Cam carrier damage.

[bike-pusher]

Roy, you are a gentleman.

[AshimotoK0]

+1 Roy is a gentleman!

Yes you are right about build down to price. My mates at school used to call my bikes 'Jap crap' because of linish marks in the chrome, unseen areas not polished or blasted finish  and plastic chainguards etc. And in many cases the chroming finish  was crap, hence the massive dealer warranty replacement programme they had for exhausts. But the one thing they did do right was double skinning the header pipes. Every 60's 70's Triumph I have seen has bluing on the header pipes. Plus they did not skimp on electrics. I reckon the build quality on the 70's Honda's was 1st rate. I suppose it's what we call value engineering these days. The other thing they seemed to get right was the metallurgy on engine parts as Mr. Honda was a qualified metallurgist.

 Here's one for you Neil .. my collector box on the 400/4 I bought new from a Honda dealer had silver paint on some of  the joints. Are the NOS ones you sold like that? Also the silencer has the HONDA stamping and HM377 on it but also SANKEI who I presume made it. Don't remember SANKEI on any of the originals I owned.

Cheers .. AshD

Whey hey another 13 posts and I reach the magic 1k!

[bike-pusher]

I've seen NOS with and without the silver paint.  Ditto the Sankei logo.  So at some point they started or stopped painting, and ditto the Sankei stamp, but I don't know when it was.

The as-new collector box I sold recently didn't have the silver paint, but I don't know when it was made.

[K2-K6]

If you own a "leaky" bike and the oil is changed for example at 6000 intervals lets say, you may not even be changing the oil that went in at the last change.....if you you get my drift.

[AshimotoK0]

Got this below back from Rick Parkington of Classic Bike Magazine regarding the cam bearing shells fitted to the CB400F project bike they are building. Interesting stuff !!

Cheers ... AshD

-------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ash,  Received your message to David Silver via a rather circuitous route! Afraid I can't offer much more information at present  largely because the engine is sitting inverted on its head while I  assemble the bottom end! I will by all means take a closer look when it's right way up again. Since the cam cover has no shells fitted, the cam diameter must still be standard and that means that if these are Kawasaki shells, it must be a model whose cam is the same diameter as a 400/4. My issue was that as a machining job it isn't one I'd like to undertake because the head design prevents starting from one end and boring straight through; it would be tricky to get right starting with an already worn head and it wouldn't have to be far out to seize. I'm guessing there's more slack on the fit than there was on the DOHC motors where the cam caps were not avaailable separately and disaster followed mixing them up... The cam cover is away for chrome stripping and polishing just now but I'm looking forward to plastigauging the fit of the cam when it returns. I can see it would be a big help to SOHC owners to find out how this was done (in my bike shop days I used to have a black museum of gruesome SOHC Honda cams!) but I have a feeling finding the shells may only be half the answer, it's a pity it looks like it was done before my mate bought the bike Cheers Rick

Hi Ash,
OK got bit more info now. The bearing shells in the head are not Z1. I popped one out and the number on the back is G (in a square) S8919M. The stamping looked similar to that on Triumph shells, so assuming it was a Glacier bearing I tried Googling the number but no result.Giving up on the Internet I did what I should have done first and checked my 1968 Glacier catalogue. Turns out they are from a Villiers industrial engine. The set number was B 1042 S and the engine is a Villiers Mk12 1.5hp, 120cc. The shells in the head are minus tens; turns out the Villiers standard shaft diameter is 0.874", I measured the cam at 0.864", so using -0.010" shells will make the fit right for the Honda cam. I suspect these bearings will be hard to obtain now but you never know.Speaking to someone yesterday who reckoned that back in the day Dixon Racing used to do cylinder head bushing operations, thy supplied the Yoshi parts so that would make sense.Thanks for the invite to the forum; not sure I'd have much to contribute, I'm afraid this is the first four I've laid a spanner on. Work aside I avoid the computer - too much to do in the shed. I actually started a blog this year (www.rickparkington.co.uk) and am having trouble finding the time even to do that! But feel free to use this info and pics. Hope it proves helpful.
All the best Rick P
[ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[AshimotoK0]

What do you think Bryan. Do you remember Dixon Racing doing this kind of conversion?

This looks like a possible source BTW

http://vintagemotorcyclepistons.co.uk/page/5

Cheers ... Ash

[bike-pusher]

If you're really unlucky it's a Jock Kerr job - actually, he used roller bearings IIRC, and obviously on the ends of the cams only.

Joy Engineering used to do this sort of thing, I think.

[AshimotoK0]

If you're really unlucky it's a Jock Kerr job - actually, he used roller bearings IIRC, and obviously on the ends of the cams only.

Joy Engineering used to do this sort of thing, I think.

Looks like it's fairly well done from the photos Rick sent so probably more like Joy than Jock Kerr !

Interesting though because sooner or later there will be a shortage of decent 400/4 heads 'cos everyone seems to be restoring them. Suppose the 350F head may fit though but not sure about it, as they are plentiful in the US.

Cheers ... AshD

[bike-pusher]

Some 15 years ago I was offered six brand new OE CB400F heads for a grand.  Saw if I could flog them to DS first - he offered me something like £50 each.  Turned them down, figuring it would take me years to get the investment back...

[philward]

I had a Phil Read Rep back in the late 80s and rebuilt it. Worked as a aircraft fitter and got the lads in the machine shop to line bore the carriers and they made dome phosphor bronze (I think) shells - cant remember the detail but shows its do-able. I done a few thousand mile without any problems before I sold it
Phil