Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: kenny1059 on July 30, 2015, 03:05:57 PM
-
Hi,
Can someone please tell me (or even better,post a pic.) how much clearance there is between collector box and sump on a 400/4 exhaust.
I bought a system from David @ Saisei,via CMSNL. When I tighten headers,the system is pulled in against one of the bottom fins of the sump :( I'd post a pic, but bike is on ground,so its a bit awkward. There is a bit of play with headers slack,but whenever I tighten them,they are tight against the sump.
David @ Saisei is contacting CMSNL,to see if they have had any feedback about these exhausts.
Ta, Kenny.
-
12 mm minimum . Sorry it's too tightly packed in my garage to photo. It's a NOS .. well new in 1986 genuine exhaust.
Hope this helps ... Ash
-
Hi Kenny
Like you say, very difficult to take pic's but have taken some for you from my 400/4 which may help. Mine has original down pipes/collector.
Regards
Julie
-
Ash-- That is a help. Thank you. :)
Julie-- An even bigger THANK YOU. Don't know how you managed to take these pics. :) :)
Cheers, Kenny.
-
;D ;D ;D ;D Us Nurses are used to getting in to awkward places to peer at strange things Kenny. I'm pleased they are of use to you
Julie
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D.
Kenny.
-
Julie borrowed an endoscope from work.
-
Some of us older ones are offered the pleasure of the endoscope for free on the NHS !
-
Talking of clearances.... My silencer is v close to the tensioner bolt when the bike is the centre stand.
The only thing I can think of , apart from adverse tolerances in the collector, is that those replica shocks are a bit long so the arm sits lower?
-
Some of us older ones are offered the pleasure of the endoscope for free on the NHS !
we have one here that's got an LCD screen on it and only about a month or so old but some tw*t bust it (dropped on floor0) and didn't tell anyone so muggins had to fix it. :'(
-
Some of us older ones are offered the pleasure of the endoscope for free on the NHS !
That's only because we need the practice ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Julie borrowed an endoscope from work.
You know me too well Mike ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Kenny, can you message me the vn number of you bike? Cheers
Dave
-
pm sent,Dave.
Kenny.
-
Has anyone got a set of standard header I can borrow for comparison?
-
I have but id need to post from NI.
-
Thanks for the offer Norniron, I may take you up on it (I can arrange collection) if nobody has some closer.
-
You've done a lot for us on here David. Not using my bike at the moment so prepared to take it off and loan you for, say a month? It was new Genuine Honda and never hardly been run other than about 4 minutes when I first ran up the rebuilt engine.
I am in East Yorkshire but could arrange delivery via work. I need to go to Northallerton in about a months time to go to the North Yorks. County Records Office for data on my 750K0 as it's 'AJ' reg which is North Yorkshire, so I could collect it back then.
Cheers ... Ash
-
Hi Ash, thank you for your kind offer I really don't want to put you to the trouble an risk of removing pipes from your bike. It may be easier for me to send you the stock downpipes/collector for you to make compare?
What do think?
Dave
-
Hi Ash, thank you for your kind offer I really don't want to put you to the trouble an risk of removing pipes from your bike. It may be easier for me to send you the stock downpipes/collector for you to make compare?
What do think?
Dave
I am easy, whatever you want to do David. Realistically,I will have to take the pipes off anyway to compare. I suppose having the bike here to look at the fit may be an advantage though. If it helps you and others, I will do whatever is necessary.
Ash
-
Hi Ash, I am thinking of going to Cadwell on Sunday, might be able to kill two birds with one stone?
-
Sorry Dave .. away most of weekend probably best to send.
Ash
-
It looks like I will have to miss Cadwell this weekend anyway. I can come down when it is convenient to you.
Cheers
Dave
-
Had fun and games checking the Saisei pipes with a NOS Honda silencer. I can get it all to fit but only after slackening the header clamps then inserting the two silencer to frame bolts ('75 bike no bracket), Then gradually tightening everything up . There is a gap about 8mm between the collector and the sump. Not sure on the fit of the slencer to header junction though. Does this look correct? Not sure if the collar welded to the collector pipe should be in engagement with the clamp on the silencer or not. Bloody freezing in the garage and the 400/4 is rammed into my garage with an MG Midget stopping me from getting really good access. off for a beer ;D ;D
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2].
-
Anyone?
I need to get these off my bike and back to Saisei ASAP... I am only doing this for the benefit of other members / David @ Saisei, owning 400's, as I have the NOS original Honda pipes on my bike, so not really of any use to me other than anorak fodder.
Perhaps if I remove the headers and make measurements from the two fixed header pipes to a specific point on the output pipe that may reveal any differences. Or does anybody have any other suggestions please?
Cheers ... Ash
-
Hi Ash
Not quite sure what measurement your looking for but I have just looked at mine and I have 8-10mm between the side of the collector and the sump. Mine are standard original down pipes / collector. The silencer to collector box join on mine has no gap at all.
-
Thinking of removing the Saisei = CMS NL = Yamiya downpipes and comparing with my NOS Honda set. Like in photo attached. Also push the collector towards the wall and make comparison measurements from wall to relevant points. Open to suggestions?
Any thoughts.
My initial opinion of these pipes is:-
Chroming/welding as good if not better than OEM (OEM Honda had silver paint on some of the welded joints HONEST !!!)
Appearance ... almost like OEM..... would need anorak like me to fault it and much better than the initial repro's that DS sold (he sells much nicer ones now ..not sure if the same as Ymiya/CMS)
Will fit but needs tweaking with bracketry possibly (F2 late F1).. May need to open the slotted holes on frame mount lugs on F/F1 (pillion mounted footrests like mine).
Worst point is NOT double skinned like OEM which is a bl**dy shame , that in this day and age nobody can successfully manufacture within a budget.
Cheers ...Ash[attachimg=1]
-
I have standard pipes already off the bike, tatty and rusty but may serve your purpose, in Seaham ?
Steve
-
I have standard pipes already off the bike, tatty and rusty but may serve your purpose, in Seaham ?
Steve
Cheers I already have the NOS Honda set taken off my 400/4 and then the plan is to remove the Saisei ones I have for evaluation and compare. Cheers for the offer though.
-
Measured 'em and looking at the assemblies side by side there is a slight difference.
This results in the angle of the exit of the outlet pipe being slightly different. Therefore, with the Saisei assembly, you have to lift the rear end slightly more to get the silencer to fit the bracket and in doing so there is a tendency to move the collector slightly closer to the sump. Having said that I could get the Saisei pipes to fit OK after carefully readjustment and tightening gradually, achieving a sump to collector clearance of around 8mm . This was greater on the stock pipes by about 5mm (12-13mm). This was with a standard HM377 Honda silencer, not the Brituro/Yamiya/Dave Silver replica and on an Aug '75 F model with pillion mounted footrests (exhaust mounts welded on frame, not separate bracket as on late F1/F2's)
Hope this helps!
P.S. You can tell Honda double skinned headers on 400/4, 500/4 by the four spot welds at the flanged end of the pipes. Presumably they take two concentric tubes, spot weld them at the flanged end and then bend. I don't know why this has to be so difficult to do nowadays as opposed to 1975. Not dissected pipe but I think the double skinning extends to about 1/3 of the pipe length, enough to take the heat out of the exhaust gases.[attachimg=1]
-
Hi Ash,
Those are not insignificant differences, I will send the pictures and comments to CMS for comment.
Many thanks for your help. Very much appreciated.
Regards
Dave
-
That measurement is not the one that really matters is it ?
The overall length being "out" might just put the silencer forward or back slightly.
The drop from the exhaust flanges to the collector would perhaps be relevant.
Maybe measure from the top of each flange to the flloor?
-
That measurement is not the one that really matters is it ?
The overall length being "out" might just put the silencer forward or back slightly.
The drop from the exhaust flanges to the collector would perhaps be relevant.
Maybe measure from the top of each flange to the flloor?
No that wouldnt work ..it's the angle the silencer sits at that's slightly out
-
I see that now !
As the collector is made independently of the headers , the error in the alignment of the header sockets and the silencer stub during fabrication needs tight control..... and the tooling didn't provide it, evidently.
I am a bit concerned too - I bought a set from Motad !
-
I see that now !
As the collector is made independently of the headers , the error in the alignment of the header sockets and the silencer stub during fabrication needs tight control..... and the tooling didn't provide it, evidently.
I am a bit concerned too - I bought a set from Motad !
I don't think they are from Motad ... not entirely sure ... Dave@Saisei may know. DS is very tight lipped on where his come from and doesn't wish to get involved in this discussion but I suspect his come from Motad. One thing I do know is Saisei replica silencer = David Silver = Yamiya ....... All made by Britura in Brum (member here).
-
The system DS used to sell where the four pipes were separate from the collector was made by Motad.
The system DS now sell has two pipes fixed to the collector as per the original system.
I was told by Ian (formerly of Motad, before he retired) that DS sourced these from elsewhere, a suspicion being China.