Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB750 => Topic started by: philward on September 15, 2015, 10:51:29 PM
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Can everybody recommend a source of alloy rims for CB750K Café Racer build? I've seen Central Wheels prices and too pricy for me - I'm sure I read a post on Italian source for rims but can't find it.
Also, will a Gold Wing front rim/hub fit easily with K3-K6 fork legs/disk that I have?
Any help much appreciated
Phil
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This is the company that I used Phil, good quality, I had them laced at central wheels and they said that they were unbranded Borrani rims, evidently Borrani sell unmarked rims to the trade.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CERCHIO-IN-ALLUMINIO-ALUMINUM-RIM-PROFILO-TIPO-BORRANI-RECORD-18-X-2-15-40F-/381364689255?hash=item58cb1b5967
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Thanks Mark - that's a great price - just need a rear drum hub to lace it to now!
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Mark, what size is 19inch front wheel (width)?
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I used 18" front and rear on mine Phil , I can't remember the widths to be honest, I'll have a look on Saturday when I'm at the place the bike is stored, or maybe I can find them in my purchase history on eBay , I'll have a look.
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Phil, I found them in my purchase history, the front was £47 and the rear £62, that was in March 2014, cheers Mark
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/piricambi07?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
BORRANI RECORD " 18" X 3,00 40F REAR
BORRANI RECORD " 18" X 2,15 40F FRONT
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Thanks again Mark
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Got the same ones as Mark but 2.50 rear and 2.15 front. Cost about £300 for lacing with stainless spokes by Central wheels. Sorry about double photos
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z293/galaxy8155/image.jpg1.jpg)][URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/galaxy8155/media/image.jpg1.jpg.html](http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z293/galaxy8155/image.jpg1.jpg) (http://[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/galaxy8155/media/image.jpg1.jpg.html)[/url]
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Lobo
Can you measure the spoke length and thickness for both wheel please - I laced the wheels on my K2 wheels (and local old school bike mechanic done final tightening and balance) but bought spoke sets specific to the standard wheels so didn't need to know the actual sizes. I'm going same route as you and Mark with 18 inch front rim so can't measure my standard front wheel.
Done some research on web and length is from inside of spoke neck/angle to end of threaded spoke.
Found some SS spokes on ebay (Germany) at about £25 squid so big saving on £300 if I can get right spokes.
Anybody else got any thoughts on subject? (am I being too simplistic on trying to do this myself with alloy rims)
Thanks
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Unfortunately I'm in Brunei (work) & my bike is 6000 miles away in Basingstoke... so I can't measure any spokes until late Oct earliest. At 90+ I can't really ask my dad to have a go either - sorry.
A little unsure which wheels you want the spokes measuring for..... when I swapped my Borranis for DID I simply ordered SS off the shelf from Central Wheels. (but yeah, pricey)
Simon
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Thanks anyway Simon - It was front 18 inch that I cant measure. If I havn't sorted by end of October, I'll message you if that's ok.
Mark, any chance you can make a measurement for me?
Thanks again
Phil
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HI Guys
Finally getting round to buying alli rims. Cant find 2.15 x 18 for front wheel at decent price (as per previous post) they seem to have stopped selling them. Any suggestions on alternative width size (18inch) for front wheel?
Thanks
Phil
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Can everybody recommend a source of alloy rims for CB750K Café Racer build? I've seen Central Wheels prices and too pricy for me - I'm sure I read a post on Italian source for rims but can't find it.
Also, will a Gold Wing front rim/hub fit easily with K3-K6 fork legs/disk that I have?
Any help much appreciated
Phil
Hagon Shocks & wheels > https://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/common/pdf/wheels2011.pdf
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You said you wanted 18 on front, Goldwing is 19
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HI Guys
Finally getting round to buying alli rims. Cant find 2.15 x 18 for front wheel at decent price (as per previous post) they seem to have stopped selling them. Any suggestions on alternative width size (18inch) for front wheel?
Thanks
Phil
They're still doing rims, mail them and ask, I bought a pair a couple of years ago, it does help them if you can ask in Italian,
fare voi stock 2.15 x 18 x 40 fori per favour, should work.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=piricambi07&item=262216193139&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xcerchio.TRS0&_nkw=cerchio&_sacat=0
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Thanks Pete - sorry for delay in replying, have been been doing up my recently deceased mums house and not concentrating on the bikes. I'm back on it now! I have messaged them previously with no reply and they are not listing them - have bought 2.50 x 18 from them. Have managed to get a really good SH 2.15 x 18 Akront of ebay.
So next question is spoke sizes as I'm building wheels myself (as I want to do all the work myself as I do with all my bikes - except final standard finish paint on tank, etc) - I need spoke sizes for front and rear 18 inch rims/standard hubs. The SS spokes are available on German ebay at about £40ish posted (Which is loads cheaper than Uk suppliers) . I just need sizes or visible measurements so I can add through the rim length to be able to order sets.
I know I have asked before but if nobody has any info, I can maybe try the American site? I know that Central Wheel and Hagon, etc do them but cost is prohibitive when buying and cost of lacing - I like doing it myself if poss - and I'm tight!
Any help much appreciated
Phil
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Phil I have 18 inch alloys on mine, if I measure from the centre of the hole on the hub to the top of the nipple would that be of any help?
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Sorry for delay again - in the garage messing with bikes (to get away from Big Brother crap!) - that would be great thanks Mark
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Thanks Pete - sorry for delay in replying, have been been doing up my recently deceased mums house and not concentrating on the bikes. I'm back on it now! I have messaged them previously with no reply and they are not listing them - have bought 2.50 x 18 from them. Have managed to get a really good SH 2.15 x 18 Akront of ebay.
So next question is spoke sizes as I'm building wheels myself (as I want to do all the work myself as I do with all my bikes - except final standard finish paint on tank, etc) - I need spoke sizes for front and rear 18 inch rims/standard hubs. The SS spokes are available on German ebay at about £40ish posted (Which is loads cheaper than Uk suppliers) . I just need sizes or visible measurements so I can add through the rim length to be able to order sets.
I know I have asked before but if nobody has any info, I can maybe try the American site? I know that Central Wheel and Hagon, etc do them but cost is prohibitive when buying and cost of lacing - I like doing it myself if poss - and I'm tight!
Any help much appreciated
Phil
phil, SS spokes at £40 seem too cheap mate! Do you have a link ?
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Here you go Graham - see what you think! Value your opinion
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301657350547?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Phil
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Ok Phil I'll measure them tomorrow evening and post the measurements on this thread.
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Thanks Mark - much appreciated
Graham - whats your thoughts on those spokes?
Phil
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Phil these are approximate figures because it's hard to measure spokes in a built wheel but...
Front from centre of hole in hub to base of nipple where it meets the rim 183mm
Rear from centre of hole in hub to base of nipple where it meets the rim 115mm
(http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj582/POR1983/Mobile%20Uploads/image_1.jpeg) (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/POR1983/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_1.jpeg.html)
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Thanks Mark - I can check if that supplier has those sizes.
As an aside - I've just finished Guy Martins latest book 'When you dead - you dead' - if you fancy a good light and sometimes funny read, you are quite welcome to it - I'll post it on as a thanks if you want?
Thanks again
Phil
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Thanks for the offer Phil, wifey got for me at Xmas though, I bumped into him at the TT a couple of years ago, I sort of ignored him knowing he doesn't like to be bothered but he said hello, so he's not as miserable as he likes to makes out!
PS I don't seem to be able to upload photos as I used to so I've used photobucket, has anyone else been having trouble?
PS add a few MM onto those sizes to be safe.
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Ok Mark will do
Anybody else want that book? It will only go in the re-cycling!
Phil
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Send it to me Phil.
There's a thread for his first book (which I have just re-started)
I'll PM the address.
Cheers
Steve
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Thanks Mark - much appreciated
Graham - whats your thoughts on those spokes?
Phil
Look like stainless but, not butted spokes and he lists them at 36 spokes. Hard to work out the sellers measurements.
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Now Mark has provided sizes, I've decided that its best going for some UK sourced spokes. I've contacted http://wheelbuilders.blogspot.co.uk/ (Southport) who has quoted 80 ish squid plus 35 squid to build wheel so will swallow my pride on wanting to do wheel build myself (when I built my K2's wheels, I could just order std spokes and wheels knowing they woulddefo fit).
Ebay provider in Italy has advised he's getting 2.15 x 18 borrani style rim in at end of February, so I'll wait until then. S/H Akront I bought is good but when back Borrani style wheel arrived, I was well impressed so when supplier emailed me, I decided to delay the wheel build.
Any recommendations for tyre sizes for 2.15 x 18 front and 2.50 x 18 rims?
Phil
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Any recommendations for tyre sizes for 2.15 x 18 front and 2.50 x 18 rims?
There is a table on page 7 of this document which may give some guidelines.
http://www.maxxis.co.uk/media/65556/2013-Motorcycle-Tyre-Catalogue.pdf
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Thanks Chris - pub beckons and will have a look when I get back
Cheers
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Any recommendations for tyre sizes for 2.15 x 18 front and 2.50 x 18 rims?
There is a table on page 7 of this document which may give some guidelines.
http://www.maxxis.co.uk/media/65556/2013-Motorcycle-Tyre-Catalogue.pdf
Probably best to have them professionally done Phil, central wheels did mine, they had to do a different spoke pattern to accommodate the angle of the nipple holes, or so they said, I can't see anything different myself (see photo above) anyway they only charged there normal rate, when they rang me it sounded at first as though they wouldn't be able to use the rims, but I could hear one of them in the background say he could do it, anyway if your builder thinks there's a problem show him the photo of mine.
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Thanks again Mark - I compared your pics to my std wheels (and your back wheel spoke sizes are 30mm smaller than std) and I can see that spoke angle is steeper. What size and make of tyres have you got on your bike?
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They are Avon road runners Phil, I will check the sizes tomorrow.
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Just looking at same and guessing at 90/90 and 120/90 will accommodate slightly wider rims
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Any recommendations for tyre sizes for 2.15 x 18 front and 2.50 x 18 rims?
There is a table on page 7 of this document which may give some guidelines.
http://www.maxxis.co.uk/media/65556/2013-Motorcycle-Tyre-Catalogue.pdf
I recall that I posted this link once before and someone pointed out that the tyres it recommended for the 400 are narrower than those other makers recommend.
Standard front rim is 1.6, rear is 1.85, recommended tyre sizes from the document are 80/90 front and 90/90 rear.
I use Avon RoadRiders, they recommend 90/90 front and 100/90 rear.
So maybe worth seeing whether other sources say the same, 90/90 may be a bit narrow on the front.
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Phil I have a 130/80V 18 66v on the rear and a 90/90 18 51v on the front, they are Avon road riders, I said road runners before by mistake.
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Thanks Mark
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Hi guys
I may be looking too deep at this but have been looking at Avon tyre catalogue which gives all widths, revs per mile, etc. http://www.avonmoto.com/download/Avon_mc_databook.pdf
Questions
1) As I'm still waiting for 18 inch 2.15 rim to come into stock - as revs per mile is cocked up using a 18 inch rim (speedo), if I use 19 inch with 3.25 section ( seems skinny? - as recommended by Avon) - is handling any better/worse for 'not on the edge road riding'? Or is it about cosmetics (CR used 18s I think)
2) Should I just go for 4.00 on back to save cocking up gearing? Or slightly wider 130/80? Same question as above.
Anybody any experience of using above on road comments appreciated. Sorry to drag this out but going to be spending 500 squid and want to get it right!
Thanks again
Phil
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Mines got stock size Avon roadriders fitted 19"F 18"R wheel, I have no complaints at all.
The only thing I would say about the 19" Front Wheel is you will find that the bike drifts wide slightly coming out of corners, but its not a big deal,& because this Café racer build cost me an arm & a leg I respect it a bit more than if it was a cheapo street cafe racer.
in other words I don't want to drop it.. ;D 8)
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I think it's mainly cosmetics Phil , as Greebo said it may turn in a bit slower with a 19 but if you're not racing who cares, I put 18's on mine cos that's what the original CR had (at least I think it did!) but where do you stop?, for example the sliders should be magnesium and not have mudguard mountings adjacent to the axle but I'm definitely not going to the expense of doing that! 👀 , without getting a real CR frame nobody has a perfect replica (the headstock is lower) and the last time I saw a CR frame sold it was 8k and that was a few year ago.
PS you don't need a speedo for your MOT so don't worry about the gearing, you can always mark up your rev counter with 30, 50, 70 notches in top, not sure if the police will be impressed with that but that's what they're getting from me 😀.
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I may be looking too deep at this but have been looking at Avon tyre catalogue which gives all widths, revs per mile, etc. http://www.avonmoto.com/download/Avon_mc_databook.pdf
I wish I could understand this tyre sizing malarkey, and I wish the manufacturers would be consistent in their recommendations.
If I go to the Avon Motorcycle Tyres web page (http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle) and tell it I have a 1977 Honda CB400/4 it tells me I need the following tyres:
Front: Avon RoadRider 90/90-18 51V
Rear: Avon RoadRider 100/90-18 56V
This is what I have fitted, and all seems well.
But .... If I look in the referenced Avon Tyre Catalogue this tells me that a 90/90-18 tyre should be fitted to a rim of width 1.85 - 2.50 (400 is 1.60), and a 100/90-18 tyre should be fitted to a rim of width 2.15 - 2.75 (400 is 1.85).
So Phil may be understandably confused, as I am. Can anyone else make sense of this?
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Hi guys
I may be looking too deep at this but have been looking at Avon tyre catalogue which gives all widths, revs per mile, etc. http://www.avonmoto.com/download/Avon_mc_databook.pdf
Questions
1) As I'm still waiting for 18 inch 2.15 rim to come into stock - as revs per mile is cocked up using a 18 inch rim (speedo), if I use 19 inch with 3.25 section ( seems skinny? - as recommended by Avon) - is handling any better/worse for 'not on the edge road riding'? Or is it about cosmetics (CR used 18s I think)
2) Should I just go for 4.00 on back to save cocking up gearing? Or slightly wider 130/80? Same question as above.
Anybody any experience of using above on road comments appreciated. Sorry to drag this out but going to be spending 500 squid and want to get it right!
Thanks again
Phil
Just going off topic, but still concerning the front end & handling.
The thing I tried to improve on when building me cafe racer was the stock fork brace which is not really up to the job,[ especially on uneven road surfaces ], an engineer freind tried making me a stronger brace for the stock forks, but because the brace has to be attached to the "fork risers" & also act as a front mudguard bracket he found that there would not be enough clearance, Also I did not want to get rid of the mudguard just to accommodate the stronger brace. I even tried searching the internet to try & find if any of the 750 sohc specialised companies had come up with one, but I could not find one any where, so in the end I had to stick with the stock brace which is OK, but not good enough for those who want to push the front end hard through the twisties.... :o
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I was over at the Ace Cafe last week and looking around the bikes there was a nicely detailed Harley flat track replica parked there with 18 inch front and rear alloy rims laced to the hubs, it was the rims that first attracted my attention as the just looked very well made so I had a read of them to find they were produced by MORAD of Spain, a type I've not seen before.
Had a search around and they seem to make quite a variety of sizes and rim profiles, maybe of use as a supply.
Think much of the past race bikes used 18inch front as many of their tyres were supplied in that size from 60s onward.
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This maybe helpful also, if you search "tachoma world tyre size calculator" and enter your sizes it'll calculate all the specs for you to see a direct comparison.
It is a US site for Toyota trucks but the calc sheet works fine for bike sizes as far as I've checked.
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Just an update on the wheel build as it might affect other members in the future. I have just taken hubs and borrani style alloy wheels from ebay piicambi10 to Southport Wheelbuilers (http://wheelbuilders.blogspot.co.uk/). Great guy - Alan Atkinson - ex Bill Head & Bill Head mechanic from 70's. He advised that the angle of the spoke holes in the rims are for a small hub with a disc brake if you want to keep the original spoke angle/pattern. So, front is ok but as per Marks input earlier in this thread, the spoke angle can be changed but the spoke angle on the original wheels are designed to counter the acceleration and braking forces so the shallow angle/shorter spoke isn't ideal but will probably have little impact in reality.
Just thought info might be useful.
While I was there, I took the front wheel from my K2
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Sorry my big clumsy fingers hit wrong key and didn't finish message
std rim was from DS - a replica - as it had a slight kick in it - Alan did manage to true it but it was welded out of line and was rubbish when viewed at wheel build stage - just a bit of feedback for people considering cheaper DS rims
Phil
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Just an update on the wheel build as it might affect other members in the future. I have just taken hubs and borrani style alloy wheels from ebay piicambi10 to Southport Wheelbuilers (http://wheelbuilders.blogspot.co.uk/). Great guy - Alan Atkinson - ex Bill Head & Bill Head mechanic from 70's. He advised that the angle of the spoke holes in the rims are for a small hub with a disc brake if you want to keep the original spoke angle/pattern. So, front is ok but as per Marks input earlier in this thread, the spoke angle can be changed but the spoke angle on the original wheels are designed to counter the acceleration and braking forces so the shallow angle/shorter spoke isn't ideal but will probably have little impact in reality.
Just thought info might be useful.
While I was there, I took the front wheel from my K2
I'm glad you got an answer on the spoke pattern Phil, Central Wheels told me they would have to use a different spoke pattern but not why, I have wondered ever since what the difference was!, at least its the back wheel that's affected and not the front, the fact that Central Wheels didn't bother to mention it was an issue and your comment above "little impact in reality" (which I assume is what your wheel builder advised)give me confidence in using the wheel.