did point out that this was a NOS (new old stock) set. The metal is new, just a little out of shape from fire damage. No wielding or anything like that needed. There is no problem re-chroming with a set in this condition. The only problem is how to put them back in to shape seeing that they are double skinned.
How do they manufacture double skin units?
the double skinning is done with complex (and pipe specific) mandrels and once bent the fixings are attached which would stop their use again
think that the problem you will have is that any skilled metal worker is going to need to introduce heat to the pipe to "encourage" it back into shape and this heat is going to discolour the chrome
Hi Ian,
The fire damage was that hot that they have no chrome left on them. This is why i was trying to find someone that could bend them back into shape before i send them for chrome. Have another NOS set so they could be measured from those.
Did find another problem this week from Honda double skin pipes. The pipes on the outside are in mint condition but, the inner pipe had rusted at the cylinder head end and was vibrating at 3.500 rpm. The vibration sounded like a cylinder head problem but, it was not until you put your finger inside the down pipe that you could feel the slightest movement. Only took 4 hours to find that one out.
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Just to change the subject a wee bit, on a historical note, I am sure a few of you on here know or have heard of M&P and Busters (one and the same) well going back to mid 70's M&P had not long set up shop in Swansea and I knew Mark (the M in M&P) from school. Well I needed a new system for my 500/4 and he sold me one of his first Motad system sales and then gave me the nickname of "Motad Mike" See, history being made here...lol
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and after all these years Mark is still there grafting!- the 4 th (or 5 ) main dealer to "sign up" when we started out all those years ago.
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And his shop is only 2 minutes ride from my house. He is a Kawasaki dealer and has recently opened a Harley dealership. He has a fine collection of old bikes. :D Me..... jealous.......Naaaaa!
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Hello,
I have 550f and super keen to have Yoshi style pipes, so long oil filter can be changed with pipes on.
Thanks!
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Hello,
I have 550f and super keen to have Yoshi style pipes, so long oil filter can be changed with pipes on.
Thanks!
we made the "original" Yoshi pipes for the uk distributor in the 70s- downside to the design is that midrange power is reduced. A standard Motad will allow filter removal without removing exhaust
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My question is, will you make Yoshi style pipes again?
I'm not too fussed about mid range loss.
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i get the feeling the answer is no,
i say give the people what they want not quote hp losses
pete
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My question is, will you make Yoshi style pipes again?
I'm not too fussed about mid range loss.
sorry but no- we made them under licence for the distributor anyway- I know its boring (!) but just not happy with putting out a product that doesn't work even if it looks pretty!
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Thats fair enough ian, what i cant understand is i had a harris exhaust on my gpz550, this was short and stumpy, and according to any tuner was no good for power, and yet my butt dyno told me different, the bike went like stink with it fitted
and it sounded and looked awsome
pete
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it sounded and looked awsome
Engineering vs Psychology Pete
I had a 750F2 with a Marshall Deeptone and it sounded a lot faster than it was (it had a white frame as well...)
Steve
:)
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the pipe that performs the worst often feels the fastest
proper design with smooth power curve feels nothing special
the short systems based on styling more than power feel fast as the power comes in after the huge loss mid range
I remember us dynoing a cb900f based "special endurance race bike" years ago- it was 15 % down against the standard bike but the rider thought it was the fastest thing in the world because of the lumpy power curve