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Messages - Oddjob

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CB500/550 / Re: engine sounding like a 'diesel' at low
« on: October 03, 2012, 10:09:35 PM »
Personally I've always found the problem is the primary chain. The 500 and 550 both have a primary chain arrangement which has no tensioner fitted unlike the 650 which had a small preloaded slipper fitted under the chain. Why Honda didn't do this for the 500 is a mystery but maybe they didn't realise it was going to cause problems.

Anyhow, after I'd say 25-35k the chain starts to droop, if the carbs are out of balance this makes the chain lash around even more. The chain starts to hit the oil gallery right under the middle of the chain, this can cause a loud knocking sound and will eventually trash the crankcases if it wears through the tunnel. This however does take some time to happen so don't start worrying just yet.

My 500 which has 147000 miles on it can tick over at 800rpm and is as silent as a tomb, bit of cam rustle is about all I ever hear once the tappets have warmed up.

A good service is first thing to do. Then do the carb balancing, if the noise is still there but lets say reduced in volume you really do need to think about changing the primary chain, you can do it without removing the head, just pop off the bottom of the motor, release the conrods and then the primary shaft, the shaft can be pulled out using the bolt the footrest hang off, I leave a footrest on it and use it as a sliding hammer.
Once you have the chain out check the primary shaft cush drive, the rubbers inside the drive tend to go hard and don't do their job, replace these as well and the new chain will last much longer than if you don't.
I'd say a primary chain is good for around 20-40k depending on useage. I've fitted 4 or so if I remember correctly in my 147000 mile motor and over 6 in the engine which has done 263000.

Oh and you'll need to remove the cam as well to release the camchain, why not replace that at the same time. Never liked the idea of splitting the chain myself, if Honda had wanted you to do that they'd have fitted a split link like some other Japanese manufacturers. Not saying it's unsafe, just that I've seen more than a few drive chains where the owner has split the chain and done a horrible job of re-rivetting it back together, never like the idea of the camchain suddenly snapping and thrashing the engine so have never done this. For the sake of pulling the motor out and dropping the bottom case I'd prefer to do that and have peace of mind.

CB350/400 / Re: Stiff Throttle
« on: October 03, 2012, 05:24:21 AM »
Made me laugh are you as old as me?

No  ones as old as you Bitsa  :)

CB500/550 / Re: sprocket retainer ring removal
« on: October 03, 2012, 05:20:55 AM »
I'm just in the process of having some special tools made for the retainer rings, both front and back. I got a little delayed with a household emergency but I sent them down to the maker last week. He's promised a quick turn round and they should be realistically priced.
The rear retainer rings are no longer available anywhere so you should make sure it's reusable afterwards, hence the need to make sure you can remove it without damaging it. If that means you have to buy a special tool for £15 or so quid then I'd say that was money well spent.

I'll post some more details of the tools once the maker has confirmed he's managed to do them, shouldn't be long.

CB500/550 / Re: Which clutch? advice appreciated
« on: September 28, 2012, 03:34:59 PM »
Best thing to do with the 500 clutch is to make sure the adjuster in the L/H casing is properly greased and adjusted. By greased I don't mean just bunging a bit of grease in it through the nipple there, take it completely apart, clean it throughly and regrease by hand, check the end of the push rod for mushrooming and make sure the rod is still in one piece. If the cable is aftermarket then oil it, if it's a genuine Honda one don't. Grease the pivot point of the clutch lever as well. All these things help a great deal, don't have to do them often but it's noticeable when you do.

CB750 / Re: Forks question ???
« on: September 27, 2012, 09:24:41 AM »
Personally I don' think it's detailed enough to be a sticky. However I will do a How-To if you want. might be a little on the long side as there are lots of things to do to get the best results. Not claiming to be an expert on polishing, I'm just trying to pass on what I've learned as I've done some things.
I'll try and include a lot of pics as they really do help I've found and also some links on where to buy the things required like buffing soap and mops etc. As with most things the more you put into it the more you get out, I could quite easily make more than a few quid doing casings, it would certainly be a means of recouping my outlay but whilst I quite like doing my own stuff I'm a bit hesitant of doing other peoples bits. I think that's mainly because I'm a perfectionist and won't allow myself to do a shoddy job, I'd be very afraid of doing what I consider to be a bad job on other peoples stuff even though they'd probably be quite pleased with what I call bad. Like the GT750 stuff I mentioned, fella who did it is very well known in the restoration circles but if they were my cases I'd be quite pissed off as they weren't that great for the price paid.

I'll try and do an old clutch casing off a 500-4 with before and after pics, might be interesting and challenging.

CB750 / Re: Forks question ???
« on: September 26, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »
The marks are stains which have seeped into the alloy over time, this is my impression of them anyway. I've also had or seen a few of these marks over the years. To get rid of them you have to be a bit brutal I'm afraid. On fork sliders the metal is thick enough that you can remove a few microns without any detriment. Not saying remove masses of metal but I've removed quite a bit sometimes to even out gouges etc. So long as the area in question isn't a stress area as in bolt hole nearby etc then your fine. Sliders aren't really under a lot of stress as such it's more the stanchions.
To get rid of them you must remove enough of the alloy to get under the stain, you can't localise the removal or you'll end up with a dish where you've gouged out the alloy, you can concentrate on the stain area and smooth it out later but be careful of ripples caused by this.

First step is a really hard wet and dry rub, use a very coarse grit, I'll look at what I use and let you know numbers later. If the alloy is heavily pitted or gouges a wire wheel can be used before the wet and dry, bead blasting is also very handy. Don't use paint stripper etc to remove old lacquer, most important that. Remove lacquer the hard way and either wire brush it off or sand it off, the reason for this is that the lacquer can show you were there are imperfections in the metal, dips etc which are hard to spot with the eye.
Carry on with the wet and dry, again quite a rough grade until the metal is smooth and very grey looking. Any imperfections like casting marks can be filed flat, the more you remove of these the better, don't be afraid to use the file. A fine fine though, nothing too coarse or you'll leave marks which you'll have to sand flat. The smoother you can make the surface the better, once you've polished the item you'll find dirt and contaminants are easier to remove as they struggle to stick, a simple wipe of the washing sponge is usually all you'll need to keep them pristine. I've had polished parts on my 1300 for years now and have never touched them with polish since the day they were installed. You will need to re-polish eventually but why make work for yourself when a little extra work in the beginning will avoid this for as long as possible.
Ok, so now you've got a smooth surface, progressively go down the grades of wet and dry, this is the tedious and hard part, I can sand items 30-40 times before I even attempt to polish it. End up with something like 1200-1800 grit, again I'll look at the numbers later but that's a close number. Use a Dremel with the new Speedclic system to sand those areas you find hard to get to by hand, there are 3 different grades of flap wheel in the Speedclic range so use them all to get good results
You can polish by hand but you won't get as good a result IMO as using electrical polishers. I use a dedicated bench grinder with 4 mops on, 2 either end. You must find a bench grinder with a very powerful motor, 350w minimum, I use a 600w one and I can still stop that motor when pressing hard. Buy a face shield please, it will save you getting incredibly dirty and will also protect you when a piece flys away and they will fly off believe me. The metal gets very very hot so wear thick gloves. Use one end of the grinder for the initial polish using brown buffing compound, don't mix up the mops, keep them dedicated to one specific compound. Do the first polish and you'll spot areas which aren't polishing as well, sand and resand if required. Keep using the brown compound until your happy with the result. Use a Dremel to polish the areas the bench polisher can't access, the new Speedclic system has a lovely little cloth mop which makes life so much easier.
When you feel your ready for the final polish use white compound to do this, using the other mops of course. Any black marks left by the compound can be removed easily by using Duraglit or Brasso in the impregnated felt form.
Keep final polishing until it glows like a mirror, you should be able to clearly see your reflection in it or even shave if you want to  ;D
A final coat of a good wax helps, I use a good carnuba wax like Pinnacle but any wax should do so long as it's a good one.

If I get the chance I'll do a How-To using some pics.

One more thing, getting set up for this is very expensive, you can easily spend £200-300 on the equipment but I've heard of people spending more than that on just a few casings, my mate spent £650 on his GT750 engine and I wasn't impressed with the results when I saw it, not bragging but my finishes were much brighter and certainly more detailed, unlike most professional polishers the amateur can take the time to polish those areas where they just give up, it's these little touches which make the difference and make me want to spend the effort and money to do it myself.

CB750 / Re: Forks question ???
« on: September 25, 2012, 10:31:04 PM »
Then I'd suggest you ain't polishing them correctly Stu. There is a process to follow when polishing, you can't just get a rag out and some Solvol and expect good results. A good finish needs good prep work, the more effort you put into the prep the better the end result is.

This is the fork slider off my CB1300, compared to the 500 fork sliders these are 10x harder to do well. No sign of any discolouration on them at all. I've found that early alloy is actually better to polish than the later stuff like the 1300s.

CB750 / Re: Gordons frame kit
« on: September 25, 2012, 07:59:31 PM »
I'd still grease them, stainless whilst it doesn't rust does have an annoying habit of bonding itself to other stainless bits, there's a technical term for it but can't remember it now. Had a lower engine bar made from stainless and the nuts bonded themselves on so hard the rod snapped before the nut came loose.

CB750 / Re: Gordons frame kit
« on: September 25, 2012, 02:24:24 AM »
Nice job that, I'd make sure to grease those threaded bars up, will be a bitch to remove if they rust up.

CB500/550 / Re: Which clutch? advice appreciated
« on: September 25, 2012, 02:20:42 AM »
I have 2 500s, one has 263000 miles on it and the other 147000 miles. Neither has had a clutch, not plates or springs. Both clutches are very light to operate as I regularly used to grease the adjuster system. The 263000 mile one was raced for 2 seasons as well and the clutch still held up, Mr Honda certainly built them to last.

CB500/550 / Re: CB550F Gradually losing power and stopping...
« on: September 20, 2012, 04:45:23 PM »
Post 6 Lester

Thanks for the replies,

It is looking very much like a fuel starvation problem. I have since filled the tank completely and the bike's done 80 miles without missing a beat...!

The vent in the filler cap is fine, I'll have a look at the filter when I get a chance.



Misc / Open / Re: Minor crash, major pain :( cb400f2
« on: September 19, 2012, 02:56:32 PM »
Oh I don't know Bryan, just got a quote from john Campbell for a complete front to back system in quality stainless for my CB1300 and that was only £800, and it was a 4 into 4 system not a 4 into 1.
All he really needs is the headers, you could reuse the collector box I suppose.

Another solution is to use exhaust wrap, will cover up that unsightly mark a treat.

Misc / Open / Re: Minor crash, major pain :( cb400f2
« on: September 19, 2012, 03:18:52 AM »
Another possibilty is to ring John Campbell and see if he could make you a set of headers in stainless, I know he does them for late Hondas, not sure if he's done any vintage bikes. Only thought of John when I spotted you are in the London area, he's based just below the Dartford area, just off the M25.

CB500/550 / Re: CB550F Gradually losing power and stopping...
« on: September 19, 2012, 03:15:13 AM »
Might be true that lester except he says he's done 80 miles since filling the tank up without it missing a beat, if the jets were blocked that wouldn't happen. The only thing which makes sense if that's true is that the reserve outlet is blocked or restricted severely, running on main or normal fuel position means it's drawing fuel from up the tank away from any sediment on the bottom of the tank.
I'd agree though that your suggestion would be the perfect one except for those comments, seen it happen loads of times. I'd certainly remove the fuel tap and clean it's filter out regardless. Also I'd agree a look inside the carb bowls can't hurt either.

Misc / Open / Re: Minor crash, major pain :( cb400f2
« on: September 18, 2012, 09:39:18 PM »
Invest in a good set of crash bars, especially if your a new rider. It's easy to drop a bike when your new as you haven't got the experience of what to look for on the road, diesel spillages etc. The bars should help if your ever unfortunate enough to drop the bike again, easy to get the bars rechromed or just replaced etc not so easy when it's an engine panel or exhaust.

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