Post by: mo goldie on November 22, 2023, 06:21:37 PM
Well Just got one of the electronic Ign from the guy`s at Common Motors, i fitted it yesterday all fine till I come to try and Time it in, there are two lights one Blue ( left ) and a ( Green ) Right, on compression stroke and when you come round to the LF and LT marks the blue light is meant to go out when it hit the LF Mark, well it go`s way passed that mark by about 15 mm or more..... yes I have turned the cam plate to advance the timing but it still wont go anywhere near that LF mark.... do anyone know what could be wrong I have Noticed that on the rotor where the marks are that it is stamped CB450 K5 .......... i don`t know what the 1967 CB450 K0 rotor is meant to show on it .....as this is all New to me .... so just wondered if someone has fitted this rotor from a later Model if that is Possible and the marks are in a different place.... but asking you guys as you will know a lot more than I do.
Thanks in advance
MO
Post by: mo goldie on November 24, 2023, 11:23:33 PM
so went through all my wiring to make sure I had done it right and I had ......... so why No spark ?
all seems to be right :(
as they say always something ha .............anyone got any Ideas ......about it all ? other than it might be the electronic Ign as i have emailed them ( Common Motors.com ) to say but ha ho its there Thanks given ............wondered why I got No reply ha ;D
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 25, 2023, 07:51:19 AM
No real idea on the electronic ignition as I have never fitted one to a twin. For the relatively low miles these bikes do these days a lot of people just stick with points. However, not sure if you are going to do loads of miles on it.
Post by: mo goldie on November 25, 2023, 10:37:57 PM
Cheers Mo
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 26, 2023, 08:27:04 AM
are Ok Thanks Ash well at least that clears somethings up so it is ok then........... but as I say the timing marks don`t line up when you get the piston to TDC so makes me wonder what's going on with that, I have sent Roy a PM two days ago but Not had a reply yet....... so hope he can shed some light on the subject ?
Cheers Mo
I have a later 5-Speed rotor and an original K0 one to compare Mo but can't get to them until Tuesday to compare.
Count it as a plus point that somebody has fitted a rotor with the later starter clutch as the original K0 version was very problematic and often wrecked the alternator stator coil when it failed catastrophically. Plus a newer rotor may have have more magnetism left in it. A lot of original K0 rotors have weak magnets now. Even a 5-speed rotor in decent nick is a £150-£200 asking price part. Roy and myself got ours from DK.
Post by: royhall on November 26, 2023, 12:34:04 PM
[attachimg=1]
I used a "Charlies Place" electronic ignition, and to get the timing correct it was right at the end of it's adjustment. I never did get to the bottom of why that was as it ran well in that position. But there really was no adjustment left. Just a thought, is it possible to get back to the points setup and see if all is okay, or was it already running on points before you decided to fit the electronic. As I said, you didn't mention the bikes history before you attempted to fi the new unit.
[attachimg=2]
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 26, 2023, 01:08:37 PM
Could be different design of rotors - how do they compare to the original points base plate locations?
Post by: royhall on November 26, 2023, 01:23:25 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 26, 2023, 01:45:37 PM
Yes I noticed that. I think it's just a different decision on how to best fit everything. Sensor position doesn't matter as long as the rotor is keyed correctly to accommodate that position. My biggest problem was getting both cylinders timed, as you can see the sensors at actually touching and there was no movement left. I had to half the difference and his left it very slightly out but it still runs well.
Oddly enough it took me ages to get the timing marks correctly aligned for 1/4 and 2/3 on my 400 - it was fitted with the Dyna system.
Even though the individual sensors are slotted for adjustment getting it right between the baseplate & the individual sensors took me ages.
It was easy to get 1/4 right but 3/4 would run out of adjustment so then had to move the baseplate a bit, re adjust 1/4 then check 2/3 and repeat as nipping down the baseplate would change the settings slightly.
Definitely worth my effort as the engine sounded quiter & smoother when I finally got it right.
It actually took me attempts spanning several days as I would leave it saying thats close enough only to go back to make minor changes.
Post by: royhall on November 26, 2023, 02:02:16 PM
Post by: Bryanj on November 26, 2023, 02:41:11 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on November 26, 2023, 04:11:30 PM
Then mark a F mark at static on the rotor to give (std setting, 14 btdc ? ) to be able to examine the trigger positions reference to this.
At least you'll see what you've got initially to then make decisions about what's wrong.
Post by: mo goldie on November 26, 2023, 06:41:52 PM
Ash if you can look tues will be good thanks,
Hi Roy yours I see the adjustment is what I had a problem with as I see on your picture that the base plate run out when it hit the washer on the Exhaust adjuster which is where mine hit, but even then the timing mark was way past the LF mark.
I also see your pick ups seem to be all in one so do they go from the two triggers right to the coils ? as Mine have two pickp ups and then go to two Modules which mount behind the Ign switch with two light on one Blue for left cylinder and one Green for the right Cylinder you are meant to time them up where the blue on the comp stroke just go`s off when it hit the LF mark as i say it go`s off but well after the TDC mark By about 1/4" .... but one all saying that don't understand why I can get a spark at the plugs......... they did want me to Buy a set of coils two but Mine by the looks of them are not that old, Idid go check today on the resistance and they both near the same as each other Pri left was 0.41 sec was 11.27 right coil was Pri 0.40 and Sec 11.66 .... but as I sat they were both running the engine when I went and picked it up..... the guy`s at Common Motors also wanted me to buy there Coils, but at anther $120 I gave them a miss..... but they say that their units will work on standard coils fitted but need to be a resistance of 5.0 so do you think this to be true ?
Hi K2
Yes I used a dial gauge and got top TDC and indeed it is past the LF by about 1/4" or so and I have put a marker pen make where TDC is..... still strange that I am Not getting a spark........ yes it was running on points before I put the E/I on and I No Nothing on how the engine was put together.
also one more thing if you look at my picture of the base plate you will see the dot on the cam is at the top should that be on the first blue pick up when its on ..or as mine is pasted the LF .... LT as mine it at the top when it near them.... so I tried to turn the advance unit round 180 to see if that made any differance but it did Not .... stummed :-X
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 26, 2023, 07:47:53 PM
Post by: royhall on November 26, 2023, 08:15:18 PM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 26, 2023, 08:40:12 PM
At the start of your thread you mention a blue light for left & green light for right in your photo it looks like a green wire going to the left side sensor or am I colour blind?
Post by: mo goldie on November 26, 2023, 09:09:46 PM
Yes roy i did email them 3 days ago but someone told me they are on a thanksgiving hols so might be why I have Not had anything back from them yet so hope they will get back soon.
and yes as long as I can get a spark at least yes I should be able to get it to run and do what you say with the timing light.
if you look at the picture you can just see the blue wire is indeed just visible on the left side and the that is the green coming out of the right side.
Oh just got some so Ha ho More Money but mrs said go for it ..... Oh she a keeper ha lol
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203341447581
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 26, 2023, 09:46:20 PM
well I said that they are around the 0.40 mark so hope they are ok Ash. oh I can get a set at £35 if they are No good off Ebay but do I take a chance ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203341447581
Not easy to measure the primary coil resistance without a decent multimeter capable of measuring very low resistance Mo. Make sure you are on 100 Ohms range when measuring !
Be very wary of aftermarket coils .. some have very low primary resistance .. ideally you need 5 ish Ohm coils.
Post by: mo goldie on November 26, 2023, 10:10:27 PM
I have a fluke meter that measure auto ....... I think any suggestions on where to get good coils from ?
Post by: mo goldie on November 26, 2023, 11:55:16 PM
my first job will be to check them out to see what they read......if Not good they do take returns so that's good........ but like you say 5.0 is better that's what them at Common Motors say to use.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on November 26, 2023, 11:57:12 PM
oh when they get here.... Ash
my first job will be to check them out to see what they read......if Not good they do take returns so that's good........ but like you say 5.0 is better that's what them at Common Motors say to use.
It depends ... ignitions with capacitive discharge CDi use coils that are typically less than 2 OHms ... really depends on the type of electronic ignition,
Post by: mo goldie on November 27, 2023, 12:01:29 AM
Post by: K2-K6 on November 27, 2023, 08:34:15 AM
Ordinarily you'd have power to unit switched by ignition, earth competency to allow the coils to switch, trigger wire to sensors to control that switching (to earth) that goes to unit to toggle switching in time with cam etc. Power to coils and their earth routed to the unit to be switched up and down by the circuit control within that.
Is there wiring diagram with unit ?
Post by: mo goldie on November 27, 2023, 01:59:50 PM
here is a link to the insulation of the shockwave and a video too.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AEyHVfdNqkb4jftnu1B-2Vgs2qu_yUCR/view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZT8GzZiMDY
all what they have said is what I have done...and double checked tripled checked too. ;D
Cheers
Mo
Post by: royhall on November 27, 2023, 03:13:28 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on November 27, 2023, 03:35:56 PM
Seems quite simple to fit Mo. Have you got the leds to show there's power and switching going on ?
Post by: mo goldie on November 27, 2023, 06:12:38 PM
yes checked all the earths are good and yes I have the led`s light up and when I try to go to time them as I said they do go out but Not at the LF mark they go way pasted it....... that's where I said to Roy about the timing marks. I have done a TDC with a Dial Gauge and marked the rotor so I Know where that is Now..... but still NO spark ?
Post by: royhall on November 27, 2023, 06:34:02 PM
Post by: mo goldie on November 27, 2023, 06:42:55 PM
as I say all wired up right just No spark ..... i did have hair LOL going like Yul Brynner Now.
Oh yes condensers have been taken off yes
Post by: K2-K6 on November 27, 2023, 07:29:26 PM
The units (same as points) are only switching the earth wire to the coil to make that spark. If the led is changing it should be doing that switch at least. It would still spark wherever the timing is set.
You can, with power to the coils, get them to spark by disconnecting THEIR earth from the ignition pack, then hold it against an earth scource, when you pull it off the earth they should produce a spark like that.
Post by: royhall on November 27, 2023, 08:51:28 PM
Looks from their website that no rotor is supplied in the kit. Another thought, is the battery fully charged and the rectifier working okay. They have those horrible selenium rectifiers that tend to fail.
Also, according to the website you have no warranty unless you fit their regulator/rectifier.
Post by: K2-K6 on November 27, 2023, 10:20:38 PM
With the leds changing status it would appear to be switching the circuit as required as they just indicate status visually to help setup.
Post by: royhall on November 27, 2023, 10:24:21 PM
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Post by: K2-K6 on November 27, 2023, 10:37:43 PM
Interestingly they can only be fitted in one direction (there's an arrow on the face, facing the cam lobe) and he says they won't work backwards.
Post by: mo goldie on November 27, 2023, 11:17:43 PM
they still Not got back to me yet :(
will put some pictures on later to just show a bit more I hope.
Oh ..wish I had got the one you got Roy seems a lot better as No extra modules just the ones on the plate ha.
Post by: mo goldie on November 27, 2023, 11:53:18 PM
Yes it is the standard Auto Advance used and i stripped that just like they say cleaned it and use white Grease to lube too.
Post by: royhall on November 28, 2023, 06:43:34 AM
Are you sure your electrical system on the bike is up to scratch as these systems are really sensitive to fluctuations in voltage. The standard bomber doesn't even have a regulator fitted and a 55 year old selenium rectifier and single phase alternator. This is why Common Motors insist that you fit their combined reg/rec. Sorry to say but this is beginning to look like another faulty electrical system, and not the ignition unit. Probably best contacting the supplier again for advice. I fitted a regulator from a later model and a modern solid state rectifier, along with a new Motobatt AGM battery, and a new wiring harness. I also have a NOS alternator rotor fitted as old ones can loose magnetism and directly affect charging. In other words I went through the entire system to get things to work correctly.
When your trying for a spark are you using the electric starter or the kickstart. The reason I asked about the battery being fully charged is that the system won't work correctly if the voltage drops. Using the electric starter will possibly drop the charge too low for the system to fire the coils?
I think we're all scrambling for ideas as trouble shooting electrical problems from afar is difficult.
Post by: royhall on November 28, 2023, 07:28:43 AM
Guessing at "Hall effect" from proximity of ferrous presence of cam peak.Hall effect isn't going to work that well without magnets fitted surely. Just triggering off the proximity of the cam lobe is a bit hit and miss isn't it.
Interestingly they can only be fitted in one direction (there's an arrow on the face, facing the cam lobe) and he says they won't work backwards.
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Post by: K2-K6 on November 28, 2023, 08:09:44 AM
They do seem to be switching though, evidenced by the led flip flopping, so signal is there to be amplified and trip the solid state earth modulation.
Maybe check the circuit to earth (on the coil earth routes out of the boxes) to see if that is switching, then meaning there's problem on coil side of system.
Post by: royhall on November 28, 2023, 08:26:33 AM
Mo. Any chance of a couple of photos under the seat.
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Post by: K2-K6 on November 28, 2023, 08:45:20 AM
Usually (although that's making a assumption :) ) the voltage control is looking at too high a voltage that may risk damage to the new boxes. The lower threshold seems to be one of the advantage with current state electronics,, in that they work really well even at lower than ideal voltage because of component efficiency.
Interesting to hear what the supplier may contribute to this.
If the earth to coils is switching though, thats all it has to do to get coil spark from that side of things.
Post by: mo goldie on November 28, 2023, 08:57:37 AM
Post by: royhall on November 28, 2023, 09:39:12 AM
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Post by: mo goldie on November 28, 2023, 10:24:59 AM
Here are the pictures you can see by one pic there is the lights all on and they do go off when you turn the engine over, I have tried what you said too about kicking it over but still the same... also the battery is an AGM battery and very strong one :(
can I ask a silly maybe question but if I put 12V right to the coils will that make them fire the spark plugs ?
Post by: K2-K6 on November 28, 2023, 10:35:17 AM
You can fire a coil by, establishing a + supply to it first, this enables it to collect power but only when you have the earth connected too.
All conventional coils are like this......then disconnecting the earth (points opening in old money ) will cause the stored energy to exit via the HT lead to give you spark.
Don't back connect anything to coils with them in system to avoid risk. Just bare coils with constant + then touch the earth to fill, remove to spark.
Post by: mo goldie on November 28, 2023, 10:43:39 AM
Yes I will try that but I also have a new set of coils coming as I thought it was them like I told Ashley and I said I will do an Ohm`s check on them first to see what they are on the Pri and secondary before I try to use them.. that's if i nee them that is :-\
Post by: royhall on November 28, 2023, 11:23:53 AM
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Post by: mo goldie on November 29, 2023, 07:36:14 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on November 29, 2023, 08:12:25 PM
Post by: sye on November 29, 2023, 08:49:50 PM
http://www.boyerbransden.com/
Post by: royhall on November 29, 2023, 09:44:51 PM
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Post by: K2-K6 on November 30, 2023, 10:29:33 AM
Hi all well the coils turned up today and fitted one on and yes ..... NO SPARK so i think it is the unit itself, have emailed them again but as always just have to wait...... but if they say send it back it my postage and that's was $200 for the Unit $29 postage From USA then £41.69 Import Tax ...... wow getting to get a bit silly ha.......... why is there No where over here that do a really good Electronic Ign Kit ? well Not that I have heard of anyway unless I am missing something ha...... or of Course You Guy`s.
To check the switching, route from battery + through a light bulb, then to the ignition pack wire to coil negative (disconnected from coil) this is just an earth route switched on and off by the module. The bulb should flash when you turn it over like this. Without this earth line toggling the coil won't fire.
Post by: mo goldie on November 30, 2023, 10:38:41 PM
still got no come back from over there yet just sent anther email...... don`t know where I stand with it if I send it back as they say it must be in unused condition well you have to put it on to try it ha .... oh that's what it say on there web site anyway ?
good idea about that that's to try K2 might have to give that a go soon too ha
Post by: mo goldie on November 30, 2023, 11:58:55 PM
Did you get to compare the rotors ?
Oh just found the rear Tail light has cracked so need to find a good one of them now
:-X
Post by: mo goldie on December 01, 2023, 11:18:30 PM
Well still Nothing from them over there yet, and more Emails sent :(
Keep going like this I will just take it all off and go back to points ha :( so much in trying to get things better.
Post by: royhall on December 02, 2023, 07:35:50 AM
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Post by: mo goldie on December 02, 2023, 10:37:56 PM
as they asked me to try a few things which was to strip the wires back a bit and make sure they have got connection which I had done before anyway but ha ho give it a try again ha ( did Not make any thing new ) and asked if the Led light`s were going on and off when you rotate the engine which they do so rule out the sensors Then, so when i told them they said they can sort something out under warranty .. Yahoo ............ getting somewhere............ so have to wait for them to get back and see if they going to send out some new modules if so up to 3 weeks I bet ha but as its cold and the bike wont be going out till spring No rush :(
Oh i will try that out Roy about the points too and I have Not had to butcher the wiring as them just tap into the wire still Not good tho ........ but when its all ( I Hope Up and running ) I will change out the connection's for ones like the block connectors and do a proper job ha.
Post by: Bryanj on December 02, 2023, 11:41:49 PM
Post by: mo goldie on December 03, 2023, 05:05:38 PM
can someone have a look at the pictures and tell me what go`s with what wires and what needs to be linked please.
I will start off with the coil wires there is on the left coil one black/white and one blue. right coil one Black/white and one yellow so where do they go to...... keep it simple please LOL :'( then there is the condensers a yellow and Blue now where do they go ?. then you have the two wires from the points one yellow I think left point and the blue the right point so where do they get linked too ?
I want to prove that all ok with the points so when the Common Motor`s get back i can say it works ok with points well I hope ha .
as I say keep it simple as Not up much on this..... should have took a picture of that before I tried to instal the Electronic ign ...Hind sight ha, but you think it was going to be a fit and forget ...well I did anyway ;D
cheers Mo
Post by: royhall on December 03, 2023, 05:08:22 PM
Not a good picture but you can just see the condenser on top with its two screw bracket. Looks like it's already fitted to yours. Are they the new coils?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231203/da7d574a61e30a29cabab48d6508cf2f.jpg)
Post by: K2-K6 on December 03, 2023, 05:35:07 PM
Blue and yellow are the earth route that go straight to the points for triggering.
Condenser "taps" into each of the blue and yellow wire (one for each coil) anywhere convenient to connect them, depending on wherever the connection are located. The four cylinder bikes have them right next to points for example, as the twins often located up near the coils.
Post by: royhall on December 03, 2023, 05:39:00 PM
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Post by: mo goldie on December 03, 2023, 06:37:36 PM
as I thought the black and white were earths so when i connected the E/I up i put them to earth and the blue and yellows to the live on the Modules .........if that is he case then I was just NOT getting power to the coils would you say that is right ?
so it might be that the E/I is ok after all ?
oh something else to try out first ha ;D
what a numpty if that is the case :o
oh there is No blue/yellow coming out of my wiring harness Roy just the black and green that power the horn which the coils get there power from...... but I did think the two black and whites were Earth ......oh well you will Now tell me if that is right ha lol.
yes Roy they are new coils ..well new to me they were on the bike when I got it.....if they are ok I have just got a new pair as well now :)
Post by: Bryanj on December 03, 2023, 07:46:07 PM
Either condenser blue and yellow OR coil blue and yellow have a double connector and the coils, wire from points and wire from condensers connect colour to colour at that point.
Just for info the points plate assembly on a gl1000 is the same as 450 twin and 500 twin, not sure about condensers
Post by: K2-K6 on December 03, 2023, 08:02:30 PM
Are ok guy`s well here are where things might have gone wrong then......
as I thought the black and white were earths so when i connected the E/I up i put them to earth and the blue and yellows to the live on the Modules .........if that is he case then I was just NOT getting power to the coils would you say that is right ?
so it might be that the E/I is ok after all ?
oh something else to try out first ha ;D
what a numpty if that is the case :o
oh there is No blue/yellow coming out of my wiring harness Roy just the black and green that power the horn which the coils get there power from...... but I did think the two black and whites were Earth ......oh well you will Now tell me if that is right ha lol.
yes Roy they are new coils ..well new to me they were on the bike when I got it.....if they are ok I have just got a new pair as well now :)
Possible then that you've reversed polarity within the E I that may not allow switching of coil load to take place. The triggers are directional, so it may be such that it's not working because of this swap.
Worthwhile setting them now with this info to see if they chime in.
Post by: mo goldie on December 03, 2023, 08:31:41 PM
Post by: royhall on December 03, 2023, 09:12:45 PM
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Post by: mo goldie on December 03, 2023, 10:08:44 PM
I will try putting the E/I back on with the wires B/w in the right place just hope I have Not damaged there Modules putting it the wrong way round,
if that is the case that I got it wrong I am glad I am Not the only one done that Roy, just hope as I say I can come back on here and say to everyone its all working....... will Try that out very soon,
Oh sorry Bryan but they don`t have a kill switch on a black Bomber ;D
Post by: Bryanj on December 03, 2023, 10:27:12 PM
Post by: mo goldie on December 03, 2023, 11:51:02 PM
Knowledge ha as I said will give it a go and see if its works Now..... Now off to bed now i need a lay down LOL ;D
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AEyHVfdNqkb4jftnu1B-2Vgs2qu_yUCR/view
Post by: royhall on December 04, 2023, 06:04:11 AM
Never had one so didnt know that, Roy you obviosly not worked on citroen 2CV or Ami 8 ALL the wires are Yellow with letter/number tags on the end, really good after 5 english winters!The French never did get wiring right including some very modern stuff. They probably got a cheap price on a huge drum of yellow wire.
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Post by: royhall on December 04, 2023, 06:13:45 AM
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Post by: mo goldie on December 04, 2023, 11:53:54 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 04, 2023, 12:15:02 PM
If it runs then you know the coils & wiring are all working as it should.
In the meantime get the supplier of the Electronic ignition to either refund or replace.
"Nilus Carborundum Bastidio"
Post by: royhall on December 04, 2023, 12:19:30 PM
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Post by: mo goldie on December 04, 2023, 12:50:51 PM
Oh then will have to look at the timing rotor.... always something as they say ...but will get there as got time it's winter and dam cold ..so all bikes tucked away.... 😆
Post by: mo goldie on December 04, 2023, 09:39:40 PM
yp all running the carbs need setting as I did take them all apart and ultrasonic them and the Timing will need to be set too, it is near Roy but like you said on yours it go`s all the way to the end of travel up against the Exhaust cam washer.
so Cam plate is on full Addvance but it sounds good so with some fettling should be all ok,
Did Not hear back from Ashley about the Rotor`s if they are different or Not but it would Not surprise me if they are,
so I have marked the rotor up using a Dial Gauge for top dead centre so if I measure the gap from LF mark and TDC and the mark I have done where TDC is I should be able to to a strobe light on it to get that right do you think ?
Post by: K2-K6 on December 04, 2023, 09:52:37 PM
Yes to timing, as long as you can get a confident degree position against crankcase reference, then strobe it on that to assess.
Post by: mo goldie on December 04, 2023, 10:39:23 PM
got a bit of a leak on the right carb soon fix that but getting them both dialed in and and then I hope will be all good,
is there any way to check if the Rectifier is working as need to check if charging is ok ?
cheers Mo
Post by: Bryanj on December 04, 2023, 10:58:12 PM
Post by: mo goldie on December 04, 2023, 11:19:02 PM
I just fitted one of the Digital ones so wanted to check that it is doing its job right as that is one of the conditions of the warrantee for the E/I .
so first put a meter across the batt see what's going in .... as My battery went a bit flat after using the E/starter for all them times ...so on charge Now.
also still got to sort out a rear light lens as the one I got all cracked too.
Post by: Bryanj on December 04, 2023, 11:44:04 PM
Post by: mo goldie on December 05, 2023, 12:32:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjTnFcrb3Dg
Post by: royhall on December 05, 2023, 05:35:25 AM
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Post by: royhall on December 05, 2023, 02:21:14 PM
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Post by: mo goldie on December 05, 2023, 06:35:25 PM
Well Roy first my fluke don`t have 20amp its got a 10 amp any good ?
Yes also right about putting a meter across just the battery as it did not move well went down.
the wiring fault if you look back was that the white/Black needed the + 12volt as I thought it was an earth, till as you pointed out that Honda done some strange things on wire colors lol.
if i need to get another alternator are they hard to get or is there someone who rewinds them as might need one ?
just asking asking as the one on there don't look that good to start with as the windings look to be flapping around well some of them do anyway,
Post by: Bryanj on December 05, 2023, 09:09:24 PM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 05, 2023, 09:46:16 PM
Windings are fairly robust, charging problem are usually bad wire or wron connections
Bomber ones often fooked Bryan .. particularly when damaged when the starter clutch fails (which must have happened on Mo's bike) .. plus they are cloth wound not epoxy coated, The later 5-speed fits OK and is epoxy dipped like later 1970's Hondas.
Post by: Bryanj on December 05, 2023, 11:13:28 PM
Post by: mo goldie on December 05, 2023, 11:46:09 PM
Hi Ashley
did you get tro look at the rotor`s ?
i got my timing near as you can get it right so rotro must be ok ...........running a bit like a pig tho....... carbs need setting up
I think.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 06, 2023, 07:54:44 AM
I just wish I could get one ha LOL.
Hi Ashley
did you get tro look at the rotor`s ?
i got my timing near as you can get it right so rotro must be ok ...........running a bit like a pig tho....... carbs need setting up
I think.
I will try and get a look later today/tomorrow Mo
Post by: mo goldie on December 06, 2023, 11:45:33 PM
oh did you say a K5 stator will fit a 67` Bomber........... as if so i can`t find one of them either ?
and don`t know anyone who can rewind the one I got too, I did try them at Rex speed shop but they just want an arm and and two leg`s to do it.
Oh........ just found these two are they any good and will fit if so which one ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353131879713?fits=UKM_Make%3AHonda&hash=item52384cdd21:g:~DAAAOSwAuVgQ2C3&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4J9LarBPrKn5PgtTW7Cb1mlD8bFC4qrUygC12SAr7gYJPpAvYbkJmCJla2Vs3yMfGzJUTbkhPs0aGacWW34IFg9vAzGM%2BTBpZGE0jCpG3LXVK5sHNFkTICfuQ8xCLcSuHcDY8a2RN3JgnwCtLE9YdIIJE%2B2s18HTP42gn3An3D6GEfroOUz5xzdkF2zeDuAtTdpdNHfSHYZZahcXe2yDbhNXiMEtmrRXBgvgOP4VZFYGCy%2B7hv4kkQzdeVP02hLSGWLLk%2FEFvOu9hlhsz59wDAGowULTEEmh0l8%2BnZStM0Xb%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6DMw5iIYw
this one say for 350 tho ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155928967504?fits=UKM_Make%3AHonda&_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D257779%26meid%3D5bb55f7c85e84ada93345a3e86c6abb1%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D353131879713%26itm%3D155928967504%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D4429486%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithLambda85KnnRecallV1V2V4ItemNrtInQueryAndCassiniVisualRankerAndBertRecallWithVMEV3CPCEmbeddingSearchQAuto%26brand%3DHonda&_trksid=p4429486.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A1559289675045bb55f7c85e84ada93345a3e86c6abb1%7Cenc%3AAQAIAAABgMF6rapl24zPGkjYHfiSlLTuBicNRv1Nr6Iohq4bMvd7DlxPac1R4%252FnhV6ZdsOB3e44VPDg3LMjzKh6h9F%252BnyuldWK33VEcBpK6UyRXA9oDADzwEJIB%252BjrUQktYR0EluQdk0jMCISI62ak4peNZttnRbSFGqwdC47qFkTZC5xxTjp9bHcL3qg0RoXvktnjH9RYWvPfYGWmz8kSaBYiRWThKHKMh6He4fdj3dD7OI%252Fp7T87YYof%252FoCNXxlZsaA4xyyvklzam%252BVbdkSnrKw2K7SjXHM4L4E%252BulKCOib9PidmM0EeE6BHFGbB%252F0OIM1aByiYWqSrXAUwV%252BWCp9uXa7x2BDBleZamp8IaoR%252FijUDGxIJ992iFXmbw85I73sYblhSGc2vOH290rStPGxusQtZr%252B6Prts6%252B%252BpG76IJNxLdMUGp9SCnt6mk2TMbo8yko%252BsI2dsNhNsPrEplOGx2oWZ%252B4XnYXCZzUnYkOyj%252BvUmV6bhJ7Pir1dLNM33VAk%252FwD9vrSA%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A4429486
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 07, 2023, 10:13:41 AM
I will look out for one for you. Not got to my rotors yet .. but I will soon
Post by: mo goldie on December 07, 2023, 12:45:08 PM
Cheers Mo
Post by: mo goldie on December 11, 2023, 12:06:33 AM
hope this is the one Ashley ?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 11, 2023, 07:20:30 AM
Yo also need to show me the full loom and connector on the stator .. if it's a 286 part it won't fit . you need 283 or 292 (5-sp)
Post by: mo goldie on December 11, 2023, 09:23:36 AM
I thought I had done good as I asked the bloke is it a K5 450 and he used to race them by the sounds of it....I could not see all the pictures of them as he had two one a bit messy and that one... I did see one had a white plug on the end of its wires ...I did Not know any difference...so you think I might have got it wrong then ? I was going on what the bloke said ::)
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 11, 2023, 10:34:24 AM
Hi Ash
I thought I had done good as I asked the bloke is it a K5 450 and he used to race them by the sounds of it....I could not see all the pictures of them as he had two one a bit messy and that one... I did see one had a white plug on the end of its wires ...I did Not know any difference...so you think I might have got it wrong then ? I was going on what the bloke said ::)
The rotor is deffo wrong Mo .. did you pay a lot for it?
Post by: mo goldie on December 11, 2023, 01:19:25 PM
I payed £90 for the lot including the casings.
I am Not to worried about the rotor as I did say to the bloke but he said he would just put that in as well so I did not Argue lol so will have to see what I get but if you can come up with one be even better ;D
but I hope this one is the one that will be OK will keep you up to date as when I get it. what was Honda thinging about with all the changes :-\
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 11, 2023, 03:47:35 PM
Hi Ash
I payed £90 for the lot including the casings.
I am Not to worried about the rotor as I did say to the bloke but he said he would just put that in as well so I did not Argue lol so will have to see what I get but if you can come up with one be even better ;D
but I hope this one is the one that will be OK will keep you up to date as when I get it. what was Honda thinging about with all the changes :-\
I think the stator is correct as it's in the pic of the 286 rotor and it's wiring loom has the unique -to-the- 450/500T neutral switch attached. That neutral switch was a good design .. far better than the exposed contact ones on the CB250/350K, CB175 and CB500/4 etc
I have never seen a 286 rotor fitted to a 450 but that's not to say it's not possible. Maybe the seller knows more than me and it may fit ... worth a try Mo
Post by: mo goldie on December 11, 2023, 11:12:42 PM
As it looks ok just hope it fits ...Not worried about the rotor as MY CB450 K5 one is good now so hope that will fit right in the middle of that one........oh hope I get the wires all right too when i wire that up to that Rectifier ?
Post by: mo goldie on December 13, 2023, 07:20:27 PM
Well it came today and looks good ? Not sure of the color of the wires and where they will go on the Rectifier as the colours look like one is Green ..one looks white and the other one looks yellow ish the green and the green with red strip is to the Neutral switch ? also the case came with it and I did Not think that would fit a KO as sure the bloke in the USA said they are different but just went and put it on lose to try and it fits... so what you think.
see what you think of the wires please and to where they go,
Cheers
Mo
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 13, 2023, 11:09:01 PM
This is supposed to be the conversion Mo but not sure where green wire comes into it.
Not sure on the cover .. there could be a subtle difference ... you need to check one against the other for same dimensions.
Post by: mo goldie on December 13, 2023, 11:13:21 PM
Yes the Green is normally the earths ha .......... so unsure Now. but if i wire it as white to the pink on the loom so it go though the Rectifier as yellow to the one that looks like an off yellow and the Green to the brown on the loom to the rectifier I wonder if that will be right.
if anyone has a Stator the same as my one and can measure the Oms out put of each wire I wonder if that would tell me anything as I will look tomorrow and do an Oms check on mine and put on the readings what I get from that.
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 14, 2023, 08:12:39 AM
I would keep your original 4-speed cover. I have a nagging memory that there is something subtly different between 4-sp and 5-sp
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 14, 2023, 11:01:52 AM
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Bryanj on December 14, 2023, 03:04:02 PM
Post by: mo goldie on December 14, 2023, 03:56:47 PM
Well that is strange...so that yours has gone the same way as the one I have..just sent my case's off for Vaper blasting then they will be ready for paint. I was going to polish them but thought I would do them silver like my mates and his dad as they have the super Hawk and a CL305 ....also I was going to send that case what come with the stator to be done too as it's not got the same No as the K0 but I fitted it on after I took the stator out and lt fitted lovely so don't know what the difference is and I did fit it with the stator as well and still seems to fit.... so don't know what is difference?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on December 14, 2023, 06:34:57 PM
Doesnt the light switch bring in extra coils like the old Triumphs Ash?
Yes it does Bryan.
Post by: mo goldie on December 15, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
I have cut that round plug off Ash... and put a new block connector on and re done the wires to the rectifier by the thread earlier so all I hope should be OK 👍.
Post by: mo goldie on December 28, 2023, 10:26:20 PM
both cases sprayed and will just have to try both and see how it go`s but thought one of you guy`s would Know ?
as I have had people say that they won`t fit but no one has said to why that is.