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The Dutch 450

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K2-K6:
Making it much harder to gain a clear view in the original thread are the number of variations / modifications that have been made from original specification,  it may be useful to list those items.

Using car specified oil as opposed to motorcycle specific.
Change oil to synthetic.
Change of oil viscosity.
Change of oil pump.
Change of oil filter type.
Deletion of pressure releif valve.
Change of oil service interval.
External filtration of oil.
Increase of starting valve clearances.
Fitment of magnet in sump.
Change of cylinder bore honing method to plateu.

How to judge the effect of these as they interact is no small task. It would certainly keep a R&D department busy,  even in descrete multiple engine examples.
Some of the effects are certainly evaluated more clearly but it more easily obscures those which may be detrimental. Or something detrimental may negate a positive,  in which case it would be easy to dismiss something that could be of benefit.

UK Pete:
Wow what a good read, i missed original posts having been away from this forum for  a year ,

K2-K6:
Thanks Pete, it was good to see your name pop up on the forum again after such a gap, hope you're well.

MrDavo,  I'm of a similar opinion regarding oil type and will work my way towards that after trying to get all the other stuff out of my head and onto paper,  as it were.

I think that Jensen made a fascinating project which I'm trying to make sure I don't diminish. But I do think that a view from perhaps a different angle can be complimentary to things like this. Hopefully it'll be seen as something of a peer review and constructive,  that's what I'm aiming at.

Nigel.

K2-K6:
Changing the oil filter to a paper type I can't see the advantage of doing.

I'll say, it looks to me, like the centrifuge type holds an advantage over the paper type as that's what published data indicates.

Its any easy view to project that newer (paper cartridge type)  filtration method would simply be better than an "old fashioned" rotating filter. But it seems generally that paper type,  without special arrangements will be filtering down to about 10 microns particals size. The centrifuge appears to operate around 3 micron. How true that is would be down to specifics.
It looks like deletion of the centrifuge would have originally taken place for production bikes as it's simply cheaper to not include a chunk of engineering from the design. Replaced with a filter element,  in an external chamber that can help to cool the oil while reducing production and design costs seems attractive. It doesn't look like it happened for filtration reasons.

I know the original thread examines the ability to remove particals as part of the decision,  and I can see that if you use 60 viscosity oil it could impact that performance,  but so will trying to push that increased viscosity through a paper filter.
It doesn't appear to make sense as a modification to these engines. Perhaps someone else can offer a move informed view.

In addition,  if the type of pump is giving pulsed oil pressure rather than linear there seems to be some opinions that may impact a cartridge / paper filter.

I'd be inclined to side with the opinion that Honda knew what they we're doing as opposed to modified part without understanding completely what this mod offers as an improvement.

AshimotoK0:
Nigel .. I have been away a week on holiday and just read all of this ...fascinating stuff .. I still need to go back and re-read all of Jensen's posts on this. I often get criticised myself over in depth posts like this... for example on my coil repair write-up and CX500 CDI rebuild I get comment like 'why bother when there are el-cheopo alternatives out there' and it's sometimes hard to convince non-electrical people that using a 2 Ohm coil instead of the original 4.5 Ohm one means that the points are making over twice the current, that they normally would. Jensen's original posts and your replies are always there for future reference though. Members on all forums come and go but provided that the posts don't get buried (as they often do on our USA sister site) there is always new blood coming along to appreciate all of your efforts. You will also find a lot of posts from Jensen on Honda305.com but I think he had to change his handle on there to 'Jensey' as his 'Jensen' identity was lost on there.

Cheers ... Ash

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