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Martin6:
--- Quote from: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 02, 2024, 06:46:52 PM ---This comes up on Mr Google
Do Motorcycles Need Front Number Plates?
Motorcycles, motor tricycles, and mopeds registered on or after the 1st of September 2001 only need to display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.
If registered before the 1st of September 2001, you are allowed to display a number plate at the front, but it’s entirely up to you.
Gov.UK Quote as below from their website.
If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle
Motorcycles and motor tricycles registered on or after 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.
If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle registered before 1 September 2001 you can also display a number plate at the front, but you do not have to.
This is why Solicitors make money, the law generally only describes what is a legal requirement (a must), it does not generally go on to say what is unlawful (commonly called illegal). It's interesting that the Theft Act 1968 does not define in the act what is meant by Dishonest, it does devote quite a lot of text to describe what is Not Dishonest
, it is left for the Jury to decide on facts if the defendant acted dishonestly. Traffic law is quite different in that most legislation is an absolute offence so no fault is involved.
So after 1st September you must (need?) only display a rear number plate it does not as usual cattegorically say it's unlawful to continue to display a front VRM after that date. IIRC the law on registration plates does not come from the Road Traffic Act or The Construction & Use Legislation, it comes under The Vehicle Excise Act. (I am a couple of decades out of touch on current law that is enforced by the Police so correct me if wrong)
IIRC the change in legislation for motorcycles was as a result of pedestrians being severely injured at quite low speeds by the way the front number plate was fitted. If you have a front fairing then clearly an adhesive front number plate displayed on either side or if there is room at the front of the fairing is not going to cause any additional injury.
I suspect that if you mounted an old style number plate on the front mudguard post 1st September 2002 you are in effect trying to defeat the object of the change in legislation to reduce injury, you might commit an offence under the 'Dangerous Parts' legislation for consideration by the CPS.
If anyone can find a specific Act & Section that makes it an offence to display a front number plate of any type on a motor cycle post 1st Sept 2002 I would find that interesting reading.
--- End quote ---
Ted, here's the wording from 'The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001, PART II':
"(5) In the case of a motor cycle or a motor tricycle which does not have a body of a type which is characteristic of the body of a four-wheeled vehicle—
(a)a registration plate must not be fixed on the front of a vehicle if it was first registered on or after 1st September 2001,
(b)a plate need not be fixed on the front of the vehicle if it was first registered before 1st September 2001."
So, (a) makes it an offence ("must not") to display on post 1/9/2001 Motorcycles.
Part (b) allows you to display on earlier vehicles, but you "need not".
Your comment on the Theft Act, "dishonestly", as you say, the Act has 2 conditions that if either is satisfied are deemed not dishonest. Otherwise the question is left to the jury, but only after they have been directed on the law by the judge. In our legal system, the law is made up of statute (Act of Parliament and delegated legislation, such as regulations / statutory instruments) and 'common law' from previous court case decisions by judges, also known as 'precedent'. Where dishonesty is a question for the jury and not dealt with by the 2 statutory exceptions, the judge draws on the common law to direct the jury on how they must consider that question. I think the current position for criminal cases is the Supreme Court's definition in R v Ivey (subsequently confirmed by the Supreme Court in 2020 in Booth & Another v R):
"- what was the defendant's actual state of knowledge or belief as to the facts; and
- based on those facts, was his conduct dishonest by the standards of ordinary decent people?"
I am an anorak! Hope you never need to test this info! 😀 👍
McCabe-Thiele (Ted):
--- Quote from: Martin6 on December 03, 2024, 02:50:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 02, 2024, 06:46:52 PM ---This comes up on Mr Google
Do Motorcycles Need Front Number Plates?
Motorcycles, motor tricycles, and mopeds registered on or after the 1st of September 2001 only need to display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.
If registered before the 1st of September 2001, you are allowed to display a number plate at the front, but it’s entirely up to you.
Gov.UK Quote as below from their website.
If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle
Motorcycles and motor tricycles registered on or after 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.
If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle registered before 1 September 2001 you can also display a number plate at the front, but you do not have to.
This is why Solicitors make money, the law generally only describes what is a legal requirement (a must), it does not generally go on to say what is unlawful (commonly called illegal). It's interesting that the Theft Act 1968 does not define in the act what is meant by Dishonest, it does devote quite a lot of text to describe what is Not Dishonest
, it is left for the Jury to decide on facts if the defendant acted dishonestly. Traffic law is quite different in that most legislation is an absolute offence so no fault is involved.
So after 1st September you must (need?) only display a rear number plate it does not as usual cattegorically say it's unlawful to continue to display a front VRM after that date. IIRC the law on registration plates does not come from the Road Traffic Act or The Construction & Use Legislation, it comes under The Vehicle Excise Act. (I am a couple of decades out of touch on current law that is enforced by the Police so correct me if wrong)
IIRC the change in legislation for motorcycles was as a result of pedestrians being severely injured at quite low speeds by the way the front number plate was fitted. If you have a front fairing then clearly an adhesive front number plate displayed on either side or if there is room at the front of the fairing is not going to cause any additional injury.
I suspect that if you mounted an old style number plate on the front mudguard post 1st September 2002 you are in effect trying to defeat the object of the change in legislation to reduce injury, you might commit an offence under the 'Dangerous Parts' legislation for consideration by the CPS.
If anyone can find a specific Act & Section that makes it an offence to display a front number plate of any type on a motor cycle post 1st Sept 2002 I would find that interesting reading.
--- End quote ---
Ted,
Your comment on the Theft Act, "dishonestly", as you say, the Act has 2 conditions that if either is satisfied are deemed not dishonest. Otherwise the question is left to the jury, but only after they have been directed on the law by the judge. In our legal system, the law is made up of statute (Act of Parliament and delegated legislation, such as regulations / statutory instruments) and 'common law' from previous court case decisions by judges, also known as 'precedent'. Where dishonesty is a question for the jury and not dealt with by the 2 statutory exceptions, the judge draws on the common law to direct the jury on how they must consider that question. I think the current position for criminal cases is the Supreme Court's definition in R v Ivey (subsequently confirmed by the Supreme Court in 2020 in Booth & Another v R):
"- what was the defendant's actual state of knowledge or belief as to the facts; and
- based on those facts, was his conduct dishonest by the standards of ordinary decent people?"
I am an anorak! Hope you never need to test this info! 😀 👍
--- End quote ---
I am a bit of an Anorak, If I cast my mind back to Panal Ash Police District Training Center in October 1971 as a new recruit you were given a small (yellow?)book that contained about 100 definitions in law that had to be learnt word perfect during the 16 week residential course. We lived in dormatories of about 16 each, your bed was made into a bed pack every morning for inspection. I learnt how to march (badly), we returned later in service (18-20 months later) for a Continuation Course at RAF Dishforth a shared facilty.
The first definition was of a Police Constable that you had to learn in the first night, tested the next day in class by the course instructor. I might have missed the odd word out but it's close enough.
" A Constable is a Citizen, locally appointed, having authority under the Crown, for the protection of life and property, the prevention & detection of crime,the maintainance of law and order and the prosecution of offenders aginst the Queens Peace."
Bryanj:
Sorry to pedantic but "King's Peace"
McCabe-Thiele (Ted):
--- Quote from: Bryanj on December 03, 2024, 08:53:16 PM ---Sorry to pedantic but "King's Peace"
--- End quote ---
I was quoting 1971 Bryan - that's my defence.
Another definition was "The Queens Peace or shorty the Peace is the normal state of Society, any interuption of that Peace or good order was a Breach of the Peace"
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