SOHC.co.uk Forums > The Black Bomber Board
1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
MrDavo:
I was hoping to get on with the engine today, but no joy as I straight away had another knockpin knockback!
Firstly, this is where I'm hamstrung by the parts books available online being for the K0 or K2, and mine is a K1, according to the engine and VIN numbers - the K0 crank is quite different, as we've already learned. Despite parts books for the K2 listing 3 knockpins, and a different stepped one (which is what I bought from CMS), there are in fact holes for 4 10x8 pins - Grr! I mentioned before the originals went AWOL, possibly accidentaly chucked but who knows - anyway we are where we are. So I need another one.
If I had it I would still be stymied, as the rotor side outer cage is on the wrong way round! If I put the knockpin in, the oil feed wouldn't be anywhere near the corresponding hole in the case, see the photo. At least I have the sense to realise this, but it does p*ss me off. I should send the crank back for the builder to put right, but the packing, post delay and what have you mean I can't be arsed. I havent got a rotor puller, but I was going to buy one anyway, just a bit sooner than anticipated.
I decided to build the head up, and ran into a mystery regarding valve stem seals. There weren't any when I stripped it down, K2 parts lists show them, and they aren't in my gasket set. They are also £10 a pop from DS. WTF?
I just looked at the K0 CB450 parts list that Ashley put up and don't see them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jj3kxdzg2k8rklb/Honda%20CB450%20K0%20Parts%20List%20Manual.pdf?dl=0
I'm assuming that CL and CB 450 went through the same K0 -K1 - K2 progression at the same time, but I don't know for sure, I'm assuming they did it by the model season, as the CB750 seems to (again I don't know this for a fact, the board members who worked for Honda dealerships may know different).
Page 27 of the Honda manual shows the valve guide seals, but it is a 'catch all' manual covering all models.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/stqw7jm89xtt1rz/CB450%20Factory%20Service%20Manual%20.pdf?dl=0
CMS have them IN their parts list for both the K0 and K2. :o
Maybe my bike was put back together without (remember the only sign that someones ever been in before me was the misplaced cam roller knockpin), I wonder if it then smoked like something out of a Cheech and Chong sketch?
I do need these seals in a K1 yes or no?
EDIT: Found an online CB450 K1 parts list. Assuming they are the same engine, other than gearing, I need to compare it with what I've got - page 9 part 16.
https://mafiadoc.com/queue/cb450-k1-parts-manual_59d80c8a1723ddac700463eb.html
Iffy hosting, the green buttons lead to spam, but it is a free download.
So today I will be mostly wet and drying and polishing the alloy bits instead. It needs doing and rewards the effort put in.
AshimotoK0:
Looking at that K1 download Dave there are no seals ...Looking in the Haynes manual they describe a 2 piece stem seal but I guess their bike they used as a stripdown is a later than K1 model as it begins with a 3. So I would summarize that your bike never had them. There were none on the '69 CB250/350's either. If the clearance between your valves and guides is good you should be fine IMHO and I don't suppose your finished bike is going to do loads of miles. Trig or Bryan may know better though. Mick Taylor (kettle738) has owned & rebuilt K0 & K1's so I will ask him if you like.
Bummer on the crank not being done properly.. I think with my bomber crank I will just try to flush it out thoroughly with solvent without disassembly ..I will probably be shot down in flames for doing this but there ya go.
EDIT: Just checked '3' prefix is K2 so Haynes bike was a K2 and so it looks like K2 had stem seals.
I have used a Fiat van wheel bolt as a rotor puller. Now I use an old CB250K rear wheel axle with a 'T' bar welded to it. Seems to work OK.
Seabeowner:
Great in depth restoration Dave.
If it's a K1 what's up with CMS for lists? Maybe you have as I haven't read the whole thread in detail.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb450k1-1968-usa_model449/partslist/
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb450k1-1968-usa_model449/partslist/E++10.html#results
Not always to be trusted 100%, but pretty good.
AshimotoK0:
Appear to have been fitted on this guy's '69 CL
http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/55-engine-discussion/35824-valve-guide-valve-stem-seal-questions-pictures.html
MrDavo:
I hadn't thought of looking for the CB450 K1 on CMS, as the CL parts lists go straight from K0 to K2. There you go, no seal on the CB K1 version, as I said the same engine, different cycle parts and gearing. That guy on the twins forum probably has a 1969 K2, which is quite different in some repects, the later tank seat etc, that does have a seal. I don't know when the change was, it must have been very late in the year as my K1 was made in November 1969, but the CMS parts list is specifically for the 1969 K2 CL450. All very confusing.
Anyway there was no seal, all the K1 listings I've seen show no seal, that's £40 saved.
Today I was mostly polishing:
The rear cam cover is an original looking silver paint finish, oddly, maybe it was easier to keep clean that way. I noticed the oil seal for the points drive shaft - I haven't already got a new one, so at least I won't be just ordering a knock pin from Silvers, it seemed a waste of the postage charge for something so tiny.
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