SOHC.co.uk Forums > CB500/550
Plug caps and plugs
Nurse Julie:
--- Quote from: Sesman on June 01, 2022, 02:04:42 PM ---News flash.
According to Greenspark the NGK D7ES are now obsolete and will not be taking on any more stock.
--- End quote ---
Never used D7ES, only ever used D7EA or D8EA or the Denso equivalent.
IIRC the D7ES was superseded by the D7EA years ago.
Sesman:
Yes, sorry. My typo….Lordy.
K2-K6:
--- Quote from: deltarider on June 01, 2022, 01:51:46 PM ---So far - and I have kept record - the various European fora suggest an OEM standard suppression of around 6,5kΩ. Not only matches it my own findings, but it is consistent with Honda France's advice to replace caps once they read > 8kΩ. What legislation in other markets require(d)? I have no idea. Can these engines run with a 11,5kΩ (that's a 23kΩ in one circuit!) resistance? No doubt, when everything is new, why not?
What I'm very much against, is folks attributing some - sofar unknown - benificial effect, without anything to substantiate this, let alone to deliver proof. Then - so, it seems - it comes down to who said it. Sorry, but the rules are for everyone the same. When somebody is right, say 80% of the time, people should still feel free to criticise where that person is wrong. In the international forum only a few do this and I don't need more than five fingers to count them...
--- End quote ---
To discuss if there's a benefit of any type in using different resistance in these system is a completely stand alone topic. If a seperate thread is needed to consider that, it should be initiated.
My view is that anything I write should be challenged as it's an open forum. By that method we can all see if reliable information, with a technically defined reason is available in considering any topic.
As to the question of "can you run both 5 resistance plugs and 5 resistance caps?" then the answer is, from honda, that you can and without detrimental effect, consideration of setting etc.
So far there is no presented information you can provide that brings a change of view contrary to the Honda combustion designers that tells us why technically we can't do this.
Unless that's available, it should be seen for what it is, either a commercial aspect, a notional view which is not based on facts, or similar that's embedded for no relevant technical reason when this is described. This is not technical competance.
Where is a scource of information traceable to those originating Honda engineers that designed, tested and proved the specification, or that gives us proper overview of why this should be different. You don't have that as far as I can see.
Trigger:
Honda have been so wrong with a ton of statements over the years and the wrong information in manuals :o
I have had many problems with many bikes over the years using R rated plugs and resistant caps. I have maybe 100's members in my phone on whatsapp that i have solved there misfire, hunting problems by advising the just change the plugs to non resistant and switch to Denso plugs and that has been on the standard points set up and Dyna set ups.
A good example is : One member in Ireland had hunting and misfire on his 400/4 for years. He had tried everything and had spent a fortune on Dyna ignition, coils, having his carbs rebuilt, new inlet rubbers. Sending me video's of the problem monthly , i told him to take his non resistant plugs out of his 500 four and put them in his 400/4. The next video he sent, the bike was running perfect and he was that grateful that, he sent me a new kitchen on a truck from Ireland as, they have a manufacturing company. :)
Experience wins with me all the time and not just because a computer says so ;)
deltarider:
Thank you Trigger, thank you very much! I thought I was about to go crazy. BTW, your experience matches at least two specialists on CBFours in Holland. They have even issued a warning.*
@K2-K6 I thought I had made myself clear, but here it is again. I have never, ever stated you can't run both resistor caps and R plugs. When new, why not? Personally I find 6,5kΩ (cap) and 5kΩ (plug) = 11,5kΩ x 2 = 23kΩ in one circuit quite a lot for suppression and this level may come close to compromising reliability. My personal experience with Denso R plugs is, that they even increase their resistance over time and so do the plugcaps...
Furthermore in the international forum I have been the first one to point at the excessive suppresion in Canada, if was true what someone claimed that the OEM plugcaps resistance was 10kΩ to start with. If. In that case Canada would have had, provided there was no error in the parts list: 10kΩ (cap) and 5kΩ (plug) = 15kΩ x 2 = 30kΩ in one circuit. That's a lot!
In spite of all my research, I haven't been able to find specifications about the plugcaps resistance in any Honda document, let alone in Honda's elaborate volume Motorcycle Electrical Systems**
* https://honda4parts.nl/product_info.php?products_id=332&language=en&ceid=a3acafccefb1aba9af3cec2df24953d8
** Honda Technical Series.https://www.honda4fun.com/dwnload/Wiring/Honda-Motorcycle-Electrical-Systems.pdf
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