Bacon slicers

[Gmac]

What is the legality with front mudguard mounted number plates ?

They're common on early British bikes, and I've seen a few early 750s with them, but not many. Are they illegal after a certain year ?

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I'm not sure if they were illegal as such, back in the day they removed the requirement for a front number plate on a motor cycle after a certain date.  Might be like they did with car Mascots where they had to be spring mounted after a certain production date.

My first 250 Dream had the double sided number plate mounted on the front mudguard, my later 250  had a front number plate mounted horizontally at the front as in this photo, This was back in 1962-64 period.
Ted's Honda 250 circa 1967 by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr

[Nurse Julie]

They were never made illegal back in the day, they were made optional from about 1973. But, any bike registered after September 2001 cannot legally display a front number plate.

[Gmac]

so you could fit one to a '74 if that's your choice ?

[Nurse Julie]

so you could fit one to a '74 if that's your choice ?

Yes, but it needs to have the correct mudguard fitted, ie, a UK model one, as USA model ones don't have the fitting holes.

[AshimotoK0]

To me the bacon slicers were always the discs like on this bike. The number plate was the 'pedestrian slicer' 

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[Sesman]

Me too🤔

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

This comes up on Mr Google

Do Motorcycles Need Front Number Plates?

Motorcycles, motor tricycles, and mopeds registered on or after the 1st of September 2001 only need to display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.

If registered before the 1st of September 2001, you are allowed to display a number plate at the front, but it’s entirely up to you.

Gov.UK Quote as below from their website.

If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle
Motorcycles and motor tricycles registered on or after 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.

If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle registered before 1 September 2001 you can also display a number plate at the front, but you do not have to.

This is why Solicitors make money, the law generally only describes what is a legal requirement (a must), it does not generally go on to say what is unlawful (commonly called illegal). It's interesting that the Theft Act 1968 does not define in the act what is meant by  Dishonest, it does devote quite a lot of text to describe what is Not Dishonest
, it is left for the Jury to decide on facts if the defendant acted dishonestly. Traffic law is quite different in that most legislation is an absolute offence so no fault is involved.

So after 1st September you must (need?) only display a rear number plate it does not as usual cattegorically say it's unlawful to continue to display a front VRM after that date. IIRC the law on registration plates does not come from the Road Traffic Act or The Construction & Use Legislation, it comes under The Vehicle Excise Act. (I am a couple of decades out of touch on current law that is enforced by the Police so correct me if wrong)

IIRC the change in legislation for motorcycles was as a result of pedestrians being severely injured at quite low speeds by the way the front number plate was fitted. If you have a front fairing then clearly an adhesive front number plate displayed on either side or if there is room at the front of the fairing is not going to cause any additional injury.

I suspect that if you mounted an old style number plate on the front mudguard post 1st September 2002 you are in effect trying to defeat the object of the change in legislation to reduce injury,  you might commit an offence under the 'Dangerous Parts' legislation for consideration by the CPS. 

If anyone can find a specific  Act & Section that  makes it an offence to display a front number plate of any type on a motor cycle post 1st Sept 2002 I would find that interesting reading.

[Laverda Dave]

To me the bacon slicers were always the discs like on this bike. The number plate was the 'pedestrian slicer' 

(Attachment Link)

Nice Triton Ash, I like the bacon slicers  .
I finally got to ride mine last week after completing all the repairs following its unscheduled departure off the lifting table back in August. First time I have ridden it for over 20 years and following its protracted rebuild! It was an experience for the ears, wrists and senses. I do need to put it on a rolling road though to fine tune the ignition and fueling but that will have to wait until the spring.

[Bryanj]

Its a Triumph, its not suposed to have the ignition and carbs correct, especially on both sides at the same time

[Sesman]

Oh, yes that’s really nice. Mines nearly finished in the background 😁😁😁 Visited Andy Molnar last year to pick up mudguards, brackets, seat and other goodies. How do you rate the commando front brake. Does it have the stiffening kit fitted?

[Sesman]

Incidentally, I don’t suppose you know where I might lay my hands on a T160 kickstart?

[Gmac]

This comes up on Mr Google

Do Motorcycles Need Front Number Plates?

Motorcycles, motor tricycles, and mopeds registered on or after the 1st of September 2001 only need to display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.

If registered before the 1st of September 2001, you are allowed to display a number plate at the front, but it’s entirely up to you.

Gov.UK Quote as below from their website.

If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle
Motorcycles and motor tricycles registered on or after 1 September 2001 must only display a number plate at the rear of the vehicle.

If you ride a motorbike or motor tricycle registered before 1 September 2001 you can also display a number plate at the front, but you do not have to.

This is why Solicitors make money, the law generally only describes what is a legal requirement (a must), it does not generally go on to say what is unlawful (commonly called illegal). It's interesting that the Theft Act 1968 does not define in the act what is meant by  Dishonest, it does devote quite a lot of text to describe what is Not Dishonest
, it is left for the Jury to decide on facts if the defendant acted dishonestly. Traffic law is quite different in that most legislation is an absolute offence so no fault is involved.

So after 1st September you must (need?) only display a rear number plate it does not as usual cattegorically say it's unlawful to continue to display a front VRM after that date. IIRC the law on registration plates does not come from the Road Traffic Act or The Construction & Use Legislation, it comes under The Vehicle Excise Act. (I am a couple of decades out of touch on current law that is enforced by the Police so correct me if wrong)

IIRC the change in legislation for motorcycles was as a result of pedestrians being severely injured at quite low speeds by the way the front number plate was fitted. If you have a front fairing then clearly an adhesive front number plate displayed on either side or if there is room at the front of the fairing is not going to cause any additional injury.

I suspect that if you mounted an old style number plate on the front mudguard post 1st September 2002 you are in effect trying to defeat the object of the change in legislation to reduce injury,  you might commit an offence under the 'Dangerous Parts' legislation for consideration by the CPS. 

If anyone can find a specific  Act & Section that  makes it an offence to display a front number plate of any type on a motor cycle post 1st Sept 2002 I would find that interesting reading.

From your quote, the law states that you cannot use a front number plate if your bike is registered after Sept 2001.
If your bike is registered before then, you can use one, if you want.

It's not that you can't use one after that date, if your bike is registered before then

[Laverda Dave]

Oh, yes that’s really nice. Mines nearly finished in the background 😁😁😁 Visited an Andy Molnar last year to pick up mudguards, brackets, seat and other goodies. How do you rate the commando front brake. Does it have the stiffening kit fitted?

Hmm....front brake.... I bought mine from Unity Equipe when they were still going. A stiffening kit wasn't fitted/available at the time. The brake was terrible, I nearly went into the back of a lorry on the Hanger Lane Gyratory system when I first built the bike in 2001 . When I restored it in 2022 I had the front brake hub skimmed along with the shoes to match and it is much better now.
I bought the T160 Kick start from Reg Allen in Hanwell on the advice of Dave Degans (I built the bike initially in Dave's workshop, he built the engine and modified the frame) Reg Allen is now long gone as is Bill Crosby, a great loss to the Triumph and Norton community. Have you tried L P Williams or Fecked Bike Parts for one?

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I do not read it like that, the must refers to 'you must only display a rear registration mark' separates the requirement from other vehicles that must display the front and rear VRM. The You Gov site is not the actual Act of Parliament but an interpretation of the legislation. When I have time I will look at the Act itself.  Trouble is they often just amend previous acts by substituting the amended words so are often very difficult to navigate.