Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Sesman on July 10, 2021, 09:15:40 AM
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Help needed please. I’ve seen lots written on this topic, but would appreciate some advice on an economic source for primary chain, primary rubbers and cam chain.
Would also appreciate some advice on the can chain tensioner blade. I can’t make out if the blade should have chain run witness marks or if as new it should be flat.
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Primary chain kawasaki, cam chain did, rubbers Honda.
That tensioner is fine unless the rubber is spliting off the ends
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Thanks Bryanj. No evidence of splitting at the ends.
Cheers.
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I followed Bryan's advice and used a Kawasaki primary chain on my CB500 K1. Here's a link to the supplier I used.
https://www.motorcyclespareparts.eu/en/kawasaki-parts/920571011?currency=GBP&withvat=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxZvMhMah7gIVyrTtCh39NQiJEAQYASABEgIWtPD_BwE
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Hi, Oddjob. Really appreciate the insights and to be fair I’d already resolved to replace the blade. I’m not on too tight a budget and I won’t be ‘going in’ again.
I’d budgeted for primary, primary rubbers, cam chain and potentially new shells. I’ll also be replacing the main shaft bearings. The bores and pistons are ‘pristine’, but I’m refreshing with new rings and a head overhaul. The guides and valves are fine, though the exhausts are surprisingly heavily carbonised.
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High Charlie J. Thanks for the info. That will save me a few Bob. Presumably the cB550 and CB500 primaries are identical?
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Sound, thanks.
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The grooves are cut in by the chain sodeplates within a very short time the the rollers run on the rubber, i was trying to gauge how far the centre was below the outers and it looked negligible in the photo
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I’d say this is shagged?
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Furkled, crodged, burglered or any othe adjective you have
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CB650 tensioner….is this a ‘bolt on’ or a fiddle?
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Machining work plus the problem of finding one
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Ok, thanks. New chain and leave as standard.
Blade, blade rubbers, primary rubbers, primary and camchain now ordered.
I’ve discovered that the rear 16mm engine mounting bolt doubles nicely as an improvised slide hammer to remove the primary shaft. But I’m guessing most on this forum already new that?
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Anybody know where I might obtain the primary output shaft bearing part no 91002283000.
Part no34. Seems to be unobtainable?
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Hi, oddjob. Thanks for that. The engine is in bits, lots of them. Amazing how much space a dismantled engine occupies. I’m reading those articles right now.
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Quick question all. To replace the primary drive rubbers do I just remove the shaft snap ring or do I need to dismantle the starter gear (three jis screws).
Thanks in advance.
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Yes
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Thanks Bryanj…just the snap ring?
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Bugger me. It’s off and the rubbers appear to be just fine…all soft and yielding. Tomorrow I’ll compare with the items I ordered from DS.
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Some oils are nicer to rubber parts than others, at least in my experience.
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Which ones?
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I should add that this machine has been stood idle for 40 plus years having covered 19k miles. I’ll replace them now, but a good lesson in checking prior to order.
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Its unusual to see them ok after that time
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Which ones?
I have good results with Castrol High Mileage 15W-40.
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Hi, Bryanj. So I understand, but they seem fine. I’ll compare with the new replacements I’ve ordered, today.
Incidentally all the evidence suggests this motor has never been apart. Wonder if Mr Honda changed the rubber formula during production.
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Thanks delta rider. Do hope I haven’t triggered an oil debate ;).
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I doubt that those rubbers changed, heat cycles would affect more than age but age does it as well
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I can only share my personal findings. In the past I've used various oils. The one I disliked most, was the Mobil 1, in those days regarded as the very best. On the top of the Pyrenees at the French Spanish border, I detected leaks at the oil pump seals. Some months later a little smoke on decelaration indicated leaking valve stem seals. They have been replaced in an top end overhaul. Ever since I've used that Castrol High Mileage, I have had no further oil leaks (apart from the head). On the contrary: the notorious shifter seal which leaked a lot before, seems to have cured it self. Although Castrol seems to have abandoned the name 'High Mileage', some oil suppliers in their sites stress, it's still the same High Mileage oil. You may also want to read this: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,187317.msg2171984.html#msg2171984
Note that these are my personal findings on my CB500. I cannot comment on the condition of the rubber parts in the engine: I've never set eyes on them.
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If the primary unit came apart very easy then the rubbers are worn. You will find this out when you try to reassemble the unit and find it tight. A smear of red rubber grease makes it easier to get it back together ;)
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Hi, Trigger. I very much appreciate your input. The drive needed a sharp downward rap Ona piece of softwood, then leverage. It certainly didn’t fall apart and needed persuasion. I’ve just received new replacements and will report shortly. Thanks again.
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Ok, new primary rubbers have arrived. Absolutely no perceptible difference between new and old. I think I’ll be returning them?
Slipper blade total thickness is identical the new one, apart from the cam chain side plate tracks. It does however have a cure of significantly greater radius than the new one. The new one is also slightly stiffer to bend…slightly I’d say.
Not sire how you extract the horseless rubbers out of the tensioner unit though?
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That don't make sense, unless someone has changed the rubbers recently without doing the chain as, a worn chain will feck rubbers and worn rubbers will snatch and stretch the chain ;)
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I know…bizarre, but this engine has never been apart. Nothing shows signs of disturbance.
I’ve taken one new rubber out of the bag and the two items are identical in feel when pressing, twisting and bending.
Must be some kind of miracle :o
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Meant to say. Oddly enough the tensioner bump stops were as hard as marble as predicted by oddjob. Think I’ll just replace the lot. Anybody want to buy some used, but perfect primary drive rubbers?
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I managed to pry them out with a pick. All reassembled now. I’ll keep the old stuff as you suggest as it’s got lots of service life. May save somebody’s build in the future.
Incidentally, just been quoted £300 + vat to blast the head, cylinders and cases ready for paint. That won’t be happening…Wow
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For,those who may be interested, images of new vs old hy-vo chain.
Original was a tm-hy-vo. Replacement claiming to be Kawasaki is a Morse.
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For my education, the chain supplied by msg is claimed to be an ‘original part manufactured by Kawasaki “. So ‘Morse’ is owned by Kawasaki?
I thought Morse was an American company? Is Morse a genuine Kawasaki primary drive chain part?
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Kawasaki is a significant engineering company, but wasn't aware of Morse ownership. Possible though.
Quite an interesting history though for the chain type, often referred to as "Morse" from multiple link plates effectively making a linear gear.
Think that Borg Warner transmission holds the rights to the "Hi-Vo" description as they developed it to that high velocity iteration from Morse foundation. Tooth form etc was intrinsically part of that research and development.
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Some thoughts on it here http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,25001.0.html
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They have translated it wrong and mean original part SUPPLIED by Kawasaki.
It is possible they manufacture under licence from Morse but they are probably too busy building ships for that
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Origins in 1917 for plant machinery
[attachimg=1]
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Coventry_Chain_Co
:)
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N
"Noiseless!" They never heard a 500 at tickover
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Love that Coventry chain item…class :). Noisy 500…get a 550.
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Just as bad
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:) :)