Sodium Ion batteries

[Orcade-Ian]

The battery on our 5 KVA standby generator has never been brilliant and needed charging every month or so.  As a temporary measure I fitted the Motobatt from my 400/4 - a noticeable improvement in speed of starting - it's a Honda GX 270 single engine.  Looking for a replacement - I was quoted £110 plus post and vat.  A friend showed me an article in a bike mag from a company called 'Biker's Toolbox' who had a Sodium Ion battery on test on a big BMW and were very impressed with its performance.  Difficult to believe that it's only a 3AH rating BUT has 300 cold cranking amps as opposed to the original BMW one of 200 CCA.

I ordered one (£51 inc del to Orkney) and it arrived today.  I can't believe how little it weighs!  Under 1Kg.  Fitted to the Genny it flings the thing over faster than the original battery ever did, or  the almost new, fully charged Motobatt.

It would easily fit the 350/400 and 550 fours I have and has dual terminals.

I'll see how things go but apparently they do not suffer the problems associated with lead acid batteries - time will tell but worth a gamble to me!

Ian

[Johnny4428]

That’s great news on the battery front Ian! Interesting to see how it lasts, and unbelievable CCA’s too. Not needing a battery at the moment but will consider ad and when.

[Ken4004]

I am a mobatt convert , I had an issue with my Triumph 1050 sport every time I stopped and the engine was hot it wouldn’t start until it had cooled down and various posts mentioned changing cabling from battery to starter motor and I also stripped  down the starter motor and changing the earthing but the thing that fixed the issue was changing to a Mobatt battery.
With the slightly higher current output it cured my issue for good.
I have subsequently also fitted one to my 400 4 but will be interested to see how you get on with this new battery.
The Mobatt is more expensive but I was spending a fortune on coffees waiting for my bike to cool down

[Orcade-Ian]

Ken,
I can't believe just how good this battery appears to be!  True, at 3AH its not going to be any good if you leave all the lights on with the engine stopped but not many folk do that anyway.  300 CCA can only be drawn for a very short period (on paper 1/100th of an hour but less in practice). How long do we normally hold the starter button for?
As I say, very light in weight and no lead or cadmium - only sea-water as electrolyte.  They will never compete with Lithium Ion batteries for EVs for charge density but seem fine for our usage.
I'll keep it on the Genny for a while (nothing to draw current when off) and then swap to one of the bikes - probably my 550 if all is well.  Seems just too good to be true - bound to have an unforseen drawback but I like testing emerging tech.

Ian

[Bryanj]

Depends how critical the charging current and voltage is, our old style regulators are not good enough for li on so definately not sure about the sodium

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Sodium-ion battery, that's a new one to me.
Developed for electric cars as they are lighter & cheaper than Lithium says Mr Google.

Be interesting to know if the need a special charger?

[neat street]

Very interesting, what information do you have on charging?? can you use a mainting charger during winter? thanks for sharing.

[Orcade-Ian]

To answer Bryan's very valid concern, apparently the info included from the German manufacture outlines that they are very tolerant to variations in charge current but the voltage should be kept below 15v.  No mention of maintenance type chargers though.  They can be left discharged and still pick up as normal, unlike lead acid.  They can also withstand lower temperatures and be rapidly charged.  I am fortunate that I have a stabilised power supply and can vary current and voltage, so will probably use that when needed.  There is also a small button on the top, with 3 blue lights indicating charge level.  As I say, early days yet but so far, very impressed for less than a Motobatt.  Not sure yet if they will produce a whole range to fit different vehicle/applications.

Ted, I think Google may not be correct, the charge density is so small, it would need every EV car to have a lorry load of batteries with it!  For us 2 wheel petrol heads I'm hoping it's a way forward.

Ian

Forgot to add: you can check it out at 'bikerstoolbox' web site and no, I have no connection with them!

[taysidedragon]

Ken,
I can't believe just how good this battery appears to be!  True, at 3AH its not going to be any good if you leave all the lights on with the engine stopped but not many folk do that anyway.  300 CCA can only be drawn for a very short period (on paper 1/100th of an hour but less in practice). How long do we normally hold the starter button for?
As I say, very light in weight and no lead or cadmium - only sea-water as electrolyte.  They will never compete with Lithium Ion batteries for EVs for charge density but seem fine for our usage.
I'll keep it on the Genny for a while (nothing to draw current when off) and then swap to one of the bikes - probably my 550 if all is well.  Seems just too good to be true - bound to have an unforseen drawback but I like testing emerging tech.

Ian

They would probably run out of charge very quickly if a bike was reluctant to start.

[Orcade-Ian]

Yes, you're right Gareth - that would certainly be a problem for a reluctant starting bike but the way it flings this Genny over when compared even with a higher amp-hour Motobatt, encourages me to try it on my 550 next.  I will report back after I've tried it a few times.  Wonder if the much higher CCA would help a bit with reluctant ones - providing all other settings and adjustments are correct of course - it certainly ain't going to cure blocked pilot jets!

Ian

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

www.livescience.com/technology/electric-vehicles/china-puts-a-sodium-ion-battery-into-an-ev-for-the-first-time-it-can-drive-248-miles-on-a-single-charge

[Orcade-Ian]

That's great Ted,
Looks like the Chinese have addressed the original problems of charge density.  Tomorrow, I'm going to bung this new battery on the 550.  I haven't started this bike for about 3 weeks and like Johnny said in another post, my 550 chimes in on one, two, one, four, two again but settles down very quickly to a good 4 cylinder tick-over.  I'm interested to see if any change takes place with the Sodium Ion.  Another thing I will do - assuming all is well, will be to knock the kill switch off and see if I can get a few 10 second bursts to partly address Gareth's concerns - ok, I realise there will be no power drain to the coils but the starter current might be enough.  This is no way to treat a new battery but I have to know its shortcomings!

Ian

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Out of interest for the future is your battery the same dimensions as a 550 or smaller?

[Oddjob]

It’s the same length as the standard 500/550 battery Ian, slightly thinner but quite a bit shorter. The problem I can see will be whether the existing cables will reach. Neg should be ok but will the pos reach?

You could stand it on a block of foam, same for the back, just a thin sheet of foam to make sure the strap holds it securely.

Good find, not heard of these before. Might try one in my VT1100C as it needs a new battery.

[Orcade-Ian]

Hi Ken and Ted,
Yes, the battery is slightly smaller in width and a good bit less in height when compared with the rather tight Motobatt that a lot of us are used to.  As Ken says, some closed cell dense foam (I have quite a few large scraps of that) will bring the terminals to a near original position.  That's my job for this morning and hope it's a winner - it certainly is on the Genny!  It had 3 blue lights when delivered (full charge) and I have not charged it since and will not do until after the 550 test.  As I say, early days yet.

Ian