Post by: jon stead on August 06, 2017, 10:22:36 AM
Post by: jon stead on August 06, 2017, 10:26:08 AM
Post by: hairygit on August 06, 2017, 10:35:53 AM
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
Post by: matthewmosse on August 06, 2017, 01:57:38 PM
Post by: Bryanj on August 06, 2017, 02:30:43 PM
Post by: jon stead on August 06, 2017, 04:17:57 PM
Post by: jon stead on August 06, 2017, 04:29:30 PM
It says 2.0 kg m - 2.2 kg m (19.6 Nm to 21.6 Nm)
Post by: jon stead on August 06, 2017, 04:30:11 PM
Post by: mike the bike on August 06, 2017, 09:06:52 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 06, 2017, 09:11:42 PM
The correct method is to tighten them until they shear off, then loosen them quarter of a turn.
I wondered where I had been going wrong ;D
Post by: jon stead on August 14, 2017, 12:59:59 PM
DSS are only showing exh valve guide 12023324405, and this is out of stock. I don't see the inlet valve guides on DSS site. Does the inlet valve guide have a different part number to the exhaust one.
I am emailing a supplier in Germany, as we type, but in case this falls through, does anybody know where I could get the valve guides I need please?
1973 500 K2
Post by: Trigger on August 14, 2017, 07:12:51 PM
They are available from CMSNL.
Post by: jon stead on August 15, 2017, 03:09:50 AM
I have been reading some of your threads on this 500K2 and now I am wondering why you think you need valve guides ?
They are available from CMSNL.
Hi Trigger
Yes, you are right to wonder why I need new valve guides. I am embarrassed to admit that I bent the valves and cracked the guides when I replaced the cylinder cover after removing it to check the valve timing. I am not only embarrassed but so angry with myself to have made this schoolboy error.
Anyway, what is done is done, I've learned by an expensive mistake but my bike will only get better for it.
Thanks for the CMSNL info. What a great site. Do you know where they are based?
Edit: I see now that CMSNL must be the Dutch arm of CMS
Post by: Bryanj on August 15, 2017, 07:16:25 AM
Post by: Trigger on August 15, 2017, 07:16:38 AM
To put new guilds in the head needs to be very hot, going this job can create more problems.
1) Due to the amount of heat needed, it is best to re-grind the seats, as they may distort a little, they only need kissing if not pitted. (Grind the seats, these do not like being cut)
2) Due to the amount of heat needed, always check the flatness of the head after and re-face if needed.
3) Who ever carries out this work, make sure they know what they are doing.
On replacing rocker housing, all tappets out and use the elastic band trick.
Post by: jon stead on August 15, 2017, 08:17:39 AM
Yes, a very expensive error..
To put new guilds in the head needs to be very hot, going this job can create more problems.
1) Due to the amount of heat needed, it is best to re-grind the seats, as they may distort a little, they only need kissing if not pitted. (Grind the seats, these do not like being cut)
2) Due to the amount of heat needed, always check the flatness of the head after and re-face if needed.
3) Who ever carries out this work, make sure they know what they are doing.
On replacing rocker housing, all tappets out and use the elastic band trick.
Thanks Trigger. Reputable shop doing the work and I'd already thought about refitting cylinder cover using elastic bands between corresponding inlet and exh valves.
I'll let you all know how I get on.
Post by: Bryanj on August 15, 2017, 08:40:40 AM
Post by: Colonial-Clive (yindi) on August 15, 2017, 12:21:47 PM
Post by: paul G on August 15, 2017, 12:32:33 PM
Yes, a very expensive error..
To put new guilds in the head needs to be very hot, going this job can create more problems.
1) Due to the amount of heat needed, it is best to re-grind the seats, as they may distort a little, they only need kissing if not pitted. (Grind the seats, these do not like being cut)
2) Due to the amount of heat needed, always check the flatness of the head after and re-face if needed.
3) Who ever carries out this work, make sure they know what they are doing.
On replacing rocker housing, all tappets out and use the elastic band trick.
Thanks Trigger. Reputable shop doing the work and I'd already thought about refitting cylinder cover using elastic bands between corresponding inlet and exh valves.
I'll let you all know how I get on.
I used a very reputable shop in Sheffield initials SS and they fucked it up big time.
Ended up having it all done again. >:( >:(
Post by: jon stead on August 15, 2017, 01:29:29 PM
No matter how reputable the shop check if they know that the guides will need reaming after fitting and need doing to an exact size or its a waste of time and money
Thanks, I will double check although I'm pretty confident this guy knows what he's doing.
http://www.milwaukeemuscle.co.uk/
Post by: jon stead on August 15, 2017, 01:30:30 PM
There are bronze guides from America you can get on eBay £130 + £20 post
I saw some on Dynodam, was it, but I've placed an order with CMSNL now. Thanks for the info though.
Post by: paul G on August 15, 2017, 02:41:51 PM
No matter how reputable the shop check if they know that the guides will need reaming after fitting and need doing to an exact size or its a waste of time and money
Thanks, I will double check although I'm pretty confident this guy knows what he's doing.
http://www.milwaukeemuscle.co.uk/
Harley V twins Trigger is going to have something to say about that ;) ;) ;D
Post by: jon stead on August 16, 2017, 04:46:49 AM
Full overhaul consists of vapour blast, guides installed and sized, 3 angle seat recut and head skimmed.
Just waiting on the guides now from CMSNL. Anybody had parts from these guys? Are they efficient?
Post by: Trigger on August 16, 2017, 06:46:05 AM
Post by: flatfour on August 16, 2017, 08:31:57 AM
Once I needed to return a part (incorrect to packaging and also the description on screen/exploded drawing) and it worked well enough, they checked stock and found all others the same so obtained a fresh batch from the supplier. That took around six weeks, although they did offer a refund if preferred.
The important point is that if you need to return anything, you do need to use their "Ticket" system. When I returned the kick - start spring mentioned above, they gave me a named person in their office to communicate with who kept me up - to - date with timings for the replacement.
In short, I have been more than satisfied so far. (I hope that I'm not speaking too soon, with my latest order still to be delivered!).
Post by: jon stead on August 16, 2017, 11:04:10 AM
I've used CMSNL for parts over quite a few years, as their stock seems to be wider than DS. At present I have an order in with them, it was placed on Monday last and a shipping date of 28th August came up on the same day. Perhaps because I mainly use them for the more obscure parts, delivery usually takes 2 - 3 weeks.
Once I needed to return a part (incorrect to packaging and also the description on screen/exploded drawing) and it worked well enough, they checked stock and found all others the same so obtained a fresh batch from the supplier. That took around six weeks, although they did offer a refund if preferred.
The important point is that if you need to return anything, you do need to use their "Ticket" system. When I returned the kick - start spring mentioned above, they gave me a named person in their office to communicate with who kept me up - to - date with timings for the replacement.
In short, I have been more than satisfied so far. (I hope that I'm not speaking too soon, with my latest order still to be delivered!).
Hi flatfour
I've just rang them and they assured me the vlave guides would be dispatched today or tomorrow, via UPS and that I'd get a tracking number.
2-3 weeks delivery? From Holland? Wow. Oh well, if that's what it is, then that's what it is.
Thanks for your input, appreciated.
Post by: jon stead on August 16, 2017, 11:54:16 AM
Jim is a good old boy, just remind him that it is a Honda engine and not a Harley ;D
Yes, only spoken to him on the phone and via email but comes across as a genuine guy who is passionate about motorbikes.
Post by: flatfour on August 16, 2017, 03:22:55 PM
This is really little different to Kawasaki (for instance) as they operate today. Parts are bought in from suppliers, shipped to Japan if originally from overseas (luggage kits as an example) and then shipped to Holland, before finally being sent to the UK for dealer stock or order fulfilment. (I found this when my GTR needed a replacement drive shaft under warranty and my Versys 1000 a new pannier, as the original leaked from new).
When your parts are dispatched from CMSNL, it will probably be only three days or so before they arrive at your door!
Post by: jon stead on August 17, 2017, 04:30:30 PM
In respect of the delivery times for my items from CMSNL, I think that before they made it to Holland for packing and dispatch to me as the end user, they were in transit across an ocean somewhere as they were non - stock items, or even still at the factory if pattern parts.
This is really little different to Kawasaki (for instance) as they operate today. Parts are bought in from suppliers, shipped to Japan if originally from overseas (luggage kits as an example) and then shipped to Holland, before finally being sent to the UK for dealer stock or order fulfilment. (I found this when my GTR needed a replacement drive shaft under warranty and my Versys 1000 a new pannier, as the original leaked from new).
When your parts are dispatched from CMSNL, it will probably be only three days or so before they arrive at your door!
Thanks flatfour. I have a UPS tracking number now and they claim delivery will be tomorrow, Friday. If that's true, then happy days.
Post by: jon stead on August 19, 2017, 06:33:11 AM
Cmsnl.com
Post by: jon stead on August 26, 2017, 04:16:51 PM
Head cleaned
Seats cut
Seat height adjusted
Post by: Bryanj on August 26, 2017, 08:34:39 PM
Post by: jon stead on August 27, 2017, 07:12:17 AM
That looks real Purdy mate
Yes, I'm looking forward to getting it back on the bike, although im away for another three weeks yet.
Post by: hairygit on August 27, 2017, 07:28:03 AM
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
Post by: jon stead on August 27, 2017, 03:23:24 PM
It looks so nice and clean, it seems a shame to bolt it together and make it invisible inside the engine. Maybe it would look great in a glass display case in your living room.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
By the time I've finished putting it back together, that might be all it's fit for
Post by: jon stead on August 30, 2017, 10:37:07 AM
Head milled, valves and seats lapped. Ready for collection today.
Post by: jon stead on August 30, 2017, 01:00:46 PM
Head vacuum tested to prove seat and valve are tight.
Proper job.
Post by: jon stead on September 14, 2017, 05:46:06 AM
I am feeding the cam shaft through the chain and loose sprocket, from the right, but can't get enough slack in the chain to get it onto the sprocket. I've loosened the cam chain tensioner, at least I believe I have. How many turns can the tensioner bolt go in? I thought it was only a small amount of movement between full range of adjustment?
I got rained off yesterday, and jet lag got the better of me, so I'll be back at it today. Any thoughts, tips, encouragement, would be gratefully accepted.
Post by: Trigger on September 14, 2017, 06:44:02 AM
I'm back home, the head's back home and yesterday I put it on the bike. All was going well until I tried to put the cam shaft back. I can't get the timing chain onto the sprocket.
I am feeding the cam shaft through the chain and loose sprocket, from the right, but can't get enough slack in the chain to get it onto the sprocket. I've loosened the cam chain tensioner, at least I believe I have. How many turns can the tensioner bolt go in? I thought it was only a small amount of movement between full range of adjustment?
I got rained off yesterday, and jet lag got the better of me, so I'll be back at it today. Any thoughts, tips, encouragement, would be gratefully accepted.
First mistake people make is the guide blade in the wrong way round. It needs to face outwards so, you have the blade then chain between the blade and the outside front of the barrels and head. Make sure this is correct.
Secondly, I am not sure what tensioner bolt you are referring to ? You should not bolt anything up until the chain is on the sprocket. Or have any bolts in place.
Post by: jon stead on September 14, 2017, 08:34:13 AM
I'm back home, the head's back home and yesterday I put it on the bike. All was going well until I tried to put the cam shaft back. I can't get the timing chain onto the sprocket.
I am feeding the cam shaft through the chain and loose sprocket, from the right, but can't get enough slack in the chain to get it onto the sprocket. I've loosened the cam chain tensioner, at least I believe I have. How many turns can the tensioner bolt go in? I thought it was only a small amount of movement between full range of adjustment?
I got rained off yesterday, and jet lag got the better of me, so I'll be back at it today. Any thoughts, tips, encouragement, would be gratefully accepted.
First mistake people make is the guide blade in the wrong way round. It needs to face outwards so, you have the blade then chain between the blade and the outside front of the barrels and head. Make sure this is correct.
Secondly, I am not sure what tensioner bolt you are referring to ? You should not bolt anything up until the chain is on the sprocket. Or have any bolts in place.
On the front if the engine I have the chain between the blade and the outside as you say.
The tensioner bolt I refer to is the adjustment screw, which I have in the tensioner fully slack position, untensioned, or fully retracted back towards rear of engine.
When you say nothing should be bolted up, I take it you're referring only to the tensioner and not the head? I have the head torqued up, including the two M6 bolts front and back of engine. There is only the one bolt for the tensioner, through the cylinder head, at the top of the tensioner. Is this the one that should be left out until after fitting the camshaft and chain!
Post by: jon stead on September 14, 2017, 08:41:24 AM
I was putting the camshaft in from the right of the engine but had the chain on the left of the sprocket. Removed camshaft and sprocket, refitted, still from the right, but this time arranged it so chain was on the right if the sprocket. Went in easily.
Jet lag moment, no? Just lack of experience. Live and learn.
Post by: Trigger on September 14, 2017, 08:43:00 AM
Post by: jon stead on September 14, 2017, 09:53:10 AM
The tensioner is automatic, do not try to turn that bolt with the cut in it or you will break it.
Yes, I knew tensioner was spring loaded. All I've done is slacken the tensioner screw locknut, and gently turn the adjusting screw in clockwise, about half a turn. Whilst I did this, I could see the tensioner shoe, retract. Nipped up locknut and carried on putting in the camshaft. Once it's all rebuilt, I'll slacken the lock nut and let the tensioner screw slowly reposition itself before retightening the locknut.
I'm at a dead stop again now though. Can't find one of the cyl head cover locating dowels - grrrrr!
Post by: jon stead on September 14, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Off out to get a set. Might call it a day anyway and continue tomorrow.
Post by: Trigger on September 14, 2017, 11:46:38 AM
The tensioner is automatic, do not try to turn that bolt with the cut in it or you will break it.
Yes, I knew tensioner was spring loaded. All I've done is slacken the tensioner screw locknut, and gently turn the adjusting screw in clockwise, about half a turn. Whilst I did this, I could see the tensioner shoe, retract. Nipped up locknut and carried on putting in the camshaft. Once it's all rebuilt, I'll slacken the lock nut and let the tensioner screw slowly reposition itself before retightening the locknut.
I'm at a dead stop again now though. Can't find one of the cyl head cover locating dowels - grrrrr!
Good man, I fix tooo many of those tensioners >:(
Are these the dowels you are looking for ;D Building a 500K1 at the moment myself ;)
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=1]
Post by: jon stead on September 14, 2017, 05:07:31 PM
Off out to get a set. Might call it a day anyway and continue tomorrow."
Trigger, I posted the above in the post before your last one, if that makes sense.
Anyway, I went to Halfrauds, got some feelers, set the tappets, cranked engine over by hand a few times, put the carbs back on and packed up for the day, come to the caravan. Only exhausts left to put on then ready for fire up. Probably Monday now.
Post by: jon stead on September 15, 2017, 05:49:00 PM
In the mean time, I still have the same problem, in lack of power above 6,000 rpm. I'm beginning to think the electronic ignition system might not be performing as it should.