SOHC.co.uk Forums > CB500/550
Swingarm play?
Bryanj:
Yes it does, which is why the original cup and cone with loose balls get notchy AND SO DO TAPER ROLLERS.
In a wheel bearing situation tapers will last well over 100,000 miles but i have seen "notchy" taper head bearings at less than 20,000 when i was testing.
Oddjob:
Quite a few of the later Hondas are using needle rollers now as well. My CB1300 has roller bearings at one end, 2 of them, and needle roller at the other. So long as they are greased they seem to last ok, however I got an advisory on play on it's first MOT, Honda seem to have forgotten what grease looks like.
I've actually found 4 new needle rollers for the kit, for the future, just in case it ever needs them.
K2-K6:
I don't feel that needle rollers have any problem at all with handling the loads encountered here, specific materials may have caused a problem (that's material integrity, specification though ) but the concept is sound and doesn't need to rotate to keep it alive.
There's difference in bearing design for roller arrangement, with crowded, no cage favouring highest load and lowest speed of movement. Caged, with seperated rollers usually in high axle speed demands.
Lubricant too, these slow and low angular applications need ordinarily molybdenum disulfide grease to pair with their movement characteristics if load is extreme. Driveline coupling does exactly this, with CV joint using balls in grooves with very little movement even during turning. Also propshaft UJ (universal joints) that use crowded needle type with very very low roll movements, again with molybdenum disulfide grease in high torque applications. These are almost identical in load and lubrication to the swingarm application.
Wheel bearings (ball race or taper roller) don't use molly grease as it builds heat in the bearings at continuous and raised speed installation, they ordinarily use lithium base grease that runs thin at point of contact to avoid this, reducing systemic friction too in comparison to molly type.
The needle type should have no problems if specified and lubricated properly. They of course have no thrust and need something to prevent sideways movement, but so do plain bushes.
Oddjob:
So are you suggesting using MolyD grease on the swinging arm if using needle rollers Nigel?
Funnily enough, just bought 2 new grease guns, ones for cartridge LM grease and the other I was thinking of filling with MolyD.
K2-K6:
--- Quote from: Oddjob on April 16, 2022, 09:12:32 PM ---So are you suggesting using MolyD grease on the swinging arm if using needle rollers Nigel?
Funnily enough, just bought 2 new grease guns, ones for cartridge LM grease and the other I was thinking of filling with MolyD.
--- End quote ---
Yes Ken, it's the right application for that, the headstock too.
There's absolutely no need for any speed (linear speed of bearings in that usage) with the MollyD being ideal for that movement and load handling environment.
On that vein, the original plastic type should benefit from using a PG75 grease for the best longevity with material usege originally.
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