Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: MikeM on March 13, 2014, 06:53:49 PM
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how would i go about sorting this, sheared off and bolt is just below being flush ( 1mm ish under being level )
not a big bolt length wise 10mm, I would say 8-9mm in the fork, need some advice to fix
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Spark Erosion if you can't drill out.
Cheers ... AshD
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It will drill out with a small enough bit.
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Hi,
whatever you do strip the unit first, wouldn't be the first time I have had a broken screw turn itself right in when being drilled, the heat from drilling coupled with the turning action of the drillbit---ken
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strip down the fork do you mean, ie get the seals out
does that mean I have to take off virtually front of bike to fix this ?
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Try a left handed drill bit if you can find one.
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cant get my head round this why use a left hand drill bit
ken are you saying if I drill it will purely tighten the bolt and possibly ruin the case of fork?
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A left handed drill bit will try to unscrew the bolt while you drill, obviously you will need to use a reversable drill as well.
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my drill is cheap n cheerful, one way only, I do know the bolt is not seized
pic
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0253_zpsc6c5743e.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0253_zpsc6c5743e.jpg.html)
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Put a fine drill down it and screw in a self tapper.
Or tap it around with a fine punch.
Hit it with an impact driver with a slotted bit on it.
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http://www.screwfix.com/p/trend-pro-grabit-screw-and-bolt-remover-2-pieces/21391
Try this
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Mike... a huge pain in the arse but I'd be going with Norniron. £15.... versus the pain of stripping... or worse knackering the fork. And you'll have a tool that you can reuse. (these bits are brittle tho'... and can snap, take care)
Any they too need a left hand twist... as mentioned, to avoid screwing the damaged bolt in further.
You say the bolt is not seized.. and for this reason I personally would stay away from any RH (conventional) drilling which would twist it in further...
Whilst you're waiting for delivery soak the thread with a penetrating spray, WD40 etc etc.
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Hi,
I recommended to strip the forks for three reasons, the "drain" may be tapped all the way through the fork leg, it is far easier to drill verically down and be accurate as opposed to trying to drill horizontally, also, any contamination can be clean out easily. No need to completely strip, just remove the wheel and offending fork leg---ken
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... ah, understand now Ken, thought you previously meant to literally strip the fork to component parts. "Remove" the single fork!!
Yup, so much easier, esp if you have a drill press.
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I might try the left handed drill bit first and not go all the way through, it might pull it out as i am drilling ?
if not i wil take it part again
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well i tried the left hand drill went in so far and promptly snapped came out a touch, 1 thread now showing .......
so try 2 is next with the other tool now....... :-\ on order
so bike on hold
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...progress then Mike! At least is come out a bit versus gone deeper. If you've a small Dremel any chance of cutting a slot in the exposed bolt - enough for a screw driver to get purchase on? Whatever...don't rush the job.
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Drill a small hole in it an hammer an old torx bit into the hole,plenty of easing oil.
And remove slowly,
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its starting to break up so I stopped awaiting this tool to turn up that was recommended
I will get it out
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a review of the screwfix grabbit from screwfix website, dunno how acurate it is but does suggest its not ideal for your application: "First, I don't doubt this is a good product for removing screws with damaged heads, etc. It will probably also remove damaged bolts that are not too well stuck. However, my need was to remove a M8 bolt where the head had sheared off and this product was no use for that.
The grabit's instructions show it being used to remove a bolt where the head has sheared off, but as soon as you start to use the product it is clear that it is not designed for that. I rang up their technical support and they said it is not designed for where the head has sheared right off, even though this is exactly what is shown in the picture in the instructions!
They suggested I drilled in to the bolt and use the grabit in the drilled hole. I did that, applied a medium amount of pressure and the end of the grabit sheared off.
It is clearly not made for removing bolts where the head has sheared off. The instructions they give just won't work on such a bolt and the product is not strong enough for this because any bolt stuck enough for its head to shear off is going to need some force to shift it and the grabit won't stand anything near that force.
The grabit is probably very good for removing screws in wood and plaster around the house, but don't make the mistake of thinking this is an engineering product for removing bolts stuck in metal. I think this product is being mis-sold and Screwfix might want to take that up with the manufacturer."
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Hi,
The fact it has moved gives hope, if the drilled hole is deep enough, an old engineering trick is to gently tap in a suitably sized file tang and ease it out, but beware with any tapped in extractor not to swell the the screw and make it tighter! Ken
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i saw that review, but there others saying it worked for them ... so i guess try it and see :-\
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They suggested I drilled in to the bolt and use the grabit in the drilled hole. I did that, applied a medium amount of pressure and the end of the grabit sheared off.
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...which is what can easily happen and leaves you in a worse place than when you started. They seem awfully brittle things.
I have had more success with careful drilling successively larger sizes.
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the only thing with going bigger is left hand drill bits are not cheap
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If i knacker this can i put inserts into aluminium ?
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if this new tool does not work , how do inserts work then , these are 6mm by 10mm bolts
what size insert would i have to order
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Hi,
The inserts are basically a diamond section coil, the "hole" needs to be drilled to the correct size and tapped out with a "dedicated" tap, and the insert then screwed in with a mandril, you end up with the thread back to its original size, you can buy inserts, but are better off starting with an insert kit that contains inserts,drills and mandrils.
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What i am confused about is the depth ?
is this the full kit needed, goes down 8mm, cant seem to find a 10mm version
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-Piece-Helicoil-Thread-Repair-Kit-M6-x-1-0-x-8-0mm-/310678382294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4855dfe6d6#ht_1761wt_952
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also whats the deal with this kit same as above ??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-25-Piece-Pc-Helicoil-Thread-Repair-Recoil-insert-Kit-M6-x-1-0-x-8-0mm-/261311888017?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printing_PrinterInkCatridges_JN&hash=item3cd766fa91#ht_2699wt_1190
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Hi,
You may need to enquie at a tool shop, but if you get desperate mybe we can sort something, try googling for metric helicoil set-------Ken
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Sounds expensive though how come one kit is like a tenner otheris pushing 100 ?
looks same contents ?
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Hi oddjob,
1D-2D etc is the depth ie 1 times Diameter, 2 times Dia. and so on---Ken
I only have standard pitch/depth inserts, but willing to loan for postage costs
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Hi,
Sizing is on thread size 6mm.1D is 6mm dia and 6mm deep, the depth needs to match depth of the hole because it is difficult to remove excess once the thing is fitted, or if the hole has no bottom and you end up with the insert too deep----Ken
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Hi,
They are making the assumption they are selling to engineering trade I suppose---Ken
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cant find a 10 mm deep coil, can you use two? say 5mm each ?
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Hi,
PM me and I will try to help, you need a 6mm helicoil by 1.5 depth if available, but a 6mm standard length should do, as the helicoil is far stronger than the original thread, and it seals under the bolt head, not on the threads---Ken
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This is what i was going to order
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-Piece-Helicoil-Thread-Repair-Kit-M6-x-1-0-x-8-0mm-/310678382294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4855dfe6d6#ht_1761wt_952
m6 x1.0 x8mm ?
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No, it's not a good idea to try and use 2! I have seen 1.5 dia ones which are 9mm long for M6, I may even have some buried at the back of my workshop, I will check for you tomorrow
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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Just found the e bay item you want, number 111273402176 he does them in packs of 10, less than £3 including post, they are 1.5xD which is 9mm long, just in case I can't find any
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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Hairy, there would be no point sending Mike a helicoil without the tap and insert tool. Even if he bought a helicoil kit, it doesn't come with a tap wrench.
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Hi Trigger, I had assumed from Mike's last post that he had ordered a kit but couldn't get a kit with Dx1.5 coils:))
Sent from my GT-S5839i using Tapatalk 2
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thanks all
just bought the 8mm kit , no big deal I will order the 9mm coils as well, great fun this drilling lark :-\
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Sorry, Hairy. I am getting lost here Mike. Why have you ordered a 8mm helicoil kit when the oil drain bolt is 6mmx10mm? When you say 8mm do you mean the length???
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Get a cheap set of "rats tail" files as if there is any coil left outside after fitting to full depth you use the triangular file to put a notch in the coil wire at the edge of the hole and break off the excess---hope that makes sense asit's a damn site easier to do than explain
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-Piece-Helicoil-Thread-Repair-Kit-M6-x-1-0-x-8-0mm-/310678382294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4855dfe6d6#ht_1761wt_952
what I have ordered ;D
m6x1x8.......... could not find a 9mm kit but hairygit gave me link to the coils....... and tap is in the kit
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Mike, I use helicoils nearly every day. The kit you have ordered is spot on, there is no need to order extra coils. The 8mm in length will coil to 9mm once in a thread. There is no such thing as a 8mm in length. It will be a thread of 6mm x 1mm pitch at 1.5D. The 1.5D is the depth of the coil, so the seller is giving you the depth measurement before insert.
It is a bit like the washer suppliers saying that they are selling a M3 washer but, in fact has a ID of 3.2, M6 washer which has a ID of 6.4 and a M12 has a ID of 13mm. A true washer that has a ID of 6mm, would never fit a 6mm bolt, because there would be no clearance.
Helicoil kits do not come with a tap wrench. Do not go out and buy one. Once you get the kit PM me and i will post you a wrench and you can use it and then post it back to me.
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turning into a disaster :-[
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's happnin mike ?
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off centre by a touch, drill bits snapped and drilled the casing....
time for a break from it
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drain from top time
what are chances of replacement case covers,
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blob of weld onto the broken off remains, then grip the bit of weld with mole grips. I might be able to dig out a spare fork leg lower / set of if you get stuck.
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ok so think I have sorted the sheared drain bolt,
any tips for taking out scratches on the forks, not really deep but enough to feel them and see them
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0360_zpsb7191466.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0360_zpsb7191466.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0361_zps1a326e32.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0361_zps1a326e32.jpg.html)
(http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae228/INEEDMOREPICS/PICT0362_zps39116630.jpg) (http://s974.photobucket.com/user/INEEDMOREPICS/media/PICT0362_zps39116630.jpg.html)
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Scratches, with wet & dry. By the look of them you need to start with 400 and work up to 2,000. Then out with the polisher, to a nice finish.
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A nice chrome or stainless allen screw is a good replacement for that drain hex.
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yeah will go for the stainless allen
fork seals should arrive tomorrow so will clean up cases best I can, then get it all back together and start it ?
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well another problem, after new copper washer and bolt it leaks,
now I did go a tiny bit off centre and drill the aluminium, it now has a new helicoil and bolt and copper washer
the leak is very tiny, all I had to seal was jb weld, I know not ideal but its what I had
what could i use to seal around this bolt, lost about a table spoon in 3 weeks
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How about plumbers PTFE tape?
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not sure if its coming out from the section I drilled by accident, could nip the bolt out and try that idea with plumbers tape though nice one
if any other suggestions let me know , at moment jb weld and its setting and holding until I put pressure on forks
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Ptfe tape may do it, sort of worked with my 250 where I did the same thing with the exhaust studs, sadly the leak seems to be back after the bike was dropped on ice but as it aint bad I've not re done. if that fails maybe a bit of heamatite around the undserside of the bolt head and the first few threads, allowed to part set and tighten as normal. It might work.
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If all else fails a jab with an aluminium welder woudn't cost the earth.
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Hi,
The seal occurs between the bolt head/copper washer/outer flat surface, I would clean and dry the thread and bolt, and coat an aluminium washer with good old Hylomar blue and give that a go, but make sure the outer flat surface sealing area is flat and square to the tapped hole.----Ken