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Messages - K2-K6

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Misc / Open / Re: Casting rubber parts
« on: February 29, 2024, 10:29:14 PM »
Maybe of use as used to make things like this late 1970s for bespoke bike bracketry....... Black silicone rubber sealant, using a little acetic acid as accelerator/catalyst to reduce cure time.

About 2~3% by volume to try a first run, was pretty close to original factory type rubbers when cured.

Misc / Open / Re: Casting rubber parts
« on: February 29, 2024, 03:02:42 PM »
Nice work on both items there

CB750 / Re: LED lights
« on: February 29, 2024, 02:44:07 PM »
thanks for your input and good to know you're getting out and about on your Honda.

I'm still using the original rectifier and voltage regulator on my CB750F1, but did once have have an overcharging problem which I fixed with info gleaned from this forum. (But that's maybe for another subject thread).
However my new battery and charging system now works exactly as it should, I fitted a voltage meter to keep an eye on it.

Sometimes I do stuff without considering the consequences such as fitting the halogen headlight bulb.

As Bryan mentions the generator needs high revs, but that's not always possible in city stop/start traffic so it's not enough to replenish the battery voltage lost whilst idling at standstill.
Also I have a Boyer electronic ignition system fitted which apparently cuts out if the battery voltage is too low.

So I've learned the hard way that the charging system can just about cope in city traffic when the bike is in standard original spec.
Anyhow all this has been gone over in a previous thread where Julie mentions what I've just learned!

So back to the original thread subject, I'm hoping LED bulbs should help lower the power loss in city traffic.

Skoti, pride comes before a fall... started the bike this morning and plugged in my heated jacket and it died. No lights, no starter. Dead. Fuses are OK. So I'm dusting off my wiring diagram. It serves me right! Too much load somewhere. Should have known better!  :-\

If you can't find it readily, then check the pins both in and out at the rear of the ignition switch itself.

If you're taking power out somewhere to heat that's also passing through that switch, then it may not take the load.

CB350/400 / Re: Fine tuning?
« on: February 29, 2024, 11:30:45 AM »
Seems to be the way from what i can see....well, can i chuck that adititive in the tank with the fuel and run it...or am i stripping the carbs down!?

Adding stabilizer now won't hurt it, so safe to dose as recommended then gauge effects.

Firstly though, stsrt from cold, run 30 seconds, switch off .... now check each exhaust for temperature, just with your hand to see if they are all running. A cold one shows that cylinder out/not running .... which will give you the pulling away and idle problems you described.

Initially if that's the case, pull that plug to inspect and check its sparking as a first intervention. If wet or gummy, clean then check sparks ok, refit and try it again.

SOHC Singles & Twins / Re: My first project - 1974 CB360 K0
« on: February 24, 2024, 11:23:45 AM »
My view of the rocker faces, they definitely need attention....Newman cams a good place to have them repaired and reground to specification.

The pitting on them directly wrecks the oil film that's supposed to keep the materials apart (follower and camshaft) with likely a short life thereafter. This is often the result of poor oil condition from servicing and or, dilution of the oil from petrol contamination, short journeys etc.

Generally looks pretty clean and good condition in there.

Agree with casting marks,  the method of die-casting has a jigsaw puzzle of moulds to form the shape in which to cast, when opened to get the crankcase out then imperfect mould joints leave these characteristic split lines where those joints exist. Not detrimental at all.

Misc / Open / Re: Do Honda Destroy Redundant Stock?
« on: February 22, 2024, 10:09:15 AM »
Don't think there's any interest in motorcycling within BBC programming at all.

Additionally, anyone that's worked for a Japanese company will recognise an extreme aversion to public scrutiny of something that has gone wrong. A very serious view and not to be underestimated how powerfully avoided if possible.  To keep that trust, even as employee from a different nation is a valuable attribute in their eyes. Probably low chance of co-operation all round.

CB500/550 / Re: Front hub bearings
« on: February 21, 2024, 09:48:31 PM »
The retained bearing in wheels sets the whole wheel alignment in the frame/forks to facilitate everything relating to it.

The non retained bearing is essentially floating and only then held in alignment by the spacer and then the spindle being tightened, all "slaved" off that retained bearing recess as singular datum.

Misc / Open / Re: Do Honda Destroy Redundant Stock?
« on: February 21, 2024, 08:22:26 AM »
Some time ago, a friend working within a landfill management company had very regular consignment from them as the site he worked on then was near to significant UK warehouse of theirs. Usually accompanied by a company representative to ensure it was buried on arrival, not damaged though as alot of it got pulled out after observation went away.
Common then was a site "totter" and believe me no metal ever went into the ground, cash changed hands for totting rights as it were, pretty lucrative too.

Many of these consignment were straight off the shelf and still packaged with all identification intact.

It's not often realised, but effective accounting practice has stock held rising in price the longer it stays, inventory logged, availability ensured, etc eventually costs just too much to keep it at all from a properly operated system with warehousing etc. Dumping it is cost effective.

Companies we see now (particularly with Internet searches to find it) are different businesses in specialised "long tail" trading, with low cost warehouse facilities and maximising availability channels, DS being an example of this. The "bay" being another with virtual warehousing when people find this stuff in lofts/sheds etc.

CB500/550 / Re: Brake calliper silicone grease
« on: February 19, 2024, 07:53:48 PM »
There's some general restrictions on usage of different product.

Petroleum based ( vaseline etc) you'd not use unless specifically demanded by manufacturer direction, unlikely in what I've seen.

The ATE paste for assembley, appears to have the same properties as traditional red rubber grease in its directions, notably it's not compatible with silicone fluids, if anyone was to think about that combination. Red rubber grease is I understand vegetable oil based

Excerpt from ATE published directions in regard to THAT ATE product noted above.

"ATE brake cylinder paste
The brake cylinder paste is used for the repair, assembly
and corrosion preservation of internal brake components.
Its lubricity also enhances ease of fitting, especially of
rubber parts on metal surfaces.
The brake cylinder paste is not splashwaterproof. Its use
is therefore restricted to internal surfaces in protected or
sealed installation positions.
The brake cylinder paste is used for hydraulic brake
systems designed for operation with brake fluid based
on polyglycol ethers according to the standards FMVSS
116 (DOT 3, DOT 4, DOT 5.1), SAE J1703 and DIN ISO
4925. It is not planned for usage in brake systems with
a silicone or mineral oil based hydraulic fluid.
Although, as a rule, plastic components (such as pis￾tons) which are resistant to brake fluid are also resistant
to the brake cylinder paste, the compatibility of plastics
with brake cylinder paste must be tested. The same
applies to organic coatings.
The brake cylinder paste must be kept away from the
surfaces of friction linings or brake discs.
The paste has a long-term temperature stability ranging
from -40° C/ –40° F to 100° C/212° F and temporarily
resists temperatures up to approx. 200° C/392° F.
The brake cylinder paste is available in
3 consistencies:
Consistency Container Item code
pasty 180 g tube 03.9902-05xx.2
soft 5 kg bucket 03.9902-0503.2
40 kg bucket 03.9902-0504.2
free-flowing 5 kg bucket 03.9902-0505.2
40 kg bucket 03.9902-0506.2
The brake cylinder paste is not a lubricating grease with
a stable consistency. Under the influence of mechanical￾dynamic processes, such as flowing and stirring, an
increasing reduction of consistency occurs which disap￾pears again when the process ends. Thus, the specifi￾cation of a defined viscosity value is not reasonable.
Above approx. 70° C/158° F an increasing liquefaction
of the thickener sets in which is almost reversible on
cooling down.
Specific values:
n Dropping point for pasty tube quality (DIN ISO 2176):
<80° C/176° F
n Flash point of base oil (DIN EN ISO 2719):
>145° C/293° F
n Low-temperature stability (all consistencies)
after storage at –30° C/ –22° F for 1 week:
soft, brushable
after storage at –40° C/ –40° F for 24 h: not solid
n Swelling of rubber (DIN ISO 4925 Item 5.11, determined
on SBR test cup seal RM-3a, 70 h/100° C/212° F):
Change in volume: 0 to +6%
Change in hardness: 0 to –10 IRHD
The brake cylinder paste shall be applied as a thin,
uniform film or in dots applied by means of an automatic
lubricating system.
Contact of the brake cylinder paste with friction lining
surfaces and brake discs must be avoided.
n Shelf life (information for a storage temperature from
0° C/32° F to +40° C/104° F):
Tubes: 3 years
Buckets: 2 years
When not in use, the container must be kept tightly
During storage and transport of the paste, changes
of consistency (rigidification) or partial separation may
occur, especially when the maximum storage tempera￾ture is exceeded. This behaviour, however, does not
adversely affect the usabilty of the paste. A consistency
which permits the usage of the paste can be reestab￾lished by mechanical treatment of the paste (e.g. agitat￾ing), if necessary by additional warming to a maximum
temperature of +40° C/104° F.
On agitating, it has to be made sure that no particles,
e.g. from the container, from the agitating tool or by
exterior contamination get into the paste which may
adversely affect braking components on application of
the paste.
A Safety Data Sheet as well as additional information
regarding this topic are available under"

CB500/550 / Re: Brake calliper silicone grease
« on: February 19, 2024, 05:31:00 PM »
Wow thanks all that’s great information.

Amazing amount of info, thanks K2-K6.

I’ve ordered some other silicone grease (NLGI 2 grade) just to be safe and will just use the existing tin for general purpose stuff.

What’s the recommendation for the seal? Leave it clean and dry or smear brake fluid etc?

Thanks again.

Back in the day most car wheel cylinder kits all came with a small sachet of red lubricant - I always assumed it was red rubber grease.

Yes I remember those Ted and one of my first trusted tasks given to me by my dad. A little sachet to squeeze onto the components within car wheel cylinders when changing pistons/seals. Brakes always seemed to be quite marginal on cars from my early memories  :)  with drums all found on old BMC stuff.

A little square spanner too for adjustment of shoes when the drum was back in place, a little ritual of maintaining them.

Also gapping the spark plugs as the earth electrode wore down, by tap, tap, tapping it on the rocker cover bolt of A series BMC motor. I felt really important given that responsibility and with a set of feeler gauges to work with  ;D

CB500/550 / Re: Brake calliper silicone grease
« on: February 19, 2024, 05:23:10 PM »
For the seals, I put them in using silicone grease (this seems contentious though) after thoroughly cleaning the the seal groove.

On anything I've completed though it has been long lasting and the most successful I've yet found.

I disagree with using brake fluid, it obviously works, and with zero risk as recommendations go, but favoured silicone grease specifically for the protection against corrosion longer term.

Everyone will have to form their own opinion as to what they are comfortable with though.

CB500/550 / Re: Brake calliper silicone grease
« on: February 19, 2024, 02:20:12 PM »

We can look at product suitability.  There's reasonable cause to consider what we know currently in comparison to that which people have been used to over the years. It's clear to me that silicone grease is suitable to fit brake component together in place of what may have been used previously. Honda manual originally published in late 1960s is clear that silicone is to be used around the outside of the piston and seal "area" and pad to caliper bore too, not making a statement of use ON the singular seal. Stating the temperature range of that silicone grease as   -55~200 C and "do not use Molybdenum grease" its very specific and matches the product specification of currently available product, in so far as the details that are available.
Contemporary view is that silicone grease IS suitable for assembley of the hydraulic seal, making it a one shot solo product with suitability for this task. This, water exclusion, being the most effective way to mitigate galvanic corrosion that produces the degradation around the piston from any road salt ingress that gives electrolyte capability, then eroding the aluminium to produce that characteristic and typically white corrosion, which ultimately seizes the brake piston.
It is highly water repellent, one of its most useful attribute, as it (from my, anecdotal experience) has verified to ME. Whether that's of interest you'll have to consider for yourselves.

Some specific product reference here, proprietary brand but the basic ingredient (without marketing puff) is the same silicone grease in these available brands.

"Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Brake Grease with Syncolon® is a NLGI Grade 2 compound designed for caliper and wheel cylinder assembly work as silicone is an excellent lubricant for rubber and plastics. It is compatible with the majority of rubber compounds including nitrile, nylon and other synthetic rubber. See Compatibility Chart under Technical Resources for further details.

Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Brake Grease should be used at every point in the brake system where parts slide or move. With disc brakes, lubrication points include: caliper slides, pins, bushings and contact points where the pads slide within the caliper housing. It can be applied on self-adjuster mechanisms on rear disc brakes with locking calipers, parking brake cables and linkages.

Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Brake Grease can also be used to dampen vibrations between disc brake pads and caliper pistons. It should NOT be applied between the pads and any noise suppression shims. Use it sparingly on the back of a bare pad or between the pad shim and caliper.

Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Brake Grease is dielectric, food grade, clean and environmentally friendly. This product is an NSF registered Food Grade lubricant, rated H1 for incidental food contact and meets USDA 1998 H1 guidelines.

Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Brake Grease is Kosher Certified.

For more information on how to apply our brake grease, click here."

Anecdotal experience, I've used variously silicone brake fluid and grease in brake system since the 1980s, taking contemporary advice then from brake product manufacturers, built systems in competition use some running disc temperatures up until they are yellow  :o designed,   manufactured and maintained components with these materials. Its extensive but I wouldn't consider myself expert, just diligence in appraisal of these materials.
Certainly not a directive in any way on my part, but if there's a counter to this it should be able to hold it's own in reasoning to let others judge for themselves and make valued desicions on their own behalf.
Oh....and backed by metallurgy view from a career metallurgist....also the same from a career employed analytical chemist  ;D

CB500/550 / Re: Brake calliper silicone grease
« on: February 19, 2024, 11:31:45 AM »
I've only used a clear silicone grease for many years.

Unsure what's in that SK22 (doesn't mean it's poor, just really hard to find conclusive information) but note it's food grade product and likely suitable for that type of production line equipment etc.

From safety sheets, it more or less won't do you any harm if you did eat it  :) effectively non toxic and pretty inert in reaction to anything.

White coloured grease often have zinc oxide in them and pretty inert in that form generally (think that's in "Sudocreme" for babies etc) but could be talcum powder as that product refers to anti spatter properties,, logical if used on rotating shafts or similar in food production.  Looks like it could do the job, but I've no experience of using it.

For reference, I'm currently using this for any silicone grease application. Plumbers supply also do convenient small tubs of clear silicone grease to, usually easily available locally.

Project Board / Re: My 750F2 project.
« on: February 14, 2024, 08:13:15 PM »
For us on here ordinarily accustomed to std Honda pistons and their metallurgy gives good appreciation of that supplier and the alloy specified as used here.

You can see,  just within their own range of alloy, that 2618 expands at + 15% over the alternative, let alone the stuff we are referencing and of cast higher silicone content Honda OEM parts....these effectively expanding more or less a match with the cylinder construction.

They'll get to the same clearance once warmed up though.

Project Board / Re: My 750F2 project.
« on: February 14, 2024, 10:49:11 AM »
With no idea what their machinery is like, it's speculative to assess from me.

Usually associated with feed rate in general machining, the tool has to be buried into the material it's cutting, with a wedge shape of the base material being sheared out of its structure as the tool is forced through it in removal.
If the entrance feed was cautious to preserve face of bore, speeded up through mid part, then slowed for exit, this could produce a barrel effect. Basically with higher feed it has more aggressive cut width on each revolution, with the tool being "pulled" further into the wall as it travels with that difference in feed. Its a bit like stripping wallpaper, when you get too much angle on the blade and it's goes "oink~twang" taking a neat little triangle of your plaster with it  :)

You'll get it on a lathe too, with a longer tool extension being a little flexible if reaching a long way in. On that you try to offset that little wedge of removed material by grinding a back rake on top of tool face to minimise that wedge in size, the angle of attack effectively.

Drill bits in lathe headstock do it too, you have to go at it really slowly to stop the drill nose "walking" around in a circle if biting too hard, especially as it's likely there's imbalance across the drill cut blades from one side to another.

It shouldn't happen obviously from a good machine shop, often you'll see experienced machinists going about something in a certain way that may look odd, but experience in that process gives them ways to mitigate shortcomings in process.

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