Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: AshimotoK0 on September 14, 2023, 01:41:13 PM
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Trying to match keys to ignition and early steering lock (NOT the Nieman type as fitted to CB400F) and seat locks. So one key fits everything.
I managed to remove the tumbler pins and springs for the old style steering lock and pretty sre I can adjust the three pins lengths to sit an ignition key.
However, not so sure how you get access to the tumbler pins on the 400F type seat lock. Anyone done this?
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Just a small clip on the back of the barrel Ash. Then the slide will come off and the lock will drop out. You can then see the tumbler plates.
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This is interesting! Every day an education of course.
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You need to be careful you don't accidentally make the locks so easy to open that almost any key will fit.
Can you not just source a keyed alike set? They are still around but admitably they ain't cheap. Spotted one on Ebay a month or so ago.
I have 2 sets of them on my 500. As it's wearing a 550 harness, the top ignition lock pairs with the seat lock and the steering lock pairs with the lower ignition lock.
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Brass clip that pushes to the centre.
[attach=1]
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You need to be careful you don't accidentally make the locks so easy to open that almost any key will fit.
Can you not just source a keyed alike set? They are still around but admitably they ain't cheap. Spotted one on Ebay a month or so ago.
I have 2 sets of them on my 500. As it's wearing a 550 harness, the top ignition lock pairs with the seat lock and the steering lock pairs with the lower ignition lock.
I got a NOS set but the seat lock was for the 750F with Steel body, no little hinged flap. So sold NOS seat lock keeping ignition switch . Not fussed if any key will open seat TBH....just like the 'locking' filler cap that replaced the thumb operated original.
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But any key fits the cap lock Ash
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If you’d kept the other lock you could have just swapped the barrels over
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If you’d kept the other lock you could have just swapped the barrels over
Been told that there is a plate holding the seat lock barrel in that's crimped / staked ..not sure plus the bodies are different shape on the steel and alloy versions ... too risky to potentially scrap a NOS seat lock that I sold for 30 quid
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That’s how we learn things Ash, we take a risk, if it doesn’t work out you’ve not exactly lost a lot, it would have worked as well, body is slightly different but the barrels would have been the same.
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That’s how we learn things Ash, we take a risk, if it doesn’t work out you’ve not exactly lost a lot, it would have worked as well, body is slightly different but the barrels would have been the same.
£30 is a hell of a lot to lose for a poor old bugger like me mate. :) Plus we learn things by modification of old part reclamation not defacing a rare & perfect NOS part that others may need.
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Seat locks aren't rare Ash, easy to find.
I've taken apart quite a lot of NOS parts in my time.
It's just confidence, I think I've only failed one to get it back together again.
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I've taken apart quite a lot of NOS parts in my time.
I was thinking back last night Ken and can't remember ever robbing a NOS part of it's bits. I couldn't even bear to nick a little plate from an unknown Honda bar switch I had once that I couldn't identify (turned out, later, it was from a CB125S).
Anyway here is a close up of one of the 2 NOS (steel) seat locks I sold recently. Not sure how the rectanglar plate is removed .. is it staked in?
[attachimg=1]
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I'm probably stating the obvious but on a lot of old cars the ignition barrells could only be removed with the key in place. They had to be turned into a certain position in order for them to be released by depressing the plunger or even worse on some you had to drill out a thin section of alloy where a small cast circle was visible. Any mechanism such as a link if it was a door lock would also need to be removed to rotate the barrell & key into a perverse position.
If it is possible to remove the catch mechanism to see if the barrell can be rotated to reveal any sort of release plunger into view.
I guess what would be ideal would be if you had an old switch you could dismantle to figure out the way the barrell is retained.
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That rectangular plate is part of the body of the lock Ash. All that's holding the lock in place is the clip on the end. You remove the clip and insert and turn the key and just pull and the lock barrel comes out on the key, the metal slide will then just drop out along with the small cam plate that fits on the end of the barrel.
I took mine apart because the body like a lot of them these days was starting to fade, so I had it ceramic coated along with the switchgear bodies. Came out really well.
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Some different variants I have gathered up .. only the one on left I am sure is off a CB500K1. One is NOS. Some have flaps ..some don't. Not sure which bikes the other 3 came off.
As Ken says one on RHS stripped easily and it has a circlip. But the NOS one I can't see any circlip. It's as if you need the key to get the barrel out. I don't have keys for any of these and not entirely sure which one is period correct for a 1975 CB400F. All I know is that the 400F deffo had the spring little key flap cover thingy.
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Deano.. I can't see any little brass clip in the ones without circlip fitted. Any ideas please?
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My 1978 400 has matching keeps except for the steering column pretty sure all original - no flap on my seat lock.
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Deano.. I can't see any little brass clip in the ones without circlip fitted. Any ideas please?
To see the brass clip / gate you need the key to turn the lock. However, if you haven't got a key, you can lift the end gate with a strip of metal and use a screwdriver to push the barrel out. I'll try and post some pics later.
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Ash, if you look at your last pic, the NOS one, you can see the end gate. If you had a key and turn the barrel, that is the brass 'clip' that you push across. Without a key you need to lift that from the inside to release the barrel, Once lifted the barrel can be pushed out,
I couldn't really take good pics as I needed three hands, so if you imagine the two pics combined, metal strip lifting the gate and at the same time pushing out the barrel.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
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PS. the lock does have the cover with the small spring.
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Cheers Deano ... I think I know what you mean now .. just needs to get a suitable pick to remove the clip.
By the way Ted ... every 400F I have ever owned (4) and seen had the spring loaded flap.
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Cheers Deano ... I think I know what you mean now .. just needs to get a suitable pick to remove the clip.
By the way Ted ... every 400F I have ever owned (4) and seen had the spring loaded flap.
So presumably mine has broken off at some time - it's not obvious that it's missing.
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If it was missing Ted the lock would come out everytime you used the key.
Buggered if I can make out what you're pushing there John. Is it clearer when the barrel is removed? if so maybe a before and after pic would explain it better.
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If it was missing Ted the lock would come out everytime you used the key.
Buggered if I can make out what you're pushing there John. Is it clearer when the barrel is removed? if so maybe a before and after pic would explain it better.
I am assuming its this little plate (circled in green) Ken (on my NOS one)
[attachimg=1]
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Hi Ash / Ken. Yes Ash, that’s the end gate. You’re right Ken, not a very good explanation. Bit short of time yesterday so rushed, have more time this morning so I’ve done as Ken suggested.
In this pic you can see the lock gates plus the end gate that holds the barrel in place.
[attach=1]
With the key in you can see the lock gates retracted but the end gate doesn’t move.
[attach=2]
The shape of the end of the key means the end gate stays in place. You need something more square ended to operate the end gate.
[attach=3]
Once the end gate is retracted you can push the barrel out.
[attach=4]
Hope this makes sense.
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If it was missing Ted the lock would come out everytime you used the key.
I can now see on the lock body of my 400 a recessed lug with a hole in it.
Lock stays in place when key is used - a clip iirc at the other end.
Was the original cover plastic or metal preumably not sold as a separate part?
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TBH I thought that part was one of the lock plates that move when the keys inserted.
Never knew that one, can't remember actually trying to dismantle a seat lock till earlier this year and luckily mine was the circlip type.
Plastic as I recall Ted and no, not available as a separate part.
Looking at the pic John, it looks as though that end plate locks the barrel in place at the bottom, lift the plate and you lift it away from the recess presumably at the bottom and the lock now pulls/slides out. Clever.
Whilst we are on the subject of seat locks I noticed something on mine when I refitted it. The key doesn't move the slide bar completely clear of the latch pin hole, as a result the bar wouldn't release the latch pin to allow the seat to lift up. To me the key wasn't moving it far enough to the left but the internal design of the slide bar doesn't allow it to slide to the left any further. Without the bar in place the key turned much further, with it it wouldn't. Took a bit of modifying for it to release the latch pin.
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Looking at the pic John, it looks as though that end plate locks the barrel in place at the bottom, lift the plate and you lift it away from the recess presumably at the bottom and the lock now pulls/slides out. Clever.
Yes, that's right Ken. Normally sat at 6 o'clock. When you use the key to unlock, it moves to 3 o'clock and you can push it in as in my first pic Reply #4.