Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB350/400 => Topic started by: AshimotoK0 on December 02, 2018, 01:15:45 PM
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A local bloke Cathy knows through pub quizzing and a CB72 owner asked me to go with him to see a low miles 400/4. I bounced it off Trigger and Julie and a couple of others not on here and everyone (including me) was of the opinion that it was nowhere near worth the asking price of £2,500 ... anyway we went to see it and it's a very early UK bike .. Oct 1975 ... the seller got it to start (he had changed the oil but the bike was last taxed and used in the mid eighties) and I had to admit it sounded really nice, particularity in the cam area. The covers had obviously been off the engine as it was fitted with Allen screws but the seller was adamant the 10k mileage was genuine as he had know the deceased PO really well. To cut a long story short I told them both it was only worth £1,500 tops IMHO but they didn't believe me and settled on 1850 and a deal was done.......my main worry though is that it has a car type screw-on oil filter on it ... anyone know if this was done back in the day as an aftermarket, well thought out, modification ...or it it just a bodge? My concern is that the Honda setup has a bolt that incorporates a pressure control arrangement.
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Hi Ash, the yanks used to do this mod regularly for some reason and specific filters with relif valves were available but that does not mean this is one of them. The bolt bypass rarely opens in normal use/ oil changing and at leasr thr normal hosing, bolt and fittings are the same accross all the fours so you should have spares. All you should need to do is unscrew the adaptor mate.
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Hi Ash, the yanks used to do this mod regularly for some reason and specific filters with relif valves were available but that does not mean this is one of them. The bolt bypass rarely opens in normal use/ oil changing and at leasr thr normal hosing, bolt and fittings are the same accross all the fours so you should have spares. All you should need to do is unscrew the adaptor mate.
Cheers Bryan ..due to a cockup with the delivery bloke he has not got his hands on the bike yet but it should be with him this week.
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I never understood the rational of this yank mod as spin on filters are not that cheap and pattern Honda ones not dear, after all if you are converting to a spin on it isnt original so what is wrong with a pattern standard one.
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Probably because your average ham fisted yank finds it simple, no checking the sealing ring on the cover AND the oil bolt are seated properly and in good order, remembering to fit the large washer and spring as well, and in the correct order. Plus they can probably get a filter from any car shop rather than having to go to a bike shop.
Sent from my X6pro using Tapatalk
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Many of the car canister oil filters have exactly the same layout as the Honda type with relief valve built in.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a8133/whats-actually-inside-an-oil-filter-13272754/
So if like that, then no real difference in technical performance.
Funnily, many of the cars have gone to replacement elements in the Honda original configuration now to reduce material waste and recycling objectives.
VW group engines have been for at least 20 years.
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This is the filter and a couple of pics of the bike . The photos flatter it a bit ...every chrome item is pitted including the fork stanchions. Last tax disc expired in Dec.1984
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
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Solvol by the kilo then Ash and at least the missing caliper is same as 500!
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Solvol by the kilo then Ash and at least the missing caliper is same as 500!
He got the caliper with it with stuck piston and seized alloy mounting arm pivot ;) ...I can see him raiding my spares box !
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Nah mate, grease gun and new piston/seal kit will cure that
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That looks like a bargain Ash.
Someone was trying to sell a really rough 1975 400f for £3.5k at Kempton on Saturday. Genuine barn find etc😏
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That looks like a bargain Ash.
Someone was trying to sell a really rough 1975 400f for £3.5k at Kempton on Saturday. Genuine barn find etc😏
They always look better in pics than in the flesh ... He wants to get it totally standard but I have told him he will have to search far and wide to find an original exhaust system for it....and dig deep into his pockets if and when he does find a decent set. One of these days somebody is going to do a proper double-skinned set of pipes for these ... The Yamiya ones I reviewed for Saisei were spot on in terms of appearance and build quality APART from the fact that they are only single skinned and were bit of a struggle to get to fit. Yet, Yamiya/CMS/ Silver sell double-skinned pipes for most of the other Honda fours so whyt not the ever popular 400/4 ?
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We are mugs are we not?? Seeing what he has paid or even at £1500, there is alot to spend on that with exhaust being a good example as Ash says. Then what's it worth after, unless a real minter (at more cost) ...... and another mug walks up.... ;)
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The local chap who bought this is fitting the standard oil filter housing I got him at an autojumble. He's telling me that he thinks one of the original holes in the crankcase underneath the oil filter been plugged. He's going to send me a photo tomorrow, to show what he means, but meanwhile, anyone got experience of fitting the car type spin-on filters to 400/4's ?
Here is the pic of the engine again, as purchased, showing the aftermarket oil filter.
[attachimg=1]
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Without seeing the engine end of the cartridge filter it's difficult to be specific.
They work in the same way, at least the filters I've seen, both original and cartridges flood the casing with oil, force it through the filter material, then exit via central port (screw thread or bolt) into oil gallery of engines.
I thought the conversion just had a hollow male-to-male threaded stub to screw in place of Honda bolt that allowed the cartridges to be mounted to engine. Sealing flange should be in same place.
Be interesting to see the photos when they arrive with you.
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Thanks Nigel... I reckon it's something like this
https://www.oldbikebarn.com/honda-cb350f-400f-500-chrome-spin-on-oil-filter.html
Discussion here also:-
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=108562.0
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Here are the pics of the blocked off port.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
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I could be talking out of my backside here but, I'm sure that only 1 hole is patent on my CB400/4. I'm trying to find a good pic in my photos to show it but can't find one.
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Yes, one hole is plugged as standard as photo. Just looked at a CB500/4 one as well and that only has only one hole patent also
[attachimg=1]
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I'm not familiar enough with the 400 engine to say that it's normal just from that picture, you need another to compare as Julie says.
But my read of it is that it's the manufacturing process that needs to go through there to connect an internal gallery to the filter output route into the engine.
Looks like they've machined then plugged it to get in there that way.
If left open, it would just allow the oil to bypass the filter route on it way to the internal galleries.
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I crossed over there with you Julie, that external gallery with bolted cap is I presume feed from oil pump into filter chamber.
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I'm not familiar enough with the 400 engine to say that it's normal just from that picture, you need another to compare as Julie says.
But my read of it is that it's the manufacturing process that needs to go through there to connect an internal gallery to the filter output route into the engine.
Looks like they've machined then plugged it to get in there that way.
If left open, it would just allow the oil to bypass the filter route on it way to the internal galleries.
Just what i was going to say Nigel 👍👍👍
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Thanks everyone ... I also checked my 500K0 crankcase earlier tody and it has a similar blacking plug ... so I guess I can put his mind at rest.