Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: AndyD on May 13, 2021, 07:29:39 PM
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Here's another puzzle I'm hoping to solve...
The side stand fits and pivots fine but holds the bike pretty well vertically with no lean at all.
Nothing looks bent so I wondered if this is the correct stand for the 400 or something that's been swapped previously.
[attach=1]
The stand is also quite a loose fitting onto the frame bracket and seems to have a spigot for second spring which made me think it could be the wrong one maybe?
Cheers,
Andy
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Something sprung to my mind which is proper wheel diameter and stock rear shocks/front forks, things that could possibly effect the overall frame to ground clearance.
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Is there any evidence of repairs to the lower frame tube either side of the pivot point Andy? 400/4 frames are known to rot out in this area, I think a couple of members on here have discovered issues such as this on their rebuilds.
The side stand appears to be stock although I don't know if the part number is the same for several models, you could try putting the part number into the DSS website and see what comes up.
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Thanks guys,
Johnny - The wheel is correct and it seems the shocks are a bit longer than standard which I guess would increase the lean rather than reduce it.
Dave - I think you may well be right about the repair. It's hard to tell as the frame had been powder coated by the PO and looks pretty good but if I look closely there are some wrinkles in the frame tube around the stand bracket so I guess it could have been repaired at some point.
Not really sure what to do with this bike as there are just so many niggles at every step. Essentially I think it was just not a great basis for restoration due to the number of non-standard or damaged / bodged bits. It also makes me a bit nervous that the powder coating may hide other repairs with no idea if they were done properly.
I enjoyed getting the engine together and running well but I'm not sure I want to put much more into this bike from here so I'll have to decide whether to carry on, stick her back in the shed, or sell / part out.
Cheers,
Andy
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Hi Andy,
I have a similar problem with one of my frames. The side stand mounting had clearly been welded up at some point. There was plenty of excess weld so I decided to grind some off. Grinding off revealed some poor welding that was just built up until the mounting was solid. Underneath it all there was no frame tube left.
[attach=1]
I've checked a good frame I have and the angle of the side stand mounting is about 35deg.
[attach=2]
The mounting on the bad frame is about 45deg.
I'll have to have part of the frame tube replaced and the mounting welded back on.
It would be good if someone else can confirm the angle before I have it done.
John
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Andy, If the worst happens and you find the frame has rotted out in the sidestand area there is a guy called Howard at Hybrid Motorcycles located between Croxley Green and Sarrat in Hertfordshire. He is an excellent welder (he worked in aviation) and undertakes frame straightening. I take my frames to him for alignment checking before doing any restoration work. He welded my Morini 350 rear frame loop after I found a nasty crack in it. His workshop is very old fashioned but the quality of his work is excellent.
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Thanks again,
John - I think it may well be the same here as everything looks OK but the lean angle is way off and I'd guess it's had the bracket welded on incorrectly as you noted.
My concern is whether there are any more hidden bodges under the powder coating!
For the moment I've wheeled her to the back of the garage while I decide which way to go.
Dave - that's a really handy contact thanks. That's only a few miles from where I live and I'm sure they'll be useful for a few things besides the 400. I've got a CX500 turbo with a broken side stand bracket which I think can be welded but I really don't want to risk it being done badly and this guy sounds ideal (and local).
I'll mull over the 400 for a while and crack on with some other projects in the meantime. Been trying to sort out all the bikes and bits in the garage / sheds and make some sort of plan of which ones to do but indecision wins every time!
Cheers,
Andy
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Back again,
Had a bit of time to look closer at the stand issue.
Shocks are over-length but this would make the lean angle better - I did swap them with a correct length, rusty, set and the bike was vertical.
I can't really make out whether the area has been welded up - the frame was powder coated when I got it and it's not really clear to me if original or bodged - maybe someone can tell from the attached photos?
I also wondered if the stand is the right one - it has a spigot on both sides of the stand as shown and maybe is simply too long? Dimension from bolt centre to heel of the stand is around 21cm as photo.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4][attach=5]
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Andy
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This is a picture of my brother's which we believe is original.
[attach=1]
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The stand length is the same as mine which sits the bike at the right angle.
The angles out and forward look very similar by eye, difficult to be sure without measuring angles accurately.
If you're able to compare your bike with another one side by side you should see any difference straight away.
I guess it's removed while you're sorting the stand problem, but there should be a locknut on the pivot bolt behind the stand bracket. 👍
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Thanks
Deano - looks like the double spigot is standard then. From your photo the weld for the stand bracket looks to be more on the underside of the frame tube than on my one so maybe that is where a repair has been done.
Tayside - yes, nut left off as I've been playing with the stand. Haven't got a second bike to compare to sadly.
Might have to bite the bullet and take some of the paint off to see if the area's been welded up and then decide.
Cheers,
Andy
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Andy, anybody else on the forum live near you who could bring their bike round? I would, but NE Scotland is a bit far!
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Thanks Gareth
Agree it would be a bit of a trek - but down hill all the way here at least!
Had a friend at school who couldn't be convinced that north-south was different to up-down and firmly believed it would use far less petrol going south rather than north - bless!
Cheers,
Andy
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Thanks Gareth
Agree it would be a bit of a trek - but down hill all the way here at least!
Had a friend at school who couldn't be convinced that north-south was different to up-down and firmly believed it would use far less petrol going south rather than north - bless!
Cheers,
Andy
Brilliant! He's probably a politician now.🤪
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Just a thought, are the wheels and tyres standard sizes?
Front fork springs correct length and stanchions positioned correctly in the yokes?
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Have just been out to garage and squatted crossed legs on the floor armed with a tape measure and protractor plus phone. My bike is absolutely bog standard, the length of the stand matches, and the angle from the horizontal plane is 40 degrees. I will attempt to load pics, but this is not my prime specialty! At first glance it does appear that your stand seems a touch too upright. PS
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Pics. Hopefully!!
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Try again
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Thanks Gareth and Micky,
I think the wheels and forks etc. are standard but will have another look later today.
Thanks for the photos - I'll check the numbers and angle on mine and see if it makes any sense.
Cheers,
Andy
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Update on the stand issue.
Laverda Dave very kindly came over with his really nice yellow 400 so we could compare the stand on mine with an original one and it does look like the stand lug has been re-welded.
Through the powdercoat it's hard to tell exactly what the repair / welding is like but everything seems sound and well done as far as can be seen, with the exception of the lug angle.
Really appreciate Dave's time and effort coming over so we could look at this - and great to have a good chat about bikes in general.
Think I'll just live with the rather upright bike for the time being while I crack on with other bits.
Cheers,
Andy
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My side stand is like yours - not like the one in the parts book that shows item 241 Stand Rubber p/n 50548-356-700 that attaches to a lug on the side stand is this stand for US versions or an early model 400?
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The side stand rubber was standard in the USA, Canada and Germany.
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Mine comes without the lug, I wondered if it had broken off or something. I can't see the point of it myself, does it stop the thing sinking in a soft surface? :-\
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Mine comes without the lug, I wondered if it had broken off or something. I can't see the point of it myself, does it stop the thing sinking in a soft surface? :-\
It's supposed to stop the stand digging in if you leave it down. Can't see it working very well myself.
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It's for if you ride off with the stand down, it will flick it back up.
Kevin