Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 09, 2024, 02:02:26 PM
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After over a year of thinking about changing our Jeep GC I finally part exchanged her for a Euro 6 compliant Petrol mild hybrid vehicle.
Whilst reading the handbook I was stunned to find the engine oil is 0W/20 Castrol Edge - that must pour like water out of the countainer!
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I can use that in my Jazz,
Modern close tolerance motors,
For a few years, I used Mobil one 0-40 in the 500,
It really did like it,
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Most hybrids use that mate and a lot of new cars.
Mannol oil on ebay from carousel car parts is about the cheapest but it aint cheap
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FiL just bought new Toyota hybrid that's specifically 0W16 Oil as only choice.
If there's a 20 viscosity gap / tolerance when running at full temperature, then only a 20 viscosity oil will be needed to fill it, anything else going higher will simply reduce flow rate.
Tolerancing, metallurgy and manufacturing repeatability will all facilitate this if completed correctly.
The zero W is not stating a viscosity of any type either, only the 20 is true reference of that measurement. It's thicker at that 0W status than it is at 20 too :)
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I looked at a used Toyota RAV4 2.5 petrol Hybrid Auto it came a close second - I decided on the XC40 as it was not CCTV but dual clutch auto. I only cover around 3k miles s year so economy does not really enter my equation. Anything was going to be better than my thirsty Jeep 3.0 CRD.
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An odd hybrid characteristic near to me, local through road A3 we access via local roads all now at 20mph limit, going to 30mph about 400 mtrs ftom slip entry, these for local car can all be accomplished with just battery motive for many.
Get to the slip road though, traffic light start then up hill onto 3 lane 50mph carriageway, then following a hybrid sometimes gets the ICE to cut in on that slip as demand substantially increases, often with a visible output from exhaust as they start from cold to full demand straight off the bat.
They smell of sulphurrous output along with excess fuelling if following one immediately ahead.
That thin oil maybe of help then ;D
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My motor is a MPH it never drives on Electric alone ever, the Electric motor boosts the ICE performance only. Regenerative braking charges the battery. Usual stop start that I can switch off.
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Ted, ebay item 303566439357
Sometimes comes up on special offer, way cheaper than local parts suppliers, i use it in the lexus rx mate
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Thanks for the tip Bryan.👍
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Pretty sure that Volvo has a specification for the 0w20 to meet for that car beyond just 0w20.
Volvo VCC RBS0-2AE 0W-20 synthetic oil Isn’t the same as a regular 0w20 for typical Asian cars or dexos1gen2 oils
That eBay listing is misleading as the TDS sheet doesn’t include the Volvo approval. https://www.mannol.de/create-pdf/108/en
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My Volvo handbook quotes Castrol Edge 0W/20.
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Yep probably this stuff.
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/0FC452DB4251C88A802583450015AE03/$File/bpxe-anxbhg.pdf
I work in the automotive parts business specifically for the Euro, and Asian brands of cars, I spend a lot of time discussing the right fluids for my customers needs. Late model Volvo’s usually have a unique oil specification and as far as I’m aware the mild hybrids call for that RBS0-2AE specification which as seen in the graph below has different properties vs a ‘normal’ ILSAC Gf6 0w20. It has different properties than GMs latest dexos1gen3 specification as well.
I am just guessing as I don’t have year and specific model info but the xc40 mild hybrids are only a few years old now maybe 4 at the oldest I think. Maybe you got them sooner on that side of the pond.
If your car is still under warranty I’d chose an oil that has that specification, so as to ensure your using an oil that will satisfy any warranty requirements on your engine should any issues arise.
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Ted, ebay item 303566439357
Sometimes comes up on special offer, way cheaper than local parts suppliers, i use it in the lexus rx mate
Bryan, was not calling you misleading, just the eBay post as it seems to list every oe specification imaginable in the photos, I also drive a Toyota, and a modern API SP, oe ILSAC gf6 is all the Toyota’s require in terms of specification.
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FWIW the vehicle is still under Volvo warranty for another 6 months of the 3 year manufacturer warranty. It comes with a futher 1 year warranty so until that expires I will only be topping up oil. My days of home servicing are over.
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Was out at a small car meet today, there was a XC40 there Ted. In black and a good looking car. Also a blue estate (unsure of number) but some good crisp design on them within current generation of Volvo.
Quite an eclectic mix, from very early E-Type and through many others to current Lotus. Seemed like it was going to clear up but got steadily more wet with good turnout but not the usual numbers.
They do good sausage or bacon roll though as pub location getting the kitchen warmed up prior to lunch service :)
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Ted, ebay item 303566439357
Sometimes comes up on special offer, way cheaper than local parts suppliers, i use it in the lexus rx mate
Bryan, was not calling you misleading, just the eBay post as it seems to list every oe specification imaginable in the photos, I also drive a Toyota, and a modern API SP, oe ILSAC gf6 is all the Toyota’s require in terms of specification.
They are really "touchy" about specs, certainly.
I was reading of one element recently that claimed (think it was a castor product) good resistance against pre-ignition in direct injection petrol engine ! Then wondered just how much oil would be interning the combustion chamber to have such an effect, also the consumption of oil at such a level.
I know DI can give some problem with bore wear as unintentional characteristic, perhaps with more advanced mileage, but didn't realise it could get that bad :)
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Due to my age I struggle getting out of low vehicles hence a small sit up & beg style.
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It's not that long ago that only Nissan ATF suits a Nissan Automatic, Merc have to use only Merc ATF.
All a myth these days this endless list of manufacturers only ATFs.
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Ted, ebay item 303566439357
Sometimes comes up on special offer, way cheaper than local parts suppliers, i use it in the lexus rx mate
Bryan, was not calling you misleading, just the eBay post as it seems to list every oe specification imaginable in the photos, I also drive a Toyota, and a modern API SP, oe ILSAC gf6 is all the Toyota’s require in terms of specification.
They are really "touchy" about specs, certainly.
I was reading of one element recently that claimed (think it was a castor product) good resistance against pre-ignition in direct injection petrol engine ! Then wondered just how much oil would be interning the combustion chamber to have such an effect, also the consumption of oil at such a level.
I know DI can give some problem with bore wear as unintentional characteristic, perhaps with more advanced mileage, but didn't realise it could get that bad :)
I do know that some Merc Diesels that have a unique laser cut angled injector nozzle insisted on a particular low ash oil was used to minimise deposits accumulating from combustion products - this was over 10 years ago.
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Pretty sure that Volvo has a specification for the 0w20 to meet for that car beyond just 0w20.
Volvo VCC RBS0-2AE 0W-20 synthetic oil Isn’t the same as a regular 0w20 for typical Asian cars or dexos1gen2 oils
That eBay listing is misleading as the TDS sheet doesn’t include the Volvo approval. https://www.mannol.de/create-pdf/108/en
Probably all the same inside the containers - Castrol Edge list several versions of their 0W-20 oil, Professional, variants for Jaguar & others, LLiV it's a minefield of options too long to list.
As it will be for top up only if needed I will visit my local Volvo Dealer to obtain the one in the handbook VCC RB50-2AE 0W-20 Castrol Edge Professional as you have confirmed CB750r. When I check similar Edge variants they come up as unsuitable for my model. They also make a non professional version of the 0W-20 Edge. I think they will want around £18.00 for a litre - daylight robbery but until the warranty runs out I'll stick with the main dealer - luckily there are a couple of local garages that specialise in Volvo Servicing outside of the dealer network. Even Opie oils do not show any oil suitable for my VRM.
No dipstick fitted just a dashboard display checker when the engine is running.
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Staying loyal to our beloved brand on here ... I bought a new Jazz Hybrid last year and evidently it uses synthetic 0W-20 oil.
Pretty amazing MPG around town.
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Ted that graph I sent you is from of one of the worlds largest oil additive packages manufacture. That graph shows differences to the specifications, and therefore the differences in the properties of the different oils.
You can get Volvo approved oils from a few sources. I sell Motul automotive oils in Canada and they have a factory approved product as attached. I’m sure as it’s a French company you can get it.
I’m sure there are several other options.
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Ted, i think you are right in using the Volvo oil till its out of warrantee.
As you have seen its dearer to buy 1 service quantity than the 20ltr from mannol, who are a large german supplier, you could look on their website for exact correct spec then see if you can get it elswhere
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Why would you need to top up the oil on a new car Ted?
My wife’s Audi is 8 years old and I’ve never touched it.
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Why would you need to top up the oil on a new car Ted?
My wife’s Audi is 8 years old and I’ve never touched it.
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Interesting....
I have a brand new Ford Tourneo. Made by VW and the same as Caddy. Flashed up needing oil at 4k miles. Likewise my friends brand new Audi Q3 did similar. Apparently VWs can do this but then settle down.....?? Spoken to Ford on mine and told to pop it in to have it looked at. All feels a bit uncomfortable to me as likewise I thought new vehicles now us little oil. My Expert can that ive had from new does not use much...
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Could be they have been "run in" to gently,
And the rings haven't sealed
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Interesting thing about modern engines using little or no oil is often a bit of a myth in my experience especially for short journey work vehicles - this is anecdotal personal experience on my older vehicles (5-20 yrs old).
Modern synthetic oils become contaminated with sulphur based oxides that are acidic, the manufacturers add micronised chalk to neutralise the effect of the sulphur in addition other combustion products become absorbed into the oil over time replacing the actual oil used. This is worse in low mileage vehicles that often do not run at optimum temperature for many miles so also have some sump dilution from running on choke or cold start enrichment.
The dip stick level shows little or no change due to this deterioration in the oil quality as good oil is replaced by other compounds. It is when you suddenly go on a long trip say for your holidays that the oil gets hot and a lot of the water & petrol oil contaminates are effectively boiled out leading to a sudden drop in the dipstick level. Both myself & my brother have noticed this phenomena. I drove my car about 160 miles having checked my oil before departure (oil had been in place for about 5k miles) on arrival my oil had gone from full on the dipstick to the low mark. I was quite concerned - I put a litre of oil in then checked it when we returned home - it was still full.
It seems odd that an engine would use oil for a 160 mile journey then not use any on the same retrurn distance - the above is how I have interpreted the outcome. This has been my experience with several brands of used cars over the last 20 years. Going back to the 1960-1990 it was quite different as some oil consumption was the norm.
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You're probably right Ted.
The Q2 sits outside for three weeks at a time and gets used about once per month for visiting the mother-in-law (300 miles round trip)
Quite uncommon usage profile I'd imagine as we live in the town centre and walk everywhere.
5000 miles per year. 1 service per year.
I do ask myself why we own a car sometimes.
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Why would you need to top up the oil on a new car Ted?
My wife’s Audi is 8 years old and I’ve never touched it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting....
I have a brand new Ford Tourneo. Made by VW and the same as Caddy. Flashed up needing oil at 4k miles. Likewise my friends brand new Audi Q3 did similar. Apparently VWs can do this but then settle down.....?? Spoken to Ford on mine and told to pop it in to have it looked at. All feels a bit uncomfortable to me as likewise I thought new vehicles now us little oil. My Expert can that ive had from new does not use much...
Keep an eye on it and record of just what it does, it'll either get better or go to warranty :(
Generally within VAG engines there's been some historic record of oil consumption, often associated with indifferent looking after, or dubious claim at least.
Theres shift in running in however from what we would call "classic" characteristic, with many manufacturers using piston rings pre honed prior to fit as std in supply chain, with variation in metallurgy caused by adaption to low zinc type oils.
Couple this, with parsimonious fuelling and accuracy of delivering that fuel, then traditional wetting of cylinder bore from excess, consequential lubrication failure in facilitating local in engine hone condition for bore and rings, has a different look to it. Hence giving it time to "settle" is a valid route in assessing what it's going to do.
Completed well they seem to go on to complete mileage without problem. A friend with Audi A4 just sold it last year with 275,000 miles on it. A 1.9 Tdi with nothing other than cam belt and oil changes completed (we exchange tech support to help each other out ) and replacement of overrun clutch pulley on alternator.
We've an old Touran 04 plate with us from new (first as an employee company car, then bought at end of term) with 27,000 mls first oil service, 21,000 second , but now I routinely run it at 9,000 interval for oil, filter etc. Now passed 140,000 mls, doesn't use oil in between changes.
Just taken on recently a 135,000 + mls (another tech support family arrangement :) ) a V8 40V within spitting distance of 400 bhp, run on Castrol 0W 30 for it's life, smooth and quiet, hasn't yet used anything measurable, oil stays clean too and with, ahem ;D entertaining performance.
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Cheers for the normal superb technical observations.
Yes keeping an eye on things.
I had read somewhere too about lean burn engines not helping.