Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => CB500/550 => Topic started by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on July 06, 2023, 10:49:19 AM
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I've looked in my Manual & the Honda one in Alladin's cave plus some service bulletins - can't find a photo of where the plate is bolted to the bearing retainer plate.
Only two bolts so is it the bottom Hex bolt ?- my dismantling photo shows a Hex bolt that has been changed in the distant past.
New part is arriving from DS in about a week.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53026878745_c2b7fb09a1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMNBC6)gear shift levers etc (https://flic.kr/p/2oMNBC6) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Just fitting one to mine and I reckon it goes on the bottom bolt. It has a slot that locates over the protruding casting.
I think when you get it it will become obvious, course Ive been wrong before. :)
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That makes sense.
Before I fastened up the cases all the selector forks on the tumblers worked and all moved nicely.
Just done a first fit of the long gear shaft & the various bits of the mechanism & I can't seem to be able to select a gear as the arm just seems to slide along the tumbler without engaging?
Only way I can get the lever to do anything is when I turn the JIS screw in the centre of the tumbler so the pawl is not in the one side slot then I seem to have some gears but back in the neutral slot it stops doing anything. I did not dismantle the end JIS screw as it was too tight to shift so left it alone.
Must be something basic - just not seeing it at the moment - I'll have a trawl through previous post it feels like something external is out of position.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53026845484_5f6dca7d49_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMNrJC)PXL_20230706_112726564 (https://flic.kr/p/2oMNrJC) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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I can spot a big mistake on that Ted, see if you can see it, that way you'll learn rather than be told what's wrong.
Oh and bottom bolt of the bearing retainer BTW for the guide.
Turn the clutch shaft and use the screw to check for gear engagement. Always do this before putting the engine in, just in case.
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Never seen a silver spring on the arm before, are you sure it is the correct one, they were black from Honda ;)
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Sorry but 2 big mistakes spotted now.
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Never seen a silver spring on the arm before, are you sure it is the correct one, they were black from Honda ;)
It's what was fitted before I dismantled the bike - it does seem to be under more tension than before?
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Spring looks to be the right one to me Ted, maybe it's been cleaned.
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I can spot a big mistake on that Ted, see if you can see it, that way you'll learn rather than be told what's wrong.
Oh and bottom bolt of the bearing retainer BTW for the guide.
Turn the clutch shaft and use the screw to check for gear engagement. Always do this before putting the engine in, just in case.
When I rotate the clutch shaft and rotate the tumbler with the JIS head I'm not sure what is happening aside from some clicking noises as I cant see inside?
I have a horrible feeling it will involve splitting the crank cases again - all the gear shafts & bearings were in position when I started Ken - it seemed to go so smoothly.
It is a different casing - my top photo before dismantling looks like the one below - what has your hyper vision seen Ken?
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Hard to see from that picture but, is the kick start washer behind the circlip ?
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Hard to see from that picture but, is the kick start washer behind the circlip ?
Yes as per the previous photo spring, washer, circlip last.
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Spring looks to be the right one to me Ted, maybe it's been cleaned.
Yes it was cleaned with brake cleaning fluid - just brushed over to remove the oil discolouration.
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Hard to see from that picture but, is the kick start washer behind the circlip ?
Yes as per the previous photo spring, washer, circlip last.
The washer should be after the circlip and between the circlip and the side case ::)
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Hard to see from that picture but, is the kick start washer behind the circlip ?
Yes as per the previous photo spring, washer, circlip last.
The washer should be after the circlip and between the circlip and the side case ::)
Thanks Graham I just put it back as it was - I have moved it but that has made no difference to the gear selection issue atm.
Ken has spotted something but atm it's evading me as to where the problem lies.
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Link page E8 >>> http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb500/service_manual/PL500K0_K1.pdf
As i said it is hard to see from the picture . Easier to pop the gear change lever on and change gear that way ;)
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Link page E8 >>> http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,16659.msg140815.html#msg140815
As i said it is hard to see from the picture . Easier to pop the gear change lever on and change gear that way ;)
I'm confused link only goes to P3 ?
I'll pop the lever on and see what happens - I will be so downhearted if I have to split the cases to fix the issue!
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Link page E8 >>> http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,16659.msg140815.html#msg140815
As i said it is hard to see from the picture . Easier to pop the gear change lever on and change gear that way ;)
I'm confused link only goes to P3 ?
I'll pop the lever on and see what happens - I will be so downhearted if I have to split the cases to fix the issue!
Sorry wrong link, now corrected ;)
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Yes I did re-check the parts manual and the washer goes after the circlip on the kick start as you said.
Someone has previously put it together wrong I just repeated the error.
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Link page E8 >>> http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb500/service_manual/PL500K0_K1.pdf
As i said it is hard to see from the picture . Easier to pop the gear change lever on and change gear that way ;)
Good shout Grahame I have just popped the rear cover in place & fitted the gearshift lever - now it seems to work but can't decide how many gears there feels like one in one direction then four in the other - not easy when trying to turn the shaft at the same time but looking good atm.
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Sorry but 2 big mistakes spotted now.
Okay Grahame has identified the kick start washer being the wrong side of the circlip so that's one issue sorted.
So far I have learnt that you need the gear lever in place for it to work so what is the other big issue?
I will check the manual for washer etc on the mechanism Ken.
I'm waiting for my outer oil guide from DS - wrong type of bolt on the bearing retainer plate - that will be sorted when the oil guide goes in so what have you seen please Maestro Ken ? :-\ :-\ :-\
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Is it the spring Ken that sits on the long gearshift spindle is it the wrong way round - again it's as it was so I'll plead the 5th amendment?
I've also noticed that the bottom wheel on the selector drum (short arm) seems to be very worn on the rivet it moves all over the place I've ordered a replacement from DS there is a bit broken off by the look or it - it's almost oval on the inside.
Did make me wonder about the main rod but they are a whopping £67 from DS US warehouse.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53027182194_36fedcc77f_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oMQaPY)PXL_20230706_143218895 (https://flic.kr/p/2oMQaPY) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
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Are you turning the clutch shaft at the same time Ted? If not and the gears are in funny places it will refuse to engage. The shafts need to be spinning to allow things to line up as they spin.
Washer was the first one I spotted, the other is far more serious and will stop the build altogether if not rectified. Come on Ted, I told you the other day about this and you still got it wrong ;D ;D
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Are you turning the clutch shaft at the same time Ted? If not and the gears are in funny places it will refuse to engage. The shafts need to be spinning to allow things to line up as they spin.
Washer was the first one I spotted, the other is far more serious and will stop the build altogether if not rectified. Come on Ted, I told you the other day about this and you still got it wrong ;D ;D
Yes when I rotate the clutch shaft part it will change through the gears now I have fitted the cover and shift lever.
I know the spacer on the Hub was in place Ken as I was very careful when I inserted the primary drive shaft into position.
Come on Ken you are stressing me rotten. :( :( :(
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Kick start works it rotates the clutch shaft & disengages.
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Does the primary drive bearing need knocking in a tad more?
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No Ted, you've fitted the lower engine hanger spacer on the wrong side of the engine, it looks to be between the clutch side of the engine and it fits on the other side as I said yesterday, between the protruding flange and the casing on the left hand side of the engine. The engine will now be sitting slightly sideways and the top hanger won't fit properly as the engine is out of line. Same for the front hangers, surprised TBH the lower bolts went in at all.
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Sorry but 2 big mistakes spotted now.
Okay Grahame has identified the kick start washer being the wrong side of the circlip so that's one issue sorted.
Sorry but I spotted that Ted, Graham just said what it was I'd spotted.
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Ted, please stop ordering stuff from DS, I have loads of spare parts you can have for free.
Oh and 1 down 4 up is correct for gear change Ted.
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No Ted, you've fitted the lower engine hanger spacer on the wrong side of the engine, it looks to be between the clutch side of the engine and it fits on the other side as I said yesterday, between the protruding flange and the casing on the left hand side of the engine. The engine will now be sitting slightly sideways and the top hanger won't fit properly as the engine is out of line. Same for the front hangers, surprised TBH the lower bolts went in at all.
The parts manual describes the bottom rear collar as item 9 Collar right engine underside,
the top collar item 10 is much larger - that is described as Collar Left engine under - for the top rear engine bolt rear upper.
No way will it fit on the left side - are you testing me again Ken? ;D ;D ;D
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No Ted, not testing, fairly sure it fits on the other side. Would also explain why you're having trouble with the upper hanger bolt not mating up with the hanger bracket.
Admitably it's been a while since I did one of these so maybe someone else can confirm where it goes.
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No Ted, not testing, fairly sure it fits on the other side. Would also explain why you're having trouble with the upper hanger bolt not mating up with the hanger bracket.
Admitably it's been a while since I did one of these so maybe someone else can confirm where it goes.
Item 6 on CSML COLLAR,R.ENG,UN
Not got as far as the upper hangar bolt yet but visually it looks good.
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I seem to recall you saying the upper bracket looked like it needed a 10mm washer fitting between the crankcase and the hanger bracket. That would explain why in that case.
Not disputing what it says in the parts book Ted, just saying IMO it's wrong and should go on the other side. I can certainly recall it fitting where I said it fits, yours just looks wrong IMO. Does the clutch casing foul it?
Does the crankcase on the other side sit completely flush against that flange or has it got a gap on one side?
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No Ted, not testing, fairly sure it fits on the other side. Would also explain why you're having trouble with the upper hanger bolt not mating up with the hanger bracket.
Admitably it's been a while since I did one of these so maybe someone else can confirm where it goes.
Item 6 on CSML COLLAR,R.ENG,UN
Not got as far as the upper hangar bolt yet but visually it looks good.
Is this the spacer you are referring to Ted on the footpeg hanger bolt?
[attachimg=1]
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It has always been on the right side as per parts book :o
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I hate to referee between you & Ken but yes it's as per Julie's photo on the right - no way it would fit on the left without an angle grinder.
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Clearly my recollections are wrong then, which is odd as I would have said it was 100% where I thought it went.
I'll see when I drop the engine in mine, saying that I have some spare cases and my frames handy so I'll give it a bash and see if it lines up. Just doesn't look right to me being there.
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Update my front upper triangular engine mounts lined up perfectly.
PS When I was learning to march back in 1971 it was amazing how many of us did not know our left leg from our right - when the drill pig shouted " by the right quick march" - early drill lessons were very funny a light relief from law lessons😁😁😁
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I'm sat here chuckling at how easy it was to swing your arm the wrong way when setting off from a standstill - then trying to skip a step to get back in formation. Pretty much all of our right markers were ex-forces - they wore a white lanyard.
Any ex-forces members will know that feeling - I look in admiration when our forces do ceremonial displays.
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Ted, how thick/wide is that spacer. I might need one I think ive put it in that elusive safe place and now cant find it.
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Ted, how thick/wide is that spacer. I might need one I think ive put it in that elusive safe place and now cant find it.
My callipers measure it as about 9.9 mm thick OD 28mm ID 12.99mm - Max does them in SS to the right size I have just measured up my old one.
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Ted, how thick/wide is that spacer. I might need one I think ive put it in that elusive safe place and now cant find it.
My callipers measure it as about 9.9 mm thick OD 28mm ID 12.99mm - Max does them in SS to the right size I have just measured up my old one.
Thanks ted
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My callipers measure it as about 9.9 mm thick OD 28mm ID 12.99mm - Max does them in SS to the right size I have just measured up my old one.
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Is there a web page or contact for Max please?
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He responds to PM's he is here as amx1992.