400f choke lever

[exvalvesetdabbler]

I have been searching around to find images of original carbs to determine the finish on plated items.

For the choke lever

Pictures of push mileage F2 on Ash's drop box
Yellow zinc with CHOKE stamped on the lever

NOS carb set on cmsl. - same as above

All of my old sares same as above

Carb link set on cmsl. Has OPEN stamped with the arrow pointing in the opposite direction with the lever and the associated bits on BZP.

NOS link set purchased around 2008 from DSS
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I would be interested in any observations or insights as to why Honda  would bother making the change or if it was model specific.

Can't help noticing these things and curiosity gets the better of me.

Regards
Dave

 

[AshimotoK0]

I think they were all yellow chromate passivated from the factory ...but if fades with time. Spares were possibly BZP though.

Here are mine that a guy in Hull near me rebuilt for me. He occasionally sells sets on eBay and set them up on his own 400F. He doesn't normally yellow passivate though ... I gave him mine in bits and did them myself in yellow pass. His carb rebuilds are better than Gerbens IMHO ... I know because I already have a set built by Gerben.

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[exvalvesetdabbler]

Doesn't explain the change from Choke to open stamped on the lever.

The image on cmsl is a good restorers reference, so long as it doesn't disappear if they sell them. Certainly explains the black coated star  washer in my bits box that I couldn't figure out where it came from.

I have seen the ones you mention on a well known auction site , they don't look that great.

I'm trying to work around smutt when plating before I go and order in some fresh chemicals.  Seems to affect spring washers as well  as  springs. Just dug out my ancient ultrasonic  from the loft to see it that will shift it otherwise it will be anodic cleaning in alkaline media.

Regards
Dave

[AshimotoK0]

Doesn't explain the change from Choke to open stamped on the lever.

The image on cmsl is a good restorers reference, so long as it doesn't disappear if they sell them. Certainly explains the black coated star  washer in my bits box that I couldn't figure out where it came from.

I have seen the ones you mention on a well known auction site , they don't look that great.

I'm trying to work around smutt when plating before I go and order in some fresh chemicals.  Seems to affect spring washers as well  as  springs. Just dug out my ancient ultrasonic  from the loft to see it that will shift it otherwise it will be anodic cleaning in alkaline media.

Regards
Dave

I looked at the CMS  ones and I would say that someone has cocked up on the arrow direction. The originals were definitely yellow chromate passivated. Maybe the replacement was made BZP in order match a bike that's a few years old, as the plating fades to silver colour after a few years.

I take issue if you are talking about the local guys carbs as I can tell you that they are far superior to the ones Gerben in
Holland ... who is/was the go-to guy on all of these forums for carb rebuilds (inc. top restorer  JamesH on here). My 'Gerben' ones had 1) replated used JIS screws, some of which were a bit knashed, silver painted alloy link bar, unbranded, pattern brassware not Keihin originals etc. The local guys carbs have new screws, polished alloy bar, original Keihin brassware, synced and tested on his own bike. Both charge about the same money (they may be more after shipping/customs etc from Holland in Gerbens case). Neither have the yellow chromate passive zinced parts unfortunately.

It will be interesting for you to 'pick the bones' with the picture on my carbs (they were fitted with brand new Genuine Honda brassware).

You need dilute nitric acid probably 0.5% to de-smut in my experience. APC Pure on line will sell you it but you have to choose a low concentration like 2% otherwise, anything stronger they won't sell to Joe public.

[exvalvesetdabbler]

The carbs I  was referring to was someone in the Netherlands ,  they had cleaned  /rebuilt them but not bothered replating, and claiming new brassware inside

Your set looks top notch. Hope mine turns out like that.

Been reading up on various standards for plating high carbon steel. Smut comes from over pickling an the paper suggest anodic stripping to avoid hydrogen formation and straight into the plating bath.

https://www.scribd.com/document/959060419/ASTM-B-242-99-Standard-Guide-for-Preparation-of-High-Carbon-Steel-for-Electroplating

Regards
Dave

[AshimotoK0]

Nitric worked for me but always interested in other people's findings... the final dip in it is only a few seconds. I found the hardest thing to achieve was the yellow passivate finish particularly with trivalent salts. If you need genuine main and slow standard jets they are mega cheap from Yamiya in Japan but their website is pants at the moment. Maybe Nurse Julie sells them too and at a decent price ... main thing is that Honda still sell them .. which surprised me. They are genuine Honda parts and marked with the Keihin Stampings. I bought a few sets for the guy in Hull as he didn't really charge me real money for my rebuild.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I would be interested in any observations or insights as to why Honda  would bother making the change or if it was model specific.

Can't help noticing these things and curiosity gets the better of me.

Regards
Dave

I have a spare set of 400 carbs that came off an early 400, the one with the rear footrests on the swingarm the lever is marked CHOKE.
My S plated 400 has the same choke lever marked CHOKE with the arrow pointing in the direction to apply the choke.

It strikes me that marking the lever OPEN with an arrow is vague, a choke is usually described as either OFf or ON. Possibly marking a choke as OPEN was a translation error, quickly corrected in production.

Be interesting to know if any members have the lever marked OPEN.

[AshimotoK0]

I remember now when I had  lots of spokes done professionally but stripped and prepped them myself using a method that we used where I once worked for a company who stripped parts to a British Coal provided specification.

I will have read of that ASTM download Dave but this is my old post on the stuff I used to strip spokes.

https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,12925.msg188251.html#msg188251

[Orcade-Ian]

Ted,
My 550, 400 and 350 fours all have chokes marked 'choke'. However, I have a spare set of 350 carbs and I'm on with fettling them at the moment (in between many other jobs). They have the choke marked 'open'. 350 and 400 have the same carbs (different bank number) and obviously different jetting.

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No idea if it was a year change or model change - just another of life's mysteries

Ian