Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: B11sey on February 01, 2023, 03:11:16 PM
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I’ve owned my bike since 1978 and always thought it to be a standard early UK bike until I recently started renovating it. Now it appears many things are not correct.
Frame number 1015211 identifies it as a US only K0 ??
All black colour is UK only spec??
Number plate mount is UK version
Tank pinstripe is non std red and chrome
First registration Aug ‘72
Any experts out there who would know which country this would have been originally shipped to
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You cant tell what country from the number, there were a few K0 in this country that dealers brought in from europe, the tank has obviously been resprayed if the stripe is red so that means nothing.
Put up some pics of the handlebar switches, fork reflectors, seat lock and general bike and i can give you some ideas
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Hope this link works
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AuMd9kuz1FdHD4CU7
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Yep, that's a K0.
Be aware that when the 3 test ride bikes were shipped in by Honda (I found the reg number of the Gold one the other day, GTT 131K, it's no longer registered BTW) the bike magazines were very critical of the right hand switchgear, they found it was far too easy for the rider (especially wearing gloves) to accidentally turn the lights off completely when going form high to low, resulting in total darkness and lets be honest, if you've got main beam on you're somewhere bloody dark. As a result Honda changed that switchgear and fitted a separate On/Off switch on the other side of the bars. You may want to keep the switchgear as it is original but if so watch what you're doing when you use it.
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Definately K0 reflectors and seat lock, UK switches and it looks like somebody painted the space between the two white stipes in red.
Look at the block connectors under the lh sidepanel and see if they have round pin or spade type, that would date it a little bit
You could have a proper UK K0, it might be worth paying Honda the about £30 for a proof of date of build letter
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My list puts it about 5th month 1971
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First reg Aug 72 Bryan, most likely brought from Europe to complete an order as the K1 might have been all sold out at that time. My K1 is registered earlier than that. August would have been new reg day so dealer might have oversold and have shipped one in in desperation.
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Nice original looking Horn - when was it last a runner?
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That 5th month is build so august reg would be about right with shipping, fotget that its 15 months so probably old stock in europe brought into uk by dealer
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Definately K0 reflectors and seat lock, UK switches and it looks like somebody painted the space between the two white stipes in red.
The “white†stripes are actually chrome/silver and is a vinyl graphic not paint. Although not too difficult to produce 1 off’s with todays tech I’m not sure how this would be done in early 70’s.
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Last run in ‘87 Ted
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I think the engine number dates it before the gearbox mods. Was wondering if Honda stopped shipping to the USA after the lawsuit and send the remaining pre-mod bikes to the UK? No evidence for this but it may explain the anomalies.
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No, the K0 never officially came to the UK, they'd have shipped them to Europe instead, which is where yours has come from I reckon.
According to the head mechanic at Honda, who I asked about the 500 when at a training course in the late 70s approx only 3 were officially imported by HondaUK, these were gold, black and brown. One was written off whilst being test ridden by a magazine, the general consensus was it was the black one IIRC, the gold disappeared and the brown was sold to an employee who later scrapped it.
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So probably a European bike that had the tank re-sprayed to suit its first owner I guess.
Is there anything to differentiate European and UK bikes?
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This is what it should look like.
[attachimg=1]
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If you contact Honda UK and give them all the details, they will tell you what Honda dealer in the UK they suppled the bike to and the date .
Imported 500K0,s never came with that type of right hand switch gear, only the UK
Link >> http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,27955.0.html
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Actually only the US got a different right hand switchgear on the K0, the European countries got the same as the UK one, it's in the parts book.
The only difference I can think of off the top of my head that some European countries got was a slightly different airbox, which had a snorkel fitted over the top of the airbox. To suit this snorkel the carbs were changed so it ran with smaller jets, not 100% sure but Germany and maybe Holland comes to mind.
Check the carb body on No4 cylinder, on the flange will be a number stamped into the body, 623B is the standard carb for a 500, if that's different then it's a definite Euro bike.
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Don't believe the parts book as there are many mistakes, look at the wiring diagram for the different switches between the 500K0 UK and europe ;)
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Great looking bike. I’ll be pleased if mine ends up half as good as that.
Impressively tidy workshop as well :)
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All the US bikes had a vin plate up front. I only see the Made in Japan, so that would make it almost certainly Europe. Anyone know why Europe got K0s, but UK got next to none.
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Great looking bike. I’ll be pleased if mine ends up half as good as that.
Impressively tidy workshop as well :)
Yours look completely original apart from the tank and side panel paint. Nice to see the original master cylinder cap and the chrome bolts on the master cylinder clamp.
I have owned two of these in the past 10 years and once restored correctly to original spec, make good money at resale time.
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All the US bikes had a vin plate up front. I only see the Made in Japan, so that would make it almost certainly Europe. Anyone know why Europe got K0s, but UK got next to none.
Could be something as simple as supply. Maybe Honda knew it couldn't supply both Europe and the USA as well as the UK. As the smallest market would have been the UK we were left out. As it turns out that wasn't to our detriment as the K0 had quite a few problems that have been well documented. The seat lock was a step backwards, the K1 lock is far superior. The reflectors are better bigger as well. Not to mention the switchgear which was slated so much by the press that Honda had to change it for safety reasons. The only thing that the K0 got right IMO was the gold colour, Starlight Gold is nicer IMO than the Candy Gold custom of the K1. No idea why they changed that, maybe they thought it looked better with bigger metallic flakes. What I'd like to know is who made the decision not to import the Candy Jade Green model, far better than the awful brown model, again my opinion.
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I had a new 500K1 in 1972 (bought from Queens Park Motors) but can't remember the combined horn/pass button on the LH switch - it is a long time ago but remember being chuffed to have the flash button on later bikes I bought after the 500 was sold.
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Standard on UK models Phil, USA didn't get it though, just a horn button for them.
Looking at the pics it looks like it might be an expensive restoration if all the chrome doesn't clean up well. Certainly very dirty, lets hope it's ok under the muck.
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You’re right Oddjob. All the brightwork needs re-chrome or replacing. Luckily I bought a new set of pipes 30yrs ago which will save a lot.
However I’m not doing this for a profit but to relive some of the memories of the riding we did back in the day.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GYFFBn9hnBEzJmyW8
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You’re right Oddjob. All the brightwork needs re-chrome or replacing. Luckily I bought a new set of pipes 30yrs ago which will save a lot.
However I’m not doing this for a profit but to relive some of the memories of the riding we did back in the day.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GYFFBn9hnBEzJmyW8
Sounds like a great basis for resto. of a rare variant of the 500, particularly as you had the fore-thought to buy the genuine pipes. Always love genuine UK models.. yea I know there were all made in Japan and mine is a USA model but hey ho.
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Love the range extending petrol cans - do you have to remove the rear winkers to fill them up?
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[...]
The only difference I can think of off the top of my head that some European countries got was a slightly different airbox, which had a snorkel fitted over the top of the airbox. To suit this snorkel the carbs were changed so it ran with smaller jets, not 100% sure but Germany and maybe Holland comes to mind.
All countries on the European continent, except France, had that air duct and #78 main jets. These carbs had the number 649A stamped in the flange. France, like the other markets, had the 627B carbs with the #100 main jets and no air duct. Many have experimented with removing the air duct and fitting the #100 jets. It brought nothing but extra intake noise. The only reason I've found, is that back then as well as now, Germany had dB tests at idle. In order to comply Honda fit the air duct and the #78 jets. Testers found no change in performance. This model performs the same as others, only with less intake noise at idle. Why that is, we dont know. It's well possible the air duct gives a better flow and less turbulence than the gaze net the other models had.
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Great information Deltarider and Oddjob my carbs are stamped 627B .
Thanks to everyone who has given information.
So what we know so far is:
It was produced May 71 and UK reg Aug 72
It is definatly a K0 but NOT USA spec
Originally meant for the French or Uk (unlikely) markets
Tank stripes are not standard
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Maybe page B 3 gives a clue: https://www.honda4fun.com/dwnload/Part-List/CB500/CB500-K1-K2-Parts-List.pdf
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Very useful list but unfortunately doesn’t help me differentiate between a French or UK bike.
The French frame numbers start 1010713
English numbers are start 101 and the rest is illegible
My number is 1015211
Useful parts list to have though
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It is a UK Bike from the right hand switch gear . Show me a picture of the pilot lights as, these were a different set up in europe ;)
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Didn't the UK get a unique rear mudguard?
B11sey
However I’m not doing this for a profit but to relive some of the memories of the riding we did back in the day.
How far did you get?
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Pilot lights can’t be seen as definitive though Graham, if it is an import then the first thing the dealer needs to do is convert what isn’t standard on the bike to UK spec, as the headlights of those days were handed beam wise they’d change the headlight for one dipping the correct way, change the headlight and you change the pilot light. I agree that the parts book has some errors but not in the country designations for certain parts, only the USA got a different right hand switch as it has extra functions that the rest of the world didn’t need.
From the carb numbers it’s not a German or Dutch model, it could be French or European Direct Sales. What’s interesting is that if you study the frame in the parts book certain countries got different frames, maybe they had an additional bracket or something but what that difference is has never been listed, could it be the VIN plate for instance, UK and certain other countries didn’t get that feature but we all know the USA did.
If I had to guess I’d say logic dictates importing from the closest country if you couldn’t source one in the UK, in that case France is favourite, what makes me wonder though is why if Honda didn’t send any to the UK officially why are numbers allocated to the UK market? It could be as simple as Honda Japan making them to UK spec but HondaUK deciding for some reason not to import them, which makes you wonder why they’d do that. In line 4 cylinder bikes were in demand, the 500 was a new model, only the second 4 cylinder that Honda made so interest in them would have been high, it was also significantly cheaper than the 750, so again a strong selling point yet Honda decided not to import them until the K1 came out. Pressure from the UK government to try and protect the British bike manufacturers? something we haven’t factored in like a dock strike making importing hard?
It could be something as simple as Honda diverting bikes to Europe intended initially for the UK and dealers encouraged to go and import a few in the backs of vans.
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Hi Seabeowner
Longest trip was through France,Spain to Morocco along coast to Marrakesh then to the oasis Ouarzazate and back along edge of the desert to Fez. 2 up the CB handled it all without any problems apart from getting through the crowds that formed in the towns
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The right hand switch on a 500K0 in Holand was different than the UK 500 K0 which did not have the separate on / off in 1971.
Most members have never had a UK 500 K0 and will just go by parts books as they treat them like a bible with no real experience of 1971 500,s in the UK.
As i have already stated that, send your details to Honda UK and they can give you all the correct information on your VIN numbers. ;)
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HondaUK are quite frankly useless. They know nothing and rely on Japan for information, they couldn't even tell me a year of manufacture for a UK 500, just sent my cheque back with sorry no info.
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I have emailed Honda UK (nothing to lose) and will let you know the outcome
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Hi Seabeowner
Longest trip was through France,Spain to Morocco along coast to Marrakesh then to the oasis Ouarzazate and back along edge of the desert to Fez. 2 up the CB handled it all without any problems apart from getting through the crowds that formed in the towns
That's some trip. Packed with incidents no doubt. Never took the 500 overseas, just the Z650, Athens was the furthest I got.
Phil
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When I was 17 and got my first 500-4 I decided to ride to Greece with my mates as we said we were all Greasers so it would be like going home spiritually ;D ;D ;D
Sad that isn't it, we didn't though, no money and jobs meant it was a non starter.
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When I was 17 and got my first 500-4 I decided to ride to Greece with my mates as we said we were all Greasers so it would be like going home spiritually ;D ;D ;D
Sad that isn't it, we didn't though, no money and jobs meant it was a non starter.
When I was 18 (1966) my best friend bought a tidy used Land Rover Safari (ex-Lord Scarsdale) his plan was for 2 galls & 2 or 3 mates to take a trip to Greece sharing food & fuel costs camping en-route for a 6 -8 week jaunt. As I was pretty skint at the time with no real handle on the cost involved I declined the offer. My mate went ahead with the trip but it turned into a bit of a nightmare when it broke down in France then the clutch burnt out in Athens. I opted for a 4 week crewing job on a motor yacht instead no pay but food provided with an allowance when ashore. None of the group got to score with either of the girls. I wasn't much of a risk taker when I was 18.
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These trips seem a bit tame today with reliable adventure bikes, Satnav, more money and the security of a mobile phone signal but back in the day you needed a proper sense of adventure to travel far.
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Looking back I was a daft teenager on two wheels me and my mate would ride out to a couple of local quarries on Sundays as there were not working.
We rode our bikes round the various roads used by the big trucks - the best off roading was an abandoned place near Matlock riding in a storm of dust when it was dry weather.
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Done a load of rides all over europe including the eastern block before the Berlin wall came down and all the way to India on silly small bikes like one of my CD250's. Took a Piaggio typhoon 50cc from Newport pagnell to Thessaloniki on a 3 day trip ;)
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Done a load of rides all over europe including the eastern block before the Berlin wall came down and all the way to India on silly small bikes like one of my CD250's. Took a Piaggio typhoon 50cc from Newport pagnell to Thessaloniki on a 3 day trip ;)
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Now that’s a proper adventure ride
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Got a reply back from HondaUK regarding why they decided not to import the CB500K0 back in the early 70s. As expected they know nothing. They do seem to claim that all UK CB500K0 came from Europe though. Back door imports it looks like.
Dear Mr. Pimlott,
Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
We do not have any information logged within our systems regarding the CB500K0 model. After doing my research, I can see that they have been indeed manufactured for the European market, which means that at a later time people started importing them to the UK.
You can also ask our colleagues from Chiswick Honda. They are our biggest dealership in the UK and they will have more information on the matter.
Contact details for Chiswick are:
02039845888
Should you need assistance with anything else, do not hesitate to contact us back.
Thank you again for contacting Honda UK.
Kind Regards,
Slav Turchev
Honda Customer Service
I may ring Honda Chiswick and see if they have any more info. I seem to recall that was HQ for HondaUK back in the day, Power Road or something like, I seem to recall it being near Kew Gardens which I wanted to go in but my mates weren't so keen as it was a bit of a walk.
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Good memory Ken, yes Power Road Chiswick, about 1/2 mile from Kew main gate, you go directly south across the Thames on Kew Bridge.
Quite a cool place in there, cycle past it often along to Hammersmith Bridge that's currently broken :) once saw Phil Lynott near Kew just walking down the road, also go past Marc Bolan crash site too.
Could make a tour out of that lot ;D
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I may ring Honda Chiswick and see if they have any more info. I seem to recall that was HQ for HondaUK back in the day, Power Road or something like, I seem to recall it being near Kew Gardens which I wanted to go in but my mates weren't so keen as it was a bit of a walk.
Would Roger Etcell be the one to ask. When did he join Honda?
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I may ring Honda Chiswick and see if they have any more info. I seem to recall that was HQ for HondaUK back in the day, Power Road or something like, I seem to recall it being near Kew Gardens which I wanted to go in but my mates weren't so keen as it was a bit of a walk.
Would Roger Etcell be the one to ask. When did he join Honda?
Pretty sure he joined Honda UK around the late 70's early 80's so wouldn't have been with them when the first 500's were imported. Your man would be Ian Catford if he is still around (young guy in the pic)
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Found this link if you've previously not encountered it, click each to reach magazine etc
https://www.cb500fourcollection.com/blog
Some good photos and many collated articles from that time.
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Not sure if I still have it but I have another road test of the 500 that’s not on that list. In fact it’s a magazine of numerous road tests from that era, I’ll see if I can find it.
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Done a bit of fishing Ken and Ian Catford still around and at Honda from 1968 to 1978 so definitely your man at Honda when the 500/4 was first launched.
linkedin.com/in/ian-catford-a54a096a
[attachimg=1]
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Done a bit of fishing Ken and Ian Catford still around and at Honda from 1968 to 1978 so definitely your man at Honda when the 500/4 was first launched.
linkedin.com/in/ian-catford-a54a096a
(Attachment Link)
Well I just managed to send him a connection request without paying a huge monthly subscription to Linkedin's premium service...so we will see if he accepts. Bet he has tons of info about the early 750, 500 and twins. etc..... perhaps he may even be persuaded to join us on here?
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Nice one Ash.
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Nice one Ash.
Bingo ! ..got a reply ..addressed to Cathy as she somehow hijacked my Linkedin account. Anyway asked him a few questions about the CB500 and will keep you posted.
Ian Catford 3:53 PM
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Hi Catherine (Ashley) nice to be in touch
I joined Honda UK in 1969 as the marketing manager
It was a very young company then with cars like the N600 which used an air cooled motorcycle engine!
Nice to see what have the original CB750 KO. I launched this bike and I’m on the cover of of our first brochure ( not suitably dress!)
Let me know what info you want I must be possibly only one of a very few people who were there in those early days.
Regards Ian
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I'd be interested to know why the K0 was not imported and oddly enough why the Jade Green one was never a UK option. I'm betting there was some outside pressure behind the decision, especially when you read those reviews, best bike Honda ever made is one description of the 500, superior to the 750 in handling, price and comfort, why would you not import that kind of product.
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Hi Ken asked him about why 500K0 wasn't imported in any numbers. I guess we didnt get green one as that wasn't a K1 colour.
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I’d have asked him why the 500 wasn’t imported at all, only the press bikes were imported as far as I can make out. It’s a brand new model, the 2nd in line four and HondaUK act like it didn’t exist, something wrong there.
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I’d have asked him why the 500 wasn’t imported at all, only the press bikes were imported as far as I can make out. It’s a brand new model, the 2nd in line four and HondaUK act like it didn’t exist, something wrong there.
Maybe they were worried that it would take sales away from the CB750?
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Had a reply from Honda UK which said the information has to come from Japan and may take up to 6 weeks. I guess this is their std system so waiting with fingers crossed
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Had a reply from Honda UK which said the information has to come from Japan and may take up to 6 weeks. I guess this is their std system so waiting with fingers crossed
That happened to me with my CB250K2 but they eventually came up with the info from Japan. I suspect their service has become a lot better in recent years and until they come up with goods you don't have to pay a penny and still much cheaper than VJMC.
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Had a reply from Honda UK which said the information has to come from Japan and may take up to 6 weeks. I guess this is their std system so waiting with fingers crossed
10 years ago i had to get a dating letter from Honda UK for my first UK 500K0 but, on my second one i have been advised to go through Japan. Looks like Honda UK can not be bothered to put past history on computer's ;)
This is how MCN lost all of its archives and binned thousands of articles when they moved .
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Honda Japan claim a fire destroyed some of their records and as a result there were gaps in the histories of some bikes. Mine was in one of the gaps, so they claim, and they duly returned my cheque and politely said go away. I wasn't accepting that and eventually I got Honda Europe to check for me, they also hit a dead end BUT they managed to find engine/frame numbers both prior and post mine and were able to say roughly when it was manufactured, not a firm date but a month which was close enough. I must they didn't work this out until I pointed it out by referencing some of Bryans records, gave them an frame number just lower than mine and the date made and same for one just after mine. They got the point and gave me a certificate of manufacture, which as it turns out I didn't need as the Government decided to change the qualifying date and thus mine being an L reg qualified without a dating certificate. Typical.
Honda Europe are far more approachable than HondaUk whop quite frankly are useless. If it involves work they run a mile.
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I’d have asked him why the 500 wasn’t imported at all, only the press bikes were imported as far as I can make out. It’s a brand new model, the 2nd in line four and HondaUK act like it didn’t exist, something wrong there.
This is one question I asked him Ken:-
Hi again Ian,
I live in Willerby, Hull, East Yorkshire...so quite a distance from you I suspect ! There is absolutely no rush at all getting information for me. It's just really nice to be in touch, at last, with somebody who was with Honda when a lot of my bikes were launched. From what I understand the CB500/4 used gearbox components similar to the CB250/350K and there was a weakness there, which I think they tried to cover up in the States. The faults were quickly rectified but the USA started selling K0 models in showrooms with the known faults, alongside the K1 and found themselves with a USA law action against them, which lead to a refund being given to some purchasers of the K0. This was the reason I though that maybe the UK stayed clear of the K0 and only introduced the CB500 a year after it's initial launch and only in it's K1 form. There definitely was a UK version of the K0 in the UK (flat handlebars and UK switch-gear etc) but my understanding is that only 4 were officially sold, although quite a number were imported from Europe.
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Might be a fault with your logic there Ash, I’d imagine the gearbox fault on the K0 didn’t come to light immediately and Honda would have covered it up for a short while, so unless the US got the 500 many months before the rest of the world it wouldn’t really have been known about for the UK to have declined importing it, and even if your logic is right why not stop selling in all of Europe until they’d fixed the problem. I’m thinking that it could be the press reviews in the UK that prompted HondaUK to say no, the headlight switch problem was something so dangerous that if someone had been killed as a result then the brand would have suffered so badly they decided not to import until Honda had fixed the problem. Someone imports one from Europe and they can legitimately say not our fault, not a UK spec bike, a get out of jail free card in effect.
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Might be a fault with your logic there Ash, I’d imagine the gearbox fault on the K0 didn’t come to light immediately and Honda would have covered it up for a short while, so unless the US got the 500 many months before the rest of the world it wouldn’t really have been known about for the UK to have declined importing it, and even if your logic is right why not stop selling in all of Europe until they’d fixed the problem. I’m thinking that it could be the press reviews in the UK that prompted HondaUK to say no, the headlight switch problem was something so dangerous that if someone had been killed as a result then the brand would have suffered so badly they decided not to import until Honda had fixed the problem. Someone imports one from Europe and they can legitimately say not our fault, not a UK spec bike, a get out of jail free card in effect.
Maybe, TBH my main reason for contacting him was to ask him about the UK CB750 launch / Brighton PP bike and the BBC programme associated with it. My Cb500K0 is a USA, square crankcase, (green) model anyway so I have no particular interest in the UK 500 bikes. your logic doesn't follow either cos the CB750K0 WAS sold in the UK in significant numbers with the same lighting switch..I think (but had a black kill switch knob)
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Also the UK 750 K1 had the same switch Ash. No complaints or recalls on that one also ;)
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I think the switch problem is greatly overstated. Ran my K0 for 9 yrs (commuting to work in the dark all winter) before layup and I didn’t even know there was a problem until read it on here
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I think the switch problem is greatly overstated. Ran my K0 for 9 yrs (commuting to work in the dark all winter) before layup and I didn’t even know there was a problem until read it on here
Yes I agree. Quite a few other UK Honda's around that period had that 'LpH' switch arrangement as well (SS125 etc)
The K0 needle roller seizing on the mainshaft issue was significant though ... my bearing was well and truly fooked and Graham (Trigger) once showed me a very low mileage K0 countershaft that had been fried by the needle bearing seizing. It's a double-bunched roller type and on mine the alloy carrier cage had disintegrated.
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The K0 needle roller seizing on the mainshaft issue was significant though ... my bearing was well and truly fooked and Graham (Trigger) once showed me a very low mileage K0 countershaft that had been fried by the needle bearing seizing. It's a double-bunched roller type and on mine the alloy carrier cage had disintegrated.
I’ll check mine when I split the cases. Are there any proprietary fixes for the K0 gearbox issues?
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The K0 needle roller seizing on the mainshaft issue was significant though ... my bearing was well and truly fooked and Graham (Trigger) once showed me a very low mileage K0 countershaft that had been fried by the needle bearing seizing. It's a double-bunched roller type and on mine the alloy carrier cage had disintegrated.
I’ll check mine when I split the cases. Are there any proprietary fixes for the K0 gearbox issues?
Yours is a UK / Euro model ... it was probably well sorted out by then. I think the centre shift fork is still prone to wear though so worth checking .. Trigger/Oddjob /Bryan can advise on this better than me.
Here are the Service Bulletins with numbers. from my Dropbox links ... you need service Bulletin #4
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CB500/4 Service Bulletins .. MASSIVE THANKS TO BRYAN JONES FOR COLLECTING THESE AND LOANING FOR ME TO SCAN
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z8s0vpxu8niqva3/AAC1D8GaKGw_tvX0y2-CTcHaa?dl=0
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What year did the 750k1 come out though Ash? Was it before the 500k0? I’d imagine it may have been as the 750 came out in 69 and Honda never seem to hang about with a new version so probably 70?
I recall vividly the press slating the 500 for its switchgear, you remember me saying one was written off whilst being tested, what if that’s why it got written off? The press rider claims it left him with no lights on a dark road, he goes off the road and hits something, this may or may not be true, he could have claimed this was the reason for the crash when in fact he was drunk, doesn’t matter, Honda can’t afford to take the chance, if they know about it and someone else has an off or worse gets killed they are liable and completely exposed. So what does Honda do? It removes the offending switch and fits a separate one for on/off. They wouldn’t do this without a damned good reason, it’s expensive to change the production line, expensive to have a completely new switch made and tbh it did spoil the look of the handlebar layout with something that clearly looked to be an afterthought. Just looked at the parts book for the 750 and the light switch is a 750 part number and to me it looks like it wasn’t introduced till 71, it shows on the K0/1 parts lists but there is no part number shown so it may have been an addition to the book added later, pics of one taken at the time don’t show one fitted. So not only did Honda change the 500 specs it also changed the 750 specs and that switch is changed for the 550 for a completely different one.
The gearbox fault wasn’t really well known about at the time for that to have been the reason, Honda did know early enough to change the later engines to avoid the problem but that’s info they would have kept secret in order to not damage sales or reputation of the brand.
These are all just theories, until we know for certain it’s all conjecture
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Ashimoto
My engine number shows it was made before the gearbox mods so I definatly need to check this
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What year did the 750k1 come out though Ash? Was it before the 500k0? I’d imagine it may have been as the 750 came out in 69 and Honda never seem to hang about with a new version so probably 70?
I recall vividly the press slating the 500 for its switchgear, you remember me saying one was written off whilst being tested, what if that’s why it got written off? The press rider claims it left him with no lights on a dark road, he goes off the road and hits something, this may or may not be true, he could have claimed this was the reason for the crash when in fact he was drunk, doesn’t matter, Honda can’t afford to take the chance, if they know about it and someone else has an off or worse gets killed they are liable and completely exposed. So what does Honda do? It removes the offending switch and fits a separate one for on/off. They wouldn’t do this without a damned good reason, it’s expensive to change the production line, expensive to have a completely new switch made and tbh it did spoil the look of the handlebar layout with something that clearly looked to be an afterthought. Just looked at the parts book for the 750 and the light switch is a 750 part number and to me it looks like it wasn’t introduced till 71, it shows on the K0/1 parts lists but there is no part number shown so it may have been an addition to the book added later, pics of one taken at the time don’t show one fitted. So not only did Honda change the 500 specs it also changed the 750 specs and that switch is changed for the 550 for a completely different one.
The gearbox fault wasn’t really well known about at the time for that to have been the reason, Honda did know early enough to change the later engines to avoid the problem but that’s info they would have kept secret in order to not damage sales or reputation of the brand.
These are all just theories, until we know for certain it’s all conjecture
The 750K1 came out in late 1970 in the US (not sure about UK) so before the 500K0 was introduced .
If you look at the 1st full MCM magazine review of the 750 in June 1970 (attached) you will see that rather than slating the headlamp switch the reviewer was actually in praise of it!
I suppose we will have wait and see if Ian can throw any light on the subject :) . He was the Press release man at Honda at the time and was the rider of the bike that was in the 1st UK brochure. If not, we will just have to keep guessing, as I don't know of anyone else around who was with Honda at the time. Perhaps we were a relatively insignificant market and just not offered the model in sufficient quantities to make it viable to sell here.
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I think we have to take that review in context Ash, they may be praising the switch as it was so much superior to what the British bikes were offering at the time, I seem to recall they had a switch on the headlight bowl which meant you needed to remove a hand off the bars in order to switch them on, plus it was before the 500 reviews came out and as we know it's defect was pointed out then. As you say though, we won't know for sure until someone who was there says the real reason.
I wonder if an enquiry to one of the magazines of the day, like MotorCycle Mechanics or Bike or any that's still going to see if they know. I'd love to know which magazine wrote one off.
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Ashimoto
My engine number shows it was made before the gearbox mods so I definatly need to check this
Here are my pics from the time I stripped mine. I think the oil guides mentioned and modified clutch cover improved the design but the 550 gained a little trochoidal oil pump to lubricate the bearing better. Initially, I thought my counter-shaft was OK but I checked the surface with a microscope and there was weird pattern of crazing/micro-cracking so I replaced it.
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Thanks Ashimoto useful information
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The clutch cover was part of a mod kit incuding neutral rollers, selector drum locator, clutch plates, pusrod and an oil guide. There should be a bulletin in Ashs dropbox or alladins cave
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Thinking about Ken .. quite a few Honda models were not sold here until a year after they were launched for sale in the USA like 400/4 and Black Bomber CB450K0 and of course CB750
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Probably as us was biggest market
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I thought the 750 was a world wide launch in 69, are you saying the US got them in 68? Or that we didn’t get them till 70?
I’d see Hondas logic in selling a bike first in the US, toe in the water, so to speak, does it sell, yes, then sell it everywhere etc but Europe got the K0 in large numbers, as did lots of other markets, the UK must have been seen in comparison as a piddling little sales market compared to them, plus we had requirements the other markets didn’t like headlamps dipping to the other side etc.
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I thought the 750 was a world wide launch in 69, are you saying the US got them in 68? Or that we didn’t get them till 70?
I’d see Hondas logic in selling a bike first in the US, toe in the water, so to speak, does it sell, yes, then sell it everywhere etc but Europe got the K0 in large numbers, as did lots of other markets, the UK must have been seen in comparison as a piddling little sales market compared to them, plus we had requirements the other markets didn’t like headlamps dipping to the other side etc.
Sandcast 750 launched in spring 1969 in the USA etc ... 1st CB750's (diecasts) imported to UK in Jan 1970 but only a small batch of approx. 20 .. so by the time it was sold springtime, in any numbers, it was more or less a year from launch to significant UK sales.
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plus we had requirements the other markets didn’t like headlamps dipping to the other side etc.
Japan, India, Australia, South Africa are all drive on left like us, the right side of the road ;D likely that wouldn't have been a show stopper as native home market bikes would be on that supply too.
Although by all accounts it was USA driven impetus to make a four cylinder anyway, so in all likelihood that was primary target.
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The other 3 I’d expect as they are British colonies but Japan? Never suspected they drove on the left as well, learn something new every day
Ash, sorry but that makes no sense. Now I don’t profess to know much about the 750, don’t like the bike and never will but I do read the posts on this site and the amount of yes it’s a genuine sand cast 750 I have heard said on here means that you’re statement must be wrong, if they didn’t appear till Jan 70 and were die cast where have all those sand cast 750s come from?
According to the web the 750 launched in Jan 69 in the US and April 69 in the UK Ash.
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All retail sales of bike was 1st August ( British snob Reg ) but, a Honda dealer would of had the bikes in stock and one on display up to 4 months before the retail release date.
I had Fireblade's in stock in April 1992 and had two registered at that time. One i kept and the other was sold to my mate Clive Spencer. Sold that bike as the first registered UK Fireblade :o
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As far as i know all the sancast 750's, which were just CB750 came from US as imports.
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plus we had requirements the other markets didn’t like headlamps dipping to the other side etc.
Japan, India, Australia, South Africa are all drive on left like us, the right side of the road ;D likely that wouldn't have been a show stopper as native home market bikes would be on that supply too.
Although by all accounts it was USA driven impetus to make a four cylinder anyway, so in all likelihood that was primary target.
Also counties like Cyprus and nearly all of Africa, Most of the Caribbean and so on drive on the same side as us. ;)
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As far as i know all the sancast 750's, which were just CB750 came from US as imports.
And some sandcasts were French and Japanese ;)
And the Brighton bike was a sand cast so, UK also
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The other 3 I’d expect as they are British colonies but Japan? Never suspected they drove on the left as well, learn something new every day
Ash, sorry but that makes no sense. Now I don’t profess to know much about the 750, don’t like the bike and never will but I do read the posts on this site and the amount of yes it’s a genuine sand cast 750 I have heard said on here means that you’re statement must be wrong, if they didn’t appear till Jan 70 and were die cast where have all those sand cast 750s come from?
According to the web the 750 launched in Jan 69 in the US and April 69 in the UK Ash.
The only sandcasts officially imported by Honda UK were the two Brighton Bikes . Alan Mountain and possibly other imported a sandcast and sold it in his shop but it was not sourced from Honda UK. The 1st official UK CB750 was 1010369 (mine is 1010382) both from the 1st Jan 70 imported batch. The sandcasts you refer too will have all been imported ... probably is the last 20 years.
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Fairly sure I’ve seen 750s which are G reg so pre August 69, which claim to be genuine UK bikes Ash, not that they interest me at all but the links go up on this site and I do tend to read all the posts etc that go up. AFAIK only one of the Brighton bikes still exist, the other was broken? Correct?
What strikes me as odd about this discussion is that if you’re right that only 2 750s were officially imported which were sandcast, which I believe is a misnomer as they were low pressure die cast but looked like a sandcast finish so the name stuck, yet when the same is done on the 500s where only 3 were imported no one seems to think that could have happened and keeps claiming it can’t be true.
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Ken,
If a genuine UK bike had lost its number for whatever reason - perhaps before the 83 amnesty, then good old DVLA would give it a Jan 69 age related vrn. My Blue 400/4 ended up with an M reg due to their ahem, 'system'. Shot themselves in the foot with that one as it became 'Historic' a year earlier than it should have!
Ian
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I do know of a CB750/4 on a G plate. It was imported by DK about 3 years ago and when the chap that bought it registered it at DVLA, they issued a G plate for it. Their logic for issuing a G was that it was registered in USA in 1969 so must have been a 1968 manufacture 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
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G plate would be correct though Julie, H started in Aug 69 so all the early UK 750s should in theory if Ash is correct and they didn't arrive till Jan 70 be on an H plate, however a USA import being registered in Jan 69 would qualify for a G plate.. My point being I've heard or read people claiming they have a G plate 750 and it's not an import but a genuine UK bike, that would mean Honda must have imported some BEFORE Jan 70 in order for that to be true, according to the web they were available in the UK from April 69 in which case they could be on a G plate.
If however the only 2 officially here were the Brighton bikes then they'd most likely be the only genuine UK G plates around. It could be the owners of these supposed genuine G plates are newish owners and aren't aware the bikes were imported in the first place and assume they must be UK sourced. Or of course are either fooling themselves or lying.
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G plate would be correct though Julie, H started in Aug 69 so all the early UK 750s should in theory if Ash is correct and they didn't arrive till Jan 70 be on an H plate, however a USA import being registered in Jan 69 would qualify for a G plate.. My point being I've heard or read people claiming they have a G plate 750 and it's not an import but a genuine UK bike, that would mean Honda must have imported some BEFORE Jan 70 in order for that to be true, according to the web they were available in the UK from April 69 in which case they could be on a G plate.
If however the only 2 officially here were the Brighton bikes then they'd most likely be the only genuine UK G plates around. It could be the owners of these supposed genuine G plates are newish owners and aren't aware the bikes were imported in the first place and assume they must be UK sourced. Or of course are either fooling themselves or lying.
The Gold Brighton bike is H reg, 1st registered September 1969. But, it was obviously in the UK prior to that as it was at the show in April 1969.
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Ken,
If a genuine UK bike had lost its number for whatever reason - perhaps before the 83 amnesty, then good old DVLA would give it a Jan 69 age related vrn. My Blue 400/4 ended up with an M reg due to their ahem, 'system'. Shot themselves in the foot with that one as it became 'Historic' a year earlier than it should have!
Ian
My green 500 they registered as a J reg. Wish it was a K as that would be more realistic in the UK.
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I have had 2 registered as J
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My K0 is a J as well.
V5 says 1st April 1971.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Oddly I think that if the dvla don’t give me my old reg back on my L reg that will also go back to a K as they appear to use the date of manufacture instead of the date of first registration if that’s known.
I hoping they will let me keep my old reg though as I have the V5 just not a V5C and I’ve already had the rear plate made in reverse engraved perspex.
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Yea 'J' would have been correct if the bike had been UK registered in early 1971.
It's interesting that the bike in question on this post pre-dates the factory shift mechanism etc.modifications. I would have thought that if Honda UK only reviewed the bike in early '72, by that time any K0 UK spec bikes imported and specced for UK would have VIN's well beyond that modification. The Service Bulletin was issued in 7/71.
I know that some JDM models had the UK style switch. It's evident at 0:35 in this video. This video was a great find for reference for my 250 JDM. JDM 500's are always identified by the red speed warning light in the top yoke nut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHjTZNq-t5Q
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DVLA have registered my 500k2 as a 'K' reg even though it was a December 72 bike (US title and VJMC evidence was provided) - should have been 'L' reg. My original 500K1 was August 72 and was ABA 953L
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Are you happy with that or if not are you able to challenge that?
It should be an L reg and there’s no excuse why they’ve cocked up like that
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Couldn't be bothered with the hassle Ken -wanted to get out on the bike! Someone on here said that DVLA now register a vehicle as if it was January of the year of manufacture when I mentioned it at the time.