Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Colonial-Clive (yindi) on November 23, 2016, 03:32:45 PM
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Well I've got new point and backing plate adv-ret good but no matter what I try I cannot get it to line up on 1-4 so can't do 2-3. on full advance I am falling about 3mm short of the F Mark. So I refer to the manual and it says disconect the capacitor to static time? I have followed these instructions but still can only get same results .
The backing plate has no slack in it and on full clockwise I can only get the top screw in.
What Am I missing?
P.S any advice please explain in terms a 5 year old would understand!!!! :-\ :( ;D
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You must first set the 1-4 gap to exactly 0.35mm or 14 thou NOT 13 or 15. Then try setting the static timing with a bulb connected from the points spring to earth--NO need to disconnect capacitor.
You will find that as you rotate the plate to adjust the timing that the gap at the points will change, this makes for a frustrating half hour or so to get BOTH the gap and timing spot on.
Then you play the same game with 2-3.
Till you have done it a few times you will curse, threaten give up for tea(or a beer) but eventually you will get it right
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Bryanj have done all of that perfect on 14 thou done on 12 and 16 but it still comes up on just shy of F mark at full adjust clockwise !!!!! Pulling hair out not that there's much left.
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Well I've got new point and backing plate
Honda OEM (TEC) or imitation (Daiichi)?
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There tec points. It's got me baffled
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With all 3 backing plate screws in the case Mark falls between the 1-4 mark on the cam?
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Think I've cracked it thanks for the input it stopped me giving up!
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So what was it?
I'm sure I had something similar when I first tried to set the timing on my 400 but can't for the life of me remember what the solution was.
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Are you certain you are using the right marks. SOunds obvious but there is another line on the plate near the 1-4 text that is for the advance position. I accidentally tried to strobe time to this mark by mistake once
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This tip might be usable. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,5752.msg47539.html#msg47539
Non OEM backplates may shown more radial play than stock.
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I gave up on trying to get the timing correct and bought electronic ignition instead.
If you want to run and ride these bikes its the way to go.
20 minutes later ......Fit and forget.
I don't want to waste Saturday mornings doing points and timing life's too short.
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Fit and forget.
That ofcourse was what you always read in their advertisements. As if there was a problem... I can tell you from personal experience that you could do tens of thousands of kilometers before you need to look at them. BTW, that's the charme of Hondaman's and my transistor ignition module. In the unlikely event it breakes down, you can return to the old way within 5 minutes.
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:-[ points gap undid everything and started from scratch but I think I will get one of hondamans electric bits of kit! When the penny's allow. Wish I had the skills to make one myself but I get lost on a road map let alone trying to do electronics diagram!
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Can't understand why people still spend hours messing around with points that burn, wear, and pit. Previous CB550 had Boyer which has got electronic advance. Not sure if it was better than the DS unit I have in my current one but what I do know is they're both better than points. Fit and forget. You know it makes sense!!
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Set just right, my cb500/4 went around the clock on the standard points, I never adjusted then from when I bought it til the gearbox got so it wouldn't stay in 1st or 2nd. One of my 550k3s seemed about the same, I rebuilt it as my first ever engine job and spent ages on setting the points, never looked at em again though not such high milage, conversly I've had a couple that just would not stay running reliably and at least 1 that was as this one is described, it just seemed the points plate slots were wrong. Sorry I cannot recall if it ever ran or if I gave up, stripped the bike and bunged it in a loft and pillaged it for parts to keep anothe running - a bad habbit that has resulted in there being 18 bikes in my loft as I pillage them for parts for whatever I was commuting on.
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Can't understand why people still spend hours messing around with points that burn, wear, and pit. Previous CB550 had Boyer which has got electronic advance. Not sure if it was better than the DS unit I have in my current one but what I do know is they're both better than points. Fit and forget. You know it makes sense!!
Maybe I can help you understand. First of all: with the oldstyle ignition I have never spent 'hours'. Then, breakerpoints in combination with a transistor ignition module like Hondaman's or Velleman's, will not burn nor pit as they only switch the much lower control current and my points are approaching 60.000 kms now. But there's more: you remain in full control, can set exactly 1+4 and 2+3 as you wish and do not have to rely on the promises of the manufacturer that the rotor is a 100% accurate and does not show a built-inaccuracy of up to 2o between 1+4 and 2+3 like somebody - I believe it was either here or in the German forum - detected in a certain product. Then there's the advantage that, in the unlikely event of a breakdown*, you can switch back to oldstyle and will be riding again within 5 minutes. Then there's the unbeatable pleasure of having built, inspite of being a noob in electronics, something with deadcheap components that really works in a position where it cannot get wet or heated. But maybe the above goes only for me. BTW, I'm eager to learn the possible advantages of an electronic advance curve on a standard (!) CB500/550 but so far I have read none.
*Due to wires that were not supple and - I admit - my clumsy soldering after over 10 years I had one but experienced also the satisfaction that I was back on the road in no time.
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Delterrider it's good to hear about using transistor ignition, would you have a parts list and how to build instruction sheet you could post so any intrepid DIYer could have a go at building there own!
Clive
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Below you'll find the wiring scheme and parts list attached. I don't know if the TIP162 is still available, but I'm sure there will be similar transistors that can do the same job. Just ask in an electronics shop, they can look it up. I am a complete noob as far as electronics, but I used what we call experiment board for this and so made an imitation of this Velleman K2543, which is a much praised and very reliable transistor ignition. It's used by thousands of owners of a classic. BTW, if any of you know how to copy that printplate, he's in business as that will allow to make it more compact ofcourse than mine and then it will be dead easy for anyone to make his own. Remember you need two, one for 1+4 and one for 2+3 but you can combine the + and - wires and squeeze it all together in a box like I did. It has worked for years and years and it will again as soon as I've found time to solder the wires again that came loose by a combination of hardened wires and my clumsy soldering back then. So if possible use supple (automotive) wires, the more if you locate it where I did, behind the rubber strap that holds the battery. I damaged mine by moving it when I had to replace the battery and wires were hardened so much over the many years that some came loose.
Do not think it's too diificult. If I can do it, anyone can and it's a nice job for a winterday.
You could also buy the Velleman K2543 kit, but you'll need two (around € 32,- in total) and then still have to put it in some housing. BTW, I never bothered to mount that cooling fin which is an exageration. Bottom and lid of my aluminium box proved to cool the transistor enough and the thing never broke down. I just have to solder the wires again. The K2543 itself is extremely reliable. For more info in English: http://www.velleman.eu/downloads/0/illustrated/illustrated_assembly_manual_k2543.pdf
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And here is a picture of mine opened up. Note that there are two ofcourse and that I use the bottom and the lid of the aluminium box as a 'cooling fin' for the power transistor. It proved to be enough. The module has never let me down. I was helped by that I had made an original K2543 kit before, for my car. The guy that bought my car afterwards, drove it all the way through Europe and the Sahara desert to western Africa where practically all Peugeots 504 (what a car!) would go. It never missed a beat. But even if it had, he could have restored the old set up in five minutes like I did with my bike when I tored the wires loose. What I also like, is that it nicely fits behind the right sidepanel, high and dry and not behind the ignition cover at the breakerpoints plate where it's hot and can get wet.
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Delta rider thanks for that but I think it's a step to far on the head scatch omiter for me but I have saved it and will keep reading.
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I've got OEM Honda points in my 550 and 500 presumably the originals, I've owned my 500 for 32 years and 550 a little less, they just work, I checked them when I bought the bikes and not touched them since.
I bought some CB900 CDI's and pick up coils to fit to my 500 about 15 years ago but never got round to it, is there any reason they could not be used?
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Deltarider thanks for that but I think it's a step to far on the head scatch omiter for me
Then Hondaman's ignition box is reasonably priced, considered it has wires fitted in the right colors and length. BTW, people that know little about electricity tend to project all kinds of ideal properties in an electronic ignition, but one look at it's place in a battery-coil ignition like we all have, tells you it's basically nothing but a switch.
I bought some CB900 CDI's and pick up coils to fit to my 500 about 15 years ago but never got round to it, is there any reason they could not be used?
I am not sure but I seem to remember CDI's discharge a very high voltage extremely shortly where a transistor ignition delivers it's energy over a longer period, so if the peak has missed to ignite for some reason, it will still have reserves for extra attempts. This all happens within milliseconds ofcourse. There's a vid somewhere on the internet that shows in slow motion what actually takes place when the plug sparks in the combustion chamber.
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Have to agree that fitting 2 sets of points takes me about 30 mins once a year, the worst bit is the crappy cork gasket
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the worst bit is the crappy cork gasket
True, anyone that can recommend a (removable) sealant from a tube?
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I never use a gasket, never any water in there and my 500 is my winter bike. I don't have a car so it gets some miles in.
If I do use sealant it simply clear silicon sealant, peals off easily when you need it to.
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I never use a gasket, never any water in there
My experience is contrary be it only once and decades ago. Quite suddenly timing was of. After I had removed the cover I could see all the grease was gone due to the mist of rain I had had and breakerheels were worn enough to change the timing. So IMO it's better to use a gasket. You could cut your own from a sheet of neoprene or use a sealant.
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Got a soft rubber gasket in my 750 but no idea where it came from. I think it must have been in a gasket set but can't remember. If I have one somebody must be making them, will have a search as they are pretty good.
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If I have one somebody must be making them, will have a search as they are pretty good.
Yes, please inform us.
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I never had a cork gasket leak in 10 years all year round use. I did re use them, and when doing that would often smear a bit of silicon gaskett goo around the inside lip of the cover then put the gasket on top.