Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: Craig CB400 on January 24, 2017, 09:53:50 PM

Title: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 24, 2017, 09:53:50 PM
Hi all

Well I have had my 1976 F2 for nearly 18 months now and it has been slow going on what has turned out to be a far bigger restoration than I originally thought. Bought the bike off eBay blind (not the wisest thing I know) but to be fair got it for a song. So it is my first restoration so it has already been a steep learning curve and after getting some good info from the site thought it was long overdue that I shared my toils.

So below is the bike as I bought it, complete apart from missing mudguards and chain guards, but with a useful selection of additional parts, some of which have been scrap but some quite usable.


(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0199_zpsom0zna6r.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0199_zpsom0zna6r.jpg.html)


The bike is now almost completely stripped and will put some additional pics and info up when I have 5 minutes, but wanted to say hi to everyone and look forward to sharing with you over what I hope is months but will probably be years



Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: haynes66 on January 25, 2017, 07:51:37 AM
that looks like a fun project! like you, my projects usually end up in years rather than months, so youre in good company.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: paul G on January 25, 2017, 08:05:29 AM
Craig,
              Looks a good starting point especially with most of the bits.
I bought mine as a box of bits and thoroughly enjoyed the restoration process.
Money will as always dictate the time frame.
Good look  ;)
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 25, 2017, 08:09:14 AM
Welcome to the forum Craig. Good luck with your project, it doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you get there in the end and enjoy it along the way.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: andut on January 25, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
Good luck Craig - enjoy your rebuild and the satisfaction you'll get when it starts to go back together and then fires up for the first time !

Andy
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Chris400F on January 25, 2017, 09:31:06 AM
Welcome Craig, from yet another 400 owner!
Good luck with the rebuild, as you will probably have already seen there is plenty of help and advice available here.
If blue is the original colour then the bike is an F, not an F2, but that's being pedantic!
If it is a UK bike then I believe F2 frame numbers start at 1096242 if that helps.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: paul G on January 25, 2017, 12:19:24 PM
Welcome Craig, from yet another 400 owner!
Good luck with the rebuild, as you will probably have already seen there is plenty of help and advice available here.
If blue is the original colour then the bike is an F, not an F2, but that's being pedantic!
If it is a UK bike then I believe F2 frame numbers start at 1096242 if that helps.

Rear footrests on the frame F2 !!
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 25, 2017, 12:42:28 PM
Yep, I just looking at the photo and about to say the same Paul. Mine is an F2 and has footrests on the frame and not on the swinging arm, thank goodness!!. Whoever thought that was a good idea at Honda needs shoooooting  ;D ;D
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Chris400F on January 25, 2017, 01:25:56 PM
Well, I hadn't planned to open a can of worms here but ....
Yes, it is true that the F2 had the pillion footrests on the frame but as far as I know this change was made part way through the production run of the earlier F version.
If you look at the Parts List there are actually three part numbers for the frame for UK bikes (area code E in the Parts List).
I don't know what the difference(s) is/were for the 'middle' number, but the final one was used on F and F2 models and I'm guessing that this was the one with the loops on the frame for the footrests.
And I'm pretty sure that for whatever reason all US bikes had the footrests on the swinging arm right to the end.
F2 models were distinguished by the Antares Red or Parakeet Yellow paintwork with stripes on the tank.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 25, 2017, 01:38:03 PM
You and your cans of worms Chris  ;D ;D ;D. TBH, I have just been informed by him indoors, well him out in the workshop actually, that there is no definitive cut off point and it could be either / or.............so, that's me told then !!!!! ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Laverda Dave on January 25, 2017, 01:44:52 PM
Welcome Craig. ANOTHER 400/4 owner, we do have good taste. Like you I bought my box of bits sight unseen on ebay although it was 90% there (plus the engine of a second bike) it was just the missing 10% that proved to be difficult!
My bike is also a F2 with a blue tank although my other F2 is yellow  :).
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Rozabikes Tim on January 25, 2017, 02:14:32 PM
Out to the garage tonight to my blue F / F2?? resto project for some detective work.... :o

Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Chris400F on January 25, 2017, 02:27:09 PM
You and your cans of worms Chris  ;D ;D ;D. TBH, I have just been informed by him indoors, well him out in the workshop actually, that there is no definitive cut off point and it could be either / or.............so, that's me told then !!!!! ::) ::) ::)
I like worms Julie ....  :D :D

Here are some words on the different versions from the 400/4 History page on the DS web site. Looks like I picked up the engine number instead of the frame number in my first post on this.

"Confusion often arises over the two models that were produced. Earlier F models had a plain red or blue tank and side-panels running to frame number 1073399. The tanks only bore the words HONDA Super Sport, and the side-panel logo used a font wherein each character was represented by three parallel lines depicting 400FOUR. Up to frame number 1056883 F models had swing-arm mounted pillion footrests, but from then on the F models had the pillion footrests moved to frame-mounted brackets; it is often assumed that this feature only started with the F2 model but this is not the case. The F2 model commenced with frame number 1073400 and featured a new paint scheme: candy antares red or parakeet yellow. The new paintwork featured stripes on the tank and had a different, angular, font for the 400FOUR label on the side panels. The F1 model was not shipped to the United Kingdom or Europe and was a USA/Canade only model. It featured typically a plain yellow tank and black side-panels with the F-type early logo. Today it is not uncommon to see examples restored with F2-type paintwork but F-type logos on the side panels, or F-type early frames with F2-type paintwork."

Oh, and sorry for slightly hijacking your thread Craig. You'll find that sometimes happens on here!
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Drew400 on January 25, 2017, 02:34:36 PM
Hi Craig,

Welcome from me too.

Mine was a dirty, oily old runner that I turned into a box of bits... and then put it back together again. But not until I'd made loads of mistakes and received much help from members of this forum.

It's a great place to learn.

Enjoy!

D.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 25, 2017, 03:49:30 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome guys, no issues with the thread hijacking either, some interesting stuff there and proves I am still learning about the bike.

One of the key things for me which was decision made early on was not to rebuild but restore to try and keep the bike as original as humanly possible. Inevitably I have run into issues with this approach, but really wanted to keep the bike as it should be hence needing the full "nut and bolt" rebuild. As will be revealed however, that decision was not always as easy as it should have been and I did deviate from that approach, but for good reason.

Great to see so many other enthusiastic 400/4 owners as well, I feel pretty sure that I will be picking everyone's brains now the real fun has started, restoration and rebuilding
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: mike the bike on January 25, 2017, 04:16:42 PM
Welome Craig from another 400four owner and restorer.  That lot will keep you busy for a while.  Advice is always free on here but we like our piccies so you started off on the right foot.
Personally, I would start with the frame, getting it powder coated (other coatings are available),  then you've got somewhere to bolt all your new/refurbished shiny stuff to.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 25, 2017, 07:17:39 PM
Cheers Mike

Your approach makes perfect sense which is probably why I went a different way  ::)

My logic was to strip everything (which I have nearly done now) so I could assess what needed replacing and what could be refurbished, but naturally couldn't resist doing a bit of renovation along the way. Did manage to find a few horrors as the strip went, like the swinging arm as below where the weld had split open on one side, so one for the skip. Corrosion has been one long effort so far on almost everything, but getting there slowly....

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0208_zpsfz7vdgkh.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0208_zpsfz7vdgkh.jpg.html)

Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 25, 2017, 07:23:45 PM
Yes, I agree with Mike, get the frame done and then put the wheels on (not using that swinging arm though  :( :() and then at least with a rolling chassis you can move it around. Everything else bolts in or on after that.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: paul G on January 26, 2017, 08:11:21 AM
Yep, I just looking at the photo and about to say the same Paul. Mine is an F2 and has footrests on the frame and not on the swinging arm, thank goodness!!. Whoever thought that was a good idea at Honda needs shoooooting  ;D ;D

Julie,
              It's great exercise for the wife or onyone on the back, full leg workout ;D ;D
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Tomb on January 26, 2017, 08:50:31 AM
Unfortunately it was something Harley Davidson were still doing in 2000, maybe later but I don't know Harleys.

(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/7aQAAOSwA3dYXC37/s-l225.jpg)

Seems you can buy a kit to change to frame mounted for Harleys, can you buy a kit for mounting 400/4? or has anyone done a home mod?

Is it just the bracing that has corroded on the swing arm or is it through the tube?
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Chris400F on January 26, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
The Harley footrests look much closer to the pivot point than on the Honda so there would be less movement from suspension travel, although still some.

As for the mounting kit, I have never seen anything like this advertised.
The early bikes with the footrests on the swinging arm still had a loop on the right of the frame to mount the silencer.
Without the different frames to compare I don't know how the size of this compares to the later bikes.
Maybe this could be used as a basis for a footrest mount on the right, just needing a loop to be welded to the frame for the left footrest.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 26, 2017, 11:22:21 AM
So I will start playing a bit of a catch up on what has been done so far, will take a while so will spread it over a few posts to save boring everyone to death.

My first objective was really to get the frame stripped down completely and to break the components into smaller groups, then from their break everything into individual components. So after purchasing a new rack and containers to put everything in started the strip down process. First the tank, seat, battery, airbox, brakes, and headlight went into their respective bins without too many dramas so she was starting to look a little threadbare already. Everything taken off to this point looked salvageable to a point with a bit of effort, so far so good.

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0241_zps1cz5iaqi.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0241_zps1cz5iaqi.jpg.html)

Next rear wheel came off without any problems, then the rear mudguards. At that point I found the outer guard was actually black fibreglass, so after holding back my gag reflex that went straight in the bin and a new item on the "Required" list. Also handlebars and clocks came off. From what I could see already almost everything had varying degrees of corrosion, from light surface rust to what looked like it had been left for a year in a salt marsh.

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0193_zpsgjd2db33.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0193_zpsgjd2db33.jpg.html)

It seemed like I was going to spend the next 5 years just trying to clean up all the parts before I could even do anythig meaningful from a restoration point of view, when my wife came to the rescue with this  :D

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/20170126_104147_zpsfc7wfoua.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/20170126_104147_zpsfc7wfoua.jpg.html)

So now armed with the ability to blast parts, started experimenting with various grades of grit to find what worked best on what material, finding the balance between removing old paint and corrosion without stripping back any metal. It was also time to invest in a new compressor, going from a baby 25 ltr 2 hp unit to a 50 litre 3hp unit, which allows for a much longer working time without pressure drop off, so now we were cooking!

Before

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0250_zpssvrkopmm.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0250_zpssvrkopmm.jpg.html)

5 minutes later

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0252_zpsebdve51j.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0252_zpsebdve51j.jpg.html)

Finally time to get back to the frame, and in a few hours she was looking super lightweight and time to start digging into the parts that had been stripped, but not after a liberal rust removal and rust curing session on the frame, I was not going to get it powder coated yet (reason will be revealed later), but no excuse to let it get worse

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0980_zpsb7cou2cx.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0980_zpsb7cou2cx.jpg.html)

So that is all for now, going to sort through some other photos and prepare the next installment
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: petermigreen on January 26, 2017, 05:29:41 PM
Possible opening a can of worms but... the headlight ears don't appear to be correct for a 400/4.
Think there should be a bracket.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Chris400F on January 26, 2017, 05:45:28 PM
Possible opening a can of worms but... the headlight ears don't appear to be correct for a 400/4.
Think there should be a bracket.
I noticed that too, but looking back at the first pic in the thread the indicators look to be on such a bracket.
Is the bracket present but has been butchered and the headlight mounts removed, and the chrome headlight ears added instead?
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Nurse Julie on January 26, 2017, 05:49:40 PM
You are correct Peter. They should look like this.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: mike the bike on January 26, 2017, 05:50:01 PM
I spotted that too.  Don't bin them though, someone on here will be able to identify them.   Once identified you can flog them on fleabay.
I'm well jealous of your blast cabinet, I could have done with one of those.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 26, 2017, 06:37:14 PM
Interesting spot that, there are a few possible headlight type brackets in the boxes of bits, will have to have a dig about. So I wonder what the ears are off, have to say they do fit really well!
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 30, 2017, 03:47:58 PM
Not needing much of an excuse to go off at a tangent, having done a bit of a Google search on the ears I think they are off a CB500 or CB550 based on the pictures I have seen, they suit the bike really well, but not original so not going back on.

With that in mind I have had a dig through the boxes of bit and have found something that resembles the headlight bracket as below. From my understanding though, the headlight bracket should also have the indicator mounting stalks on them as well, whereas with what I found it looks like there has been some bodging going on, especially looking at the quality of the indicator stalk mounting bracket that looks like it was done as some rubbish school project. Can anyone confirm my suspicions are correct and I need to get a replacement?

(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/19fcc190-0e60-4fd5-a527-1164c264ef1f_zpshmsgm3nq.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/19fcc190-0e60-4fd5-a527-1164c264ef1f_zpshmsgm3nq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Bryanj on January 30, 2017, 04:08:18 PM
I seem to recolect that the indicators were on a long rod that would have been an extension of the tube at the bottom of the frame you have
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Chris400F on January 30, 2017, 04:37:04 PM
Correct. It should look like this.

[attachimg=1]

I have heard they can get bent (when making contact with the road?) so maybe that is why the ends were lopped off yours.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: mike the bike on January 30, 2017, 05:43:13 PM
Mine were chopped by the cnut that nicked my bike; I repaired it with a length of steel tube from B&Q, brazing it back in place.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on January 30, 2017, 06:14:37 PM
Mine were chopped by the cnut that nicked my bike; I repaired it with a length of steel tube from B&Q, brazing it back in place.

Not a bad idea, have all the pieces just not necessarily attached into one, may look at removing the old broken stems and welding the separate indicator stem in its place.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: petermigreen on January 30, 2017, 07:23:35 PM
There's a couple available on 400fourbits.co.uk
search GG - 083 and GG - 336
Peter
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on October 11, 2017, 03:10:11 PM
Well it has been quite a while since the last update, work has been progressing but a couple of family dramas have had an impact which has slowed things down a bit. Anyway below a few pics of some other bits that have been done.

Firstly the front brake caliper assembly. The piston was well seized in the caliper but a good blast of compressed air soon got it out and then stripped the caliper and mounting down to bare metal. Also sourced new piston, seal, spring, and adjuster bolt to go in.

Before painting was looking very tired
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0201_zpsbhqww7wf.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0201_zpsbhqww7wf.jpg.html)

But after a bit of graft and TLC unit came out quite nicely and quite pleased with the end result
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0223_zpsfzt2oqee.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0223_zpsfzt2oqee.jpg.html)

Might yet re-plate the caliper bolts, but nearly there

Next up were the front forks. Whilst the chrome was actually in really good condition after a quick clean, the lower sections were in a real state.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0944_zpspuhbjbxj.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0944_zpspuhbjbxj.jpg.html)

So another strip down and also purchased new top nuts and seals as the ones fitted were way beyond any kind of help. Ideally I wanted to restore the lower sections to original, but the condition was too poor to get a satisfactory finish, so resorted to refurbishing and painting and whilst not OEM I have to say again really pleased with the finish.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0988_zpsa1bah8cn.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0988_zpsa1bah8cn.jpg.html)
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p436/craig301/IMG_0991_zpsav6vpves.jpg) (http://s346.photobucket.com/user/craig301/media/IMG_0991_zpsav6vpves.jpg.html)

Next instalment - the seat!
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: MrDavo on October 11, 2017, 03:32:49 PM
While the silver paint is not the original finish for the sliders, the finish you have achieved is really good considering that they looked as if they had been stored under the sea for a long time.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Integra99 on October 11, 2017, 04:13:03 PM

Great build so far.. I'm loving my own project.. if you are after any parts let me know. Also did you throw the fiberglass mudguard away.. if not I may be interested.

Also I have indicators, possibly a seat, chain guard , etc rims

Regards
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on October 11, 2017, 04:53:02 PM

Great build so far.. I'm loving my own project.. if you are after any parts let me know. Also did you throw the fiberglass mudguard away.. if not I may be interested.

Also I have indicators, possibly a seat, chain guard , etc rims

Regards

No mudguards when I bought it Integra, seat is good but may need a few bits, possibly the chain guard and maybe wheels as well.
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Craig CB400 on October 11, 2017, 04:54:18 PM
While the silver paint is not the original finish for the sliders, the finish you have achieved is really good considering that they looked as if they had been stored under the sea for a long time.

I know what you mean, got suspicious when the V5 stated the last owner was a Mr J.Cousteau  ;D ;D
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Integra99 on October 11, 2017, 05:06:32 PM

Cool just let me know or drop me a PM.. 
Title: Re: New CB400/4 project
Post by: Nurse Julie on October 11, 2017, 05:24:30 PM
While the silver paint is not the original finish for the sliders, the finish you have achieved is really good considering that they looked as if they had been stored under the sea for a long time.
They look like barnacles have moved in  ;D ;D. Lovely finish on the paint, they look well smart now.
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