Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 14, 2022, 10:54:35 PM
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For saying how rust and manky they get is anyone making SS
exhaust collets for old Honda's at sensible money?
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I wire brushed mine clean, then sprayed them with zinc high temperature paint,
Think it was made by Rustoleum
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
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I went that route. I soaked them for a few days in a derusting agent the name of which I can’t recall, polished them off with a rotary wire brush, wiped them off with acetone then painted them in very HT paint. It won’t last, but it smartened them up for a while. Might even last longer than when they were new.
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After wire brushing off the worst I've left mine in Evaporust for a week. A few of them have out of shape flanges that I'll need to hammer out.
That's when I got thinking about SS ones - quite a bit of work to shape them I guess.
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I’m sure someone on here was going to have a go at making ss ones, maybe Oddjob?
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No, I sanded them completely flat, then polished them so they shone and they will be getting Cermakrome ceramic coated shortly. Did about 22 of them I think. Spotted them the other day still in the ziplock bag, some have started to go a little rusty in areas but nothing a few minutes with the Dremel won't sort out.
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Giz a look when you get round to it Ken, mine are in the 'to source' box at the min as are pretty shagged out. If youre floggoing them l'll have a set maybe, when the time comes to get some. Hadnt even thouht that far ahead yet.........
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Your washers were posted today Roo.
How bad are your collets BTW, I threw quite a few away because they were just junk really. I only restored the ones with lots of metal left. Some were so rusty they were paper thin.
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Ted. There is a chap local to me that is making SS collets for 400/4's. I'm just going to reference the part number to see if the fit the 500 as well, because I can't remember 🙄🙄🙄🙄
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Ted. There is a chap local to me that is making SS collets for 400/4's. I'm just going to reference the part number to see if the fit the 500 as well, because I can't remember 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Be handy if they are.
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Unfortunately they are not Ted, I've just cross referenced the part number and totally different. I'll ask him if he will be doing 500 ones though.
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There are quite a few 500 & 550 re-builds here so might be worth it for someone to make them.
Noticed the DS ones for a 500 are quite a bit cheaper than the 400 ones.
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Your washers were posted today Roo.
How bad are your collets BTW, I threw quite a few away because they were just junk really. I only restored the ones with lots of metal left. Some were so rusty they were paper thin.
As you'd expect from anythinf off this bike, they're pretty beat up and very thin. I was going to get soem 'repo cheap' ones when the time came, just havent got reound to it yet as not that important. I was kindly jogged into remembering by Teds post. Still got to find somebody to chrome the pipes first!
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There are quite a few 500 & 550 re-builds here so might be worth it for someone to make them.
Noticed the DS ones for a 500 are quite a bit cheaper than the 400 ones.
If you give me the measurements Ted, he will make a set of 500 ones for you in SS.
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There are quite a few 500 & 550 re-builds here so might be worth it for someone to make them.
Noticed the DS ones for a 500 are quite a bit cheaper than the 400 ones.
If you give me the measurements Ted, he will make a set of 500 ones for you in SS.
Any idea of the cost involved Julie?
I would have no idea how to measure one up correctly as there are so many measurements involved - I'd just post him a bent one. ;D ;D ;D
Some listings seem to show same as 400 see below 40mm x 26 mm.
.https://www.japan-webike.ie/ps/18233-107-000/#!search&p.k=18233-107-000
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Strange, because they don't show them fitting the 400 on their list 🤔🤔🤔. I'm sure I've got 500 ones here to get the measurements from Ted. No idea of price.
[attachimg=1]
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Greendhat 18233-107-000 Exhaust Collar Pipe Joint For Honda CB CL SL TL XL 100 125 200 250 400 500 550 CB100K 1970-1987 Exhaust Collars
I've measured mine and the dimensions are 40mm across the width x 26mm deep as per the listing.
I'm assuming that my 500 collars are the originals - it has a Motad exhuast system so could they be different collars on my 500?
I've tried my collars on both my 500 front pipe & against my original 400 manifold and they both fit correctly & look the same as the pipe diameters are identical?
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The only way I can think of to make some Ted is to machine them out of billet stainless. They were originally made out of sheet steel which was then forced over by some sort of press, I could see how they were made by working on so many and you can see places where the metal started to split due to the stresses involved, I'd imagine they had to scrap more than a few due to excessive cracks. I did consider buying some sheet stainless at one point but the pressure needed was far beyond what an amateur could exert. Plus you'd need a mandrel etc so decided to have the OE ones ceramic coated instead. The paint I'm having applied passed a salt water test, 10,000 hours in salt water with no visible signs of rusting is the standard. Hopefully it should stop any future rusting.
Roo if you can source 2 decent collets from what you have and send them up I'll add them to my lot after doing my stuff on them, that will be 24, which is enough for 3 complete sets. Mine have a small 3mm hole in the corner so they can be hung by wire when he sprays them, I asked him and he said it would be a great help to him for getting a decent finish on them.
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I can buy 8 new ones for £35 including postage to the Uk from this place so might just replace them all.
https://www.japan-webike.ie/ps/18233-107-000/#!search&p.k=18233-107-000
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Ted, I think the 500 collets are just longer than the 400/4 ones, the diameter is the same. I'm not going to get the chap to make the 500 ones if you don't want them. He's making a big batch for people on a 400/4 Facebook group and he lives in Boston, only 10 miles from me. I'm not ordering any for myself from him as I don't need them.
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I can't commit to SS without a price Julie.
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I can't commit to SS without a price Julie.
Ron says around about £40 a set.
[attachimg=1]
These are ones he's made before cutting them in half.
[attachimg=2]
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£40 for all 8 is okay with me.
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I can buy 8 new ones for £35 including postage to the Uk from this place so might just replace them all.
https://www.japan-webike.ie/ps/18233-107-000/#!search&p.k=18233-107-000
It's the postage from Japan and the chance of import duties that usually kills that idea Ted.
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£40 for all 8 is okay with me.
I've put in your order for a set Ted. I'll let you know when they are ready and you can liaise direct with Ron re payment and postage.
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Roo if you can source 2 decent collets from what you have and send them up I'll add them to my lot after doing my stuff on them, that will be 24, which is enough for 3 complete sets. Mine have a small 3mm hole in the corner so they can be hung by wire when he sprays them, I asked him and he said it would be a great help to him for getting a decent finish on them.
Ive dug em out and will sort tmrw, cheers mate.
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The only way I can think of to make some Ted is to machine them out of billet stainless. They were originally made out of sheet steel which was then forced over by some sort of press, I could see how they were made by working on so many and you can see places where the metal started to split due to the stresses involved, I'd imagine they had to scrap more than a few due to excessive cracks. I did consider buying some sheet stainless at one point but the pressure needed was far beyond what an amateur could exert. Plus you'd need abillet stainless etc so decided to have the OE ones ceramic coated instead. The paint I'm having applied passed a salt water test, 10,000 hours in salt water with no visible signs of rusting is the standard. Hopefully it should stop any future rusting.
Roo if you can source 2 decent collets from what you have and send them up I'll add them to my lot after doing my stuff on them, that will be 24, which is enough for 3 complete sets. Mine have a small 3mm hole in the corner so they can be hung by wire when he sprays them, I asked him and he said it would be a great help to him for getting a decent finish on them.
billet stainless ?
Sheet Steel ?
They are made from tube mild steel that is heat pressed and then cut in half.
Ron makes them from stainless that is pressed to form a collar and then cuts them in half. Same as the original process without the heat press. Very easy to do with the right tooling.
You can also do them in a lathe and spin the tube of stainless and form the lip ;)
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They look like either Dairy or handrail tube and once the former is made which isn't difficult, pressing them with a hydraulic hand press will be easy.
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I would be interested in a set for my 500 if he is willing to make more.
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I would be interested in a set for my 500 if he is willing to make more.
I'll ask him for you Mick.
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billet stainless ?
Sheet Steel ?
They are made from tube mild steel that is heat pressed and then cut in half.
Ron makes them from stainless that is pressed to form a collar and then cuts them in half. Same as the original process without the heat press. Very easy to do with the right tooling.
You can also do them in a lathe and spin the tube of stainless and form the lip ;)
Couldn't resist telling me I'm wrong but like a lot of things you look but you don't see.
So lets look at an exhaust collet, I've worked on 22 of them, grinding the rust off them, polishing them to get a decent finish for the ceramic coating, visually inspecting them for damage and that gives you some insight on how they were made. I didn't consider they were made from tube as the evidence doesn't support that, you've probably handled loads of them but they'll be rusty as a rule and not something worth really looking hard at. Even new ones will have just been fitted without inspecting and I get that, if I hadn't handled and inspected so many recently I'd probably have come to the same conclusion.
So lets examine one, first off they are not circular, they look circular but put 2 together and they don't form a circle unless that circle is elliptical, you're missing the fact they've been cut I hear you say but unless the hacksaw or whatever was used was about 5mm wide they weren't part of a tube to begin with. They are also of different sizes, put a few together and you find they don't match in diameter, fit a pair in an exhaust clamp and you'll see they don't meet, there's a big gap between them. Surely if they were using a tube they'd have got the diameter right, they are engineers aren't they? If I was an engineer tasked with producing these back then I'd have measured the exhaust pipe, roughly about 38mm, now the inside of the exhaust clamp, 44m wide, so I need a piece of tubing 38mm ID and I need to flare that out to 44mm, as Moorey says, make a former and it should be easy. BUT that still leaves you with a 38mm circle and these don't have that.
The evidence supports that these were made of sheet steel, cut to a certain length, folded at 90 degrees and then hydraulically formed into the half circle shape. So what's the evidence? Firstly, study the way the edges have been cut, not been cut with a hacksaw as the state of the edge doesn't have the markings these saws leave, they were hydraulically shear cut, this leaves an bevel on the edge where the metal comes under compression before the shear can start, look closely and you can see this bevel goes around the corner where it's bent, this means it was cut BEFORE the metal was shaped to form the 90 degree fold. If it had been cut after the shape would be totally different. Next bit, if the bend was formed by using a former it would be a gradual shape, look at the ones Ron has made, a lovely slope where the metal has been forced outwards, totally unlike the OE collet, that's a clean bend, almost 90 degrees only distortion is right where it's been bent and that would be normal.
Study this pic of a brand new collet, you can see the shear markings on the edge, you can see them follow the bend, if you look hard you can see the very upper edge of the bend has a small bump on it, clearly excess metal from when it was bent being squeezed out, you wouldn't get that if it had been cut, it would be clean. There would I would also say been no heat involved, cold pressed and that's why there are stress cracks on the edges of the bend, as it's curled into shape by the hydraulic press the metal would have been stretched to almost it's limit and it fractured the edges very slightly as a result, not every collet shows these fractures but enough did to make me notice it when I was dressing the edges down.
(https://i.postimg.cc/R0WsGVcZ/18233107000-1-large.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Also look at the bottom edge, it's been radiused where it clamps against the exhaust flange, sure you could radius a tube but why bother, it's a lot easier to do when it's in a sheet, just a simple 30 degree cutter running along the edge.
I'm not an engineer, never studied to be an engineer but I do like to study and imagine how things were made, I do agree however that cutting a tube on a lathe to form the lip would be a great way to produce these but that's lots of waste metal and setting up and lathe time etc and it's a lot easier and cheaper to just cut and fold metal and then hydraulically press them into shape and lets be honest, Honda did things the cheapest way and not always the best way.
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I would be interested in a set for my 500 if he is willing to make more.
I'll ask him for you Mick.
I've added them to his list Mick.
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thanks Julie