What engine oil

[Craizeehair]

I’m sorry to do this again as I’m sure nobody wants another what oil thread but I have searched and haven’t found anything recent on this. My CB750K0 seemed to have a bit of clutch drag at the end of last season, I do intend to replace the cable and springs as I inherited what’s on the bike and suspect it’s been some time since it was replaced, I found that the clutch was getting very stiff to operate, so that will be my starting point.

I have also tried to do some reading around the correct oil for these bikes / clutches and a mineral oil, 10w40 JASO with zinc if possible seems to cover most bases.

I did find an old post by HondaMan on the subject stating that these bikes should in fact use 20w50 and the 10w40 that was actually listed by Honda was a mistake, does anyone know if this is correct, could he be talking about when using in warmer climates than ours, I am having trouble getting out of this particular rabbit hole.

Any suggestions for a tried and tested oil that suits these bikes and helps with clutch drag would be very much appreciated!

[Yetanotherbike]

I'm not qualified to give you any advice on the correct oil for your bike, obviously there will be people on here who will be, based on knowledge & experience. However I stumbled across this site when I was looking for oil advice for one of my Laverda's. Hope it helps or is of interest to you.
 https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/

[TrickyMicky]

I have no technical qualifications on this subject, only my memories. When I ran a 750 K2 in the 70's I used 20/50 oil. All the comics were singing the praises of the wonderful Duckhams "Q" multigrade, so, in it went.  My personal experience was "What a load of crap".  unless the bike was used on extremely long journeys, every time I took the dipstick out of the tank, the top of it was covered in white frothy sludge. I finished up using Shell Super Multigrade 20/50, and never had any problems at all regardless of type of usage. It also helped that my father worked in a Shell garage, say no more!!!  I carried on using this oil even when I got the 400, but then it changed to becoming Super Helix, also suitable for diesels. I then started using Motul 10/40 mineral oil, and have done ever since.  It's interesting to try to remember that there was life before the multigrade revolution, just over a year ago I did a cosmetic restoration on a 1966 CL160, and cast into the upper crankcase were the oil specifications, winter - straight 30, and summer - straight 40, and still they lasted!!   

[Craizeehair]

Thanks for the input, I think I would normally be less concerned about a specific oil but my main concern is the clutch / gear change. I noticed towards the end of last years riding that the gear changing was quite clunky / grinding when being ridden, I think it was worse when hot?

As a relative beginner to all things related, I tried to research and find the causes and as I came across HondaMans post, stating the very first thing to do is check you have the correct oil and 10w40 was a mistake my Honda, that was enough to start the rabbit hole.

I also found that he states that the clutch assembly diagrams from the Honda fiches in their books are incorrect as well.

Now I’m so confused I don’t know where to start

The clutch itself is very stiff and hard to pull, so that will need some sorting. I hope to get this issue sorted and ready for the years riding but feel a little lost.

Hence the question about the oil from the UK members, just to satisfy myself before moving on to the potential clutch issues.

[TrickyMicky]

Engine oil in gearboxes is not the ideal solution, they perform much better on EP gear oils, that's why the older British bikes with seperate boxes had a superior gearchange, and it's not just us either, my mates in the 70's ran original type BMC Mini's and suffered from the same effects, cold engine:- nice smooth gearchange, but crap when hot.
  Regarding the clutch, 1st place to look is the cable, they are normally routed very close to the hot engine and suffer, I normally replace the cable about every 18 months/2 years, plus check if the handlebar lever is free in its mounting.

[K2-K6]

I have no technical qualifications on this subject, only my memories. When I ran a 750 K2 in the 70's I used 20/50 oil. All the comics were singing the praises of the wonderful Duckhams "Q" multigrade, so, in it went.  My personal experience was "What a load of crap".  unless the bike was used on extremely long journeys, every time I took the dipstick out of the tank, the top of it was covered in white frothy sludge. I finished up using Shell Super Multigrade 20/50, and never had any problems at all regardless of type of usage. It also helped that my father worked in a Shell garage, say no more!!!  I carried on using this oil even when I got the 400, but then it changed to becoming Super Helix, also suitable for diesels. I then started using Motul 10/40 mineral oil, and have done ever since.  It's interesting to try to remember that there was life before the multigrade revolution, just over a year ago I did a cosmetic restoration on a 1966 CL160, and cast into the upper crankcase were the oil specifications, winter - straight 30, and summer - straight 40, and still they lasted!!

That's interesting, as I had exactly the same experience years ago. My dad loved that oil (BMC A&B series motors mostly) and suggested I tried it in my 750 K2, which produced the same result !  Like soap suds in a diswashing session    and always wondered if it was something peculiar, or that I had done.

Second point, I was "reading" crankcases over at DS open day, with some of the little twins stating "20 viscosity winter and 30 for summer use" clearly in the same vane.

Honda do publish data/information panels showing how different viscosity interact with ambient temperature for their engines.

Broadly speaking, these air-cooled engine from that era are true 30 viscosity hot/summer weather (typical UK) the 40 viscosity figure will allow for fuel contamination in service life, along with the oil shearing down below that 40 rating during its use, but still maintain the, hopefully, minimum requirement of target 30 viscosity.

[K2-K6]

Engine oil in gearboxes is not the ideal solution, they perform much better on EP gear oils, that's why the older British bikes with seperate boxes had a superior gearchange, and it's not just us either, my mates in the 70's ran original type BMC Mini's and suffered from the same effects, cold engine:- nice smooth gearchange, but crap when hot.
  Regarding the clutch, 1st place to look is the cable, they are normally routed very close to the hot engine and suffer, I normally replace the cable about every 18 months/2 years, plus check if the handlebar lever is free in its mounting.

I question this view though, as it often comes up on here and out on the great interweb of facts.

These gearbox are nothing like a mini transmission and don't in any way follow any "transposed" logic of operational competence that could help.

The  mini is helical cut and uses synchromesh plus bulk rings which rely on friction to facilitate gear changing, that doesn't exit in straight cut dog gearboxes used in virtually all motorcycle.  There's very different causes of bulking change characteristics in car gearbox design that have no bearing in these Honda transmission.

I can give more detail if needed, that from speaking extensively to a Leyland transmission development engineer that worked on them.

In short, there's no relevance here.

[Priddy]

 There is no end to this topic, regardless of vehicle it seems very much down to preference. I am running a new clutch and Castrol 20/50 Semi Synth and it is still a bit fickle, very grabby clutch and perversely if you 'blip it' on down changes (as I always have) it now crunches gears! considering Morris mineral oil (gold 20/50?) next time following advice from an 'I used to race these motors in a sidecar' bloke!

[Bryanj]

All the years i worked for dealers we used 10w40 which at that time had zinc

[Skoti]

Aye Bryan,

Same here, we always used 10W/40 Castrol, and during winter time 10W/30 Castrolite in Honda stepthru's etc.

Anyone else remember Castrolite oil from the Seventies?

[Craizeehair]

Thanks for the replies all, the reason I’m overthinking it is my gear change has become very crunchy, I’m pretty sure it’s worse as it gets warm, Hondaman definitely recommends 20w50 as first port of call but I’ve also noticed my clutch has become very stiff.

His advice of check the oil first had me thinking if I have the right oil, I guess it’s a process of elimination but just trying to figure out where to start first?

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Aye Bryan,

Same here, we always used 10W/40 Castrol, and during winter time 10W/30 Castrolite in Honda stepthru's etc.

Anyone else remember Castrolite oil from the Seventies?

When I was 15 (1963)  I used to work on a petrol forecourt at weekends, one of my jobs on Sundays was to fill up the 1 pint and 0ne quart Castrol Oil Glass Jars that had a wire clamp lid up to the measure line with either Catsrol L, XL or XXL although the name rings a distant bell I had to Google Castrolite to find it was an early Multigrade oil launched in 1948. I do remember Castrol GTX coming onto the market, at that time the forecourt sold more Duckhams 20/50, the cheaper alternative was either Redex Motor Oil or the locally produced Silkolene Oil that was said to be recycled  oil made in the Belper Refinery.

[Bryanj]

One dealer i worked for used nothing but Silkolene until he got big enough for Castrol to offer him a bulk tank

[SteveD CB500K0]

Watercress Line at Alresford Station.

“If it’s good enough for the Flying Scotsman…”


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