Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: royhall on May 06, 2015, 06:37:16 PM
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Just took delivery of the new exhausts for the 350F project from CMS. Not cheap at £780 but the only way to do the project right. Opened the box in excited anticipation to find that the quality is absolutely dreadful. Have posted some pictures of the welds to show what I mean. These are completely unusable and should have been sent to the scrap bin not the chromers. What are CMS like for getting a refund. Cheers
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CMSNL need to see your pictures. They will send you another set out or refund. They can not look in every box and there customer care is excellent.
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I fully agree with you Trigger. It's the people making this junk that should be ashamed of themselves, not even an attempt to dress the welds before chroming. Nobody would want these on their bikes. Have sent pictures to CMS about it, but I think all the stock will be like this. Had some a month ago from DSS just the same and they have pulled the entire stock. Don't know where to try for exhausts next, lost trust in them now.
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I fully agree with you Trigger. It's the people making this junk that should be ashamed of themselves, not even an attempt to dress the welds before chroming. Nobody would want these on their bikes. Have sent pictures to CMS about it, but I think all the stock will be like this. Had some a month ago from DSS just the same and they have pulled the entire stock. Don't know where to try for exhausts next, lost trust in them now.
I think james has a NOS set. May have sold them by now but, worth a message or a phone call.
Just been on to James and he sold them to a forum member not long ago.
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see what you mean not good but never had a problem with them for returns
Cheers
Bitsa
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Sorry roy tiny tim got mine I'm afraid....
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Wow, that's shocking Roy.
Hope you get a decent set of replacements from them.
How's it going with the 350 apart from that?
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What a bummer Roy. Are they made in Japan and double skinned headers? We are so lucky with the Yamiya CB750 ones being double skinned as I gather the Kawasaki Z1 Doremi ones are only single skin.
Let us know how you get on with CMS on returns.
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I am shocked that in this day and age such bad workmanship is slipping the net
pete
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Had a good look over them and the standard is dreadful. Double skinned Ash, crikey there barely single skinned. The tubes are necked down on the bends, the polishings not done on the difficult bits before chroming, the welds where the pipes meet the silencer are bird s**t. The four pictures don't do justice to just how truly awful these things are. They are just scrap, I'd rather have a 4 into 1 than this.
I missed a second set of NOS pipes just after James sold his (Tim you lucky lucky person) so I ordered some from DSS. They were just the same as the CMS ones so DSS (top guys)ended up pulling the entire stock off the shelves. I notice their back again though, maybe I will give them a ring and see if they found some good ones. Emailed a guy In the States that has some on eBay, he wasn't happy to find he was selling the same junk. All the secondhand pipes that have been on eBay for the past 2 months are just rotted out junk as well.
Am a bit disillusioned now as after the 750F2 , where I discovered exhausts were non existant, I was going to do a 400/4. But as exhausts were readily available I preferred the 350/4. It's beginning to look like I going to end up with a concourse bike with a 4 into1. Waste of money I think. I already have a concourse 750 with an aftermarket exhaust but at least it was designed with a 4 into 1.
Just feel like shutting the garage door and giving up. Although I probably wont.
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Roy keep going mate, these things have a habit of turning round...I sourced mine from Germany (Andy Cepok) - may be worth dropping him a line to see what he still has in stock? Obviously explain the quality issues you've had with DSS and CMSNL....
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/06/e2ebd93124fc447eda6a4acd7e4a87b3.jpg)
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It's a real pity that Yamiya don't extend the range they do. They are not even planning to remake 400/4 pipes but they must have good manufacturing contacts, possibly with the OEM suppliers to Honda (Sankei etc. ). Anyone remember how long ago it is since Honda discontinued supply of 400/4 exhausts? What I did with my CB250K0 was source a pair of NOS Genuine Honda pipes and THEN buy a bike to restore.
BTW Roy ... my 'man' is on with analyzing the rubber from the aftermarket F2 carb rubbers and says he will have an answer tomorrow for us, after I chased him up on it.
Will post this in the correct thread but he says it may be beneficial to post cure the softened ones in an oven at the maximum temperature they would see in service? Can anyone suggest a temperature or in a position to measure it on a hot engine?
Ash
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Cheers Ash. That's maybe why they went softer on the engine side after a few heat cycles?
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I am glad i hoarded when i did, i have a NOS F2 exhaust, and NOS F2 carb rubbers, i wonder what they would fetch on fleabay
The 350 pipes sound like a nightmare, as demand becomes high for these rare parts amater firms are supplying the market with bad quality, i would have thought DS and CMS had stricter checks before they stock these parts, the for stanchions ds sells for the 750 KO are not much cop neither as you have to do machining to make them fit
pete
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I think they must have had a bad batch as if you look on the DSS USA site they are also offering factory seconds at a reduced price, these are not listed on the UK site.
Just about to order a set from DSS UK and i hope they are not like you received, which i suspect are the factory seconds.
Kevin
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Be careful. DSS UK were also selling factory seconds, when I sent mine back they checked the stock and said they were all as bad as the seconds. These exhausts are only just back on DSS after they pulled the entire stock. Let me know how you go on, if you get good ones I will be in like a shot.
Pete. Can I register my first dibs on the NOS F2 zorst should you decide to move it on. It will be cosseted in a warm dry central heated garage. I may even go as far as sitting and talking nicely to it.
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Roy i have acknowledged your interest, i have been building up enough parts to build a cracking F2, i have lots of NOS parts, nearly all the chrome work NOS,
i have just about everything to build up a bloody good F2 now, however they are still not fetching what i think they are worth as complete bikes, they seem to make more as spares, so at some stage i will have to decide build it, or sell its parts TBH the chances of me ever building it are slim, but to me its like treasure , and i find it hard to let go of
pete
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Just had CMS on the phone. They have looked at the pictures and were horrified. RMA sent out and return UPS label without hesitation. They are going to get the warehouse guys to get the whole stock out (apparently they have got loads) and check them all. Unless they are all rubbish, they are going to pick out the 4 best and send them out. If they are all crap they will refund no questions asked. Very helpfull chap, top company. Now if only the clowns that have just sold me a dodgy shower were as good.
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Sounds like some positive progress Roy, hopefully they come up with a decent set for you.
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Wonder if 'coastpath' on eBay will be listing the rejects ;)
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Good result Roy - have to say I'm impressed with CMS's response.
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You will get a result from CMS one way or another. They do not like being kicked, and have a very good customer service. Not like the English parts supplier that started arguing down the phone to me when i informed them that there superseded part was wrong David ;D ;D
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Sent the exhaust back to CMS and got this reply today "We received the muffler set. We will have to check our complete stock. We will inform you with our outcome" So am hopeful.
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How's the rest of the parts search going?
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Pretty much got the things I need now, just missing the headlamp rim (will have to stump up for new from DSS) and the exhausts. The big job I'm really not looking forward to is the wheel building. Did you get a result with you wheel rims. Cheers Roy.
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Not sorted out any rims just yet, but there is no rush.
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Well I'm back at the start with the exhausts. CMS have finally got back to me, they have checked the stock and they are all crap. So they are going to refund the money. That's all well and good, but where do I go now to get a good set on 4 into 4 exhausts? Wemoto have some, so I will maybe ring them and get them to check there stock as well. You never know they may have a set that are worth buying.
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Maybe James could pop into Wemoto and check them out for you?
Steve
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Hi Roy - happy to pop into wemoto for you if you can pre-warn them. I'm on my way back from Greece now, back in circulation on Thursday...J
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Roy - this is the guy I bought my set that TT had - has one set in stock...
http://m.ebay.de/itm/291473271967?nav=SEARCH
Think with the euro as it is that works out about £850 delivered...
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I can certainly vouch for the quality of the exhaust from the guy James recommends.
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Superb that James. The last set of Sankei the guy reckons. Cost me £880 (ouch) with the Paypal conversion rate. £110 more than CMS but these are the real thing so definitely worth it. And I hope, they will have nice smooth welds instead of saw teeth.
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Roy - this is the guy I bought my set that TT had - has one set in stock...
http://m.ebay.de/itm/291473271967?nav=SEARCH
Think with the euro as it is that works out about £850 delivered...
wow,just checked the site,they have NOS HM323's at only 2,800 euro !!! a set
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Happy to help Roy, glad you snagged them!
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Hi Roy - happy to pop into wemoto for you if you can pre-warn them. I'm on my way back from Greece now, back in circulation on Thursday...J
Holiday,holiday ? You should not have time for these kind of luxury's ;)
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Three Kids and a wife demand it Graham - me I'd rather lock myself in a garage for a week and play with the Hondas but there you go...
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Full refund from CMS no hassle at all. ;D Got charged £22.16p by NatWest for a non Sterling transaction though. Robbing set of B*****ds. Leave me alone and go and rig some Libor rates or something useful. >:(
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The latest exhausts have just arrived from AC-Motorradteile (Germany). As soon as I saw the box my heart sank. Its got the CMS logo with the CMS name roughly scraped off. I think you know where this is going. This is what they are listing http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-350-Four-Auspuffanlage-Auspuff-4-4-Exhaust-Muffler-System-Sankei-New-/291477666989? (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB-350-Four-Auspuffanlage-Auspuff-4-4-Exhaust-Muffler-System-Sankei-New-/291477666989?) Just check the seam weld in the fourth picture.
[attach=1]
Opened all four boxes within and guess what, same old crap just more expensive.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Is it me expecting too much from a set of exhausts at £880, or could they have bought a £30 angle grinder and done something with this garbage before its chromed. Needless to say this junk is going back as well, wasted £60 on postage now (nearer £100 now with exchange rate charges), this is past a joke.
There's a good set of 4 into 2 available for this bike, I think that's the way to go as everybody is selling the same thing. Have these suppliers not got any standards, they should be bleedin ashamed of themselves selling high priced scrap like this. And misrepresenting like that is just below slime.
And as for CMS being a top supplier, although they have been through the entire stock and could not find any good ones, they are still for sale without a mention of the crap welds. Same with DSS. Absolutely criminal behaviour. These should all be sent back to the manufacturer, and if it puts them out of business, then thank heavens for that.
Buyer beware of these unscrupulous b******s.
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Well there you go I think I have said all there is to say about pattern parts but today not alot of choice left
Keep looking and who knows what may turn up
Cheers
Bitsa
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To be honest Bitsa I'm not expecting the world from pattern parts, It's the dishonesty and misrepresentation that's got me. Criminal behaviour. I know you cant open every box but when you have been told and you have checked all your stock, and then you carry on selling them as if it doesn't matter. That's a bad company if ever I saw one. And the German guy using an old picture, and actually saying in the text that "you get what is in the picture" Unbelievable.
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Agree with you but they think you have no choice and will settle for expensive crap
Cheers
Bitsa
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Scary thing about it all is the fact they were made by Sankei, who made the original pipes fitted to most Hondas of the 70's and 80's. If that is the standard of work from oem suppliers these days. the future is certainly bleak, I don't own any modern Hondas, are the modern pipes on current bikes as badly made/finished?
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Not really. I have a CB1300, my mates have CB1000R and Fireblades. The standard of the exhausts on these is superb. Don't know if Sankei are still the same company as back then, May have been sold out a few times. One things for sure, they are just trading on a name. And with products like that should be forced into bankruptcy. Can you tell yet that I am a bit pi***d off with these exhausts. :D
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I understand completely Roy! Maybe it would be worth offering cms or someone a cheeky offer for a set. say £100 or so. and clean the welds yourself and then get them rechromed? A lot of hassle agreed, but point out that they are no better than factory rejects in reality, they might go for it.O:)
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Strangely enough, I considered doing that. You could probably get away with just the top two welds as the rest are out of site.
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Strangely enough, I considered doing that. You could probably get away with just the top two welds as the rest are out of site.
Feel for you Roy. What a POS.
Bet they end up with coastpath500 on eBay UK (see link below). There is a definite link with him and CMS and his large stuff is shipped direct from a warehouse in Holland. Anyone know the relationship.
Why not contact Sankei and cut out the middleman on the quality issue. http://www.sankei-gk.co.jp/global/p_04.html
I have a new found friend who is currently sourcing rare parts in Japan for me . He is originally from the UK but his wife is Japanese, so she would do a proper translated letter /email for you, if I ask nicely. We could also ask about 400/4 original downpipes repro as my new set are marked Sankei and were in genuine Honda packaging, when I bought them, yonks ago
http://www.sankei-gk.co.jp/global/p_04.html
How about trying to get them supplied unchromed (this is what I did with the guy in Vietnam who supplied my 750K0 double cut front fender/mudguard?
The chromer i used quoted me 125 GBP for re-chroming a used but solid welded together silencer /downpipe for my CB250K but that included a months hot soak in caustic plus removal of the old plating
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB750-K1-to-K6-right-upper-reproduction-exhaust-new-un-chromed-no-baffle-/251983130023?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aab5d6da7
Ash
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Looks like the latest system is going back. At least I can get my money back. Just need an exhaust now, have given up on the Sankei's they are all the same. Will look for something else.
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The third (and final) Sankei system is on its way back to Germany as I write this. For a full refund hopefully. That money has been doing the rounds a fair bit in the last few weeks. All is not lost though, when I got home a big box was waiting behind the gate:
[attach=1]
Whats inside is not a genuine Sankei but a 4 into 4 Italian MIVV system. Opened all the packets straight away to check for the usual quality issues, and there are non. In fact it is very well made with deep lustrous chrome, and the header pipes are double skinned to past the lower bend.
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
The silencers are a conical megaphone shape that looks pretty good fitted to the bike (only seen pictures so far). Looks like a result, and although not original are way better made. Very happy with them in all. In the next picture, this is how to weld a seam Sankei.
[attach=4]
I think they actually look better than the real things. Not sure if these systems are still being made, so may have just dropped lucky here. And they are £250 cheaper than the Sankei's. The last picture is off Google. My 350 is still in a million pieces, but not for long as I'm spurred on now the exhaust hassle is nearly over. Just a small matter of £880 to be returned please. ;D ;D
[attach=5]
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excellent and look good too well done
Cheers
Bitsa
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Glad you finally got a result after all that aggro. Keep us posted as to how well the italian chrome lasts (or not from past experience!) Looking forward to seeing this one together, seen very few 350fours on here.
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Yeah I wondered about the chrome too. But at the price if it starts to go I can get them redone. Not much choice if you want 4 into 4.
Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk
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Nice one Roy.
Your perseverance has paid off.
Should have my wheels back early next week, the polishing took a little longer.
Paul at PW Wheels is carrying out the rebuild, his number is 07986965343 if you wanted to call him.
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Thanks Tim. I may give him a ring, whereabouts is he? If you don't mind me asking, what is he charging for two wheels to be built. Did you supply the rims and the spokes, or just the rims. Cheers Roy.
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I got my rims from David at Saisei.
Paul supplies all the Stainless steel spokes and nipples + building for £210.
He is in Herne Bay, Kent.
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Are they stainless spokes Tim? Looking forward to some pictures.
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Yes he is using stainless steel spokes.