Post by: haynes66 on December 04, 2021, 02:51:59 PM
pete
Post by: allankelly1 on December 04, 2021, 03:00:28 PM
That will then form condensation when the temp drops
Maybe a electric tube heater just to keep the place above freezing if is a small shed but these days everything that is gas or electric is money hungry
Even my garage that is part of the house with a bedroom on top gets cool but thankfully no condensation issues and if it does get colder I have a C/H rad plumbed in that I can turn on to keep the place comfortable
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Post by: flatfour on December 04, 2021, 03:46:37 PM
Without the heater on previous years, there have been real issues with damp in there.
Post by: haynes66 on December 04, 2021, 04:46:29 PM
Post by: Bryanj on December 04, 2021, 05:24:01 PM
Post by: Moorey on December 04, 2021, 06:38:00 PM
I use a cheap Chinese 5Kw diesel air heater, the same type as used in lorries. They are a indirect hot air heater so do not have the
same condensation problems as heaters using a open flame. It is used pretty much daily through the winter and is now on its 5th
winter and hasn't been any bother at all. If it failed now I would get another immediately. The only drawback to them is they are a
little noisy. Certainly nothing like as noisy s a small space heater. Do not be conned by the 8kw claims they simply do not do it and
they are exactly the same as the 5kw units. Running costs when on max 5kw 0.5 ltr per hr, red diesel approx 85p per litre.
This type.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304243321551?hash=item46d650aacf:g:BQsAAOSwA5JhGx~-
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 04, 2021, 11:12:24 PM
a dehumidifier is a good idea but i also want a bit of warmth to work in there! my 62 year old joints dont work well in the cold
It might not be the cold but the damp, I find the dehumidifier also gives out some warm air.
I'm with Oddjob, I have run a RubyDry dehumidifier for the previous five years in a 18ft x 18ft pre-cast concrete garage on its lowest setting, approx 150w from when the temp drops below 4c (although I've lined the garage with 50mm kingspan on all the walls and floor). I work in the garage a few times a week. The air is dry and actually warm to the extent there is no chill. Yes, its expensive to run at approx 4-5p/hour (likely to be 7-8p now the energy prices have gone through the roof!) but this is nothing in comparison to watching the bikes suffer with damp and condensation and the cost and time to put them right. I used to switch an electric heater on before I had the dehumidifier but it created so much condensation I stopped using it.
Post by: Athame57 on December 05, 2021, 06:21:18 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2021, 09:40:10 AM
If I do any work in my garage now that it's getting pretty cold I run my twin 500W lamps as they are good for directing the light & heat onto the area I am working in - cost is not a biggie as I only work for a maximum of 2 hours so that's at 16.20 p/kwh.
Post by: Moorey on December 05, 2021, 11:20:43 AM
De-Humidifers in cold rooms. Try doing a simple google search, refrig ones are not worth running,
http://www.dehumidifier-reviews.co.uk/best-dehumidifier-garage
Post by: allankelly1 on December 05, 2021, 11:53:33 AM
Yes just froze up
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2021, 11:53:45 AM
Mine is a dessicant type I believe the Ruby Dry is the same type they do put some heat out as well. It never fails to produce the condensate from operating at all winter temperatures.
De-Humidifers in cold rooms. Try doing a simple google search, refrig ones are not worth running,
http://www.dehumidifier-reviews.co.uk/best-dehumidifier-garage
Post by: ST1100 on December 05, 2021, 01:04:46 PM
No had one in loft once due to damp on felt in north side eavesWrong kit, the pro sets have frost protect sensor/stat and defrost heaters...
Yes just froze up
Post by: allankelly1 on December 05, 2021, 01:11:21 PM
As all warm moisture in modern houses will end up in the loft and without any flow of air will condensate on a very cold roof felt
If fact my mate had same problem and did same thing
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Post by: Laverda Dave on December 05, 2021, 07:56:26 PM
Mine is a dessicant type I believe the Ruby Dry is the same type they do put some heat out as well. It never fails to produce the condensate from operating at all winter temperatures.
De-Humidifers in cold rooms. Try doing a simple google search, refrig ones are not worth running,
http://www.dehumidifier-reviews.co.uk/best-dehumidifier-garage
That's correct Ted. Mine runs fine in zero and lower temperatures. The heat is produced by a small heating element inside the Ruby Dry to dry the condensate from the spinning disc. I understand the water collected in the tank is deironised and good for the ironing whatever that is🤔
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 05, 2021, 08:42:12 PM
Mine is a dessicant type I believe the Ruby Dry is the same type they do put some heat out as well. It never fails to produce the condensate from operating at all winter temperatures.
De-Humidifers in cold rooms. Try doing a simple google search, refrig ones are not worth running,
http://www.dehumidifier-reviews.co.uk/best-dehumidifier-garage
That's correct Ted. Mine runs fine in zero and lower temperatures. The heat is produced by a small heating element inside the Ruby Dry to dry the condensate from the spinning disc. I understand the water collected in the tank is deironised and good for the ironing whatever that is🤔
I use mine for watering my carniverous plants - ironing pray tell me what that word means is it something to do with heating iron (Fe) then fashioning it into arrowheads?
Post by: PHILIP2908 on December 05, 2021, 09:17:55 PM
It’s all to do with airflow and keeping the inside air temperature close to that outside. If there’s a big difference, and by opening a door and the two air masses meet, there will be a formation of condensation.
I had one of those Compton garages once, made from pre-fab concrete panels; these just didn’t ‘breathe’ and help equalize the two temperatures. So, at about 11.00 in the morning on a bright spring sunny day, the air temperature had risen but that in the garage was pretty much as it was during the cold night. On several occasions, I would open the up-and-over door, the warm air would rush in, meet the cold air and believe me a cloud would form momentarily.
Now I have a garage constructed from breeze block and brick; this allows the garage to breathe. A vent in the window is key and I no longer have to bother with a dehumidifier. If I go out to work in there, I just shut the window, turn on the heater – a 5kw job from Machine Mart. And when I leave, it’s heater off and open the vent/window again. It doesn’t matter how cold it gets in there as long as the temp matches that outside.
So to me the key is always ventilation and keeping the temperatures as equal as possible.
Post by: SumpMagnet on December 05, 2021, 11:20:26 PM
Still .... the Dionaea like the nice sunny windowsill they got now, and are still growing strongly when they ought to be dormant. The sundews and pitchers don;t seem to be fussed. Need to repot my 'B52' before Spring gets going....its a monster :)
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on December 06, 2021, 06:54:48 AM
I have no idea what a carnivorous plant looks like.
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Post by: Orcade-Ian on December 06, 2021, 08:58:43 AM
I think the lead singer with Led Zepp is a carnivorous Plant 8)
But seriously, on the subject of shed heating, even in Orkney, I don't use any and don't have any corrosion issues. We get plenty of natural ventilation around here (read WIND) which keeps the inside and outside temperatures reasonably equal. When I was in Lancashire I had the Devil's own job keeping things like the lathe and milling machine free from the four-letter word. We used to call those February and March days 'instant damp days' when the day warmed rapidly after a frosty night. That hardly ever happens here - a handful of times in the 16 years we have enjoyed our life here.
Ian
Post by: MrDavo on December 06, 2021, 09:51:29 AM
I have a dehumidifier in the garage but when it’s brass monkeys cold it doesn’t work at all. Sudden temperature change is the enemy.
As a kid I had a Venus Fly Trap for a while, I used to feed it flies and bits of sausage. I think it lasted as long as a fairground goldfish.
Post by: allankelly1 on December 06, 2021, 10:51:25 AM
My parents had a old cottage and it was so open under the eves birds used to nest in the loft
and mice would come in for the winter too Like I said earlier the north side roof felt on a frosty cold day used to drip condensation like this as there was no air flow and no sun to warm this side of the roof
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/5f9fe84f2e9bcb854dd873d377a0679e.jpg)
(Mates place was the same and he had puddles on the boarded area
We both fitted these and problem is complete resolved
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/b97afd1697e9c771c420381c1b115910.jpg)
Yes may be a slight bit of heat loss but now the ventilation is much better( you can now feel a slight draft in the loft area) And better than a damp loft / roof joists etc
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Post by: Spitfire on December 06, 2021, 07:50:24 PM
https://www.juiceelectricalsupplies.co.uk/nuaire-drimaster-eco-positive-input-ventilation-piv-unit-hall-control.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy_yA9vfP9AIVS-vtCh17CgL6EAQYBSABEgLusfD_BwE
Cheers
Dennis
Post by: Green1 on December 06, 2021, 09:11:08 PM
I once worked on a new build care home that was filled with mosquitos 🦟 Every night before I went home I would crank up the heat and open windows and every night the site agent would shut them behind me. In the morning water would be pouring out of lights and sockets. The paint on the walls would be wet for days.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 07, 2021, 03:00:42 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 07, 2021, 04:32:33 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 07, 2021, 05:45:23 PM
Must'nt grumble Ted, ........your garage sounds warmer than 'our 'ous', it's bitter down here at the moment!
To hell with my carbon footprint I'm a nesh individual at the best of times turned our thermostat up again today. It's a toasty 74.3 F in our front lounge (23.5 C) - I turn it down a couple of noches at bed time. Really could use a decent time adjustable thermostat to turn the temperature down at night then ramp it up again automatically when we get up - even though we have a water bed I feel the cold in the night if it drops below 70 F.
Still waiting for my speedometer drive seals from DS so I can get the new front wheel in for the winter recess.
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 07, 2021, 07:46:57 PM
Oo, yer devil Ted ;D
Post by: Green1 on December 07, 2021, 07:50:53 PM
I once worked on a new build Jewish place of worship you know the one begins with an S. I can't spell it so not going to try 😂.
The tall ceilings were designed to allow air flow to prevent still air.
To get it to pass they wrapped the entire roof with pallet wrap and then it only just passed. 😮
Your all softies it's currently 15c in my lounge.
Post by: Arfa on December 09, 2021, 03:44:27 PM
The garage is now lined with a semi-permeable membrane and 50mm of rockwool plus 19mm OSB round all the walls. For the roof I put together a frame that stands insulation away from the roof panels to allow air to circualate above the insulation and hence deal with condensation. The insulation is one of these hi tech flexible rolls, about 40mm thick. I've also covered the back of the up and over door with similar stuff, and used rubber draft excluders. In all a bit of a faff but it was the cheapest solution to a garage rebuild and insulation. I use a fan heater if I'm working out there (unless petrol is involved) but the temperature is pretty bearable summer and winter. For example on a couple of freezing nights recently it didn't drop below 5 degrees, but on a longer cold spell it would drop further. The bikes are now unbagged and i use a small thermostatic controlled greenhouse heater under each one and last year I had no problems with this approach. I do drain the petrol from the stored bikes, by the way.
In the workshop I've got a couple of 500 watt IR heaters suspended from the ceiling and a wireless thermostat with manual overide controls them. I've set a frost setting but i don't think the heaters have come on this year. The heaters work very well for the uses i put the building to, and if any of you worked in a hangar you'll be familiar with IR heating.
Finally the condensation problem evidently has two factors, the releative humidity, and the air temperature, these are shown on a Psychrometric chart, plenty of them on the interweb for all sorts of gasses. So one either increases the temperature, or reduces the humidity to prevent condensation. In practical terms either dehumidify or heat or both, unless you're lucky enough to live somewhere that's not condensation prone. As an example at 80% RH (todays value outside) and an air temp of 10 degrees C, the dew point (where water will condense on a object) is about 7 degrees C. In other words if my bikes are held above 7 degrees than there won't be any condensation on them.
Not sure if that's helpful, anyhow, compliments of the season to you all. I should get out more......
Post by: haynes66 on December 09, 2021, 05:01:33 PM
pete