SOHC.co.uk Forums > The Black Bomber Board

Later Alloy Body Oil Pump in K0 Bomber

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MrDavo:
I think K0 ones are bent like that, though that one is advertised as later, luckily both of mine have a straight arm, or that would be another thing to worry about.

jensen:
CB450 K0 indeed, these arms are bend this way. Yes, you can mount them wrong, but the clutch won't turn 360 deg easily

AshimotoK0:
I have booked to go to see the man with the NOS oil pump etc tomorrow to buy it and I will trawl his old  literature to see if there are any Service Bulletins left from Honda UK's Service  dept. on the CB450,  if he will let me (pretty sure it won't be a problem...he's a nice bloke.

Meanwhile, I have PM'ed the member on HondaTwins.net to see if he will send me the SB's he originally posted but got deleted due to Photobucket.

Dave ..  if we find we both end up needing  a spacer making, I can bung the guy where I work  a few quid to make us a couple.....it won't cost much and I can probably get phosphor bronze from where I used to work across the road for free. That's if they need to be PB. Jensen?

Just noticed this in the States:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-1969-Honda-Motorcycle-Dealer-Service-Bulletins-CB350-CL350-CB450-L926/131686996680?hash=item1ea9281ac8:g:QiUAAOSw5IJWgXiX

MrDavo:
Whether we need that washer depends on whether that kit is to upgrade a K0 only or not. If I used the K1 rod, with the 500T piston attached, then surely there isn’t room for an extra washer.

If we do need one I’d be happy to go halves with you, Ashley.

We need more info about that kit, I think, or a clear scan of the instructions so we can check the number of the pump it replaces. Lots of our US cousins seem to have upgraded using a new piston on an old rod, what we don’t know, of course is what state it all was in 5,000 miles later. Some of these guys think it’s ok to delete head steadys and do tappets by ear, after all.

If I don’t know for sure what I’m doing before I’m ready for the road i’d Be tempted to go back to stock for a safe option.

royhall:
I have been watching these oil pump threads for quite some time now as I am about to start the restoration of my Bomber. I have read through most of the articles posted on here and on a few other sites, and have been generally impressed with the in depth analysis. I do hope my take on things does not upset anybody as that is not my intention, but I do also expect to be shot down in flames over this. :D   However!

A couple of things have jumped out at me that I found surprising. Firstly, I very much doubt that Honda thought one day that they would just stick a bigger pump on the 450 and leave it at that. The changeover from the steel to alloy bodied larger pump would have been together with a whole host of other changes to the lubrication system. Nowhere have I read on any of the sites a complete list of what these changes were as frankly, I don't think anybody really knows. My point is, just changing to a later pump without the other mods is not only pointless it probably introduces new negative issues. This has been covered in some of the threads ie. broken pump drives, opening up oil passages, now the offset of the plunger arm has become an issue, etc etc.

IMHO this perceived exhaust cam problem has its roots in lack of oil changes and generally poor maintenance. Remember we are restoring 1960's bikes here where back in the day riders were used to Triumphs where oiling was not a problem. A man using a Bomber as only transport would cover a 1000 miles in three weeks, and who had the disposable income back then to change the oil every three weeks. No, they were ridden like Triumphs that would do big miles without an oil change. Thus the problem arose.

Today we rarely ride these classics like that, so to my mind this larger pump issue is "a solution looking for a problem". My rebuild is therefore probably going to have a NOS standard pump and be reassembled as Honda intended. After all, Honda spent millions back then developing this highly sophisticated engine. Then oil changes every 1000 miles or so and careful attention to the valve clearances.

If anybody could supply me with a complete list of the changes that were made by Honda at the time of the oil pump replacement I would love to upgrade the Bomber, but without that I see no point. Sorry.

I am however, very impressed with Jensen's work on the fully synthetic oil. I may follow that approach.

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