Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 04:23:01 PM

Title: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 04:23:01 PM
Hurrah! Finally got the tank finished with decals and lacquer and fitted to the bike this afternoon Filled up with petrol and...BUGGER!
[attach=1]

I used acrylic paint and lacquer - is this a known problem and if so, what type of lacquer is petrol proof?
All advice/tales of similar woe welcome :-)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: sye on May 15, 2020, 04:41:12 PM
It needs to be 2k lacquer and be allowed to dry for at least 2 weeks before allowing petrol anywhere near it.
The stuff we buy from the likes of Halfrauds is not suitable.
You can but 2k in an aerosol if you do a search.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 04:55:38 PM
Thanks Sye, that nips my plan of re-spraying with Halfords 'Petrol Resistant Lacquer' in the bud then.

I've never used 2K paint/lacquer - is one dependent on the other? The tank is in acrylic 1K.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: sye on May 15, 2020, 05:03:32 PM
Don't know the answer to that question but a quick search says you can. I'm sure someone on here knows for sure.
There are paint specialists who will supply you with 2k in a can. Search for one and ask them, they will know.
It's not cheap at around £20 a 400ml can, so be sure.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 05:07:10 PM
Hmmm, I guess only leaving the lacquer for 48 hours (as per the instructions) didn't help either then. Ah well, we learn from our mistakes.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Nurse Julie on May 15, 2020, 05:21:46 PM
Oh, poo, what a shame 😢😢😢😢
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 06:53:22 PM
Yeah, but at least I can finish running it in whilst I gird my loins to strip it down again. Tomorrow will be a better day ;-)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: MrDavo on May 15, 2020, 07:16:36 PM
That's heartbreaking.

Do it yellow, then you can pretend that it was a deliberate choice.  ;)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: billdn on May 15, 2020, 07:30:51 PM
Hope you don't mind if I tag into this thread but I'm also near to the stage of applying lacquer to a rattle can sprayed tank. For my sins I used a Halfords Dark Blue metallic (I just liked the colour!) and suddenly this query crops up, fortuitous or not I can't say. I've found the 2K and the reviews seem positive but the seller is , thank fully , honest enough to admit that he's not sure if it's compatible with the paint already applied. Has anyone tried the two together, I'd hate to apply and get an adverse reaction as it's taken ages to get this far and another set back will find me reaching for the club hammer!
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: TrickyMicky on May 15, 2020, 07:58:15 PM
I think that I probably need an educational update, but in a previous life, (1978-1985), I worked for a company that was the main  distributor for a very well known vehicle paint manufacturer. At that time 2K paint was only sold to trade users who had the correct equipment for its use, which included masks with a separate air supply line as the hardener had some very nasty consistuents, the vehicle was inside a spray booth/oven. When completed, the shine on the finished paintwork gave the impression that it was still wet, it was a VERY hardwearing finish, and it certainly did not need any lacquer.
    Would dearly love to know what has changed, especially with regard to the health aspect of the spray!
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: mike the bike on May 15, 2020, 08:14:31 PM
I bought black 2K in a rattle can for my other bike.   It flies out of the can and soon gets used up, should have bought two.  After applying the decals,  I sprayed 2K lacquer over it. I must say its not that smooth, despite me flattening the previous coat and going over it.  It was really smooth and shiny when I first sprayed it but didn't stay that way when it dried.
It's taking ages to harden off but when it finally does harden, I'll flatten it again.  I'm not over impressed with the results so far, we shall see.
I filled the tank very carefully with a funnel.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: paul G on May 15, 2020, 08:14:50 PM
As above DO NOT use 2K unless you have a positive air feed face mask or you will regret it.
The only way to test if you will get a reaction between the two is to test it on a small patch.
You should have got some overspray on the bottom of the tank somewhere to try it.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 10:56:47 PM
Thanks for the advice Paul. 2K sounds a bit obnoxious.

I have plenty of test area as I painted the underside of the tank as well. Call me old fashioned, but whilst it was off and I had the can in my hand, it didn't occur to me not to  ???

I am minded to write the paint job off anyway, so may well experiment to see if I can sand/cut down the blemishes to the base colour and re-coat with one of the 'Petrol Resistant Lacquers' that are available. That way, I might be able to save the decals which only went on last Monday.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 11:01:54 PM
Hope you don't mind if I tag into this thread but I'm also near to the stage of applying lacquer to a rattle can sprayed tank. For my sins I used a Halfords Dark Blue metallic (I just liked the colour!) and suddenly this query crops up, fortuitous or not I can't say. I've found the 2K and the reviews seem positive but the seller is , thank fully , honest enough to admit that he's not sure if it's compatible with the paint already applied. Has anyone tried the two together, I'd hate to apply and get an adverse reaction as it's taken ages to get this far and another set back will find me reaching for the club hammer!

Yes Bill, mine was done in Halfords Honda Milano Red, which is a pretty good match for the original Light Ruby version.
I'm guessing that I simply rushed it and only gave the lacquer 48 hours to dry. Apparently, it takes much, much longer to harden off, so maybe it would resist petrol a bit better then.
I'll keep this post updated as I try and rescue it over the next week or so.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: taysidedragon on May 15, 2020, 11:32:09 PM
It's worth trying to salvage it. My tank is sprayed with Halfords Honda Milano Red and Petrol Resistant Laquer.
It was at least a week before I put any fuel in it and no problems so far. 👍
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 15, 2020, 11:53:39 PM
It's worth trying to salvage it. My tank is sprayed with Halfords Honda Milano Red and Petrol Resistant Laquer.
It was at least a week before I put any fuel in it and no problems so far. 👍

 :)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: heli_madken on May 17, 2020, 12:21:26 AM
Hi, RS Bike Paints do an  isocyontate free clear coat that isn't nasty to spray and goes on quite nice, takes a couple of weeks to harden but polishes really well - http://www.rsbikepaint.com/en-gb/motorcycle-product-details.php?category=lacquer&productid=lacquer400ml (http://www.rsbikepaint.com/en-gb/motorcycle-product-details.php?category=lacquer&productid=lacquer400ml)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 17, 2020, 02:43:28 PM
Thanks for all the advice and sympathy folks.

Spent today seeing if I can salvage the tank. First stop was 800 grit wet and dry.
[attach=1]

Then 1200...
[attach=2]

Finished off with 1500
[attach=3]

And touched up the red as I had to go a bit deep on the top edge to get it smooth.
[attach=4]

Letting this all dry off and will decide what lacquer to use tomorrow.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: OZZYSBIKES on May 17, 2020, 04:12:25 PM
I recently painted my trials bike tank with non isocyanate 2K aerosol that the supplier (Ebay) claims is as good as proper 2K  I know it's not because my brother was a  car body repairer for 30 years but I have given it a go, the paint and the lacquer were both non isocyanate 2K but after leaving the job 3 days I splashed petrol on it and it marked the lacquer, I managed to polish it back up and I have left it two more weeks, it's definitely a lot harder so hopefully it's going to be petrol resistant now (as the manufacturers claim)
Re paint compatibility, my brother reckoned that proper 2K is compatible with almost any other paint and it is fully petrol proof once hard but you have the isocyanate problem, it can be really nasty stuff causing long term health problems I would only ever paint with it outside with a mask on and for short periods of time  (like a bike)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Andych on May 18, 2020, 05:37:33 AM
Most... if not all 2 Pack these days is Iso Cyanate free due to the OHS rules and regs.
There are plenty of good quality ISO free 2 pack spray cans of clear.. Eastwood paints are generally pretty good.. and their 2 Pack looks to have some really good points over standard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O-Ol2OmZxg
there are a number of rustoleum videos around as well showing their 2 pack clear.

Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 18, 2020, 08:14:37 AM
Most... if not all 2 Pack these days is Iso Cyanate free due to the OHS rules and regs.
There are plenty of good quality ISO free 2 pack spray cans of clear.. Eastwood paints are generally pretty good.. and their 2 Pack looks to have some really good points over standard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O-Ol2OmZxg
there are a number of rustoleum videos around as well showing their 2 pack clear.

I watched the video ... looks good but no mention of isocyanates ... so I looked up data sheet and found this quoted below in description. I have not yet found a 2k in a can clear coat , which  is isocyanate free. Anybody know if this exists?


"Always wear eye, skin and respiratory protection when using this product. Product contains Isocyanates, wear NIOSH approved breathing equipment. Always use in a well ventilated area away from open flame. Consult MSDS for specific safety warnings"
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Andych on May 18, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Hmm I didnt spot that but the times I have used it before were in well ventilated area with a 3M mask and pre-filter plus closes etc... that shit sticks to everything.
Having said that... during my apprenticeship in the Aircraft Industry in the early 70's I spent 6 months using a massive degreasing tank which was hot MEK which had you pretty much high all day... had 2 years with my hands constantly in Acetone, MEK or pretty much any other solvent you can name when in the sheet metal shop and constantly had chromate (we knew it as cocky shit) on my hands... 18 months in the Hawker de Havilland Hydraulic Shop working with all sorts of fluids including Skydrol and up to the armpits in White Spirits when stripping items down and yet I am still here... no adverse effects (some would disagree) but I still err on the cautious side and use PPE these days.

The rustoleum one says it is Iso free.
https://www.rustoleum.com.au/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumAU/TDS/English/Hi%20Chem%20TDS/2-Pack-ISO-Free-Clear.ashx?la=en-AU
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: sye on May 18, 2020, 08:48:16 AM
Ash, this company do isocyanate free 2k paint and will supply it in aerosol too. Bloody expensive though, they charge £10 delivery for one can.
https://www.jawel.co.uk/
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Bryanj on May 18, 2020, 09:12:12 AM
Thats cos they aint allowed to post it due to the aerosol propellent, usually butane since cfc's were banned
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: MrDavo on May 18, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
The 3M mask I bought online to use to strip the unwanted paint out of my CB750 cases, using MEK, I now use for shopping at Aldi!

@ Andych, In an old book I have a picture taken in Swindon Loco works in the 1930s. A huge boiler is hanging from above on chains, as men spray it with blue asbestos, wearing full health and safety gear of flat hats and hobnail boots! I bet they didn't live to a ripe old age. Now when I take a broken abestos garage roof tile down the tip to sling it they have a hizzy fit at me, and threaten to seal off the area until they can don space suits.
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Bryanj on May 18, 2020, 01:03:49 PM
Yep and that's the "safe" stuff, Hate to think what I breathed in working on the Babcock boilers in the Merchant Navy!
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 18, 2020, 01:19:16 PM
I went to a talk about the timber docks area  of East Hull and saw  old photos  of men in the 1930's in a storage room of asbestos on the docks larking about and making asbestos 'snowballs' and throwing at each other. Different times !
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: AshimotoK0 on May 18, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Ash, this company do isocyanate free 2k paint and will supply it in aerosol too. Bloody expensive though, they charge £10 delivery for one can.
https://www.jawel.co.uk/

I can find this from Jawal which is isocyanate free but not in an aerosol 2K. The 2K they sell in aerosol is isocyanate cured

https://www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=177_180
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: paul G on May 18, 2020, 02:56:26 PM
Can you all remember at school when you broke a thermometer and used to flick the Mercury around  ;D ;D
They would shut the school down now and do a deep clean  ;)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Andych on May 18, 2020, 11:56:08 PM
Hard to do that with a Digital Thermometer... although people have a hissy fit if you point the laser dot at them.. so probably similar sort of antics lol
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 19, 2020, 03:28:38 PM
Well, I'm quite pleased with the salvage operation.

Coat of the same 1K lacquer to even out the surface and leaving it at least 2 weeks before trying anything else.
[attach=1]

I've got a spray can of 2K on order and will meanwhile make up a test piece of steel sheet to match whats on the tank. If the 2K covers that OK without issue, then the tank gets it!

But more importantly, at last every thing is on the bike and looking as I want it.
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: SPR on May 19, 2020, 04:37:22 PM
Looks great - well done :)
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: Andych on May 19, 2020, 11:46:21 PM
Wait a while before you attempt to put the 2 pack over your test piece...the biggest issue putting 2 pack over Acrylic is that if done too soon you get what they call fry-up which is basically a chemical reaction due to the solvents still flashing out of the Acrylic being trapped under the 2K.
The differences are the Acrylic relies on the solvent flashing off to allow the paint to harden.. the 2K has the hardener to create a chemical reaction to harden the paint.
It is why they suggest leaving Acrylic a few weeks to harden before buffing as the paint will be too soft. 2 K you can buff it out the following day.
They also recommend a light scuff of the surface you will be putting the 2K onto.. so just a fine scotchbrite pad and see how you go..
Title: Re: Lacquer?
Post by: DaveN on May 20, 2020, 09:50:08 AM
Cheers Andych, I was planning to leave the tank for two weeks but I may make it three now :)

Thanks to everybody who has advised - I really appreciate it  ;D
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