Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: jon stead on May 27, 2018, 09:51:55 PM
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Clutch cable snapped at the handlebar lever the other day. I’ve ordered a new cable from Silvers and decided to take the old one off in readiness. Disappointed to find the clevis on the sled, clutch lifter damaged, even though the cable was still connected and clutch operating ok. Ordered a replacement one of those as well. Just waiting now.
In the meantime I thought I’d check out the clutch push rod with a view to fitting the new one I got from Trigger last year. It seems that my set up is a little different to that shown in the CMSNL exploded diagram. There’s a short section of rod/sleeve about 8mm diameter and about 60mm long that is made up of two pieces that rotate against each other and I can’t see the long push rod anywhere.
Are there different set ups out there?
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Clutch cable snapped at the handlebar lever the other day. I’ve ordered a new cable from Silvers and decided to take the old one off in readiness. Disappointed to find the clevis on the sled, clutch lifter damaged, even though the cable was still connected and clutch operating ok. Ordered a replacement one of those as well. Just waiting now.
In the meantime I thought I’d check out the clutch push rod with a view to fitting the new one I got from Trigger last year. It seems that my set up is a little different to that shown in the CMSNL exploded diagram. There’s a short section of rod/sleeve about 8mm diameter and about 60mm long that is made up of two pieces that rotate against each other and I can’t see the long push rod anywhere.
Are there different set ups out there?
Your pushrod is busted.
That's why you have a Trigger replacement
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
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Just for the record: was the clutch cable genuine Honda part or aftermarket?
The CB500 clutch mechanism underwent modification. You may want to consult the various Parts Lists on this. http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb500
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Clutch cable snapped at the handlebar lever the other day. I’ve ordered a new cable from Silvers and decided to take the old one off in readiness. Disappointed to find the clevis on the sled, clutch lifter damaged, even though the cable was still connected and clutch operating ok. Ordered a replacement one of those as well. Just waiting now.
In the meantime I thought I’d check out the clutch push rod with a view to fitting the new one I got from Trigger last year. It seems that my set up is a little different to that shown in the CMSNL exploded diagram. There’s a short section of rod/sleeve about 8mm diameter and about 60mm long that is made up of two pieces that rotate against each other and I can’t see the long push rod anywhere.
Are there different set ups out there?
Your pushrod is busted.
That's why you have a Trigger replacement
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
Yep, definitely busted, that's why it's in pieces and not one whole piece.
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Clutch cable snapped at the handlebar lever the other day. I’ve ordered a new cable from Silvers and decided to take the old one off in readiness. Disappointed to find the clevis on the sled, clutch lifter damaged, even though the cable was still connected and clutch operating ok. Ordered a replacement one of those as well. Just waiting now.
In the meantime I thought I’d check out the clutch push rod with a view to fitting the new one I got from Trigger last year. It seems that my set up is a little different to that shown in the CMSNL exploded diagram. There’s a short section of rod/sleeve about 8mm diameter and about 60mm long that is made up of two pieces that rotate against each other and I can’t see the long push rod anywhere.
Are there different set ups out there?
Your pushrod is busted.
That's why you have a Trigger replacement
I need to get some pictures to explain better what I’m trying to describe in words. The section of rod/sleeve that I pulled out is two pieces that are an assembly such that one piece is free rotate against the other but stays as one piece. Like I say, doesn’t look like the CMSNL part at all.
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
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Just for the record: was the clutch cable genuine Honda part or aftermarket?
The CB500 clutch mechanism underwent modification. You may want to consult the various Parts Lists on this. http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb500
Useful link, thanks. I’ve looked at the section for the “modified” K2 USA bike and the view is the same as the CMSNL one. Nothing like what it looks like is on my bike.
I’m not sure if cable genuine Honda part or not. It was on the bike when I got it.
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Thanks all for your help.
I’ll drain the oil out of the sump, pop the clutch off and see what’s going on at that side, see if I can push everything through from that side, piece it together and post some pictures on here.
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Just for the record: was the clutch cable genuine Honda part or aftermarket?
The CB500 clutch mechanism underwent modification. You may want to consult the various Parts Lists on this. http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb500
Useful link, thanks. I’ve looked at the section for the “modified” K2 USA bike and the view is the same as the CMSNL one. Nothing like what it looks like is on my bike.
I’m not sure if cable genuine Honda part or not. It was on the bike when I got it.
Jon, I should have been more specific. You may have a look at p.20-21 in the Parts List of model CB500K2 (ED, F, G) the K2 assembled in 1976 for the European continent. Maybe yours has received that set up somehow: http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_2.pdf
The pics below show what the genuine clutch cable looks like. My K2 (ED) has done 135.000 km (replaced the cable only once around 60.000 km. I have the old one here and, looking at the quality, it seems almost impossible it would ever snap. I never had any of the clutch problems that seem to occur so often on CB500s. Curious: the rod for my model still has pn: 22850-323-000 and that's why I tend to believe the rod was not the only problem but the adjuster too. The latter has also been modified. And the rod until serial no. had pn: 22850-292-020, a part that came from the CB450. From serial no. 1018728 on pn is 22850-323-000. All this is not much help for you now, I'm afraid.
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I think that the 292 rod that came from the CB450 was a solid one piece rod. The 323 part is a sandwich of three different parts. Hardened ends and ali in the long central section. But they snapped. One of my 500s had a two piece rod. The original had a steel ball inserted into perfect machined cups in the rod halves. I used it like this for 10 years as I didn't know it was supposed to be one piece and never wore at all. But when I discovered it was supposed to be one piece I blamed poor clutch engagement on it, but actually it was doing a good job and the problem was with the clutch plates.
Yes will need to take off clutch (and drain some oil, or lean the bike) to get the bit out.
The cable fitting at the lifter end is often a bit mashed.
Original cable is very good. DSS says OEM replacement. (made by original Japanese supplier)
292 rod was fitted to early CB500s up to 1018727. Was changed to 323 type. There are various reasons stated as to why this was done.
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Blimey, this is all getting very complicated. The standard CB500 clutch push rod was 1 piece, with two hardened ends. One end has a machined cup for the ball bearing. The other end has a machined dome to fit into the mushroom. A usual 'bodge' when the rod broke and the two broken alloy ends rubbed together and wore down, was to insert another ball bearing in the gap, which is chrome, which then wears by the rotation of the rod, into the alloy surfaces, making it look like the ball bearing had been there all the time, which it had not. This constant wearing also causes swarf which is not a good thing.We have seen broken push rods that have worn so much that there have been 2 ball bearings inserted between 2 breaks, just to make up the correct length. Pure laziness, if someone can be bothered to remove all the broken parts of the push rod and insert ball bearings to make up to the correct length so it functions effectively, why not just fit a new push rod.
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Ok confusion over. Took the clutch off today, removed broken section of rod, compared broken bits of rod with the one I got previously from Trigger.
My confusion arose out of. The fact that the shorter of my broken sections was in itself an assembly that allowed the two parts to rotate against each other but they weren’t separated, ifthat makes sense.
Anyway, Trigger’s rod is inserted now, never felt a thing, and I’m just waiting for the new cable and operating arm, can’t remember the official name, to arrive from DS, tomorrow or Thursday.
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The image shows my snapped rod with Trigger’s new one below
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Snap (literally) ;D
Here is a pic of a broken push rod that has a very similar look to yours. These look like machined ends but are not, it is just a rotational wear pattern.
[attachimg=1]
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Snap (literally) ;D
Here is a pic of a broken push rod that has a very similar look to yours. These look like machined ends but are not, it is just a rotational wear pattern.
(Attachment Link)
That's a terrible pun
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
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Snap (literally) ;D
Here is a pic of a broken push rod that has a very similar look to yours. These look like machined ends but are not, it is just a rotational wear pattern.
(Attachment Link)
That's a terrible pun
Sent from my SM-G361F using Tapatalk
That's good for me John, I'm not a Master of Puns like yourself ;D ;D
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Snap (literally) ;D
Here is a pic of a broken push rod that has a very similar look to yours. These look like machined ends but are not, it is just a rotational wear pattern.
Yes, just like mine.
It was the way the two parts, that were joined together that I removed from the left hand side, rotated against each other that I was questioning. I get it now that I’ve removed the other, longer section, from the right hand side.
The attached pick should help describe what I’m trying to say. The two pieces with red arrows, are joined and freely rotate at the yellow arrow joint.
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Does anybody know the part number for the clutch push rod seal please? I can’t find it on the cmsnl exploded drawings.
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91203-292-005 or 91203-292-003 depending on whose make it is. Both are correct, just different manufacturers.
Thanks Oddjob, much appreciated