Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => Other Bikes => Topic started by: ffoy on March 07, 2017, 10:17:41 AM
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Hi guys.
Quick backstory here. My then girlfriend's daughter went very quickly from being a non-rider to a Yamaha 600 rider. She was only 17 or something when she embarked on this. Think it was less than a year later she was on the 'big' Yamaha.
Anyway. To start off she bought a 125 locally. Being experienced with bikes (ie have had loads in bits for 30 years and never even sat CBT) I was asked to give it the once-over.
I didn't know anything about the bike but it seemed modern to me (ie wasn't behind a shed rusting to bits) and I had a quick spin on it. She (well her Mum) coughed up £600 for it which seemed quite high to me and that was it. Well not quite. It sat idle for months while she passed test and I had to revive it once she was road-legal as it wouldn't start.
It wasn't great cosmetically having had the typical budget re-spray: Non-standard colour with an attempt at decals. The engine also had some shiny black paint on it. Not very well done.
So while she had it the only repairs I recall doing were: re-welding frame at centre-stand pivot as she got caught out by stand flapping loose one horrible winter night; making a side-stand from Honda parts (CM185 iirc); replacing speedo cable; swapping clocks-pod after she'd had a bump.
Next incident was she had a big bump and bent the front forks so Francis, as she called him, was retired to the base of the local bikers' club that she and her fiance were members of. Despite their collective wealth and knowledge of bikes no-one managed to get Francis mobile again and he was shifted to my barn to be resurrected.
Not long after that her mother and I split up and some time later he was retrieved by the owner and her man in a hired van.
So the rebuild never really got off the ground but I always wondered what would happen with it.
Well fast-fwd a couple or three years and the young couple are now married and off to live in NZ (possibly) so had to have a major clear-out and donated Francis back to me, along with a pile of parts she'd bought to rebuild him.
I picked him up on an old trailer I have and hope to get him roadworthy and perhaps re-spray the 'tinware'
I've got loads of pics from various stages of the story above but prob best to start with the ones of the day I collected it.
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/DSCF6753_zpsft7co1xf.jpg)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/DSCF6754_zpsn5nv76lr.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/DSCF6754_zpsn5nv76lr.jpg.html)
Francis returns to my barn after owner gives up on him
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>:(
Just spent over half an hour writing up post about front forks and closed tab by mistake. no auto-save on this forum so everything lost. I'm not writing it again so pics will have to do
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000601_zpsnayua0al.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000601_zpsnayua0al.jpg.html)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000602_zpsjqwpvdye.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000602_zpsjqwpvdye.jpg.html)
Francis's forks are definitely bent altho the pics doesn't really show it. rusty too
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000603_zpsmung3gmd.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000603_zpsmung3gmd.jpg.html)
there were a pair of better forks included in the project-bundle
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000607_zpskiyhj6me.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000607_zpskiyhj6me.jpg.html)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000609_zpslcrzsny4.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000609_zpslcrzsny4.jpg.html)
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000612_zpsi6u2aan9.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000612_zpsi6u2aan9.jpg.html)
sticker on fork-bottoms show same number KC1 003 but castings show KC1 L & KC1 R
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000616_zpsr8n22sad.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000616_zpsr8n22sad.jpg.html)
original fork-bottom on LHS looks like it doesn't have the sticker but it is there under hastily-applied silver paint
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000617_zpsjfnszbfv.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000617_zpsjfnszbfv.jpg.html)
not sure this wadding found under cover is OEM. maybe put there to hide weeping seal for MOT...
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000619_zpsyxieuhqe.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000619_zpsyxieuhqe.jpg.html)
when fork-cap is unscrewed it pops off due to spring tension but not enough to cause injury
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000621_zpsn5qzkrjj.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000621_zpsn5qzkrjj.jpg.html)
damper assy at bottom of stanchion can be removed from top once the part at the bottom is taken off
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Hello mate, could you take the measures from the front fork decals?
If you do it, I will send a pair free for you ;)
Best Regards.
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Autosave is a long overdue feature and is available in V2.1 which is in beta test at the moment.
I agree that it will be very useful, having had exactly this problem myself many times over the years.
Steve
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that looks like you have been working hard !!
carry on !!!
but at 3am ???
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Hello mate, could you take the measures from the front fork decals?
If you do it, I will send a pair free for you ;)
Best Regards.
Yes no problem Piki. Or I could peel one off and send you it...
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Autosave is a long overdue feature and is available in V2.1 which is in beta test at the moment.
I agree that it will be very useful, having had exactly this problem myself many times over the years.
Steve
Hi SteveD. I use quite a few forums and the majority don't have it so I should have posted chunks as I went along then added to it but there are a few forums where you only have a really short edit-window and as I'm new to this one wasn't sure if that was the case. Anyway now a day has passed I see I can edit no problem so will add to the original post but yeah good tip is to post then add to it if writing a lot of stuff :-\
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that looks like you have been working hard !!
carry on !!!
but at 3am ???
Lol. Well it was about midnight I finished up. Had a day off and went to the barn in afternoon to address a few hundred overdue tasks. Got there to find the electricity had ran out and the top-up key was at home so 4 miles home and 4 back I eventually got started. Spent daylight putting up fascia-boards on the gable end to stop Swifts nesting there (they are due back any day now!) then inside to start on Francis. Had no plans to stay as long and when I left to go home the car was iced-up but I quite enjoyed my time there. I only had 2 t-shirts and 3 jackets on to keep warm ::)
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If its going to be a long post, I write it in a word processor then copy and paste it into the forum. I can also use spell check that way as it doesn't work for me on the forum anymore. It used to but stopped working after Steve did an update ages ago. All I get is a blank pop up box.
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The edit window is 15 minutes so better to post and then edit if you get anywhere near that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I've still got the 'modify' button on my post from March 7th. Need to change an of to an off actually
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Ok. Now I'll try and flesh-out the post I made the other night....
So the forks are clearly bent on the bike but Hannah (previous owner, looks terrible referring to her as 'she' in every other line :-[ ) bought a good used pair a while ago and these were included in the bundle I trailered away. Still to get the keys and V5 actually :-\
Even tho the 'new' forks are pretty good they do have rust specks on the stanchions so should really be sent away for hard-chroming. This costs around £200, once you've factored-in P&P both ways. Now the first thing I really want to do here is get the machine up & running so putting on straight forks is a good starting-point but that means they need to come back off again later if they are to be re-chromed. I could perhaps send the original stanchions away to be done but I'm not sure if they can be straightened by the company doing the chroming, or if they can even be straightened at all. However a glimpse at John Webley's RD125 thread showed something about forks getting straightened so I'll need to have a better look at that.
What ever the case I decided to remove and strip-down the originals....
This was pretty straightforward compared to when I tackled the forks on my 1976 RD250C. Main difference is that although the arrangement for securing the damper to the fork-bottom looks the same from outside it's not.
Both have a recessed Allen-headed (6mm) screw under the leg. On the RD250 when you turn this the damper assy spins round inside the leg so you need to knock-up a tool to hold the invisible part still. On the CB I just used the long leg of an Allen key as I didn't have a long bit for my ratchet. The screw is pretty tight so I put the key in vice and turned the leg.
Moving back up the leg you can prise out the rubber 'cover' that sits in the alloy outer- tube. I was surprised to find wadding under this.
Anyway once the damper assy is no longer fixed to the fork tube you can pull it out and then tackle the actual fork seal.
There are all sorts of views on this online. One guy on YouTube actually jacked the seal out by filling the leg with oil and leaving the stanchion in. He nearly wrecked his shed in the process but it's an entertaining video.
Some say using the stanchion like a slide-hammer will pull the seal out but I don't see how this would work on the CB as the stanchion and damper just pull out together.
To get the damper out the stanchion you remove the top-cap from the stanchion revealing the spring and once that's out the way the damper will slide out too but you need to take off the little alloy piece at bottom. This will fall off anyway unless you put the screw back in for safe-keeping.
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My favourite tool for removing fork seals is a large flat bladed screwdriver with a piece of rubber hose over the shaft and then just work your way round levering it out.
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Hi Green1.
Yes that method is great if they aren't stubborn but if they don't come out relatively easily it's wise to back off and try something else as you can soon end up cracking the thin-walled lip of the alloy fork-leg around the seal.
Quite by chance I found a good tool to lever them out which didn't bear on the leg at all. The front of the tool hooked under the casing of the seal and the heel of it rested on the opposite side of the seal. Worked well for me on my RD250C but didn't have any luck with it the other night on the CB.
The problem seems to be that the underside of the seal-casing is curved (like a bearing race) and the tool isn't getting any purchase.
So today I'm going to try heat to expand the alloy then pop the seal out. I read somewhere that a heat gun or boiling water can be sufficient to do this.
(http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/foy9999/bikes/Yamaha%20RD250/DSC00492.jpg) (http://s731.photobucket.com/user/foy9999/media/bikes/Yamaha%20RD250/DSC00492.jpg.html)
leg of my home-made clutch-holding tool turned out to be ideal for popping out fork seals on RD250C
(http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/foy9999/bikes/Yamaha%20RD250/DSC00493.jpg) (http://s731.photobucket.com/user/foy9999/media/bikes/Yamaha%20RD250/DSC00493.jpg.html)
seal-casing is flat underneath so tool gets a grip once rubber is cut away
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I couldn't get the seals out when replacing them on my 400/4.
Someone on here suggested a heat gun and it worked a treat for me, they came out easily then.
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Heat evenly till the seals smoke and they'll pop out easily - even the ones where a PO has used stud lock or similar on them.
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Well the heat, or more specifically, hot water worked a treat :D
I didn't think it would help that much as despite being the best day of the year (17 degrees!!) there was a chilly wind and it would dissipate the heat of the water as soon as it hit the cold air.
I started with the seal I'd wrestled with the night before. Stood the leg up in vice. Poured boiled water on and levered with my improvised tool and out it popped ;D You can see from the pic of the rear-face how much damaged it was trying to remove it cold.
So bouyed by this success I started stripping the other leg and as the screw in the bottom (holding damper assy) was proving tight to budge poured some hot water on the alloy leg and it then yielded. Not sure the water did that tho.
Anyway whilst I separated the damper & spring from the stanchion I left the leg upside down in some newly-boiled water then tried popping the seal without even scraping away the corrosion or putting any penetrating fluid on it and it came out no problem.
I'm therefore convinced this is the key to getting fork-seals out of alloy legs :D
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000758_zpse3uwkmhs.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000758_zpse3uwkmhs.jpg.html)
aftermath of light wresting-match with cold seal
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000759_zps4ylcwzo6.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000759_zps4ylcwzo6.jpg.html)
same seal popped out easily after pouring boiled water on
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000760_zpsmksvpxfx.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000760_zpsmksvpxfx.jpg.html)
underside of seal shows more evidence of struggle. I have still to examine cross-section but it felt concave rather than right-angled
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000762_zpsrfde6wyi.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000762_zpsrfde6wyi.jpg.html)
now to tackle leg #2. bent stanchion is clear in this pic
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P10007631_zpsfyulthxv.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P10007631_zpsfyulthxv.jpg.html)
mark on dust-cover suggest someone has been here before
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000764_zpsa11z6c4i.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000764_zpsa11z6c4i.jpg.html)
prising cover off reveals wadding again. this doesn't appear in parts list but there is something that goes in there apparently
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000765_zps3yswsrby.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000765_zps3yswsrby.jpg.html)
retaining clip comes out easily
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000769_zpslscpttgo.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000769_zpslscpttgo.jpg.html)
Allen key not ideal but without suitable bit for socket-set had to do. held in vice and leg turned for max leverage
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000770_zpsnymnfyxj.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000770_zpsnymnfyxj.jpg.html)
once screw is removed stanchion and damper pull out top of fork leg
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000772_zpsnw0t5tbg.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000772_zpsnw0t5tbg.jpg.html)
not a good picture but there was definitely some sort of locking-compound on the screw
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000768_zpshadguile.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000768_zpshadguile.jpg.html)
I like date stamps and casting marks. pretty sure this & means 1987 as the other fork legs I have show 5 which would be 1985
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000771_zpsfi1ad1iw.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000771_zpsfi1ad1iw.jpg.html)
this leg was sat in boiled water for a while. seal popped out easily with practically no damage
(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a577/ffoxy99/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000776_zps2x2nc6pt.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/ffoxy99/media/Honda%20CB125TD/P1000776_zps2x2nc6pt.jpg.html)
next important issue to address is leaking fuel tank
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Way back when, we found the most common reason for a replaced seal leaking was damage to the inside of the hole where the old seal was prised out. careful dressing and a small amount of rtv cured about 85% of them
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Way back when, we found the most common reason for a replaced seal leaking was damage to the inside of the hole where the old seal was prised out. careful dressing and a small amount of rtv cured about 85% of them
Cheers Bryanj. Hopefully won't need that but good to know.
Anyway I shouldn't really be posting tonight as no real progress made this week. However...
I planned to polish the wheels this week and thought it would be difficult to get a good finish. or some reason I thought they would be anodised or have a lacquer on them and be corroded in some places but not others so maybe not get uniform finish.
Well I did about 1/4 of one side of the front wheel with Solvol Autosol and was blown away by the result. Seems like bare alloy and polishes up lovely with very little effort.
Am looking fwd to doing them first day off I get.
Incidentally. These wheels seem to be selling for about £120 each on Ebay.
They must be in demand for use on other machines as there seems to be a disproportionate amount of CB125 TDC/TDE wheels listed for sale on their own. Also other parts for these bikes don't command high prices.
I've also not seen any TDCs/TDEs with different wheels (although the TDJ came from factory with a different type) so ppl might actually just be breaking the bikes to sell the wheels :-\
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So I got the wheel polished today. Could've/should've got more done but got offered the wonderful opportunity to make a few bob taking rust off metal tubing that forms the cages in kennels next to where I rent my workspace then painting it in Jotun Conseal. The rust was so bad it seemed pointless but piqued my interest for two reasons....
Firstly - the frame of this bike will need some tarting-up and I've been down the powdercoat route too many times now that I fancy a more basic approach on this one. I've always believed the only way to strip rust permanently from steel is by blasting or chemical dipping but I used one of those wire twist cup things today that goes on the thread of your angle grinder.
I reckon it will do a decent job of prepping Francis for some new black gloss. I've also got good black coachpaint and proper thinners for it and synthetic enamel (the posh name for tractor paint) looks really good sprayed imo. So we'll see how it goes.
The other reason is the Jotun paint I was using specifies using a dedicated thinner (Jotun No. 7) which I didn't have but Googled tonight. It says it's for acrylic paints and I've been looking for acrylic thinners for some time (loong story) so that was interesting.
Anyway. Here's the front wheel. Am thinking mb the previous owner(s) polished these regularly as they are in vgc and there seems to be traces of old polish in the joints. It's nice when something is easy to do after so many grimy jobs
(http://i.imgur.com/JsnfcTJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bl1Z4ZF.jpg)
Comstar wheel. before
(http://i.imgur.com/sL0iZY2.jpg)
and after quick polish. brake disc needs cleaning-up
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Not a huge update really but at least it's varied.
I picked up a NOS dust-seal for the forks. This isn't the actual oil seal rather the part which sits on top of the fork-bottom. Not much good having only one but it was cheap and will encourage me to look for another. They seem to be a bit thin on the ground actually but it's not a major issue as I don't think the originals I have are in bad condition.
Often with parts like oil seals you can establish the spec of the part and buy a part it cheaper direct from bearing-supplier or similar. As opposed to buying it in a Yamaha/Honda/Kawasuki wrapper. The markings on the seal are NOK BR1791E. I can find NOK seals but not this specific type so will need to search for a Honda one.
Next up is a front-brake M/C with lever etc that I got on Ebay for 99p plus £5.00 P&P. Again I'm not sure if I actually need it but at that price it was too good to pass up on. Also with my RD250 the M/C was a major stumbling-block in the resto as the rebuild kits were expensive and used units are going for crazy prices when they were probably worth nothing 10 years ago. I think it will go the same way with the 125 Superdream.
Lastly. Fuel tank sealer. There is a hole in the tank and I was waiting on having a spare £20 or so to buy a tin of POR-15 (great stuff) to sort the leak before I re-spray it. I got a bit of a fright when I went into my watch-list on Ebay and the item had increased in price from around £20 to £120. I quickly bought a tin from France for £25 inc P&P. Now I've bought loads of the Quart size tins over the last couple of decades but never the half-pint. It's tiny! Can't believe ppl actually paid over £100 for it :o
(http://i.imgur.com/6Xd9RPc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jj8jfv7.jpg)
NOS fork dust seal. brand is NOK but looks like it is specific to this machine only
(http://i.imgur.com/ei9ifEB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IpZzlJI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LFtTqfS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DWdOKG1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pFQfnPY.jpg)
Ebay yields 2nd-hand front brake M/C for 99p
(http://i.imgur.com/Cesp677.jpg)
very small tin of POR 15. Ebay 'sold listings' shows these have sold for over £100. this was £14 plus £10 P&P
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Ok, so I got my tin of sealer and then finally got a couple of days off. After having a major tidy up in the barn (to focus my mind) I finally turned to Francis.
I expected there to be a problem with the tank other than the fact that it leaked as the previous owner (Hannah) had told me there was 'white paint stuff' in the tank. She'd been told this by a mechanic or someone who was tasked with sorting out some problem with the fuel supply from the tap. Can't remember exactly what but it ended up with a car fuel filter tie-wrapped onto the carb and some convoluted hoses.
So I whipped the tank off, which is easy on these bikes as there's no balance pipe, and immediately heard something knocking around inside it. It was the white paint stuff. I'd expected to have to dissolve it, with paint thinners perhaps, but after sitting unused for a long time it had cleanly separated from the tank, which looks pretty clean inside too.
So all I needed to do was shake it out the filler-hole....
Not so easy - for a couple of reasons: some of the lumps are too big but worse than that the filler-hole has a collar inside which almost reaches the top of the tunnel-pressing opposite. I found I could shake some out by revolving the tank - on its fore and aft axis - but for the bigger bits I had to wait till they appeared on top of the collar with tank upside down then press them against the tunnel bit and cut them with chisels. It's gonna take a while lol
(http://i.imgur.com/ppw5IUg.jpg)
one scruffy little machine
(http://i.imgur.com/9abSmWH.jpg)
area around centre-stand particularly scruffy
(http://i.imgur.com/PB0ZjDY.jpg)
disappointed at state of sidestand that I lovingly fitted to bike and was painted in Glasurit epoxy primer with enamel topcoat
(http://i.imgur.com/Q0GFBIP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KwnEpZO.jpg)
take these off to remove tank
(http://i.imgur.com/4Qzl6Nw.jpg)
after removing sidepanels as they clip into tank
(http://i.imgur.com/cQf2PRy.jpg)
this screw was unexpectedly tight and corroded
(http://i.imgur.com/tIozkQR.jpg)
sidepanel lugs are thankfully intact
(http://i.imgur.com/OtGwDAE.jpg)
person who fitted all this also told owner about white 'paint' inside tank
(http://i.imgur.com/NyMOFMa.jpg)
and it has came off in large lumps which won't come out filler-hole
(http://i.imgur.com/FDBSSdq.jpg)
also finding its way into fuel tap which may explain the recently-added filter
(http://i.imgur.com/LlpJUNB.jpg)
some of it shakes out tho
(http://i.imgur.com/fj5ksOL.jpg)
this is what I got out today
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FFS. Has he been using polyfilla as a tank sealant?
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FFS. Has he been using polyfilla as a tank sealant?
lol. I'd like to find out. The bike is local so I probably could but I'll be happy just to get it out. Even if I just get the lumps out the POR15 will stick down any flakes that remain inside.
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its coming along Foy,
keep up the good work !!!
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A tank that I have is coated inside very badly with white sealant. I thought it was Kreem. Paintwork on the outside is very good. How did you break it up? I thought about rattling it with a load of nuts/bolt inside.
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A tank that I have is coated inside very badly with white sealant. I thought it was Kreem. Paintwork on the outside is very good. How did you break it up? I thought about rattling it with a load of nuts/bolt inside.
It possibly is Kreem or some other dedicated tank sealer but am not sure as I've only ever used POR15. The stuff in this tank has somehow broken up before I got there. I don't think nuts and bolts would break this as it's not brittle enough. My thinking is that any bits that stay attached to the tank won't cause any problems under the POR15 so am just going to get the big lumps out.
Shook a good bit more out yesterday 8)
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Ok. So that's the tank sealed. Not a huge deal to say about that apart from.....
- it only took another afternoon's shaking and cutting lumps with chisels to get the loose stuff out
- there was definitely still white stuff attached to inside of tank and putting a few screws in to shake at it didn't loosen much more
- it was almost impossible to get the lid off the tin of sealer
- the tank appears to have been brazed before as well as being sealed
- POR15 is like silicon sealer: no matter how careful you are it ends up places you don't want it. like penetrating two pairs of jeans and halfway up my wrist
So I could see the tank has a few rust spots and was thinking about immersing it in vinegar to remove these, so I'm not painting over rust later on, but I figured this would just cause more delays and there's no reason I can't dip it after the inside is sealed. I very much doubt the vinegar will unseal the POR15 and if it does will be a fantastic discovery for ppl around the world who may want to remove it from their tanks.
Regarding the paint on the bike. It's non-standard and seems to have been done 'professionally' as the orange (?) undercoat is probably etch-primer but it's not that great overall: basic attempt at graphics; doesn't polish up well, metallic-float under lacquer.
I'm going to have to re-paint all the 'tinware' and want to make it OEM design but not necessarily the paint scheme it originally came with. The CB125T had 3 phases of paintwork but none of the graphics seem to be easily available apart from the TDC ones so unless I go for them I'm going to paint the graphics on. It won't be difficult and I have some nice candy paint which I'll use for the 'decals'. Whilst looking for images of the various schemes I found a very eye-catching design on the Japanese market bikes which I'm going to try to replicate if I don't go for the correct 1987 TDE design. Silver would probably be the most sensible choice for the basic colour but a solid colour would be easier to paint so might go for black, or white.
Whilst I was working on the tank I had a look at the fuel tap. I'm not sure how it was made but there is a steel nut on the alloy body which isn't detachable and it's pretty rusty. Also the 10mm 'nut' on the bowl was a bit worn so I thought was going to have problems taking the bowl off to clean the filter but a little Imperial spanner proved to be a snug fit and it came off fine and I could clean the pieces of white tank-liner out. I've got a feeling the seal (nut to tank) isn't original but am sure I can get another one.
(http://i.imgur.com/YAb9GJW.jpg)
got all the loose stuff out
(http://i.imgur.com/XoGhGQX.jpg)
tank looks reasonably clean inside
(http://i.imgur.com/JobCdsN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLdWE05.jpg)
tank has various rusty area outside
(http://i.imgur.com/NgnLs7a.jpg)
lower rear RHS which was weeping thru paint has been brazed before and has a lot of filler
(http://i.imgur.com/DLQ7qpw.jpg)
had some difficulty getting lid off tin of sealer
(http://i.imgur.com/5WKKgKR.jpg)
so much so that even with whole lid unfolded it still wouldn't open!
(http://i.imgur.com/1zx6ca2.jpg)
'nut' on fuel-tap bowl was too worn for 10mm socket/spanner so improvised with Imperial spanner
(http://i.imgur.com/UgGHmaH.jpg)
which was handy as there were pieces of white stuff in there
(http://i.imgur.com/dQsHQbP.jpg)
as well as in drilling from upper chamber
(http://i.imgur.com/m6unlbb.jpg)
filter looks fine but seal might be wrong as it was trapped between securing-nut and tap-body
(http://i.imgur.com/4my0Chr.jpg)
quite like the Japanese-market paint scheme
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So with tank sealed and better forks on the next thing for Francis was to re-instate his wiring.
But before that a small word about original colour....
I found on rear mudguard, under seat, a sticker telling the colour code for the bike: Candy Alamoana Red.
If I'd found this a few weeks ago it would have saved me hours of Googling to try and work out the right colour but it's a moot point anyway as the colour-matched paint available (RS Paints ?) is very expensive and if I was to do another red candy (House of Kolor ?) they are only available as 2K which I don't use.
(http://i.imgur.com/jvSl938.jpg)
this sticker tells you all you need to know really
I mentioned at start of this thread that 'he' was laid-up in my barn a few years ago. Well I remember one evening Hannah and her man coming down to work on him and they were removing the headlamp etc. Think this was because everything up front was upset in the crash. I remember suggesting to them to photograph all the wiring connections for later reference.
Well last night I decided to connect everything up. The pictures might have helped but it's not actually that difficult even if you're colour-blind like me. Even on large fancy machines (eg XJR1300) it's much the same as any other bike: main loom connects to wiring from handlebar switches and ignition switch inside headlamp bowl; connect multi-plugs first then deal with any remaining single wires.
I also had a colour-coded wiring diagram I'd printed off the 'net five minutes before leaving the house. It wasn't ideal as it is a bit blurred and some of the connections shown don't exactly match my machine but I don't have the Haynes manual so it was best I could do.
(http://i.imgur.com/BKs0k5h.jpg?1)
found this just before I embarked on last night's task
There are always some connections on a bike which have been messed around with. It's a pet-hate of mine and the repairs are usually ugly and bewildering and seem to be more common the smaller the machine is :o
I have about 5 Honda SS50 looms and not one of them didn't have missing connectors or extra bits on them. Conversely on the XJR1300 I am working on it's fine. perhaps people are less inclined to mess with expensive machines.
Anyway Francis has 2 or 3 ubiquitous blue crimped connectors on his loom but they seem to have been done pretty well.
(http://i.imgur.com/4699Crv.jpg)
time to sort all this out
(http://i.imgur.com/6UxqJxL.jpg)
main loom spaghetti
(http://i.imgur.com/jQofc1V.jpg)
one rogue connector on earth? brown? 4-way/5-way? connector
(http://i.imgur.com/AZ2qiFg.jpg)
everything from ignition switch is fine
(http://i.imgur.com/NB27STa.jpg)
as are connections from RHS handlebar switch
(http://i.imgur.com/fd0T2EA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CNKjayR.jpg)
loom from LHS handlebar switch (incorporating headlamp connector) has a rogue blue connector too
(http://i.imgur.com/OEU3nhs.jpg)
just one wire coming from RHS front indicator which also has colour-coded (orange) ring in usual Honda fashion
(http://i.imgur.com/3yQPkEm.jpg)
but LHS indicator has extra (yellow) wires with another rogue connector plus same colour-code ring (orange) as RHS flasher
(http://i.imgur.com/P4to3Fs.jpg)
1st connection was easy: red plug from RHS handle switch to red plug in loom and blue/wite wire which connects over to same on LHS handle switch
(http://i.imgur.com/oumkyST.jpg)
ignition switch to main loom easy apart from black/white single wires which show on diagram as being part of multi-plug but aren't on my bike
(http://i.imgur.com/Fsw4YTO.jpg)
not quite sure where this black to black one came from and it's not on diagram but sure it's correct
(http://i.imgur.com/KoivnI2.jpg)
same with this one (grey? & green/red?) which may connect clutch-switch/indicator-relay/diode
(http://i.imgur.com/dFFPSt6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SXtGlFp.jpg)
single orange (?) wire goes to horn. has to as it's got spade-connector rather than bullet or plug and everything on loom has those
(http://i.imgur.com/5yGzwwY.jpg)
another easy one but not sure what it's for
(http://i.imgur.com/cpSSIAt.jpg)
this one is single wire from speedo lamp to double connector in loom. not sure why there is an empty one but wiring diagram actually shows single to double
(http://i.imgur.com/kLAfmrO.jpg)
found the other one for horn. single brown(?) spade from main loom
(http://i.imgur.com/6WbX66J.jpg)
despite being rogue connectors this was obvious as one blue wire is fly-lead from headlamp connector and diagram shows it goes to blue lead from high-beam warning lamp
(http://i.imgur.com/GtVvgDt.jpg)
connector from main loom (coming from rear LH indicator) has connector with 3 spaces for orange leads from LH switch, indicator warning lamp and LH indicator
(http://i.imgur.com/yWefzVw.jpg)
connection above leads to realisation that the front indicators shouldn't both have orange rings, on their clear leads. RHS one should be light blue
(http://i.imgur.com/o3NXqHV.jpg)
so as with LHS connector we have equivalent light blue one which has misleading orange-ringed wire in it now
(http://i.imgur.com/JtFe124.jpg)
tail-lamp was coming on in various switch configurations but no headlamp
(http://i.imgur.com/ZwlbAfC.jpg)
also have lots of lights on pod
So with everything obvious connected up and battery-charger connected to flat battery I had lots of stuff going on: tail light; indicators (not quite flashing); idiot lights, apart from high-beam; horn; speedo and tacho lights. No headlamp tho...
The only thing I hadn't connected were two of the rogue blue connectors. One on the yellow wires from LH indicator and one on the multi-earth thing. Connected them and hey presto we have headlight.
(http://i.imgur.com/ahA5oRw.jpg)
we had two connectors without a home. one from multi-earth connector and one on yellow leads from LH indicator
(http://i.imgur.com/eDERMSa.jpg)
once these, apparently unrelated, wires were connected we got headlamp
Only other thing that wasn't working was the blue high-beam idiot light. It was definitely connected so I figured bulb might be out and swapped it with the one from the speedo. After that neither the speedo or high-beam lamp lit up. Will need to investigate further....
Also I'm not sure how the switches work. There's a P symbol on the ignition switch and also on the lighting switch so what do you need to do for parking lights and what works and doesn't work when they're on? And who ever uses them anyway? :P
Suffice to say I was quite pleased and even gave the starter button a prod but there wasn't enough juice to get anything more than clicking.
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Ok so I spent Saturday fiddling with the electrics and now high-beam is working. Have removed rogue yellow wires from LHS front indicator and established they were there to provide an earth for the indicator. The wiring diagram suggests the indicators should earth through their fixings but I find that a bit puzzling as the little cage they are mounted on seems to be isolated from the frame with rubber bushes. Further investigation needed......
It does now beg the question 'why did I only get headlights when the yellow 'earth' wire was connected to the earth proper?' and now I'm getting them after dispensing with it.
As for the high-beam lamp. It was simply a bad connection on the later-added blue crimp bullet.
The bike is also cranking over quite well so next step will be fuel. Surely it can't be that easy...
(http://i.imgur.com/ihTBuKk.jpg)
high-beam lamp sorted after simple multi-meter checks revealed power only getting as far as bullet connector on lead from lamp
(http://i.imgur.com/GN4Tjw7.jpg)
indicator needed removed to address bent bracket and bodge yellow wire
(http://i.imgur.com/JRmwlgK.jpg)
bending these type of things back into shape is seldom totally successful
(http://i.imgur.com/JiOjHOo.jpg)
conclude that yellow wire is non-standard. put there to provide earth via eyelet round screw which connects bracket to bulb-housing
I also filled the front forks with oil. Well ATF. Don't have a manual to hand but a bit of Googling informed me that Haynes advise 128ml of automatic transmission fluid in each leg and I just happened to have some of that. Not much to say about this really apart from you can easily hold cap-nut with thumb-pressure to stop it flying off when it is fully unthreaded.
Putting it back in is a little worrying as the threads are fine and could be crossed or stripped if they start off squint. I found using a socket was better than a spanner as you can get more downwards pressure but you really need to loosen the handlebar clamp to rotate the bars back a bit so you can get the socket pushing down straight. I also thought I'd fully drained the forks but as you can see from pics there was still quite a bit on mucky fluid coming out
(http://i.imgur.com/jbLG43R.jpg)
drain-screws removed before filling just in case there was a little old oil still in fork legs
(http://i.imgur.com/YvgzLS1.jpg)
don't be frightened off cap nuts being dangerous when unscrewed. they can be restrained by thumb-pressure
(http://i.imgur.com/N6S9Brw.jpg)
not sure how accurate my dirty measuring jug was but no syringe handy to administer the prescribed 128cc of ATF
(http://i.imgur.com/WRIbrh3.jpg)
socket is better than spanner for re-fitting caps
-
So after a successful Saturday on the electrics, plus forks & tank addressed, the next step was to fire it up. Now this is a pretty big deal to someone whose own bikes have been in bits for 30 years and never seen petrol. Well my AS3 did once I think and my RD250 has went in my presence but basically I've never brought a bike back from the dead.
So I got a fiver's worth of gas. Wheeled the bike out into the sun. Tentatively filled the tank via a jug and the wind kept blowing the fuel onto the tank (thank God I've not just re-sprayed it) but after this was wiped off I could see there were no leaks. Nice one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_FUwkxTxu8
walkround video (very short)
Turned the tap on a petrol poured out from places it shouldn't. Turns out it was from the hose (onto tap) that previous mechanic had added with fuel filter. Trimmed a bit of that off and added a small tie-wrap and tried again. No leaks. So I started to crank it over on the starter button but there was no signs of life altho the battery was surprisingly strong considering it hasn't been used for 3 years or so. I then tried some choke which reminds me of Hannah asking, way back, 'is the choke on when the lever is up or down?'. At the time I had no idea. Couldn't find the answer and the little arrow on the lever could be taken to mean either way.
However on Saturday when I was messing about with the electrics trying to find where the loom earthed I took the LHS airbox out which brings the hose leading to the carb out too and could therefore see the choke flap in action. With the lever up the flap is horizontal (ie open) and with lever pushed down the flap is vertical (ie closed/on) so the arrow on the lever actually indicates direction to take choke off not put it on. :o
Anyway with the choke on I still wasn't getting anything so the plugs came out and as well as being crusty they are in pretty bad condition and there was no trace of any fuel on them. I gave them a clean and checked for spark by resting then on the downpipes while cranking the engine over. I could see a very faint spark so at least the ignition system was working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdUI0lkG34k
cranking video (short)
(http://i.imgur.com/xp0mCQi.jpg)
not pretty despite being only about 2000 miles old
(http://i.imgur.com/C46ik6v.jpg)
this one doesn't look so bad but still large gap for spark to jump
So I was getting a spark of sorts but possibly fuel problem. Was thinking mb carb problem. Jets blocked or flaot stuck. For some reason I thought mb try boosting the battery a bit just by adding the charger to it. It's a bit fiddly getting it to balance under seat but worked good enough previous days when I was checking the electrics. At first I wasn't getting anything different from before but then tried taking the choke off. The linkage between the two crabs for the choke flaps is pretty rubbish on these. Its a metal strip in a U shape and I noticed the previous day it wasn't really working great when I operated the lever so as well as pushing the lever up I stuck me fingers up between the carbs to push the strip backwards.
Anyway much to my surprise Francis sprang to life and continued to idle away after I removed the battery charger. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKhAX0WHziw
start-up video (longer)
-
won't be long now
it will burst into life !!
keep up the good work !!!
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You were a minute or so too early John ;)
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Just to finish off for tonight I would say to anyone trying to remove the airbox or carb rubber you're liable to drive yourself nuts putting it back on. I'd done this before on Francis (can't remember why) and vaguely remember working the rubber back into the airbox with a thin screwdriver.
This time I thought I'd be clever and keep the hose attached to the box by pulling it off at the carb inlet. I just could not get it to go back on so then loosened the carb at the cylinder side to get a little fore & aft movement but still no way. You just can't get your fingers in the the carb inlet side.
The trick is to leave the carb connections tight and just push the airbox into the frame. The hose can easily be pulled in. No screwdriver needed. Should do a video lol.
Oh and just to burst my bubble. You may remember I mentioned an XJR1300...
Well the owner of that fell out with me badly when he heard the Honda starting up. He was livid as his bike got taken apart, by me, in March 15 and isn't running yet. You can hear him at end of video shouting 'that's the wrong one' >:(
Guess what bike I worked on today.....
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Excellent, glad you've got it going at last. Next is to make it safely rideable, then take it through the gears under load, and see how it feels. If you've not ridden one before, it's surprising how gutless they are at low speed, you need at least 4,000rpm to pull away cleanly, better at 5 upwards, and they really thrive at the redline! I had the CB125T 2, the last unrestricted version, it would do a genuine 85mph.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
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cheers h'g'. I've been out on it twice before but literally just up the road and back so no real feel for it yet. I'm going to put the new chain and sprockets (that came with it) on next and re-fit the front M/C, caliper etc. Also while am fitting the rear sprocket will have a look at the rear drum as brake doesn't seem to be working
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Just a quicky here. I've not looked at Francis for a day or three, as I've been busy trying to resurrect a 2002 Yamaha XJR1300, but I wheeled him outside along with my Raleigh Bomber while I worked on the Yamaha.
The Yamaha tank was off for a while as I was checking all the wiring connections etc and I was aware of the smell of petrol but put it down to fact that I'd disturbed the fuel hoses etc.
God knows how short or long it was later but glancing over at Francis I saw petrol leaking from the tap all over the engine. I tried tightening up the nut a little but it wasn't working so I disconnected the hose running to the carbs and drained the fuel back into a can.
Not that much went in to I've probably lost nearly all that was in the tank.
Anyway I was a bit suspicious of the seal before and you can see it's torn so hopefully that's the problem. Just need to find a new one.
(http://i.imgur.com/GYVrvbg.jpg)
fuel was pouring out all over the engine lifting the badly-applied black paint
(http://i.imgur.com/7ZfEnVC.jpg)
hopefully a new seal will sort this problem
(http://i.imgur.com/TQA6mdJ.jpg)
I put smell of petrol down to fact I had tank off another bike
(http://i.imgur.com/cRZY4w4.jpg)
monster bike
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A tiny update for a tiny part....
So I found the split o-ring that goes between the fuel-tap gland-nut and the threaded boss on the tank itself. I thought there would be plenty suitable ones for sale online. Just need to know the dimensions? Well I couldn't seem to find any that were fuel-resistant and/or the right size which is apparently 9mm x 1.3mm ???
A few weeks back I found the part no. on CMSL site and they also had them in stock for a few £s but then there was some crazy P&P charge - like 18 Euros or something - so it went on the back-burner.
Last week however I found one on Ebay for £5.55 all-in :) . Not cheap for what it is but what's a fiver to get the bike running again....
It looks like it was actually ordered urgently several years ago by a motorcycle repair shop/dealer but for whatever reason not used. Anyway am happy with the find and keen to get it on and see if the leak is cured.
(http://i.imgur.com/fR2CGzW.jpg)
looks like Kent M/Cycles needed this urgently back in 2010
(http://i.imgur.com/oXs4HSa.jpg)
£5.55 (inc P&P) for a small but vital part
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It's those "small but vital parts" that cost the most :'( Please keep updating ffoy, I'm really enjoying this.
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It's those "small but vital parts" that cost the most :'( Please keep updating ffoy, I'm really enjoying this.
Thanks Clunker. If I get any free time this week I'll be re-filling the tank and fitting the chain & sprocket kit. Maybe a spin round the yard. Should really order some new plugs too...
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I think those plugs would be my number one priority ;D. I had one of these bikes many moons ago, it was only 2 or 3 years old at the time. Advertised as a non runner for £70, I expected to see a wreck when I turned up. When I got to the address there was a showroom condition bike on the driveway, I thought the one for sale would be dumped in the garage, but no......it was the one on the driveway. The guy just wanted rid, said he couldn't be bothered with it. I tried to start it but it just wouldn't go, didn't bother messing with it too much as I'd nipped out from work, I paid the guy and removed the battery, told him I'd be back later. Charged the battery at work, bought new set of plugs, got a lift to the guys house, replaced battery, put plugs in and it fired up 8), bargain! Went to start it the next day and it wouldn't start! ::)
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how is francis, im worried for him!
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Hello ffoy, I have a couple of standard XJR1300 silencers (I say standard but they've had the free flow baffle mod done on them, so they look standard but have a slightly deeper tone, definitely not loud just a tad deeper ) plus a stainless oil cooler cover and 4 carb mounts, all from my year 2000 SP that I sold last year, I was going to put them all on eBay but if you need any of the above PM me, cheers Mark.
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Hi mickwinf & MarkCR750.
Francis is fine lol. I've just not had time to attend to him and thanks for the offer of the XJR parts but right now I have a more troublesome issue to deal with there - and another one which sorta involves Francis.
So.....
The XJR is dying as soon as the throttle is opened (I've got some videos on YouTube of this) and I'm pretty sure it's a leak at the exhaust manifolds that is the problem. Just tighten them up? Well some of the studs are severely rusted and I'm frightened they'll snap. I have new studs and gaskets to fit but am really worried about snapping the old studs in head when I try to replace them but it's got to be done so right now am experimenting with dissolving a bolt out of an alloy head with acid. If it works I'll do same on the XJR.
The other thing is the XJR isn't mine and the owner asked me to respray the seat cowl a few years ago. I tried to explain to him that I wouldn't be able to get factory finish etc. He doesn't listen and was disappointed with my efforts. I used silver rattle cans and 1K acrylic lacquer over it.
He now wants the tank painted and doesn't remember the issue with the cowl so I have bought another compressor and air-fed mask so I can spray 2K paints. I've found a supplier who does Yamaha 0660 SM1 (Silver Metallic) basecoat and I can now spray a 2K clear safely over it.
How does this involve Francis? Well I'm going to do the 'tins' on him with that paint to see how it pans out. Not sure if I mentioned it before but the Japan market had a really nice silver paint scheme for the CB125TDE with blue stripes on it and I am going to copy that
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I think those plugs would be my number one priority ;D. I had one of these bikes many moons ago, it was only 2 or 3 years old at the time. Advertised as a non runner for £70, I expected to see a wreck when I turned up. When I got to the address there was a showroom condition bike on the driveway, I thought the one for sale would be dumped in the garage, but no......it was the one on the driveway. The guy just wanted rid, said he couldn't be bothered with it. I tried to start it but it just wouldn't go, didn't bother messing with it too much as I'd nipped out from work, I paid the guy and removed the battery, told him I'd be back later. Charged the battery at work, bought new set of plugs, got a lift to the guys house, replaced battery, put plugs in and it fired up 8), bargain! Went to start it the next day and it wouldn't start! ::)
Great story Clunker. What was the outcome?
It actually reminds me of something loosely similar...
It's 1988. My rich friend wants to buy a motorcycle about 20 miles away and asks me to come along as I'm experienced (ie I have 2 bikes in bits in my parents' loft). He tells me the type of bike it is (actually I think it was a CB125. It was a Honda. It was blue and it was a 125 but that's all I really remember) so I check the Used Bike Guide (remember that?) for values. We drive to the seller's house in rich friend's Mum's car. Nice presentable bike is there and guy wants a fair price for it but I say 'am afraid the value for it is only blah blah blah' and he seems a bit shocked but believes me and gives it at a much lower price. Rich friend asks me to ride bike back home (I've never ridden a motorcycle before) and I do so feeling like a legend. I get home and re-visit the Used Bike Guide and realise I was looking at the wrong model of CB125 and the guy has been duped although I had no intention of doing it :-\
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For those corroded exhaust studs and similarly affected threads I've been using a drill with variable screwdriving clutch to break the corrosion bond.
Specifically I'm not after torque in any quantity so don't use one of the impact driving power tools.
Using a square drive adaptor to get a socket on the drill, set the clutch really low so that you're not trying to undo the nut. Just use the high speed setting and let the clutch operation just vibrate the fastener, use it in both directions and just let it run for a while. It may take a few minutes like this and then bring the clutch setting a step higher to continue. It usually gets most things that can be recovered, I've got out steel screws that are almost one component within a steel base and would usually just snap.
If you use really low clutch torque it doesn't feel like anything much is happening but you have to be patient and just let it run and gently they start to move.
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Nice tip K2-K6. I have a Bosch drill with variable speed/reverse and 'gears' (1 & 2) so might work but access could be tight with engine in frame :-\
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They are usually close to the downtubes on most bikes, I know what you mean.
What I used for them is a drill to 1/4 drive adaptor, then use a 1/4 extension bar with a barrel shape on the end that goes into the socket. The small diameter will go past most items and the deflection from the barrel end allows some degree of angle to let the socket get straight onto the stud. I've a Bahco 1/4 drive socket set, tough little thing that will take up to 14mm sockets.
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Thanks again for the tips K2-K6. I'll keep you posted on the XJR (another thread for Other Bikes?) but meantime a small update for Francis...
Back in March I found one fork-leg dust-seal. Well another one popped up in Bonny Scotland, on Ebay. So £7 lighter now have a pair and two dealers have one less 'useless' item on their shelves. Is that Feng Shui? ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/VZj1N3x.jpg)
now have a pair of dust seals. £7.77 inc P&P :)