1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration

[MrDavo]

Well seeing as we now have a board for all things Bomberage, the 1969 CL450 I just bought might as well have a thread....

As bought on eBay:








The bike turned up this afternoon, with a receipt and NOVA certificate. Mark said Summerbud was a very slick operation - 'which bike?' - wheeled into van, swap money and paperwork, thankyou, next...







No nasty suprises, other than some crash damage to the very back of the mudguard that if not hidden by a numberplate / mudflap could be trimmed off. What I feared was an acid burn to the guard's chrome started to come off with solvol and elbow grease, so a run of spilled grey paint then, phew!

A small scratch to the top of the front mudguard, other than that it is like brand new, same with the rims. OEM Japanese Dunlops, very original finish to some of the alloy, but very yellowed laquer. The shocks look original, and work.

Clean oil, compression, O/S air filter is AWOL, a shame cos they are expensive (cleanable type). I'm thinking I might buy a pair though, as if one is new and one is ancient it wont help getting the carburation right. The twistgrip is connected and moves both carbs smoothly, the clutch frees off when you pull the lever when it's in gear.

The rear heatshield is a bit scratched, I will see what the options are for getting it chromed if I could polish the scratches out. The earlier heatshield would not fit this later exhaust system, which is almost like brand new, so is staying, Uli, how much do you want for the new rear heatshield you have?

Scratching and shell damage to the top of the headlamp, incorrect speedo and front brake lever, plus the mudguard damage at the rear and front top, point to it having been wheelied right over, as well as explaining the stupid low indicated mileage if it got a new speedo out of it on an insurance claim. Both clocks are properly fitted, but from looking at photos and parts lists the tacho is the correct one, the bezel is wrong on the speedo. I could live with the non matching speedo, but if I came across the correct one I would be temped to buy it and get Marcel to fettle it, assuming he deals with these twin cylinder abominations.

My first purchase came today, the new grey front brake cable. Now where in hell do I get the round tank badges, they seem to be made from unobtanium?

[MrDavo]

I’m confused after looking at gauges on eBay - the plastic glass on the tacho is higher than the instrument, the rim around the speedo is higher than the glass - which is right?

[JamesH]

The plastic face sitting proud of the gauge body is correct - the body of the gauge should be plastic as well (very similar to 750 K0 construction). So the tacho is the original item..

[MrDavo]

Bugger. Add the speedo to the list of things I want then.

I note an OEM head gasket is as much as a whole pattern gasket set. Is this another case, like the CB750, where I’d be better using a real Honda gasket to avoid later leaks? I think my 750 head gasket (from CMS) cost twice the whole set, but is absolutely dry.

[AshimotoK0]

If the plastic gauges are similar to the CB350K0 I have lots 

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[royhall]

Are you planning on doing a full nut and bolt restoration?

[MrDavo]

Are you planning on doing a full nut and bolt restoration?

Not in the OCD 'replace / refurbish anything that doesn't look brand new and check every bolt head has the correct symbol' way that I approached the CB750, more a 'sympathetic restoration', Roy.

I have realised I can't be too picky, although I wanted a bike with the K1 tank and side panels, checking out my VIN, CL450-1018xxx its actually a K2, it should have the tank with a white 'Honda' emblem, gold stripe  and the big gold triangular badges on the side panels. If the bodywork was as good as the chrome I reckon its been used to tart up another bike. It is a November 1969 bike though, so I reckon I'll get away with it, I'll also use an early seat, mine is the K2 version with pleats.

I think I'll go for candy blue, when I get my 750 stuff back from Menno I can use the box again to send him the bodywork. The fuel that came out of the tank was filthy, and it cant have run too well with a petcock filter full of mud. Better that than dry and rusty though.



Ash, that's an impressive clock mountain there, I reckon the speedo gearing may be different on the 350 though, they are all a different part number to the 450 versions. Certainly the CB350 had an 18" front wheel, CLs were 19".

Any road up, the late speedo I have looks NOS, given that I'm not being over picky, before I saw your post I  ordered a used later tacho to match it to give me a matching pair, I hope, even if not strictly right they should look good. I do need a set of bars and that cable guide that annoys me when I see it on a CB750, I didn't realise it was a CL part. The bars are the same as a CL350 amd SL350 though, you don't have a set do you Ash? There are plenty in the States, but the postage is far more than the part cost, they can't be the easiest (or lightest) thing to post.

My headlamp shell is broken around the edge, but I found a NOS one on eBay Australia that will arrive one day.

I pulled the motor yesterday, the plating on the exhaust is almost as good where you can't see it, and looking at the carbs its hard to beleive they are nearly 50 years old! They have that 'mother of pearl' effect that has sadly been lost on my CB750.





At some stage the rear brake lever has been bent and someone has knocked it back to vaguely where it ahould be by beating seven bells out of it with a big hammer, all the marks are still there.

I've always said that the trouble with 'barn finds' is that as well as putting right the ravages of time, you still have to fix whatever fault that made Bubba put it in the barn in the first place. I reckon with my bike he didn't get so far, due to the lack of a decent 12mm socket - one of the super tight head steady nuts was completely rounded, the rest of the engine bolts were completely untouched, or at least undamaged.



I cut the bugger off, I found that using an angle grinder very close to the wiring loom helps one concentrate.

He'd clearly never heard of JIS, most crossheads that come out for servicing are chewed beyond belief, some may have to be drilled out, and he had been in the clutch cover, or a real mechanic had, as all the screws are allen heads there. My guess is shagged gear selectors may have stopped the bike, they are known for it, and it's engine out and cases split to fix it - when he failed at the first hurdle in getting the motor out, he just gave up and got another toy.

Wriggling the motor out of the frame was a right PITA, probably there is a knack to it, I should have watched a Youtube video first, as it was we struggled (I borrowed my large mate Leigh, a 6'7" human engine hoist and veteran of CB750 and Harley engine lifts in the past).

Graham will be disappointed to find out I don't need a new engine stand, as it almost fits in the CB750 one, certainly enough to make it 'strong and stable' (Copyright T. May) enough to work on.

[JamesH]

Great start there and looks a really solid basis to rennovate...good work.

[MCTID]

My thoughts as well.........although it's sometimes really surprising how well some of these old bikes have stood up to the ravages of 40 years of sitting in sh1te. 

Looking forward to seeing all the good (and bad) bits of this rebuild.

Bubba (and his mates) didn't take too well to Metric and JIS fixings did they ! but 'Nils carborundum bast*rdum' always prevails in the end.

Good luck and please post plenty of pics as you progress.

[MrDavo]

Thanks for your comments, I only got an hour in the garage last night, I was hoping to get the head off but stopped when I realised my chain splitter hadn't a hope in hell of getting in the space available.

I started by taking the cam covers off, the points were as new (though the ones on the right don't seem to meet as square as you'd like), but numb nuts here took the inlet cover off with a bit of a struggle before realising I'd just pulled a camshaft bearing, and the cam was now cocked at a jaunty angle with one of the valves open! I hope I haven't bent a valve already, time will tell, anyway I put the cover back on so I can turn the engine over without damaging anything (else?).



Like many other things, the cams were in remarkably good condition. As I turned the motor, fresh oil ran down the lobe of the r/h exhaust cam, so there is still pressure. (I haven't dropped the oil yet).




I peered in through the plugholes, on the up side what I saw of the valves was good, nice seating surfaces, but now I am more anxious to get the head off, as all is not well with the right hand piston crown - not something I could get a photo of, but I can see multiple silver marks in the black carbon, either someone poking the piston with a pointy thing through the plughole (but why?) or detonation - maybe a consequence of running the bike with a fuel filter full of mud! While the left hand carb had crystals of crud from long evaporated petrol, the right hand side float bowl was clean and bone dry.

I am now worried by those photos of mullahed 350 heads we've seen on here recently, I don't mind shelling out for a new piston or a rebore, but please don't let the head be a mess..  Bubba was clearly after something with his ill fitting tool kit, before he slung the bike in a corner and walked away forever.

I found the soft link, and when it was on the position in the photos the cams were lined up with their timing marks.



I will be fitting a new chain, from later reading on the twins forum, it seems I will be OK grinding the pin ends and drifting the link out - I will be cleaning everything anyway but I'll shove a load of paper or cloth into the cam tunnel to catch the swarf.

Feck knows what I'll use to re rivet the new chain but that's a long way down the thread from here.

[royhall]

Do you have a photo of the original clocks. I may have a set in a box somewhere. Now that's going to be a search and a half, but at least if I have a picture of what i'm looking for it will help. Cheers.

[MrDavo]

Hi Roy, don't worry about it for now, I have an alloy and glass tacho on the way from Canada to match the speedo, which is VGC, I reckon the original plastic speedo may have got broken and replaced when Bubba dropped it. I prefer the quality of the later ones, which match whats on my CB750K1. If I was going to show the bike I might think differently, but then I'd be after a K2 tank as well.



You can also see the broken headlamp shell, apparently people dont realise you have to turn the rim to free it once the screws are out.

Anyway, I've owned this thing a whole week now, and the curiosity to find out what's inside was too much to bear.....

I got the head and barrels off last night, whatever mileage its really done, it's can't be a lot, and I'm fairly confident I'm the first in there, which means the internals last saw the light of day in Japan, when I was going to school on the bus, in shorts and a cap (which I was always getting in trouble for not wearing).

I was worrying I'd be in a world of stuck on gaskets and scraping and prising again, but it came apart very easily, maybe the CB750 was assembled using glue.

The first challenge was to remove the cover over the alternator rotor, so I could get a socket on the end of the crank to turn the engine over, Bubba had completely butchered the screws.



Luckily his lack of adequate tools meant that the screws weren't that tight in the first place, a couple of carefull taps with a small chisel losened them enough to get them out with a small flat screwdriver! If anyone knows where I can get an ungouged early type cover (I think CB450 is the same) let me know.

The next obstacle was grinding the pins off the soft link on the cam chain, I removed the tensioner and used lockwire attched to the kickstart to hold it clear, to give me some room without the use of fingers. I also bunged all the orices up with paper to catch any swarf.



No room to safely use the angle grinder, just as well I think, I found a small grindstone that fitted in my cordless drill instead. That nearly did the trick, I had to finish with a file when the stone broke - as it didn't hit me in the face or bounce off the 911 bonnet there was no health and safety issue at all.  Luckily the drill wasn't going very fast when it happened.



A tap on the pin end with a small punch and the link came apart, then just undo the nuts on the head studs. Inside the head, all looks well:



I took the inlet cam out, hardly any sign of wear:



It must have been stored a long time with a valve open on the right hand side, that air filter was AWOL too,  what I thought was piston damage when I shone a torch down the plug hole turned out to be the carbon going a bit mouldy. There was some rust on the rings in there too but not loads, whipping the barrels off showed the middle ring was stuck, I've just sprayed it all with easing oil and left it to penetrate for now.




The left pot must've had both valves shut, it was pretty pristine.



No lip at all in the bores, I reckon they'll clean up fine. A bit of a watermark where the rings rusted though.



Finally the pistons themselves, very little wear to the skirts at the front:



But nasty scuffs at the back, whether caused by poor oil maintainance, abuse from cold (my guess) or just turning it over with crud in the bores rather than oil I don't know. However I reckon I can reuse them, its the ring seal and bore that really counts.



I can't feel any play in the small or big ends, which is a blessing. After the dramas I had with the barrel studs in the 750, despite being told to leave them alone, this time I'll leave these in if I can.

[K2-K6]

Doesn't looks like it's done many miles at all by the markings within their engine.

Technically it's a very interesting engine and will worth watching to see how you get on with it.

Out of interest,  what spark plugs are in it?

[MrDavo]

Out of interest,  what spark plugs are in it?

NGK B8E S plugs, marked as 'Assembled in USA from Japanese Parts' - at first I thought they were newer because the plating hasn't gone dull at all, but after looking in the float bowls I am sure noone has tried to get it running in recent years.

I was tempted to chuck a battery and fresh fuel in, and have a go, but decided I could do more harm than good. Besides until I get a pair of fresh air cleaners (ordered), the carburation would have been up the swanee.

[K2-K6]

It doesn't look like you've much to sort out engine wise,  probably a good call not to start it with that corrosion on rings and bore one side.

Like that I think the components are recoverable with care as they don't appear to be damaged, If the bores will clean up without leaving any real marks it probably wouldn't give any issues.