Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: Charliecharlcomb on September 07, 2016, 10:57:25 AM
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I've owned a 500/4 in various guises since 1978. I think I'm on my 5th version now. In the past I've had to sell my bike for various reasons and missed it terribly so went out and bought another one. It has always been a CB500. They are like an armchair to me and I never tire of its beauty and the ride it gives me. The version I currently have is very special to me. I've owned it since 1991, its been rebuilt it to a very high standard (I used to be a Honda mechanic) and thanks to an amazing stroke of luck many years ago, acquired a garage full of original factory spares in their wrappers which I used to replace as much as I could. It's registered March 1976 but engine and frame numbers point to a 1973 K2 engine in a 1972 K1 frame. The K2 engine has the mods to the rocker spindles that I saw so many failures of the earlier version in my mechanicing days.
My dilemma is next year I plan to go travelling for 2-5 years. I could mothball the bike but am currently taking a pragmatic view on my possessions and the bike is causing me a real headache.
Can I ask the group what they think it would be worth? Where would be a good place to sell it? Or should I keep it? Is the model appreciating in value significantly? The CB500 always gets overshadowed by (in my opinion) the all too common and not very exciting 400/4. Mine always turns heads and draws a crowd when I park it. It's a wonderful machine.
My actual bike has done 8,500 miles since the total rebuild, is MOT'd, was featured on the cover of VJMCC magazine in Sept-Oct 1996 and was runner up Best Classic bike at the Festival of 1,000 bikes at Brands Hatch in 1992. It's not quite as shiny as it was back then and has a couple of minor blemishes which you would expect for a bike that is 40 years old. I've also got a stack of receipts accumulated over the years.
I'm talking myself out of it already. I'd be interested to hear what you think? I've attached some photos.
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Well, I was gonna offer you 10k for your CB500 but, as you have probably upset most CB400/4 owners on this forum, including myself, I'm not going to offer you diddly squat ;D ;D ;D ;D
Uninspiring, I think not.
[attach=1]
I was fortunate enough to sell the most expensive CB500 four ever, which yours, IMHO is totally uninspiring compared to that one.
[attach=2]
Good luck with your quest
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I should have added, serious replies only please.
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I am being very serious
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Bit mean Julie ..did Trigger burn your toast this morning ;D ;D
I love both bikes . I always wanted a 500/4 when I was a student but beyond my reach. By the time 1977 came and I could afford one they were onto the later 550 and so I got a 400/4 instead. Before I owned the 1st 400 I bought I never really likes the look of it c/w the 500/4 but these things grow on you and I have a fondness for both models (over the 750K0 in fact). Have (some in 1 million bit) all three models now , all three of them vying for my attention, just like my three grown up kids.
Ask JamesH about the value as he has owned quite a few minters. My advice ...if you need the cash sell it, if you don't then carefully mothball it, as you will probably regret it in the long run and 'like you say, it is undervalued at the mo (as is the 400/4 IMHO c/w CB750's). Whatever you do, keep posting on here. As a mechanic from the old days your input it extremelely valuable ( well to me anyhoo)
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Thank you for your thoughts, something to think about. Maybe I need to spend more time getting used to the characters that lurk on this site but it's easy to be put off. And I posted deliberately on what I thought was the CB500/550 forum so I'm not looking to have a 400/4 - 500 debate.
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Bit mean Julie ..did Trigger burn your toast this morning ;D ;D
No Ash, he didn't burn the toast today ::) ::) ::) ::).
Graham is teaching me how to hone bores out with a golf ball wrapped in coarse grit sand paper ;D ;D ;D
Now, where did I put the barrels you dropped off the other day Ash, yours is next now I have the knack ;D ;D ;D
And I agree with you Ash, Charlie please keep posting
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Bit mean Julie ..did Trigger burn your toast this morning ;D ;D
No Ash, he didn't burn the toast today ::) ::) ::) ::).
Graham is teaching me how to hone bores out with a golf ball wrapped in coarse grit sand paper ;D ;D ;D
Now, where did I put the barrels you dropped off the other day Ash, yours is next now I have the knack ;D ;D ;D
And I agree with you Ash, Charlie please keep posting
Ha Ha in good hands then Julie ;D.. Just joined the vintage radio forum after Cathy lumbered that old Deryshire 'car boot' special 1938 radio on me to get working ... more obsession and anorak behaviour on my part I fear :-[
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Don't be put off with a little banter ;D Shame that it has a K2 engine, what happened to the original engine or was is changed before it came in to your hands ?
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I agree with Ash, on two counts.
I always liked the look of the 500, then the 400/4 came along. I didn't get one of those either in the day, but have one now.
As for keeping the bike, if you don't need the cash and can lay it up properly then I'd keep it.
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I swapped the engine with a K2 that I also had that wasn't as good overall. As I mentioned, there are some internal mods to the K2 which made it a better long term option for me.
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Bit mean Julie ..did Trigger burn your toast this morning ;D ;D
No Ash, he didn't burn the toast today ::) ::) ::) ::).
Graham is teaching me how to hone bores out with a golf ball wrapped in coarse grit sand paper ;D ;D ;D
Now, where did I put the barrels you dropped off the other day Ash, yours is next now I have the knack ;D ;D ;D
And I agree with you Ash, Charlie please keep posting
Ha Ha in good hands then Julie ;D.. Just joined the vintage radio forum after Cathy lumbered that old Deryshire 'car boot' special 1938 radio on me to get working ... more obsession and anorak behaviour on my part I fear :-[
Gosh, I bet the Vintage Radio forum are fun people to know Ash. Is there more activity on the radio forum than the Sandcast Forum? ;D ;D ;D
Can't you just hide a modern radio with DAB in the back and attach it to the knob at the front, Cathy will never know.
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As Kenneth Horn once said on Round the Horn, 'There's nothing I like better then going home at night and twiddling the knob on my bakerlite Bush!'
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Are you talking dirty now? ;D ;D ;D Was it not Kenneth Williams?
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Charlie, Do all you can to keep the bike if possible. This forum is probably full of people who sold their bikes for whatever reason and lived to regret it a few years later. I had a CB160, a CB200, a Matchless 250CSR (stop laughing at the back) and two 400/4's and sold them all but wish I still them. I have a CR750 Rickman Honda that has not been started for at least 12 years, I should have sold it but glad I didn't as it's the next restoration.
My advice, unless you really, really have to sell it, keep it.
Dave
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Joking aside, it would be a shame to sell it really. You are obviously attached to it and I'm sure it would be nice feeling to return from your travels knowing she was there waiting for you.
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Charlie,
The fact that you asked the members for their thoughts on the subject is I suspect pretty strong evidence that your heart is telling you to keep it.
Always follow your heart in matters of Motorcycles would be my advice. Heads are boring and make us do things like buying cars and join the National Trust cos' it has great deals on short bread and whale music (Ho ho).
A couple of years ago I decided that I had to get rid of one of my bikes, the modern one or the CB500. I decided to sell the CB500, so began to prepare it for sale. After about 10 minutes working on it I realised that there was no way on earth I was ever going to sell it; not after 31 years. Nothing else in my life has lasted 31 years and I know every nut and bolt of my bike. So if you can afford to lay it up lay it up and have a good trip.
If however you decide you have to sell, let me know and I'll bust it for spares ................................................... JOKE everyone just a JOKE!
Rob
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I run a old bike sanctuary for bikes that their owners no longer want. I can give your bike a good home :)
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From past experience KEEP IT!
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I have a cb500 that I have done many miles on. I had a cb550 before that. I had little compunction about parting the cb550 out for spares, the cb500 however, just so right, lovely bikes, if you have a good one, mothball it, hold onto it, like it is the last thing you will sell. They are great little bikes I never had a go on a cb400/4, but I think I would find it revvy or underpowered as the cb500 is so just right. I had a 50 mile jaunt on a cb750 that wad near mint condition once, it was a bit big and heavy for me. My advice is either mothball it or use it for your travelling. Mine did 6 years or so as my only transport - maybe more, wasn't counting really, in any case I took it round the clock one or 2 times, replaced a fair few bits including the clocks as they wore out. It saw its share of snow and winter commuting but by gosh I loved it all the more as it soldiered on gaining a few blemishes, ok value wise it took a hammering, but as I edge to finishing a budgett rebuild I would never try to erase that wear other than the mechanical repairs. If you sell, you will regret it, travel on the bike, the bond will grow and any wear will carry its own story. Or carefully mothball it.
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Well Charlie I find myself in total agreement with you. Must be the ex mechanic thing going on. Never really liked the 750, it was ok I suppose but the way it engaged first gear always put me off, huge clunk at the traffic lights and people looking at you like it's your fault. Funnily enough my CB1300 does exactly the same thing and I don't like it for that either but I forgive it as the rest of the bike is just great. As for the 400, never floated my boat either, too small, too revvy but it handled ok but not as good IMO as the 500 which really is like sitting in an armchair and has been described like that for many years. Funnily enough the 550 never really appealed either, maybe it's the 4 into 1 thing that put me off, certain things I liked about it though and I've owned more than a few so they must have something going for them that I like.
As for sell it or keep it, I'm in the same predicament, my heart just won't let me sell mine even though it's been in storage for years, my brain says it will never be put back on the road so might as well get some of the money I spend on it back. My hearts winning at the moment and I suspect yours will to, if you sell it you'll really miss it later, you may buy another when you return but it won't be the same IMO, the labour of love of creating your bike means there is a bond between you that is hard to break, store it carefully and you won't be disappointed when you ride it the first time when your back.
There must be something with the 500 Four and ex Honda staff. I know two ex Honda mechanics in Germany, three in Italy, one in Spain, four in France and three in the UK that all still have there 500 Four. Must be something in the water mate ;)
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As you know Trigger i wasn't Honda staff but as i have said on here before i just loved my 500 back ib the 70's
and when i got the 550 although i traveled Europe on it some how it didn.t have the grab of the 500.
I will get another sooner than later, probably chop the UK K2 750 if the right one comes along.
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I can see where Charlie (are you actually called Charlie?) and Oddjob are coming from. Evidently my 750K0 was one of two, from the very 1st UK batch of 750's, that were sold from Alan Mountains shop in York on the same day in 1970. He was one of the very 1st Honda dealers in the UK and used to sell shed loads of little Honda's to the factory workers in York, so much so that, for several years, he won the Honda prize, all expenses paid, factory visit to Japan, which is probably how he got his mits on two of the first 20 bikes. Anyway the guy who initially bought my K0 ordered it with full touring gear fitted to it but, after a couple of weeks of ownership, found that it was too big and unwieldy so he traded it back for a smaller machine and the guy who gave us the info on it bought it a couple of weeks after 1st registration. This is why I like original UK bikes BTW ..plenty of history if you dig deep enough.
However, there must be someone on here who bought an early 750 that tells a different tale. I do remember when the 500 was 1st sold in the UK that it was a real match for the 750.
Having stripped both bikes (and several 400/4's) , the 500 seems a lot more advanced engineering wise, with it's Hyvo primary chain and replaceable primary drive dampers. Only real shame is that on the 750 you have replaceable cam tower bearings whereas on the 500/400 fours the cam bears directly on the head/cam cover. Also the 750 has to be an absolute marvel of engineering considering the timescale from conception to market, which was about a year I believe.
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As you know Trigger i wasn't Honda staff but as i have said on here before i just loved my 500 back ib the 70's
and when i got the 550 although i traveled Europe on it some how it didn.t have the grab of the 500.
I will get another sooner than later, probably chop the UK K2 750 if the right one comes along.
Shame on you Rich ..turning a beauty of a 750K2 into a chopper ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Depends if you think you might buy another in the future. Prices keep going up and you might be kicking yourself in the future if you've got to pay a lot more than what you'll get for yours now. I'd keep it and lather it in grease.
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Your not alone with the first gear clunk on the CB1300 OddJob, mine does it big time as well (bloody annoying sometimes). Had a look at getting the map off the Power Commander and decided that (unless you really really need it) I will just leave it alone as its all working perfectly and I have no idea what I'm doing with it. My luck with computer things it would crash during the process and wreck everything, and I don't have a backup. Back to subject, KEEP THE 500 YOU KNOW YOU LOVE IT!!!!
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Hi Charlie,
If I had room in my garage, which I don't, I would offer to look after it for you so that it had an occasional run out whilst you're travelling. Better than greasing and ignoring in my humble opinion.
Maybe someone on this forum can offer just such a mutually agreeable service to you?
Just a thought,
D.
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Charlie, nobody's had a stab at a price yet but first question is, do you need the money and do you have a suitable space to store the bike long term? My own guess is that at the moment if it was really good I'd pay £5k from a dealer and £4k private but it depends on how long you have to sell? Your engine and frame are mismatched and anoraks would go into hyperventilation mode over that.
If I was going away for an unspecified period I wouldn't even think about keeping it, it isn't likely to appreciate significantly and you'll easily be able to buy one when you return. They aren't quite established classics yet (but they are a much underestimated bike) and there is no shortage to drive the price up so few buyers would pay a premium just now. Unfortunately most buyers who want to buy the bike of their youth tend to look for 750's.
What would I do? Without doubt I'd sell it and either spend the money on your travelling to get full benefit or invest the money in a good ISA. Storing bikes isn't always kind to them but no problem for you as a mechanic of course. My point is, cash in your pocket for you to use or invest as you see fit is probably economically more sensible than a bike under a cover unless you have a strong emotional attachment or unless it is likely to appreciate significantly in your absence which is unlikely.
I'm always on the lookout for that special one (I love them) but I stupidly took on a very difficult restoration of a special with a CB500 engine and am in hold mode until I can finish it.
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Some great thoughts, thanks everyone. I took it out for a ride yesterday and of course it was wonderful. Almost all of you have said the same thing but the very last post by masonmart has made me think hard. As I first said, a dilemma!
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Hmm, a dilemma indeed.
Let's assume that as you have posed the question you have somewhere you could store the bike, and with your mechanicing skills you are well placed to know how best to prepare the bike for storage (although I'm sure folks on here could give tips on what they would do if it came to that).
In your opening post you said that although you had had several 500's your current bike is very special to you as you have owned it since 1991 and it has been rebuilt to a very high standard as well as having had the various mods done to improve reliability. Yes, you could sell it and if you so desire buy another at the end of your travels, but would you a) manage to get what it is worth to you, and b) manage to find anything similar when you came to buy another. It sounds as if you know every nut and bolt on this bike whereas it is likely that any subsequent bike you bought would be something of an unknown quantity and you wouldn't be entirely sure what was inside the engine cases or anywhere else.
I don't envy you having to make the decision but I have seen what the majority vote so far is. Please keep us posted!
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PM sent with an idea.
Rich
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No Rich, you cannot use it to bomb around the fields and woods at your place whilst Charlie is away on his travels ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Keep it! It's taken me 40 years to get another one and the process of rebuilding it is pure pleaser wish I'd never got rid of my first 500/4 biggest mistake of my motoring life!
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Charlie, all enthusiasts will tell you to keep it and that is a good recommendation if you have both excess funds for travelling and storage space for the bike so that the impact of not selling is low. Any economist would tell you to sell for real cash now and buy again when you return when your needs are well defined. As you're going travelling, the money may give you pleasure in excess of what a stored bike will give you and this is important.
What I see is that these good bikes aren't real investor grade yet, CB750's are definitely increasing in value again and CB400's are flavour of the month. CB500/550's don't really seem to fetch the premium that they deserve over the 400's or justify the discount they suffer over the 750's. If you can get a reasonable price now I would sell, should you want to buy when you return then there is likely to be no shortage. The key thing is not to have irrational expectations of what the bike is worth, they aren't Vincent Black Shadows.
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Again, very wise words from Masonmart, thank you.
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Charlie, all enthusiasts will tell you to keep it and that is a good recommendation if you have both excess funds for travelling and storage space for the bike so that the impact of not selling is low. Any economist would tell you to sell for real cash now and buy again when you return when your needs are well defined. As you're going travelling, the money may give you pleasure in excess of what a stored bike will give you and this is important.
What I see is that these good bikes aren't real investor grade yet, CB750's are definitely increasing in value again and CB400's are flavour of the month. CB500/550's don't really seem to fetch the premium that they deserve over the 400's or justify the discount they suffer over the 750's. If you can get a reasonable price now I would sell, should you want to buy when you return then there is likely to be no shortage. The key thing is not to have irrational expectations of what the bike is worth, they aren't Vincent Black Shadows.
I disagree with what you have stated. I have owned and restored every SOHC and the most difficult to find parts for is the UK, 500 and 550. New parts for the 400 are cheap compared to the 750's and this is why you will always find them in good condition.
It was not that long ago that Black Shadows were sitting in sheds/garages going rusty, not worth much. I have always found a bike jumps in price once it is 25 years old and will jump again one it hits 50
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Trigger, the problem is that there is no shortage of good 400's, 500/550's and 750's and many of the subsequent offerings of the decade from, e.g., Kawasaki were arguably better bikes (like the Z1's). When you then look at the flood of imports from the USA there's no driver for significant price increases. I sold an immaculate K6 750 for £5500 about 18 months ago and a superb 400 with 5k miles on for £3500. I have a CB450 and CB77 and these have really shot up but they are iconic, very rare now and older than the 500's. It is also far more difficult to get spares for these than the 500's so I think that the 500's are possibly at least 10 years off following the 60's bikes. The 2 Honda 4's were my only "misses" so I'd say if you have 15 years then buying a CB500 will yield returns and enjoyable riding but if you're looking at just the next few years as Charlie is then I'd say that they will be as plentiful and low cost then as now. If they were a real investment buy I'd have one already :) The economics of keeping a bike that isn't in short supply and increasing in price are poor unless you have other reasons. I'd expect at least 10%/year tax free on the money in an ISA and that's what I'd recommend Charlie do or that he just blows it enjoying his travels. Don't get me wrong, I really love the bikes but not as a collectable yet, I want one as the perfect road bike for an old boy like me that is unlikely to depreciate (the bike not me).
My advice to Charlie is only as a collector and investor rather than as a CB500 connoisseur. It is what I would do if I were in the same position. No wish to argue of course, I just try to look at things logically.
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Are you talking about UK or USA units ? There is a big demand for UK, 500's, 550 F1 & F2 and also 750K's. I have sold a CB500K0 UK unit at £9250, A CB750K2 1972 UK unit at £15500 and a CB750K1 UK unit at £17500 in the past year. I do not deal with USA units because the market is flooded with them.
So please show me all these good UK units for sale? Because I have a book of customers wanting.
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Forget the bikes, I would love to know what ISA's are paying 10% per annum, cos mine sure as hell aren't. 😅😅😅
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I am with you on all of the imports flooding the market but it really depends what you are in it for. To me, those imports are bringing young people into ownership by making good examples affordable and getting them hooked on these iconic designs, which can't be a bad thing. Those imports are also bringing decent condition rot-free parts to the market to enhance the 'real' rising classics, which have always been and always will be in my view , genuine UK sold bikes. If it was available here, I always go for the UK model. I disagree on CB77's and CB450's rising in value to any great degree over the fours. Those bikes are also flooding the market too, with the exception of the 450K0 bomber. I saw an exceptionally tidy CB77 go for less than £1.5k sold by DK about a year or so ago. I still think the 500 will rise to greatness over the following years to come and is still undervalued and my great love the 68/69 only CB250 SS (K0) is never going to flood the market as they were never sold in the USA and is a model very rare in immaculate condition. The 400/4 is exceptional in that, I believe, people just couldn't bear to chuck them away and held onto them so there are so many nice restored / original examples around that they are never going to command really high prices. I still stand by my original advice that if you are not desperate for the money, then keep the bike or you may live to regret it.
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Are you talking about UK or USA units ? There is a big demand for UK, 500's, 550 F1 & F2 and also 750K's. I have sold a CB500K0 UK unit at £9250, A CB750K2 1972 UK unit at £15500 and a CB750K1 UK unit at £17500 in the past year. I do not deal with USA units because the market is flooded with them.
So please show me all these good UK units for sale? Because I have a book of customers wanting.
Your telling porkies there Trigg ... Julie's charm sold it ! ;D ;D ;D ;D (500K0) ;D
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I'd rather use them and enjoy, but as investments go my cb500's have kicked my Isa into the long grass over the last decade, I'm used to paying well under £500 delivered for my bikes, but put on ebay. I reacon most would come in at not far off a grand based on what some pretty rough examples get there, thats without doing any more than assembling them. Best bit of that for me, I only bought as a stock of spares for my daily rider. Chatting to a friend / customer about bikes, he had a mate who went travelling on some old brit iron, back in the day, rode right accross to India, sold the bike to a shop whilst he went on to Australia and New Zeland ( inport too costly ) and then on return route, bought the same bike back 2 years later, rode back to London on that same bike. I wonder how many tankfulls of fuel that would add up to? Sounds like quite the adventure. Looking at 500/4 values since I bought my first ones, well, I reacon they are about 4 times what they were, and steadily going up as a trend, slowly but steadily. Bits used to be cheaper too. I still have boxes of Nos stuff bought off silvers on the basis that a bike used reguarly will need it eventually, even basic bits like primary chain and tensioners are double what I paid I think. Sell and you may regret it.
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Are you talking about UK or USA units ? There is a big demand for UK, 500's, 550 F1 & F2 and also 750K's. I have sold a CB500K0 UK unit at £9250, A CB750K2 1972 UK unit at £15500 and a CB750K1 UK unit at £17500 in the past year. I do not deal with USA units because the market is flooded with them.
So please show me all these good UK units for sale? Because I have a book of customers wanting.
Your telling porkies there Trigg ... Julie's charm sold it ! ;D ;D ;D ;D (500K0) ;D
Yes Ash, probably but as I was wearing my Nurses uniform when I sold it, I think that clinched the sale ::) ::) ::).
As I have said before, the right bike in the right condition will always sell, maybe not quickly but there is always someone out there looking for that 'something extraordinary' who will pay top money.
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I hope you're right about that. My Katana is on abay at the mo with about 10 hours to go. There's only 1 bid and that's off a dealer, 78 watchers though.
Nice day for a blatt round the Vale of Glamorgan, pics later.
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Forget the bikes, I would love to know what ISA's are paying 10% per annum, cos mine sure as hell aren't. 😅😅😅
Julie, I have maybe 20 ISAs and they've done really well even better than my Classics but I can't ride an ISA.
Trig, I've also bought a CB77 for £1500 but I sold my last one for £8000. Mind you, as always with classics I'd probably spent £12k on it :)
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Are you talking about UK or USA units ? There is a big demand for UK, 500's, 550 F1 & F2 and also 750K's. I have sold a CB500K0 UK unit at £9250, A CB750K2 1972 UK unit at £15500 and a CB750K1 UK unit at £17500 in the past year. I do not deal with USA units because the market is flooded with them.
So please show me all these good UK units for sale? Because I have a book of customers wanting.
I have a UK CB92 CB72 and CB500 K0 for sale.
Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
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Are you talking about UK or USA units ? There is a big demand for UK, 500's, 550 F1 & F2 and also 750K's. I have sold a CB500K0 UK unit at £9250, A CB750K2 1972 UK unit at £15500 and a CB750K1 UK unit at £17500 in the past year. I do not deal with USA units because the market is flooded with them.
So please show me all these good UK units for sale? Because I have a book of customers wanting.
I have a UK CB92 CB72 and CB500 K0 for sale.
Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Welcome, this is a great site ... why not do an introduction of yourself?
CB92 iconic bike ..beyond my scope at the moment (too frustrating trying to locate magnesium hubs ete etc) but some pictures would be nice?
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Why are the later 550's like 1978 F2? selling so cheap when in apparently great condition compared with earlier bikes? Is it the single silencer?
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I had a k3, technically better than the 500, but, the 550 was just a bit less special, the fuel filler cap was a bit less attractive, the riding position was just less right, a bit like my favourite old bike jacket, and the other 2 that I tried to replace it with, somehow a host of small differences add up to that being the right bike. I don't think it is the exhausts because I never had the proper system on the 500. That and possibly the investment crowd buying early versions because the trend is for earlier vehicles being worth more, a kind of self fulfiling policy. It is the same now with old Landrovers, ours is a fairly rare example sporting its original 2.0d engine, 10 years ago I was advised it was skip fodder, now they are sought after despite being well down on power ( like 50mph top speed when every othr variant could top 60) crazy world where the value is only real because it is percived as valuable by other investors.
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What a great set of responses, thanks everyone! I think that unless it would fetch around £5k it isn't worth selling and besides my son has expressed a great interest in taking it on one day so for now I am going to hang onto it. The clincher this morning was seeing a nice 400/4 ride by and thinking, more people should be seeing a nice 500/4 out on the roads instead.