Honda-SOHC

SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Oddjob on September 24, 2019, 01:52:33 PM

Title: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on September 24, 2019, 01:52:33 PM
Started to refurb some of my old parts off my 500, I did this last in the 80s and the paint on them is now flaking like crazy.

Looking at the finishes on the yokes and the headlight shell I decided back them to do them in gloss black, thinking back though I'm not sure if that was correct. I suspect the shell may have been gloss but should the yokes have been satin black instead.

I'll be having the yokes powder coated but the shell will be sprayed with a rattle can, just need to make sure the finish is the correct one, although TBH I do change how things look if I decide it would look better or cooler in a different finish, I'll be doing the handlebar switches in satin black so maybe the yokes should match.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Trigger on September 24, 2019, 08:20:04 PM
Honda  Paint code NH1 on the headlight bowl and satin black on the frame and all over metal parts. The gloss used by Honda in the 70's is now comparable to a satin.

If you have a frame done in modern gloss on a 70's bike it, looks too blingy and tacky  ;)
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on September 24, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
I had some stuff done for my 1300 last year, some were in gloss and some were satin, the gloss is very similar to the frame on my 500, the satin less so. I think the satin is far too dull for the frame finish.

See if you agree.

Gloss
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Oddjob323/IMG_0487.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Oddjob323/IMG_0485_1.jpg)

Satin
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Oddjob323/IMG_0493.jpg)

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/Oddjob323/IMG_0480.jpg)
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Trigger on September 24, 2019, 08:50:54 PM
There are so many different levels of satin, yours looks very dull.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on September 24, 2019, 10:12:26 PM
Personally I think that satin looks very similar to the satin that Honda did on the 750F2 engine.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Trigger on September 24, 2019, 11:12:47 PM
If you look at Paul Gledhill thread on his K1. I matched the original 1971 Honda paint to do his frame, which was listed as a satin in modern day paint. Honda changed the black on the frame in 1976.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on September 25, 2019, 12:44:51 PM
Yeah just trawled through all 18 pages of it  :o

I'd have said that was a gloss finish, it's far too shiny to be called satin. Satin was the colour of the 750F2 engine and stuff like the reversed comstars on the 900/750s DOHC bikes. Either way the gloss I've had done is not that far off that, possibly a little shinier but TBH I'd have polished the frame anyway so it would have ended up shiny either way.

Couple of things I noted on Pauls thread,

1. Did he ever tighten up the nut on the rectifier ? Things like that just bug the hell out of me.

2. The note from Hadleigh Custom says new big end shells fitted and yet further down it says exchange crank and rods fitted and "BIGENDS ONLY GROUND" If they'd ground the bigends it may be why the rod bolts are protruding past the nuts, makes me wonder why the felt the need to grind them in the first place, plus why are the big end shells listed under the replacement standard parts section, Honda AFAIK never did oversize shells just very slightly bigger shells, I'd say far too small a difference for Hadleigh to have ground down too. Did Paul use the 1000cc block? I gather not as he's using 0.50 oversize pistons so suspect he used a replacement block and bored them out OR rather you did on his behalf.

Nice to see there is a BZP plater closer to me than Allens, Sheffield isn't that close but it's closer than the Hull area. Need to get some stuff done for the 500, trouble is I only have some small brackets off the airbox right now that need doing and I'm not sure whether they accept me just posting them to them. May ring and see.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: paul G on September 25, 2019, 03:00:31 PM
Yeah just trawled through all 18 pages of it  :o

I'd have said that was a gloss finish, it's far too shiny to be called satin. Satin was the colour of the 750F2 engine and stuff like the reversed comstars on the 900/750s DOHC bikes. Either way the gloss I've had done is not that far off that, possibly a little shinier but TBH I'd have polished the frame anyway so it would have ended up shiny either way.

Couple of things I noted on Pauls thread,

1. Did he ever tighten up the nut on the rectifier ? Things like that just bug the hell out of me.

2. The note from Hadleigh Custom says new big end shells fitted and yet further down it says exchange crank and rods fitted and "BIGENDS ONLY GROUND" If they'd ground the bigends it may be why the rod bolts are protruding past the nuts, makes me wonder why the felt the need to grind them in the first place, plus why are the big end shells listed under the replacement standard parts section, Honda AFAIK never did oversize shells just very slightly bigger shells, I'd say far too small a difference for Hadleigh to have ground down too. Did Paul use the 1000cc block? I gather not as he's using 0.50 oversize pistons so suspect he used a replacement block and bored them out OR rather you did on his behalf.

Nice to see there is a BZP plater closer to me than Allens, Sheffield isn't that close but it's closer than the Hull area. Need to get some stuff done for the 500, trouble is I only have some small brackets off the airbox right now that need doing and I'm not sure whether they accept me just posting them to them. May ring and see.

1. Yes the nut was tightend. The reason it isn't tightened in that picture is I was still trying to source a new/decent foam/rubber bit which goes around the edge
2. I doubt that grinding a couple of thou off the bearing journels would make any differance to the bolt length  :o
The crank and rods were uprated for the 900cc big bore kit, no I did not use the 900cc block or pistons as a new block was sourced and Trigger did a full top end refurb inc Re-bore.
The bottom end was also compleatly rebuilt. :D
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: paul G on September 25, 2019, 03:13:59 PM
Yeah just trawled through all 18 pages of it  :o

I'd have said that was a gloss finish, it's far too shiny to be called satin. Satin was the colour of the 750F2 engine and stuff like the reversed comstars on the 900/750s DOHC bikes. Either way the gloss I've had done is not that far off that, possibly a little shinier but TBH I'd have polished the frame anyway so it would have ended up shiny either way.

Couple of things I noted on Pauls thread,

1. Did he ever tighten up the nut on the rectifier ? Things like that just bug the hell out of me.

2. The note from Hadleigh Custom says new big end shells fitted and yet further down it says exchange crank and rods fitted and "BIGENDS ONLY GROUND" If they'd ground the bigends it may be why the rod bolts are protruding past the nuts, makes me wonder why the felt the need to grind them in the first place, plus why are the big end shells listed under the replacement standard parts section, Honda AFAIK never did oversize shells just very slightly bigger shells, I'd say far too small a difference for Hadleigh to have ground down too. Did Paul use the 1000cc block? I gather not as he's using 0.50 oversize pistons so suspect he used a replacement block and bored them out OR rather you did on his behalf.

Nice to see there is a BZP plater closer to me than Allens, Sheffield isn't that close but it's closer than the Hull area. Need to get some stuff done for the 500, trouble is I only have some small brackets off the airbox right now that need doing and I'm not sure whether they accept me just posting them to them. May ring and see.
Oddjob
1. Yes the nut was tightend. The reason it isn't tightened in that picture is I was still trying to source a new/decent foam/rubber bit which goes around the edge
2. I doubt that grinding a couple of thou off the bearing journels would make any differance to the bolt length  :o
The crank and rods were uprated for the 900cc big bore kit, no I did not use the 900cc block or pistons as a new block was sourced and Trigger did a full top end refurb inc Re-bore.
The bottom end was also compleatly rebuilt. :D
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on September 25, 2019, 03:48:53 PM
Hadleigh may have replaced the rod bolts Paul with stronger ones to cope with the higher compression etc of the 1000cc kit. Certainly seems to have had a lot of work done on it.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: paul G on September 25, 2019, 04:13:11 PM
Hadleigh may have replaced the rod bolts Paul with stronger ones to cope with the higher compression etc of the 1000cc kit. Certainly seems to have had a lot of work done on it.
I beleive so as it had the street/race cam in it as well which I still have along with a few other goodies.

Regards,
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 13, 2019, 04:03:48 PM
Just looking at a nos top yoke..I'd say definitely satin finish..
And its definitely comparable to the one on my other 500 here
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on October 13, 2019, 05:14:34 PM
You know what odd about that pic? It looks to be off a 500 as there doesn't seem to be the mount for the ignition switch in the middle, yet it's using the later 7mm bolts instead of the correct for the 500 8mm bolts.

Is that a 500K2?
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 13, 2019, 05:36:31 PM
Unsure of nos but it looks exactly like a k0 one I have here .

Either way I decided not to use it and recon the original.
Looks like part number ends in 305
Book says should end in 010 for my bike



Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 13, 2019, 06:48:34 PM
Just looked on cmsl
Just a superseded part
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on October 13, 2019, 07:16:47 PM
305 was used on the K2, what's strange though are the pinch bolt sizes. The 500 always used 8mm bolts with non shouldered bolts and nuts, they were 12mm headed and used a plain washer under the head of the bolt and a plain and spring under the nut, all of which were chromed.

The 550 used 10mm headed shouldered bolts and nuts with no washers and more importantly no D washers, they did this by reducing the size of the bolt from 8mm to 7mm which left more metal on the yoke so it didn't break as easily.  AFAIK yours is supposed to be a 500K0 and if so that's clearly had a new top yoke fitted, especially if it matches the newer 305 revision. I'd say at some point maybe someone broke the pinch bolt point on the original K0 top yoke and bought a K2 replacement.

Of course it may be that the picture deceives and they are in fact 12mm headed bolts not 10mm ones, it would explain though why the D washer is missing on the pic of the yoke on your bike.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 13, 2019, 07:32:03 PM
I wouldn't pay any attention to the bolts fitted...they were in it ..someone must have just been popping it together..
The one in my bike has seen some action so I wouldn't pay any attention to the bolts either..
The D washers were missing when I got it...and now that reminds me I need a pair for that one too...so that's 3 i need

I have 3 yokes here
The 2 old ones are from k0's and are/ were fitted
The nos was just something I have picked up along the way..
I will check tomorrow as I'm in now but I'm pretty certain they are all identical
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on October 13, 2019, 07:37:43 PM
What's really odd here is that the 550K0 and the 550K1 used the 305 top yoke but they were supposedly meant to be used with the 8mm pinch bolts, yet and get this, the 550K2 used the 7mm pinch bolts BUT the part number is still a 323 middle but 020 end? What's that about?

Would the NOS yoke take an 8mm bolt instead of the 7mm ones fitted, if the 8mm ones fit then it's got the wrong bolts fitted, if they don't then it was always meant to have the 7mm ones and the mystery deepens.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 13, 2019, 07:43:49 PM
I will investigate tomorrow ..
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 13, 2019, 07:47:49 PM
Had to go and look
Nos wont take 8mm
Old k0 one that I'm reusing does
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Trigger on October 13, 2019, 08:20:44 PM
Had to go and look
Nos wont take 8mm
Old k0 one that I'm reusing does

If it is 7mm bolts then, it will be 750K late  ;)
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on October 14, 2019, 02:28:09 AM
Had to go and look
Nos wont take 8mm
Old k0 one that I'm reusing does

If it is 7mm bolts then, it will be 750K late  ;)

With a 323 middle number? the only other thing is that it had the wrong part number in the bag, for some reason. 305s were always meant to take the 8mm bolts, was the bag sealed?
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 14, 2019, 07:34:57 AM
Nope. bag wasn't sealed and part number was taped to it..
And bolts were already fitted.

Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Trigger on October 14, 2019, 07:47:52 AM
The P/N for that yoke is 53230 341 701 superseded to 53230 341 305  ;)

I will start the bidding at 99p  ;D
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on October 14, 2019, 06:18:15 PM
Nope. bag wasn't sealed and part number was taped to it..
And bolts were already fitted.

In that case someone has been tampering, the part number is not taped to the part, it's usually lose in the bag and the yoke doesn't come with bolts, it comes bare.

Is the yoke EXACTLY the same as the OE one fitted, eg have you checked the fork stanchion diameter, distance between the fork holes etc. If Graham is right and it's off a 750 then there must be differences or Honda would have just used the 500 (305 revision) instead of creating a new part number.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 14, 2019, 07:52:00 PM
I will have to measure tomorrow as the one I'm using is now newly painted .
But I did hold the nos one up to it..
The fork diameter looks identical.
And the distance between fork also.

The only noticable difference I can tell at the moment is the larger holes on the k0 one for the pinch bolts .

When the piants cured abit I will check it out properly
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 14, 2019, 07:54:57 PM
It came from the same place as this one...
Notice it also has the bolts fitted to it..
Turns out there were a few there

And no I didn't pay that price for it

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB500-CB550-NOS-Steering-Top-Yoke-Arch-53230-323-305/332907452367

I'm pretty certain this was in the bag with the loose part number still in it as you would expect
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Oddjob on October 14, 2019, 09:58:00 PM
Just looked on CMS and the OE yoke on the 550K0 is the 010, you check the pic of that part number and you can see it takes the 8mm pinch bolts, however when you click on the superceded part number (305) and check the pic of that you can see the holes are 7mm on that. The pic shows it bare, however it may be that Honda decided to provide the 7mm bolts as the OE 8mm bolts wouldn't fit the new superceded part.

The only thing I can think of.
Title: Re: colour of yokes and headlight shell
Post by: Woodside on October 15, 2019, 07:56:02 PM
The parts are identical except for the pinch bolt holes...

So with a 8mm bolt D washers are required.
7mm no D washer needed ....???
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