Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: cb550k-aaron on March 27, 2018, 12:27:09 PM
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Hi guys, i'm having bother trying to engage 3rd gear, its only this gear, any suggestions? It was selecting it last year but it would slip out of gear
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Sadly I have seen this a few times over the years, normal cause is a worm or vent selector fork. The 500/4 was well known for it, and the selectors were modified for the 550's but do still fail occasionally. Someone else may have a different view on it, but my money is on the selector fork.
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If its been slipping out you will need to change the gears as well as the dogs will have rounded edges. One pair of gears was modified but and must be changed as pairs as the tooth profile altered but cant remember which ones
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The 550's all use the later setup mate
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Why you're struggling to engage 3rd? when the motor is running?
To stop slipping out of gear it is possible to undercut the gears, an angle of about 3o and ground back a little to sharpen the corners again does it. Careful not to undercut too much of an angle otherwise quick shifting and clutchless shifting is compromised.
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:'(
Great sounds like a lot of fun.
Someone has suggested changing the oil from 15w40 to 10w40 as well. It wouldn't be clutch adjustment related no?
Gutted if it's gearbox as I've only just got the bike built up again after the winter
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Sadly I have seen this a few times over the years, normal cause is a worm or vent selector fork. The 500/4 was well known for it, and the selectors were modified for the 550's but do still fail occasionally. Someone else may have a different view on it, but my money is on the selector fork.
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A worm or vent fork???? your spell checker not working Hairy :) :) :)
I did wonder lol!!
Probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway.
Is this a case of a full engine strip down again? Or can I go bottom half down?
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It's engine out, and work on it upside down (The engine, not you! ;D ;D ;D) and yes, you can split the cases without disturbing the top end.
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It's engine out, and work on it upside down (The engine, not you! ;D ;D ;D) and yes, you can split the cases without disturbing the top end.
:'(
I might need worked on lol (heartbreaking)
Can't be done with engine in the bike then? lol (reason i ask is it been in and out 3 times because of paint lol)
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Afraid not. Silly question, but if it was jumping out of gear last summer, did it not cross your mind to investigate it while the engine was out, would have saved you all this heartbreak.
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Afraid not. Silly question, but if it was jumping out of gear last summer, did it not cross your mind to investigate it while the engine was out, would have saved you all this heartbreak.
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I know your totally right, but tbh i thought it was more Clutch related and maybe needed time to bed in or something :( (first time building anything like this)
Only other thing i can think of is the Rear Sets i Have Fitted, that gear change side has some movement in it that might not be helping getting a proper purchase to go into gear properly.
I'll try the old Gear lever on for a run and report back first.
The Forks you guys are talking about, is it normally the two on the upper shaft and not on the drum? ie 1&3 on the below link
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550k3-four-england_model14671/partslist/E16.html#results
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These pics I did a year or two back highlighting the -286- CB250/350K parts in the early 500 gearbox.
Parts books for 250k/350k & Cb500K0/K1 are on this forum in Dropbox links
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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Ashimoto, just in case you're interested, you may have a look at the concerning pages of the CB500K2 (ED, F, G) a model that was assembled in 1976. Maybe you (or somebody else more technical than I am) can detect modifications that could explain why my gearbox after 130.000 kms is still functioning OK. Also I never had any clutch problems like broken pushrods. Maybe I am just lucky, maybe Honda improved something.
http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_1.pdf and
http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_2.pdf
For instance: on page 28 number 13, GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT TOP (27T) is a -374- part.
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I know that the later gearbox had a little trochoidal oil pump fitted to the counter-shaft needle roller bearing.
If you look in my Dropbox links there is this SB.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lits1e6t83gkhud/SB500_04.pdf?dl=0
Bryan/Oddjob/Triggers are the gurus on this on here
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Thanks. Can't remember I had seen that SB before, so thanks again. My enginenumber begins with 217... so I guess I'm safe. BTW, that little trochoidal oil pump fitted to the counter-shaft needle roller bearing was exclusively in the CB550 and CB500K3.
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I posted about the 500 central selector fork just recently as noticed one had come up....and someone snapped it up before me......
Then found three more in the States at reasonable price but was going to buy two and then sell one on to cover the carriage....then damn me they got withdrawn...
So seeing so many common parts, will go for the 350 box.
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Drained the oil and took the sump off today. As you guys thought gears have been chewed :(
Not 100% sure which ones yet but engine is out and gonna split it tomorrow.
The Selector forks how can I tell of they are done? Can I post pictures tomorrow for you chaps to look at?
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Its normally blatantly obvious but post pictures anyway. Keep the shafts complete and refer to a parts book for what you need as the dogs that engage to get say 3rd are not on 3rd gear
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Has anyone got a good clear picture of the clutch side of things? Ie the gear change mech etc?
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I am getting confused by this thread, the 500 and 550 are different gear boxes. lucky that I am building a 550 today. Hope the pics help.[attach=1]
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I am getting confused by this thread, the 500 and 550 are different gear boxes. lucky that I am building a 550 today. Hope the pics help. (Attachment Link)
Trigger! This is perfect many many thanks. It's a 550 I have. Cheers
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Look for wear on the middle dog. The one in the pic is fecked ;)
[attach=1]
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Hey Trig, what's the red stuff on the second gear from the left on the output shaft in the first pic? Also traces of it around a couple of the main bearings?
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Hey Trig, what's the red stuff on the second gear from the left on the output shaft in the first pic? Also traces of it around a couple of the main bearings?
That would be a dollop of bearing guard mate.
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Okay fellas, I split the casings and took a look.
Here's a link to pictures
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xUKcmLBYLNYGFGEs2
Can you fellas have a look at the forks etc and let me know what you's think?
Also, the gear selector shaft which the gear lever connects too. Should there be any play horizontally? Mine moves around 5-10mm left and right
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Looks like its been to the dentist ;D
The damage is not caused by wear, it has been knocked down the gears at high speed to do that sort of carnage ;)
A little worried that the roller bearing housing pins look flush in the journals.
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It crunched when I was out last I was changing from 2-3rd, lest year it was slipping out of the gears but it never ever crunched on me
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Looks like its been to the dentist ;D
The damage is not caused by wear, it has been knocked down the gears at high speed to do that sort of carnage ;)
A little worried that the roller bearing housing pins look flush in the journals.
I did notice that and some repairs to the casing too but seems to be well done. Would that be affecting anything internally? Do u think the selectors look ok etc?
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They look pretty bad, it takes real force to inflict that level of damage and probably over a period of time.
If the cases show signs of damage and subsequent repair I would seriously consider taking the whole engine apart just for piece of mind.
Might be worth considering trying to source another engine if only for spare parts (or use yours as the donor).
Good luck with the rebuild and hope you get the parts you need to get back on the road.
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You're very lucky that some of the debris from that didn't jam between the gears and lock the back wheel while you were riding it, the consequences if it did would be terrifying!
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Personally I would be looking for another engine, some bad damage there. Deffinately a full strip down and really good clean up to remove all the debris. Check the cases are all good including those pins behind the clutch cover that prevent bearings spinning that so often pop the top of the cover, check everything, before buying bits as that looks like it has potential to add up to a costly repair, if the top end is good a decent cb550 bottom end shouldn't break the bank - the bottom ends seem to fail less often in my experience.
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I might looking a new bottom end tbh. Bar the gears do the selectors all look ok? I need to get parts ordered asap
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The dogs look reasonable but, will need measuring up. Just had another look at the bearing journals and you can see that the bearings have been spinning. I would be looking at another bottom end as by the pics it all looks wrong.
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Does anyone have any NOS of the gears I need before I get them elsewhere? I'd rather give to another member
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I have most of the gears NOS from the 500, list the part numbers you want and I may have them, they do share some gear just not all.
23431374000
And
23441286020
Cheers let me know
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That has been assembled with total lack of care in the pasty and a different bottom end is the way to go rather than attempt a salvage job
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That has been assembled with total lack of care in the pasty and a different bottom end is the way to go rather than attempt a salvage job
With Bryan on this one. Just by the pictures, it needs a lot more than a couple of cogs ;)
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That has been assembled with total lack of care in the pasty and a different bottom end is the way to go rather than attempt a salvage job
With Bryan on this one. Just by the pictures, it needs a lot more than a couple of cogs ;)
Yea I get that, but the rest of the Gears are fine so is there any point replacing all of them?
Bar the Roller Bearing housing pins can you suggest what else I should be aware of?
I really appreciate all the help.
Thanks
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That has been assembled with total lack of care in the pasty and a different bottom end is the way to go rather than attempt a salvage job
With Bryan on this one. Just by the pictures, it needs a lot more than a couple of cogs ;)
Yea I get that, but the rest of the Gears are fine so is there any point replacing all of them?
Bar the Roller Bearing housing pins can you suggest what else I should be aware of?
I really appreciate all the help.
Thanks
I get what you are saying .. I had a similar dilemna with my 750K0 gearbox (no horrific damage though just slightly worn dogs etc.) .... but in the end I got a low mileage gearbox (transmission ;D) from the States and literally everything was in near perfect condition on it ... it would have cost what I paid just to replace the bearings alone.
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That has been assembled with total lack of care in the pasty and a different bottom end is the way to go rather than attempt a salvage job
With Bryan on this one. Just by the pictures, it needs a lot more than a couple of cogs ;)
Yea I get that, but the rest of the Gears are fine so is there any point replacing all of them?
Bar the Roller Bearing housing pins can you suggest what else I should be aware of?
I really appreciate all the help.
Thanks
Or when you guys say bottom end do you mean everything? Gears, casjngs, main shaft etc etc?
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Yep, as if the bearing has spun in the casings, they are well and truly bug**ed. Basically a "Bottom end" is a complete engine minus head and barrels
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Yep, as if the bearing has spun in the casings, they are well and truly bug**ed. Basically a "Bottom end" is a complete engine minus head and barrels
:'(
Sake lol. Ok anyone got a good bottom end for sale?
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I'm not sure if a bottom end IS the way to go TBH, there is a lot of damage sure BUT the problem is the new bottom end isn't guaranteed to be any better unless it comes with one of course. TwoWheelSpares on E-Bay have some complete engines but no bottom ends, your never sure on what the crank shells are going to be like on another engine, his may be new but they don't transfer as we know unless your really really lucky.
Really blowing the pics up shows what I suspect has happened, just above the mainshaft 3rd gear where it is missing 2 teeth there is another tooth with just the leading edge missing, I suspect this came off, jammed between the gear teeth just below it when second was engaged, this would mean this gear cluster was sitting to the left, when the 2 teeth came off they were in close proximity to countershaft second and they jammed between the 2 gears, would explain why no teeth are missing from mainshaft second, which is puzzling as you'd expect them to be meshed but again I think maybe third was in the process of being selected. The selectors look fine, which again is puzzling as you'd expect them to be the cause of this but they clearly aren't. Maybe the PO was a bit clumsy and started the process by catching the 3rd gear tooth edge. Looking again at the pics you can see new damage just under the primary chain and again to the left of that, these were no doubt the result of all the debris getting flung out of the gearbox.
I'm not convinced the bearing spun in the casings, I've never seen them do that before even when the knock pins are squashed flat to the case as in this case, I'd like to see some pics of those bearings in detail to say for sure though, if they had I'd expect to see some damage to the knock pins and I can't see that.
I'd also think about just replacing the entire box,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB550-CB-550-K-F-Four-1974-1978-Gearbox-Gear-Box-Assembly/332536863177?hash=item4d6cbdd9c9:g:V5oAAOSwzRFabzr4
If you just buy a bottom end your going to need a complete set of gaskets as well, plus some time stripping both engines to see if there is any damage. However I'd also point out that the damage caused by crushing the 2 knock pins can sometimes be significant, I'd like to see pics of the sprocket area from the outside to see if the pin came through the casing and also of the clutch area for the same reason.
Oddjob, I've added two pictures of the pins where they burst the casing. These were sealed and are 100% no leaks etc. I'll take pictures of the bearings etc and upload them later on.
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Those both look to be recent breaks, has the engine been apart recently?
Around 2 Years ago for a full overhaul. Them pictures were taken at that stage not recently.
I added the bearing pictures etc to same link
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I'm not sure if a bottom end IS the way to go TBH, there is a lot of damage sure BUT the problem is the new bottom end isn't guaranteed to be any better unless it comes with one of course. TwoWheelSpares on E-Bay have some complete engines but no bottom ends, your never sure on what the crank shells are going to be like on another engine, his may be new but they don't transfer as we know unless your really really lucky.
Really blowing the pics up shows what I suspect has happened, just above the mainshaft 3rd gear where it is missing 2 teeth there is another tooth with just the leading edge missing, I suspect this came off, jammed between the gear teeth just below it when second was engaged, this would mean this gear cluster was sitting to the left, when the 2 teeth came off they were in close proximity to countershaft second and they jammed between the 2 gears, would explain why no teeth are missing from mainshaft second, which is puzzling as you'd expect them to be meshed but again I think maybe third was in the process of being selected. The selectors look fine, which again is puzzling as you'd expect them to be the cause of this but they clearly aren't. Maybe the PO was a bit clumsy and started the process by catching the 3rd gear tooth edge. Looking again at the pics you can see new damage just under the primary chain and again to the left of that, these were no doubt the result of all the debris getting flung out of the gearbox.
I'm not convinced the bearing spun in the casings, I've never seen them do that before even when the knock pins are squashed flat to the case as in this case, I'd like to see some pics of those bearings in detail to say for sure though, if they had I'd expect to see some damage to the knock pins and I can't see that.
I'd also think about just replacing the entire box,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB550-CB-550-K-F-Four-1974-1978-Gearbox-Gear-Box-Assembly/332536863177?hash=item4d6cbdd9c9:g:V5oAAOSwzRFabzr4
If you just buy a bottom end your going to need a complete set of gaskets as well, plus some time stripping both engines to see if there is any damage. However I'd also point out that the damage caused by crushing the 2 knock pins can sometimes be significant, I'd like to see pics of the sprocket area from the outside to see if the pin came through the casing and also of the clutch area for the same reason.
I disagree Oddjob, the pins are lower than the journal surface and I can see the marks on the journal where the bearing has turned and then gone tight and stopped as the engine heated up and the spun when it has cooled.
Seen this tooo much lately with customers engines, as they have tried to rebuild their own motor and then bring it to me saying, it is jumping out of gear.
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I disagree Oddjob, the pins are lower than the journal surface and I can see the marks on the journal where the bearing has turned and then gone tight and stopped as the engine heated up and the spun when it has cooled.
Seen this tooo much lately with customers engines, as they have tried to rebuild their own motor and then bring it to me saying, it is jumping out of gear.
In your opinion Trigger Is the spinning of the bearing the cause for the slipping and eventually the damage?
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Hold on I just get my crystal ball out me tool box ;D ;D
The pin damage should of been repaired to make sure the bearings did not spin, before it was put together and started up. Short cuts on engine builds always bites back in a big way.
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Ok let me know what it says ::) lol.
If I go the route of repairing this casing with the pins in the correct places. Can you give any tips or would u just replace?
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Ok let me know what it says ::) lol.
If I go the route of repairing this casing with the pins in the correct places. Can you give any tips or would u just replace?
Hard to say without measuring the cases up to find how much damage has been done.
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Ok let me know what it says ::) lol.
If I go the route of repairing this casing with the pins in the correct places. Can you give any tips or would u just replace?
Hard to say without measuring the cases up to find how much damage has been done.
Are there readily available specs that it should be? Tbh it hasn't done anymore than 150miles I'd say since the Pins were damaged.
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Yeah your correct Trig, the new pics clearly show the damage, there wasn't enough detail on the original pics for me to be sure.
Is it enough to bin the bottom end though? I'd chance using it again TBH, so long as the pins are made to stand proud of course and a new gearbox is fitted. I'd be interested in where all the debris has gone though, is it in the sump?
The damage to the cases, were the pics taken before or after the rebuild? I'd say after as those breaks look very clean, if that's the case then whoever reassembled the cases is responsible.
I thought your eagle eye would of picked it up from the first picture ;)
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So for the curious, the gist of this damage is that gross misuse has stripped the teeth of 2nd and 3rd, locked up the free/splined cogs causing the shafts to rotate in their bearing housings and ramming the dowels down into the case where they have tried to exit. Subsequently the blind bearings are free(ish) to rotate as they want?
That's some achievement.
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Maybe I should stop bashing mine through the box.
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So for the curious, the gist of this damage is that gross misuse has stripped the teeth of 2nd and 3rd, locked up the free/splined cogs causing the shafts to rotate in their bearing housings and ramming the dowels down into the case where they have tried to exit. Subsequently the blind bearings are free(ish) to rotate as they want?
That's some achievement.
Nope ! Some muppet put the crankcases together without lining up the bearing housings with the pins located. This pushed the pins through the cases, allowing the bearings to spin ;)
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I shall carry on abusing mine then ;D
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you do as you want.
I will continue to ride like a pussycat with sore paws !!!
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you do as you want.
I will continue to ride like a pussycat with sore paws !!!
So will I John, I always let Julie ride like a lunatic ;D ;D
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you do as you want.
I will continue to ride like a pussycat with sore paws !!!
;D ;D ;D ;D
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So for the curious, the gist of this damage is that gross misuse has stripped the teeth of 2nd and 3rd, locked up the free/splined cogs causing the shafts to rotate in their bearing housings and ramming the dowels down into the case where they have tried to exit. Subsequently the blind bearings are free(ish) to rotate as they want?
That's some achievement.
No, it's the other way round. As Trigger says, someone has put it together with the bearings not located on the positioning dowel pins, then torqued up the cases forcing the pins through the casting and allowing the bearings to be something like free to position themselves.
If the gear shafts move in relation to the selector forks, then it's possible to get two gears try to partly select at the same time. As you come out of second gear it should clear the engagement first and just before it drops the third gear dogs into place ( it's a fine line of synchronisation) but if the third gear dogs just touch their target while second is still hooked up then the dogs are strong enough to take it. It just fires a couple of teeth off the cogs as they are more fragile / smaller than the dogs. Then the shrapnel goes through other stuff if chunky enough to do damage.
Ironically, if it was bashed through quickly / brutally from second to third, then you'd go faster than the conflict would occur so would get away with that situation. But you wouldn't know in the first place, so moot point.
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I would never imagine someone would not align the pins. Just goes to show, never underestimate the stupid.
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I'm less familiar with the 500 but the 750 has always been built into the upside down top crankcase, I thought.
Different in that the gearbox secondary shaft is located in a hole within the bottom case with that bearing assembly put in after the gearshaft.
I haven't seen the pictures of this one, the locator rings are there, aren't they? Something appears to have moved though during use as it's gone from being slightly difficult to failure.
I always feel that with any gearbox problems you've got to stop using them as soon as possible, and then you may save it. Any conflict only ever gets worse if used.
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As OddJob states.
Not Stupidity but a lack of experience. It's a learning experience for us atm. Never seen the inside of an engine until this one was originally taken apart.
Any tips for what Grease or oil or sealer or whatever we need would be greatly appreciated.
The only parts in the Sump and attached to the Magnetic Sump Nut was Gear parts. Nothing else.
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Certainly the Honda manual I have states "install the crankshaft into the lower crankcase" but my 1975 vintage Haynes manual says " invert the upper crankcase and replace the crankshaft". As the shifter forks and the pins for the bearings are in this upper half it just seemed the natural way.
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I feel for you Aaron. I have recently just completed a complete rebuild on my CB400/4 engine. My plan was to use the Haynes manual and the Honda workshop manual as being a novice on engines and having very limited mechanical knowledge, I hadn't a clue what I was doing. I was lucky having Graham (Trigger) to help and advise me when I got stuck, which was very often. My advice now would be to learn from the experience, get it sorted but most importantly, do it right and do it once. Any bodge will bite you in the arse big time.
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I always build the 500 in the top case as its easier to locate those pins and the selectors and its easy to fit the primary shaft afterwards
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Sorry Aaron, we've hacked your thread again, but it is good advice for putting the bits back in the cases:
Oddjob, Well Haynes book does show two pictures of the starter clutch assy with the primary chain round it lying loosely in the top half and and step 8 says "pass the pass the sprocket over the starter clutch sprocket". Steps 12 and 13 are bolting the halves together and step 14 is "re-install the primary shaft from the right hand side".
[attach=1]
The description earlier on gets a bit confusing as after putting the crankshaft in the top half, it describes uprighting the case, but it looks like it means just to get at the spring detent on the selector drum (not on the 550). Only bits for the kickstart it describes as being installed in the bottom half of the cases.
And I have sorted the few old Motorcyclye Mechanics mags from the 70s, so any referring to 500/550s are to hand and the March 74 edition 500 rebuild shows it being done as above, supposedly at the "Honda Service School" so they had all given up doing it by the Honda manual. The manual is littered with poor/incomplete advice and innacuracies.
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If you are stuck for parts I have a few old cb550 engines that are either stripped down to bare cases and random boxes of old cogs ( how I bought my first cb550 ) or I may have engines that are complete that I could strip of the un needed bits. Unfortunately most of them are an un known quantity. There is 1 with a trashed top end that I know the gearbox was operating fine on but the cases are basically scrap since a valve punched through a piston then through the case. My old cb550 stuff is basically mothballed and I think I could let an engine go - I'd be ok with you popping up, opening the sump on a few and taking your pick as long as we got everything sealed up again. I also have a inspection camera to look inside the oil filler which might help check the locator pegs in the gearbox.
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So I got the Gearbox that OddJob posted it's like new! Well Happy.
Got the pins fixed and the Bearings now sit where they should without moving in my Casings and everything looks good thankfully.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the help so far and will keep you all updated. Fingers crossed for everything being ok.
Cheers
Aaron
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So I got the Gearbox that OddJob posted it's like new! Well Happy.
Got the pins fixed and the Bearings now sit where they should without moving in my Casings and everything looks good thankfully.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the help so far and will keep you all updated. Fingers crossed for everything being ok.
Cheers
Aaron
I didn't post any gearbox Aaron, you sure your not giving me credit which should go to someone else, easy mistake to make but annoying if your that person and you don't at least get a thanks.
Glad to see it's working out, mistakes can sometimes really be expensive, lets hope yours is now rectified. Did you seal the holes in the castings where the pins poked through, the clutch one isn't a big problem, if it leaks it just leaks into somewhere there is already oil but the sprocket side wants sealing at the very least.
I think he's referring to the link you posted about one a couple of pages back!
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I'm not sure if a bottom end IS the way to go TBH, there is a lot of damage sure BUT the problem is the new bottom end isn't guaranteed to be any better unless it comes with one of course. TwoWheelSpares on E-Bay have some complete engines but no bottom ends, your never sure on what the crank shells are going to be like on another engine, his may be new but they don't transfer as we know unless your really really lucky.
Really blowing the pics up shows what I suspect has happened, just above the mainshaft 3rd gear where it is missing 2 teeth there is another tooth with just the leading edge missing, I suspect this came off, jammed between the gear teeth just below it when second was engaged, this would mean this gear cluster was sitting to the left, when the 2 teeth came off they were in close proximity to countershaft second and they jammed between the 2 gears, would explain why no teeth are missing from mainshaft second, which is puzzling as you'd expect them to be meshed but again I think maybe third was in the process of being selected. The selectors look fine, which again is puzzling as you'd expect them to be the cause of this but they clearly aren't. Maybe the PO was a bit clumsy and started the process by catching the 3rd gear tooth edge. Looking again at the pics you can see new damage just under the primary chain and again to the left of that, these were no doubt the result of all the debris getting flung out of the gearbox.
I'm not convinced the bearing spun in the casings, I've never seen them do that before even when the knock pins are squashed flat to the case as in this case, I'd like to see some pics of those bearings in detail to say for sure though, if they had I'd expect to see some damage to the knock pins and I can't see that.
I'd also think about just replacing the entire box,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB550-CB-550-K-F-Four-1974-1978-Gearbox-Gear-Box-Assembly/332536863177?hash=item4d6cbdd9c9:g:V5oAAOSwzRFabzr4
If you just buy a bottom end your going to need a complete set of gaskets as well, plus some time stripping both engines to see if there is any damage. However I'd also point out that the damage caused by crushing the 2 knock pins can sometimes be significant, I'd like to see pics of the sprocket area from the outside to see if the pin came through the casing and also of the clutch area for the same reason.
Oddjob this one!! Lol so thanks.
Yes both sealed and bearings sitting correctly too.
Yes but it's all a part of the learning process. I'll know all this for again and so will my Dad.
Dry run with the Gearbox in last night and it's engaging perfectly. I noticed a slight twist in the Gear Change rod, specifically on the end that has the fork where the clutch is so I ordered a new one of them.
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Guy's stupid question but I'm asking it anyway.
Engine out being rebuilt atm
The Kickstarter shaft etc. We built it but when the chain drive is moving it clicks for want of a better explanation? Is this correct?
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That sound will be the ratchet pawls inside the kickstarter gear, it's normal but with the casings on and the engine running you don't hear it.
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That sound will be the ratchet pawls inside the kickstarter gear, it's normal but with the casings on and the engine running you don't hear it.
Thought that but just wanted to make 100% sure. Coming along nicely and everything is all Ceramic Coated. Treated myself to a dynatek ignition too
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https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550k3-four-england_model14671/collar-shift-drum_24433323010/#.Wui_jEzTWfA
Anyone got one of the above?
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Hi new to the site , First post , been using the american site ,didnt know about this one.got a 77 550 with a smashed 3rd gear. just fit a new trans and drum & forks i got of e bay £80 , seems in good condition , just about to re join cases.
theres quite a long thread i posted on sohc.net.
a bit worried about fiting primary shaft when i have re joined cases , not much room for starter clutch ect , is it best to loosly fit primary chain on sprocket first ? when removing the primary shaft i couldnt get the chain off the sprocket untill i split the cases a little.
cheers Paul
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new transmission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6FB7nxeJh8
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I'll bump this to the top and a few more experts will be along in a minute.
But you assemble the starter clutch/cush drive bits and put the primary chain over and a round the gear and then assemble the cases with it loosely in place and then push the primary shaft through. Careful with the needle bearing.
For reference: You can (just about) remove and replace the starter clutch/cush drive with the cases all assembled by wriggling it free from the primary chain and similarly getting it back, (you have to remove the starter idler gear for this)
but why make the job difficult if your cases are split.
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thanks for the advice , i was thinking of doing it that way.
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Welcome and glad you found us, fitting primary shaft after joining cases is the only way to go
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going to join halves , probably sunday !! . is that blue hylmolar stuff good enough ?
here,s what happened when i split cases , drilled it out though .
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oops
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Noooooooo Hylomar of any colour !!!!. The lightest, lightest smear of Honda Bond, so thin, you can hardly see it.
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thanks , i,ll look for some hondabond !!
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Hondabond or threebond is good stuff but there are different grades available so pick the right one and use very sparingly. I used TB1207B on my NSR250 engine rebuild about 5 or 6 years ago, very thin smear on meteal to metal faces (crank cases). Ridden it regularly since then including several track days and never leaked a drop.
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Got the cases back together ! i fit all the changing mechanism and the gear pedal.
all the gears select fine . i,v just one small concern , maybe i,m being paranoid !
when selecting gears i was rotating input shaft {clutch not fitted yet] c/clockwise to help selection , needed a bit of effort , smooth but had to grip the shaft in palm of hand to turn it ! anyone know if this is normal . i could spin both shafts very ealily with fingers when cases were split .cheers
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Doesn't sound right to me, although others on here have far more direct experience with this engine so may give you better insight.
The original breakage of the gear dogs looks like it's had two gears engaged at the same time which has caused it to shear the drive dogs. That, obviously, shouldn't happen.
I'd look further into it in trying to avoid potentially repeating the original fault. Generally, bike gearboxes without connection to the rest of the drive train will spin with ease and you can rattle them back and forth to get the change sequence checked out.
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yea everything spun freely when cases were apart , all gears selected [ still do ] its just since i joined cases and put primary shaft in !! taking it apart again tomorrow !
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I'd be nervous about it too and do the same as you with another look.
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yea evrything was located fine
Found the problem! split cases again, gears spun ok , put some weight ,pressing down on needle bearing end of input shaft [clutch]and it went tight ! thought it was faulty needle bearing but it looked ok .
i put the same needle bearing on my original input shaft [which was un damaged]all is fine ! put the cases back and everything spins freely !! maybe the shaft on the new transmission i got of ebay is slightly bent , not sure
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Definitely worth another look then.
At least you've now got it so you can feel confident and no nagging question as you start running it again.
All good.
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just a quick update , got everything back together , no oil leaks , spent 2 days on timing /points !!!! looked thru old threads on timing . very helpful , anyway bike started 1st kick so it cant be far out , runs nice ,and the gears are spot on ! only done about a mile though , still lots to do
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I just wanted to say Thanks to everyone in this Thread that helped me out with Advice and pointers, links etc.
Massive help 300/400 miles later and it's better than it's ever been!
Aaron